So from now on I will pay the TD for my Open entry fee and ask him not to show me on the players list so that the Masters players wil be tricked into playing open and then show up to right after 2 minutes has been called. Sorry but its still pretty weak when you see 10 players from the open division switch to Masters (at the tournament) just because one guys shows up. LAME!



It's not weak Matt. It is reality. Matt, you're arguing to your own benefit, it just so happens that you also believe that is best for the sport, but you may have a skewed perspective. Few sports, none that I can think of, have gone down the pro pathway in the same fashion we have. The reason is that it makes it very hard to grow the sport. All things considered, we're doing incredibly well, but that's despite the fact that supporting the Pro is not in the best interest of the sport. The only reason it works as well as it does is because most players ignore the fact it's not in their best interests, as do the manufacturers. The PDGA also ignores this, but they've been given a directive by their membership to ignore this so that makes it O.K.

The cache we gain by pretending we are a Pro sport damages our ability to grow and keep players involved. The PDGA mitigates that damage by building divisions and structures that spread the winnings back to lower level players. Basically, the PDGA leadership has been smart enough to recognize what their membership ignores (and has been punished vociferously for that recognition).

So from now on I will pay the TD for my Open entry fee and ask him not to show me on the players list so that the Masters players wil be tricked into playing open and then show up to right after 2 minutes has been called. Sorry but its still pretty weak when you see 10 players from the open division switch to Masters (at the tournament) just because one guys shows up. LAME!



It's not weak Matt. It is reality. Matt, you're arguing to your own benefit, it just so happens that you also believe that is best for the sport, but you may have a skewed perspective. Few sports, none that I can think of, have gone down the pro pathway in the same fashion we have. The reason is that it makes it very hard to grow the sport. All things considered, we're doing incredibly well, but that's despite the fact that supporting the Pro is not in the best interest of the sport. The only reason it works as well as it does is because most players ignore the fact it's not in their best interests, as do the manufacturers. The PDGA also ignores this, but they've been given a directive by their membership to ignore this so that makes it O.K.

The cache we gain by pretending we are a Pro sport damages our ability to grow and keep players involved. The PDGA mitigates that damage by building divisions and structures that spread the winnings back to lower level players. Basically, the PDGA leadership has been smart enough to recognize what their membership ignores (and has been punished vociferously for that recognition).




Actually I'm not arguing for my own benefit I just don't want to see players not come to an area because some of the players decide to play masters while others of the same skill level must play Open. If anything I am arguin this point for the guys that play open and rarely cash because they are "stuck" playing with the guy/guys that the masters where afraid of. If everyone were to play in Open that player would have a better chance of cashing.

Just sucks that some players copout and basically make the tournament less enjoyable for the players who decide to play in Open and are not able to pick and choose thier divisions to increase thier odds. I'm not really blaming the Masters players for this but then again I can't say that i would do the same as they do.

Actually I'm not arguing for my own benefit I just don't want to see players not come to an area because some of the players decide to play masters while others of the same skill level must play Open. If anything I am arguin this point for the guys that play open and rarely cash because they are "stuck" playing with the guy/guys that the masters where afraid of. If everyone were to play in Open that player would have a better chance of cashing.

Just sucks that some players copout and basically make the tournament less enjoyable for the players who decide to play in Open and are not able to pick and choose thier divisions to increase thier odds. I'm not really blaming the Masters players for this but then again I can't say that i would do the same as they do.



But what you are arguing is that those players should make their involvement less enjoyable for the sake of the "lower" ranked Pro players." Why do the lower ranked Pro players have more rights to enjoy themselves than the Masters players? No one forced those players to go Pro.

The problem lies in the fact that our basic model is a gambling one. This issue has been discussed in depth, nonetheless, it is true. A different competition model would eliminate this issue. However, no one wants to change things. Given that, you can bet players will do what it takes to keep their money in their pockets.

Actually I'm not arguing for my own benefit I just don't want to see players not come to an area because some of the players decide to play masters while others of the same skill level must play Open. If anything I am arguin this point for the guys that play open and rarely cash because they are "stuck" playing with the guy/guys that the masters where afraid of. If everyone were to play in Open that player would have a better chance of cashing.

Just sucks that some players copout and basically make the tournament less enjoyable for the players who decide to play in Open and are not able to pick and choose thier divisions to increase thier odds. I'm not really blaming the Masters players for this but then again I can't say that i would do the same as they do.



But what you are arguing is that those players should make their involvement less enjoyable for the sake of the "lower" ranked Pro players." Why do the lower ranked Pro players have more rights to enjoy themselves than the Masters players? No one forced those players to go Pro.

The problem lies in the fact that our basic model is a gambling one. This issue has been discussed in depth, nonetheless, it is true. A different competition model would eliminate this issue. However, no one wants to change things. Given that, you can bet players will do what it takes to keep their money in their pockets.


\

Why would it be less enjoyable for them? Because they have competition? Or is it because all Open players are a-holes? Truthfully, I have never been on more enjoyable cards than the ones in Open. Yes there are a handful of sour grapes but the same can be said for the masters division. Also when there are twice as many masters as Open players why not all play Open? You can still play with the same masters players as well as have good competition. I don't see the reasoning besides wanting "easy money".

I understand this is what a lot of players look for unfortunantly it comes before the challenge of pushing yourself. For this reason I admire the Amatuers who step up to test the open waters knowing that they won't accept cash. My reason is not because they add some cash to the purse but because they challenge themselves knowing that they won't get anything in return but experience.

Masters on the other hand CAN get something in return but they would rather have small field and low payouts at tournaments where they can easily cash in Open. My whole problem is that if all the masters would play open you would basically have a masters division with a few open players and a larger purse with more players cashing BUT they decide not to.

Come on Matt, you can do better than that. You post that it isn't enjoyable for lower ranked Pro players, presumably because they don't finish in the cash, but then turn around and say it should be enjoyable for Masters players just for the sake of playing.

You can't have it both ways; if the Masters players should enjoy the competition, so should the lower ranked Pro players.

Again, people take care of themselves. You might want altruism but you're not going to get it; especially if you expect it from one group, but not another. BTW - I would argue that you've seen more altruism from those Masters players than from the Pro. There's no question that your dad, Larry, Steve D., Neal, Nez, Don, and on and on have made more sacrifice here than the Open Pros have. Don't get me wrong, some Open Pros have made great contributions. But there is no comparison overall!

What i'm saying is that the ones who are hurt most by this situation are players like Bubba who can compete with the Open guys but is usually either barely cashing or not cashing at all but is shooting comparable scores to the Masters. THE MASTERS PLAYERS WOULD NOT BE HURTING THEMSELVES IF THEY PLYED OPEN!!!!!!!! All they would be doing is increasing the division size as well as # of places that are payed out.

Truth be told I kinda want to get rid of MPM at C-tiers because they can compete just as well as anyone else because of the lack of touring players/high level open players that show up to these events.

Ok well I'm off to LOSO but...... I'll be back :D

Come on Matt, you can do better than that. You post that it isn't enjoyable for lower ranked Pro players, presumably because they don't finish in the cash, but then turn around and say it should be enjoyable for Masters players just for the sake of playing.



Lyle, It seems it is you who are missing the point. If the guy with no choice of division (lets ID him, call him a 976 rated MPO 36 years old who has accepted cash) is stuck having to play against 2-3 other guys, while there are 10-12 over 40 rated guys- more than half of which are rated at least as high as he is. How can that guy not feel slighted by the "protection" offered these other players which is not afforded to him? It's not about whether that guy can cash - it's about shooting the same score, on the same day, on the same course, and being rewarded differently for it because of age.

Defending a protectionist system by saying hey that's reality - deal with it, is perhaps the weakest defense I have seen yet. If we are serious about promoting fair and equal competition in our sanctioned events, it means all those who are currently "subsidized" need to grow up and expect to have to shoot well when they go to "compete". And if it's Masters players who run things in TX - then they need to put on their "organizers hat" first before they put on their "easy money" hat. If you are thinking of how YOU are going to benefit first (by running an event) - then you can't very well hang your hat on how much you've done for the sport - and may as well just admit you're in it for yourself and F everyone else.

Matt - you are right on track brotha!!

"If the guy with no choice of division (lets ID him, call him a 976 rated MPO 36 years old who has accepted cash) is stuck having to play against 2-3 other guys, while there are 10-12 over 40 rated guys- more than half of which are rated at least as high as he is"

We don't get this condition up here in Wisconsin. I've never been at a tournament in Wisconsin where half of the Masters are rated at 976 or higher. It's not real world up here, and that is why the argument of 'make the Masters play Open' doesn't make any sense in my world. For a small percentage of Masters (maybe 5% up here) it does. But for 95%, it doesn't wash.

The Standing Rocks Open (late April B Tier) is an example of this. 13 Masters, top rating was 992, next 976, next 970, and then it drops off for the last 10 ranging from 962 to 879. Do you really want to change things in a way that may move the one 992 guy where he belongs but may alienate 10 out of the 13?

Sorry, but at 47 (well, 47 tomorrow) I'm not going to take the 'you need to practice more' argument to justify why I would be willing to throw against people 20 years younger than me that throw 10 times as many rounds as I do per week. I'd get a better feeling donating the $70 to the Salvation Army and playing a couple of casual rounds.

The protectionist system has been in place too long and they're all weaned on it. No matter how right a fair and equal competition in our sanctioned events would be, those with their "easy money" hats on would cry bloody murder if these hats were taken off their heads.

This is always an entertaining discussion, but until there are major sponsors providing outrageous monetary incentives to play Open, nothing will change. Ultimately, this is always just spinning our wheels in the sand.

The protectionist system has been in place too long and they're all weaned on it. No matter how right a fair and equal competition in our sanctioned events would be, those with their "easy money" hats on would cry bloody murder if these hats were taken off their heads.

This is always an entertaining discussion, but until there are major sponsors providing outrageous monetary incentives to play Open, nothing will change. Ultimately, this is always just spinning our wheels in the sand.



Most in Masters haven't enjoyed 'easy money' (remember, only top third or so get paid), so there is no hat that is being worn by the majority of participants in the age protected divisions. As for 'crying bloody murder', I think that the main result of divisional change would be extremely quiet in nature.

We're too small to have major sponsors, but too big to not offer 40 different divisions.

its so funny when Pro Masters rag on me for not playing Pro Masters even while they enjoy the fruits of their own protection.

take a look at who the winners and losers would be if Moody's had combined Open and Masters fields and used a 40% payout:

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<td height=17 width=64 style='height:12.75pt;width:48pt'>overall</td>
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<td width=64 style='width:48pt'>payout rat<span style='display:none'>e</span></td>
<td width=64 style='width:48pt'>fantasy pa<span style='display:none'>yout</span></td>
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a single division</td>
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<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num>1</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>1</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>217</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=23651&amp;year=2007">Coda
Hatfield</a></td>
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<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>28</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G2+H2+I2">172</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="565">$565 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.21</td>
<td align=right x:num x:fmla="=$Q$4*M2">591.15</td>
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<td></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>2040</td>
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<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A2+1">2</td>
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<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>210</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=24341&amp;year=2007">Cale
Leiviska</a></td>
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<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G3+H3+I3">179</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="325">$325 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.14</td>
<td align=right x:num x:fmla="=$Q$4*M3">394.1</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="69.1" x:fmla="=N3-L3">$69 </td>
<td></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>775</td>
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<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A3+1">3</td>
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<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>202</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=19362&amp;year=2007">Michael
Olse</a></td>
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<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G4+H4+I4">185</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="240">$240 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.1</td>
<td align=right x:num x:fmla="=$Q$4*M4">281.5</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="41.5" x:fmla="=N4-L4">$42 </td>
<td></td>
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<td class=xl26><a
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<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G5+H5+I5">185</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="130">$130 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="8.3000000000000004E-2">0.083</td>
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<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=15217&amp;year=2007">Alex
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<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G6+H6+I6">186</td>
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<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="6.8000000000000005E-2">0.068</td>
<td align=right x:num x:fmla="=$Q$4*M6">191.42</td>
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<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=21541&amp;year=2007">Robbie
Bratten</a></td>
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<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=23664&amp;year=2007">David
Hemmeline</a></td>
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<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>984</td>
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<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>28</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G8+H8+I8">190</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="110">$110 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.05</td>
<td align=right x:num x:fmla="=$Q$4*M8">140.75</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="30.75" x:fmla="=N8-L8">$31 </td>
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</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A8+1">8</td>
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<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>165</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=24962&amp;year=2007">Geoff
Bennett</a></td>
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<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>1007</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>62</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>67</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>63</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>30</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G9+H9+I9">192</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="95">$95 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="4.4999999999999998E-2">0.045</td>
<td align=right x:num="126.675" x:fmla="=$Q$4*M9">126.675</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="31.675000000000001" x:fmla="=N9-L9">$32 </td>
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<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A9+1">9</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>9</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>157</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=12196&amp;year=2007">Smokin
joe Torres</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12196</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>990</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>58</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>69</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>30</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G10+H10+I10">193</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="85">$85 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="4.1000000000000002E-2">0.041</td>
<td align=right x:num="115.41500000000001" x:fmla="=$Q$4*M10">115.415</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="30.414999999999999" x:fmla="=N10-L10">$30 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A10+1">10</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>10</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>150</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=23143&amp;year=2007">Jake
Schlagheck</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>23143</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>992</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>62</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>72</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>59</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>33</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G11+H11+I11">193</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="75">$75 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="3.6999999999999998E-2">0.037</td>
<td align=right x:num="104.155" x:fmla="=$Q$4*M11">104.155</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="29.155000000000001" x:fmla="=N11-L11">$29 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A11+1">11</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>1</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>72</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=5521&amp;year=2007">Vinnie
Miller</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5521</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>995</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>62</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>70</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>62</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>30</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G12+H12+I12">194</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="285">$285 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="3.4000000000000002E-2">0.034</td>
<td align=right x:num x:fmla="=$Q$4*M12">95.71</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="-189.29" x:fmla="=N12-L12"><font
color="#FF0000" style='mso-ignore:color'>($189)</font></td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A12+1">12</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>13</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>127</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=21823&amp;year=2007">David
Tomlinson</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>21823</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>975</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>61</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>68</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>34</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G13+H13+I13">195</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="3.1E-2">0.031</td>
<td align=right x:num="87.265000000000001" x:fmla="=$Q$4*M13">87.265</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="87.265000000000001" x:fmla="=N13-L13">$87 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A13+1">13</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>2</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=4206&amp;year=2007">James
Mccaine</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>4206</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>982</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>61</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>72</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>63</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>34</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G14+H14+I14">196</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="200">$200 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="2.9000000000000001E-2">0.029</td>
<td align=right x:num="81.635000000000005" x:fmla="=$Q$4*M14">81.635</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="-118.36499999999999" x:fmla="=N14-L14"><font
color="#FF0000" style='mso-ignore:color'>($118)</font></td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A14+1">14</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>10</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>150</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=23148&amp;year=2007">Mike
Gerads</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>23148</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>990</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>60</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>70</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>67</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>29</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G15+H15+I15">197</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="75">$75 </td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="2.7E-2">0.027</td>
<td align=right x:num="76.004999999999995" x:fmla="=$Q$4*M15">76.005</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="1.0049999999999999" x:fmla="=N15-L15">$1 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A15+1">15</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>135</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=27480&amp;year=2007">Ross
Brandt</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>27480</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>991</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>63</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>69</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>30</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G16+H16+I16">198</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="2.5000000000000001E-2">0.025</td>
<td align=right x:num="70.375" x:fmla="=$Q$4*M16">70.375</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="70.375" x:fmla="=N16-L16">$70 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A16+1">16</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>120</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=15596&amp;year=2007">Michael
Ynfante</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15596</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>958</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>60</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>73</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>65</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>35</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G17+H17+I17">198</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="2.3E-2">0.023</td>
<td align=right x:num="64.745000000000005" x:fmla="=$Q$4*M17">64.745</td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="64.745000000000005" x:fmla="=N17-L17">$65 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A17+1">17</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>112</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=15609&amp;year=2007">Jamie
Callis</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15609</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>979</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>59</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>75</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>65</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G18+H18+I18">199</td>
<td colspan=2 class=xl27 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
<td></td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="0" x:fmla="=N18-L18">$0 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A18+1">18</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>112</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=28051&amp;year=2007">Jeremy
Mount</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>28051</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>968</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>63</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>75</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>61</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G19+H19+I19">199</td>
<td colspan=2 class=xl27 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
<td></td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="0" x:fmla="=N19-L19">$0 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A19+1">19</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>3</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>60</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=9957&amp;year=2007">Jerry
lee Perez sr</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>9957</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>980</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>64</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>71</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>33</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G20+H20+I20">201</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="130">$130 </td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td></td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="-130" x:fmla="=N20-L20"><font
color="#FF0000" style='mso-ignore:color'>($130)</font></td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A20+1">20</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>17</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>97</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=16986&amp;year=2007">Pete
Lopez</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>16986</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>954</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>67</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>73</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>62</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G21+H21+I21">202</td>
<td colspan=2 class=xl27 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
<td></td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="0" x:fmla="=N21-L21">$0 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A21+1">21</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>17</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>97</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=25005&amp;year=2007">Tony
Ganger</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>25005</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>963</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>75</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>61</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G22+H22+I22">202</td>
<td colspan=2 class=xl27 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
<td></td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="0" x:fmla="=N22-L22">$0 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A22+1">22</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>19</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>82</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=10375&amp;year=2007">Joe
Hague iii</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>10375</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>979</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>68</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>73</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>62</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G23+H23+I23">203</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="0" x:fmla="=N23-L23">$0 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A23+1">23</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>4</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>54</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=18342&amp;year=2007">Mark
Stevens</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>18342</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>980</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>62</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>78</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>65</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>31</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G24+H24+I24">205</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="90">$90 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="-90" x:fmla="=N24-L24"><font color="#FF0000"
style='mso-ignore:color'>($90)</font></td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A24+1">24</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>48</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=200&amp;year=2007">Neal
Dambra</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>200</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>961</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>67</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>74</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>65</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>31</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G25+H25+I25">206</td>
<td class=xl28 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num="70">$70 </td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
<td class=xl31 align=right x:num="-70" x:fmla="=N25-L25"><font color="#FF0000"
style='mso-ignore:color'>($70)</font></td>
<td colspan=2 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A25+1">25</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>42</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=9960&amp;year=2007">Weslee
Hale</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>9960</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>949</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>74</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>36</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G26+H26+I26">206</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A26+1">26</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>20</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>75</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=15494&amp;year=2007">Christopher
Albert</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15494</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>968</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>67</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>72</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>68</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G27+H27+I27">207</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A27+1">27</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>20</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>75</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=26757&amp;year=2007">Robert
Gomez</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>26757</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>949</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>67</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>75</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>65</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G28+H28+I28">207</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A28+1">28</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>7</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>36</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=5923&amp;year=2007">Alex
Hughes</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5923</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>978</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>76</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>65</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G29+H29+I29">207</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A29+1">29</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>22</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>60</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=28114&amp;year=2007">Lee
Letts</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>28114</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>950</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>67</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>78</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>63</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G30+H30+I30">208</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A30+1">30</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>8</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>30</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=21772&amp;year=2007">Dale
nine lives Hemmeline</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>21772</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>948</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>63</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>81</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>65</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G31+H31+I31">209</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A31+1">31</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>23</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>52</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=29017&amp;year=2007">Matt
Bond</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>29017</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>968</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>65</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>76</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>69</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G32+H32+I32">210</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A32+1">32</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>9</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>24</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=22165&amp;year=2007">Joe
Torrence</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>22165</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>930</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>69</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>73</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>68</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G33+H33+I33">210</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A33+1">33</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>24</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>45</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=19141&amp;year=2007">Jay
Walsdorf</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>19141</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>937</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>72</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>73</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>66</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G34+H34+I34">211</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A34+1">34</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>24</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>45</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=26322&amp;year=2007">Rob
Lowrie</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>26322</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>954</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>73</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>76</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>62</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G35+H35+I35">211</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A35+1">35</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>26</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>30</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=23569&amp;year=2007">Steven
Hemmeline</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>23569</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>975</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>68</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>80</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>67</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G36+H36+I36">215</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A36+1">36</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>10</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>18</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=15467&amp;year=2007">Jake
Walsdorf</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15467</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>918</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>70</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>79</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>68</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G37+H37+I37">217</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A37+1">37</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>27</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>22</td>
<td class=xl30>Greg Anderson</td>
<td colspan=2 class=xl27 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>67</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>83</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>68</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G38+H38+I38">218</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A38+1">38</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>11</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=15057&amp;year=2007">Richard
l. Lewis</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15057</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>901</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>76</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>84</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>62</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G39+H39+I39">222</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A39+1">39</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>28</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15</td>
<td class=xl30>Michael Anderson</td>
<td colspan=2 class=xl27 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>74</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>87</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>68</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G40+H40+I40">229</td>
<td class=xl27></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A40+1">40</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=16095&amp;year=2007">Mark
a. Smith</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>16095</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>860</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>77</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>86</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>79</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G41+H41+I41">242</td>
<td class=xl24></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
<tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
<td height=17 align=right style='height:12.75pt' x:num x:fmla="=A41+1">41</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>29</td>
<td class=xl25 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0</td>
<td class=xl26><a
href="http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=23087&amp;year=2007">Justin
Ashton</a></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>23087</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>938</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>75</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>79</td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>999</td>
<td class=xl29></td>
<td class=xl27 width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num x:fmla="=G42+H42+I42">1153</td>
<td class=xl24></td>
<td colspan=5 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>
</tr>
</table>

its pretty clear the Masters players are enjoying protection at the expense of true competition

Or Masters are playing in their own tournament with each other's entry.

Not sure what you are trying to show here.

1 Jon Drummond 7350 1000 57 60 -9 117 $400
2 Brian Walli 18720 970 56 67 -3 123 $240
3 Shawn Bolchen 23117 945 54 70 -2 124 $130
4 Eric Drummond 7349 968 58 68 E 126 $80
5 Chris Hartman 24700 968 57 70 +1 127
6 Trygve Schadler 24764 975 57 71 +2 128
6 Timmy Gill 9293 998 55 73 +2 128
8 Jason Holmes 25516 954 57 72 +3 129
9 Brian Donahue 14686 949 61 77 +12 138
10 Pat Hamill 17230 944 65 75 +14 140
Brad Junnila 22944 950 60 999 999
Masters Show Round Ratings
Place Points Name PDGA# Rating Rd 1 Rd 2 To Par Total Prize
1 J. Abbey Millard 17039 956 58 74 +6 132 $120
2 Brad Wendt 2071 951 62 72 +8 134 $60
3 John Dorn 13295 918 59 78 +11 137
Advanced Show Round Ratings
Place Points Name PDGA# Rating Rd 1 Rd 2 To Par Total Prize
1 Matt Schulze 28072 955 57 69 E 126
2 Ian Ashton 25856 943 57 69 E 126
2 Zac Cobus 20165 960 57 69 E 126
4 Steven Yee 26105 917 57 74 +5 131
5 Chad Baringer 12625 869 56 76 +6 132
6 Alan Hansen-Begg 23449 927 61 74 +9 135
7 Ben Douglas 33287 62 74 +10 136
8 Kit Ruesch 26220 874 62 78 +14 140


Hey let's look at Wisconsin where inequity doesn't exist. Here's a recent one w/21 men split into groups of 10, 3, and 8 players (MPO/MPM/MA1) where the worst player in MPM and MA1 is better than or at least as good as the worst player in MPO. Pick an event, any event, anywhere in the country, and the results are not substantially different.

Tim, can you explain again why these 3 groups shouldn't be just one?

Yes.

None of the Masters players would have cashed.

The am ranks are currently way out of skew in Wisconsin (probably elsewhere too) due to a number of players who took advantage of the amnesty program even though they had cashed in open the year before.

The last place 'open' player will go masters in two years I believe. Perhaps this is justification as to why the age should have been kept at 35 instead of why masters should be dropped?

I'm not sure what tournament you are looking at, but this is a very low turnout event (only 3 masters) and thus has a rather statistically insignificant base.

Any more needed?

tim, the column with the red numbers is the column that shows the difference between payout from the divisions that played vs. a "fantasy" single division. the red is largely felt by masters players. it proves that payout favors protection. a conclusion might be that the best competition, and most equitable payout, occurs when divisions are combined.

please remember though that i favor retaining our divisional structure(s) for all but "Competition Track" events. but when it ever becomes time to grow up, it really needs to go Open-only

So your explanation is that because they are over 40 they deserve to be rewarded? And that 1st place MPM at 132 deserved $120 when 6th place MPO at 128 deserves nothing?

So where in your explanation is the part about fair competition?

That's great, but I can't tell who a Masters player is in this vs. who isn't.

If your chart shows that you went from paying 7 out of 20 Masters down to paying 3 out of 20, I'd say you'd be making a mistake by combining. If the bottom half of the masters have ratings under 950, I'd say you are making a mistake by combining the divisions. If you are assuming that participation in Open will increase greatly if either of the two conditions previously described is true, then I would say that you are probably mistaken.

But I can't tell any of this based on your chart. Only that Open players are seeing red when Masters players win some of each other's entry fee.

Open Show Round Ratings
Place Points Name PDGA# Rating Rd 1 Rd 2 Total Prize
1 120 Mike Schwieger 18078 1005 58 54 112 $325
2 112 Keith Warren 13610 1012 60 55 115 $225
3 105 Terry t-dogg Miller 10738 992 57 60 117 $160
4 97 Steve Held 7257 983 59 63 122 $120
5 90 Shane Rose 20611 983 64 59 123 $92
5 90 Mark Luebeck 12670 997 62 61 123 $92
7 75 Chris Heeren 18464 1006 65 59 124 $65
8 67 Fernando Brown 20093 990 62 63 125
9 60 Chris Hartman 24700 968 60 66 126
10 52 Trygve Schadler 24764 975 65 64 129
10 52 Matt Brock 11792 947 65 64 129
12 37 Sean Mcquillan 31475 960 67 63 130
13 30 Pat Blake 21310 972 66 65 131
14 22 Mark Brunner 24064 961 71 64 135
15 15 Shawn Bolchen 23117 945 76 65 141
16 0 Jonny V VanDeurzen 14324 957 79 999 999
Masters Show Round Ratings
Place Points Name PDGA# Rating Rd 1 Rd 2 Total Prize
1 18 John Terlap 7981 978 65 62 127 $151
2 12 Rob Mertins 13516 961 66 66 132
2 12 Don Hunkel 4713 958 64 68 132
Advanced Show Round Ratings
Place Points Name PDGA# Rating Rd 1 Rd 2 Total Prize
1 127 Josh Hamm 20525 934 64 62 126
2 120 Mike Wondra 20610 933 65 63 128
3 112 Scott Reek 12824 943 64 66 130
4 105 Dan Kasten 24377 939 65 68 133
5 97 Monroy Gowens 23413 947 68 67 135
6 90 Jeremy Vils 31205 935 72 64 136
6 90 Dave O'Keefe 22117 932 69 67 136
8 75 Chad Inman 14553 939 70 68 138
9 67 Mike Prue 32562 931 70 70 140
9 67 Dustin Grossbier 30984 899 70 70 140
9 67 Nick Nell 31838 894 69 71 140
12 45 Justin Lamers 29852 921 71 74 145
13 37 Guy Redlin 31624 905 72 74 146
14 30 Kyle Boldon 75 73 148
15 22 Aaron Konichek 32694 908 83 67 150
16 15 Zach Semler 33097 860 79 80 159
17 7 Ryan Kinney 76 97 173

How bout this one Tim.
Put all the men together, pay 50% and ALL the MPM's would have cashed instead of just 1!! Your argument that the same inequity of reward does not exist in WI falls apart when you look at event results from your area. What we are talking about - is happening everywhere.

It is a competition between 40 years or older players that has nothing to do with what was going on in Open. You might as well compare the payouts to what an 18 year old made flipping burgers at the local McDonalds during the time of the tournament. There is no correlation.

If you want to change this, figure out why Open isn't attractive. You will have little to no success with 95% of age protected players if you try and force them into a situation where they don't have a chance of being competitive.

3 Masters, of which included 3 of our higher rated Masters at that, and all of which aren't within 15 throws of the lead in a two round tournament. None of which would have cashed unless you throw ams in with them who aren't cash eligible. You proposing we get rid of the am divisions also?

I hold Standing Rocks as a better example of Masters turnout and what the ratings spread normally is in our area. .

It is a competition between 40 years or older players that has nothing to do with what was going on in Open.



Same day, same course, same scores - this is a separate competition in what way? Are we not all playing the same game at the same time?


You will have little to no success with 95% of age protected players if you try and force them into a situation where they don't have a chance of being competitive.



Oh you mean if they have to play well in order to get a reward - got it - your meaning is plain. The results from your area are equally plain - over 40 players ARE and CAN BE competitive - when placed in a group of MEN - all playing the same course on the same day at the same time.

3 Masters, of which included 3 of our higher rated Masters at that, and all of which aren't within 15 throws of the lead in a two round tournament. None of which would have cashed unless you throw ams in with them who aren't cash eligible. You proposing we get rid of the am divisions also?

I hold Standing Rocks as a better example of Masters turnout and what the ratings spread normally is in our area. .



Oh so it isn't about being able to CASH - it's about being able to WIN. That's sort of our point Tim. And yes as far as I'm concerned - and I have said this many times and in many ways. It's not just the MPM division that is part of the divisional mess in the PDGA, but the MA1 division also.

Pick an event, any event where MPO, MPM, and MA1 all play the same course - and 95% of the scores of the "protected" divisions will fall within the "Open" division scores. To me this highlights a need for a different way to divide players - if at all.

Not looking that close, but perhaps for them (their rating) they did play well. They probably had fun, and they played for each other's cash. They had no more bearing on what was happening in Open than the Women's or Am divisions.

To top it off, 2 out of the three or perhaps all 3, would not have played if the division wasn't offered. Along with that, since you seem to keep lumping Advanced in with you numbers, I would bet 75% of them would not have competed either.

But to prove it all, run Pro only events. Go at it, have fun. The market will show what is sustainable. But to expect the PDGA to force in a solution that the open market currently shows won't sustain more than a handful of special tounaments per year would be pure folly.

Nothing is stopping anyone from dividing the players as they see fit. One division tournaments aren't illegal last I heard.

Its a free country, run what you will. Why would the PDGA want to stop the freedom of TDs in this and tell them they have to run a format that ensures a lower turnout? How does this further the sport?

Sorry, but I'm against 'mid-tier pro socialism' that just tries to force non-pro's money into the hands of 'semi-pros'. ;)

The fact that those are Wisconsin Tour events with specific divisions for earning points toward yearend rewards is part of the reason those players entered the divisions they did. I can't see the Wisconsin Tour saying we will only offer Open Men and Women at our events in 2008.

The fact that those are Wisconsin Tour events with specific divisions for earning points toward yearend rewards is part of the reason those players entered the divisions they did. I can't see the Wisconsin Tour saying we will only offer Open Men and Women at our events in 2008.



convenient - but still a cop out

In any real discussion about the need for, or possibility of change - it takes engagement and exchange of ideas. entrenchment in the status quo fails as engagement.

All of those tours have traditions going way back. Regional players like them, plan their event schedule around them and want to potentially get on the traveling trophy for the future. Most are not after national glory but a goal that's more attainable in their area if they work hard. To stomp that out with a PDGA edict is foolish and not member friendly.

To stomp that out with a PDGA edict is foolish and not member friendly.


C'mon Chuck, you know as well as I do that it's not about the members.

If you're not donating, then you're coppin' out!

I started playing DG when in the summer of 2003 when I was 36, joined the PDGA in the fall and moved to open after 3 events. I have derived more pleasure and have been more competitive in open masters. Masters just seems more relaxed and fun especially when on the top card, although sometimes there is only one card. To quote Carlton Howard, �Masters is the open field for guys with mortgages.�

I would equate the experience to when I started playing in the over 30 club Soccer, which I didn�t start playing until I was 35 when I didn�t have time to devote to the training I needed to keep up with the guys in their early twenties, which had become twice as long as it had been 10 years previous. This, I think, is one of the reasons that playing masters appeals to many of the guys in North Carolina, who don�t have the time to put in to be competitive on a regular basis. Another thing I have noticed about the master players I have played with is that those of them who started in their twenties have a lot more snap than those of us who started in our thirties and that those are the guys that could still be competitive in the open field of the players playing in open masters, although they are still getting out-driven by 30-70 by the top half of the open players in our state, and that for a competitive guy can be disheartening when a guy throwing a roc at 80% and your are throwing a driver at 95%. If someone could help me with my throw/snap and I could get back to a 420� drive with an orc (currently at 370�) I could see myself playing in the open division again for many tournaments.

I for one am happy that there is an open masters division and have noticed that since a few more of us have joined the ranks in North Carolina this year, that more of the other NC masters are playing more events than they used to.

-Sheffy

All of those tours have traditions going way back. Regional players like them, plan their event schedule around them and want to potentially get on the traveling trophy for the future. Most are not after national glory but a goal that's more attainable in their area if they work hard. To stomp that out with a PDGA edict is foolish and not member friendly.



It's interesting - the ebb and flow of this discussion. During which, the actual consideration and development of ideas is abandoned or just ignored - and reverts back to "any change means a total abandonment of what we have".

Changing the competitive system so that MPM and MA1 are no longer totally separate divisions from MPO does not negate the ability to recognize those players in some fashion. Traveling trophies in regional series for those player categories need not be sacrfificed in any way. How those players are rewarded for their scores during competition in relation to the larger group - is what needs changing.

Suggesting that promoting change is somehow a blight on, or offense to the membership is just being obstreperous to avoid the actual discussion.

It's not that the ideas for change aren't worth considering or discussing. It happens all the time on here. However, you may have difficulty making a compelling enough case to persuade those who run these series and the players who play in them that the benefits of this change trump the benefits of the existing structure. It's possible improvements within the existing system are also viable.

This is all really a matter of who holds the leverage (and purse strings). While it is still the players providing the purses, it is the players who will dictate where they play and what tournaments will succeed. Until sponsors are lining up to provide PDGA tournaments (and PDGA tourneys only) the cash, the PDGA does not have the muscle to dictate things.
If the PDGA starts exerting too much influence before that, tournaments will follow the MSDGC lead. Once there's enough money that the PDGA controls, players will follow the money. When that happens, then open players will not be complaining about Masters players "hiding out" as their presence isn't needed to fund the purses.

If the guy with no choice of division (lets ID him, call him a 976 rated MPO 36 years old who has accepted cash) is stuck having to play against 2-3 other guys, while there are 10-12 over 40 rated guys- more than half of which are rated at least as high as he is. How can that guy not feel slighted by the "protection" offered these other players which is not afforded to him?



Huh? The TD is not randomly pulling names out of a hat and offering "protected" MPM eligibility to select players. Craig, your hypothetical 36-year-old, 976-rated MPO player is afforded the same divisional option as the MPM players when he is old enough for such eligibility.

Nothing is prohibiting TD's or organizations from hosting either ratings-based events or "pro open" only events which do not offer a MPM division. RADL's Dogwood Crosstown Classic (2001-2003) is a perfect example of such an initiative. The MSDGC is another success story which has not offered a MPM division yet masters-aged players are competing in the open division (and it's a non-sanctioned event, no less).

Our player base is small, folks. I believe many posters on this discussion board overlook that fact. The player base will grow with time, however, and I believe the availability of age-based divisions will prove to be an asset based upon the exponential growth. Why is it that so many other "main-stream" sports offer multitudes of age-based divisions? It's because of the sheer volume of players within these main-stream sports.

Again, I will post the PDGA Ratings Distribution numbers here. (http://www.pdga.com/competition/ratings/2003RatingsCharts.pdf) I know this is out-dated data, but I am unaware of a more recent chart I can provide for this discussion. If you look at the ratings comparison, there was not an overwhelming number of 1000-rated MPM's in 2003. I'm positive the number of 1000-rated MPM's has increased since this chart was published, but I'm willing to bet the current ratio is similar to four years ago. Now, imagine what this chart will look like in three decades? How about four or five decades? I suspect the the player ratings distribution will be similar, but the increased number of players will dictate the need for not only age-based divisions, but age-based tours (i.e. Masters Tour) as well as qualifying/invitational tournaments. If the PDGA player rating system still exists at that time, I'm sure there will be a national/international tour for that tournament format as well.

The PDGA does not <u>require</u> TD's to offer any particular division or format, yet why do we not see more "open only" events without a masters division? Why do we not see more ratings-based events? I have learned Gangloff runs one or two non-sanctioned, ratings-based events each year (I commend you for that, Craiger :)), but why do not more TD's organize these type of events? Better question....how many of the posters in dissent toward our current division structure have stepped up and organized an event outside the folds of tradition? If you ask me, the buck stops there and not with the relatively few masters-aged players who have acquired the skills to compete for a title within the open division. I applaud those 1000+ rated MPM players as they are an exception to the norm. In fact, I'm looking forward to competing against at least three of them (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=6351) next weekend in Pittsburgh!

Should a 168 lb boxer be protected from a 169 lb boxer? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_weight_classes)

Should a 168 lb boxer be protected from a 169 lb boxer?
YES cause at least in the boxing world there is a weight range ( or can we call it a player weight RATING ) that governs who competes against who .
My question is should a 40 year old boxer be protected from a 38 yr old boxer ? NO they should not if they are of equal ability .
BUT to answer your questions should a 168 lb boxer be protected from a 169 boxer ?? IF that is where the governing body of the sport draws the line THEN YES they should .
IF the PDGA would draw a line in player rating and not be determined by age then IMPO it would be fairer

BUT to answer your questions should a 168 lb boxer be protected from a 169 boxer ?? IF that is where the governing body of the sport draws the line THEN YES they should.


Your statement backs our sport's current age-based divisional structure. Unlike boxing, however, the governing body of our sport allows alternative tournament structures outside of "protecting 40 year olds from 38 year olds". The point I was trying to make was that a 1 lb weight difference in boxing is not going to make a difference between competitors. Skill would be the separator between two such individuals. The way it stands, the WBA recognizes and awards world titles for a difference as little as sixteen ounces.


IF the PDGA would draw a line in player rating and not be determined by age then IMPO it would be fairer


Nothing is prohibiting you (or anyone else) from organizing a ratings-based disc golf tournament. Who knows? Maybe the World Boxing Association will read this thread, realize the inequity of their divisional structure and start matching up competitions based on an individual's record (i.e. player rating) rather than weight class. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

But because our system allows players to move and choose where they play based upon some arbitrary system of AGE instead of ability , the system of fair compitition is out the window .
OUR system prevents bagging at the lower levels by limiting the players who can play in a division by rating but it does not limit it at the highest levels of compitition and that boggles my mind .
At this time it allows pros who are below a certain rating to play am ( WHICH I TOTALLY AGREE WITH ) , but it does not allow ams to play in pro divisions and collect prizes or for that matter as I have said before at C tier events even get CASH cause we all know at B and A tiers those higher rated ams dont stand a bleeping chance in you know where to CASH .
As much as you say I can go do this and go do that , without the ability to stretch the current limits of am and pro there is NO way to get players with like abilities to play in the same compitition other then to run a NON PDGA event .
If there was a way to get ALL players of like capability ( pros , masters , adv ) to play in the same division and be able to go back to their own divisions when it is all over I AM BEING LIMTITED AS A TD TO prove what Craig ,I and others have been saying .
Basically what we have been saying is there is a point at which the ability of players should be the determing factor not some arbitrary age break .

...without the ability to stretch the current limits of am and pro there is NO way to get players with like abilities to play in the same compitition other then to run a NON PDGA event .


I do not understand this statement. It is entirely acceptable within PDGA guidelines for an organization to host a sanctioned event which offers only an "open pro" division and none of the age-based divisions. As I posted previously, Raleigh's "Dogwood Crosstown Classic" was contested without a MPM division for three consecutive years (2001-2003). The event was quite successful, I might add, drawing several top rated masters-aged players into the one pro open division. Amateur players ponied up and competed in the open division as well.


Basically what we have been saying is there is a point at which the ability of players should be the determing factor not some arbitrary age break .



Should a 999 rated player be protected from a 1000 rated player? How about a 969 player protected from a 970 player? No matter where you draw the line, that line could be considered as arbitrary (i.e. "should 40 year olds be protected from 38 year olds").

stretching the limits of am and pro
Let me give you one example
I need the ability to allow am players to MOVE UP and down the scale via the ability they feel at a certain level PDGA EVENT or a certain course
i.e. the way pro masters have the ability to jump up and down based upon some player who plays open or masters who can whip most of them
I also need the ability to make all players of a certain ABILITY to play in the same division

THEREFORE MY IDEAS ARE
I would also advocate not only capping all divisions by rating but also by PDGA EVENT .
I have said this many times before but basically
NT and A tiers - Payout 33-40 % all added cash to open only
if you are 1000 or higher you MUST PLAY OPEN
955 to 999 could play ADVANCED or over ( 40,45,50 ) pro master .
954 to 900 Intermediate or Advanced MAster if over ( 40,45,50 ).
all other am divsions as is
Womens divisions and all other higher age brackets could be as is also .
B tier Lower entry fee then A tiers - 40 - 50 % payout - all added cash to open field
All 980 rated players and above OPEN
925 to 979 Advanced or Pro MASTERS ( if over 40,45,50 )
875 - 924 Intermediate or Adv masters ( if over 40,45,50 )
All other divisions left alone as they are now
C tier events - VERY LOW ENTRY FEE and very flat payout .
NO or very little added cash and only to open field
ALL players 955 and above play open
900-954 Advanced or PRO masters ( if over 40,45,50 )
all other divisions as is
This could also be an area where the AM entry fee is actually higher then the PRO FEE .

With these ideas I could create an area where ALL LIKE PLAYERS PLAY IN THE SAME DIVISION


I never said the cutoffs no matter where it is , is overly fair to some and not to others HOWEVER with my ideas of PDGA Tier levels and divisional protection gives the fairest ideas yet to date .
DO I think it is really fair for a 1 lb protection ?
NO but at least it is , as I have said before , better then AGE protection which allows BAGGIN by the BEST .
What is the point of lets say Kobe Bryant playing in the ABA ( basically a semi pro league )
WHAT is the point of Roger Clemens playing at the AA Trenton Thunder .
Here is another one for you
Remember when George Forman won the heavyweight title at age what 44
Was he hiding out in an OVER 40 division just cause he could ? No cause he was the best of the best at the time and competed at the highest level .
Those are just 3 of the many examples I could come up with but the point of the matter is
THE BEST OF THE BEST SHOULD COMPETE AGAINST THE BEST OF THE BEST .