I am new to discraft and was wondering what people had in there bag and why. My Innova line up was:

CH FIREBIRD
STAR WRAITH
STARFIRE SL
CH TEEBIRD (TB)
KC CHEETAH

I currently own:

Z CRUSH
Z FLICK
Z PREDATOR
FLX SURGE
ESP PULSE
Z XS

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Surge
Pred.
XL
Tracker

I'd match these up as follows:

CH FIREBIRD <--> Z Predator
STAR WRAITH <--> ESP Surge
STARFIRE SL <--> ESP Flash
CH TEEBIRD (TB) <--> Z Tracker

That's fairly close anyway.

I'd match these up as follows:

CH FIREBIRD <--> Z Predator
STAR WRAITH <--> ESP Surge
STARFIRE SL <--> X Avenger
CH TEEBIRD (TB) <--> X Avenger





IMO

Here's your four best Discraft Discs.

Z Avenger
ESP Surge
Z Predator
Z Buzz

#1 Pred
#2 Surge
#3 Flash or XL
#4 Buzzz
#5 apx Swirl

You won't need anything else. :D

Predator
Avenger
Tracker
XL

Z tracker
Z Pred
Z buzz
X Avenger

I think the DGA Rogue might make that list although not technically a Discraft model.

Z Pred All shots that need to finish left
ESP SURGE For added D
Z/ESP Tracker any shot that needs to go straight
XL anhyzer needs


Other then the big 4
Avenger SS - Rollers and super anhyzers
Z Flick- Long 2 finger shots (the wide rim and overstability makes anyone a good "flicker".

roc, teebird, roc, starfire, rhyno

I don't throw much Discraft, but my favorites have always been Predator, XL, Buzz, Rogue and Meteor. I think those are all fun to throw.

Old School Z-pred.
esp surge

I would say that though everyone has different answers to this question, I have yet to see anybody NOT name a Z Preditor. So you now have one of the 4 off the list.

Z predator and a ESP surge baby!!!

Nothing flies like a Teebird

I'm mainly INNOVA but I have a few discraft. I'd say the best discs to use are...

ESP Surge (Distance)
ESP FLX Buzzz (Straight Midrange)
Drone (Headwind Midrange)
Soft Challenger (Putter)
Z Predator (Windy Drives)

I have a DGA Rogue that flies just like my beat Pro Wraith (that I recently lost). Timing is important.

Z XL
Z Storm
Z Flash
Z Predator

That pretty much covers it!

How does the esp tracker compare with the esp SS avenger?

z-pred
Surge/Flash
X-Avenger
Flat Top buzzz
Challenger

I only carry the Flat top Buzzz though.. Can't take me away from my DX teebirds.

-Scott Lewis

The ESP SS is more understable than the ESP Tracker.

ESP Surge
Z Spectra
Z Tracker
Z Pred

Surge (long)
Flick (sidearm)
Flash (anny)
Crush (hyzer)

Z Pred, X avenger, X avenger, Cyclone, Cyclone

Z Flick
Z Pred
Z Crush (preferably 1st or 4th runs)
elite Stratus (got to have a roller disc)

Surge (long)
Flick (sidearm)
Flash (anny)
Crush (hyzer)

Yup, yup, yup, and yup!!! These four are exactly what I throw for exactly those types of shots!

nanook

My mid range is all discraft (buzz wasp comet) but my drivers are all innova (teebird, tl, firebird, wraith). But in order to play at Jim Kenners course here in Michigan you have to throw all discraft, so I have been putting together some comparable discraft drivers for when I play at Kennners course. Here is what I have found works:

Z talon= Kinda inbetween a teebird and a firebird
X tracker= very similar to a TL
Z pred= Feels very different than a firebird but flies quite similar, but I would say the pred is a little longer.
Surge= Same use as a Wraith, just pure distance

But in order to play at Jim Kenners course here in Michigan you have to throw all discraft


What? Innova? GateWAYYY? NO GOLF FOR YOU!

You own the course, you make the rules.

Oh yea. But it is really a good idea, I used to throw all Innova, but after being "forced" to trow Dcraft, I have found great uses for many of their discs. I'm loving the talon for hyzerflips. And TBUT the talon is way more understable than a Tbird, which is a good thing.

Your Talon is wicked understable, but the one I have is almost like a firebird, it must be the cam todd signature or somthing :confused:

I currently drive for distance with a CE Predator...what is comparable in Discraft? Thanks in advance for your advice!

All I have to say is that I think the most controlable and best disctance disc out there is the elite Z Reaper.

I currently drive for distance with a CE Predator...what is comparable in Discraft? Thanks in advance for your advice!



Huh? The Predator is a Discraft disc, and it's made in X, Z, and ESP.

1st run Crush
Rouge
XL
Surge

I currently drive for distance with a CE Predator...what is comparable in Discraft? Thanks in advance for your advice!



Huh? The Predator is a Discraft disc, and it's made in X, Z, and ESP.


This is why I shouldn't do this at work...I meant to say I am using a CE Beast. Is the Predator similar? What other discraft drivers are similar to the Beast. The Beast has worked well for me, but I am getting most of my other discs from discraft.

Thanks for the correction and the future response.

I currently drive for distance with a CE Predator...what is comparable in Discraft? Thanks in advance for your advice!



Huh? The Predator is a Discraft disc, and it's made in X, Z, and ESP.


This is why I shouldn't do this at work...I meant to say I am using a CE Beast. Is the Predator similar? What other discraft drivers are similar to the Beast. The Beast has worked well for me, but I am getting most of my other discs from discraft.

Thanks for the correction and the future response.


SS Avenger

1st run Crush
Rouge
XL
Surge



I haven't thrown the Rouges i have. They seem similar in appearance to the Surge/Wraith. Please tell me how the Surge and Rouge fly for you.

I currently drive for distance with a CE Predator...what is comparable in Discraft? Thanks in advance for your advice!



Huh? The Predator is a Discraft disc, and it's made in X, Z, and ESP.


This is why I shouldn't do this at work...I meant to say I am using a CE Beast. Is the Predator similar? What other discraft drivers are similar to the Beast. The Beast has worked well for me, but I am getting most of my other discs from discraft.

Thanks for the correction and the future response.



SS is a good choice but it might be even less stable than the Beast at high speeds. Really depends on your arm speed/spin ratio. The Wildcat or the Flash might be good choices too if you are looking for something Beastish.

i think the flash is most like a beast. the flash is a touch more stable than an old mold beast, and most flashes are a touch less stable than an ORC.

If its a non retool beast I would say go with a crush, If it is a retool (2X barry stamp) go with a flash

I haven't thrown the Rouges i have. They seem similar in appearance to the Surge/Wraith. Please tell me how the Surge and Rouge fly for you.



I like throwing Surges better. I have to hyzerflip Rogues and throw them higher to get distance.
With a Surge I can throw a nice low shallow 'S' and get fairly good distance.

Anything, you can't go wrong with Discraft!!

Anything, you can't go wrong with Discraft!!



Amen, my brother!

Anything, you can't go wrong with Discraft!!



Amen, my brother!



<font size=3> Can you give me a big hallelujah! </font>

I'll give ya a Hallelujah! :D

But I'm still looking for the best Beast replacement from Discraft as well. So far, for my arm speed and what not, it's looking like a slightly broken in X Avenger is giving me the same flight as a old mold Beast. And as it get's beat a bit more then it gets closer to a retool Beast. Now that's for the hyzer flip type of flight. The overall glide isn't quite like the Beasts though.

The Flash is starting to get there for me. But it just doesn't seem to fit my hands as well so I'm not as consistent with the release. But I'm working on that as well. :D

Tracker, Avenger and Predator are the only driver molds I carry.

The only Discraft driver I carry is the Tracker. I was carrying the Z, but now the ESP has pretty much replaced that. It's by far one of the most comfortable/predictable disc I've thrown and even handles well in moderate headwinds.

What is the closest/best Discraft replacement for a DX teebird?

What is the closest/best Discraft replacement for a DX teebird?



Short answer: nothing. Long answer: a Tracker. I think the ESP is the most overstable and probably closest in flight, but doesn't have the same benefits of wearing quickly. The X is more like it, in that regard, but will fly a little more like a TL.

another option for a teebirdish flight is a broken in X predator. It is alittle faster, but break in to be dead straight similar to how teebirds do.

What I don't understand is why people have to find a disc that is like ______ by _______ company if they are not sponsored... If you have a disc that works for you then throw it. Don't look for something to replace it.

one of the only reasons i accept is if only a certian company is readily avaliable locally.

that or if you are comparing a discontinued, or certian run to another comapny.

What I don't understand is why people have to find a disc that is like ______ by _______ company if they are not sponsored... If you have a disc that works for you then throw it. Don't look for something to replace it.

What seems like an obviously good question, actually has some simple answers. The one already given is that the person simply has easier access to buying from one line of discs. My personal answer is that I order discs in bulk from Discraft since nearly all my other discs are Discraft. It could also be that a person wants to know simply for comparison across manufacturers. Finally, the reason could be that the individual is boycotting Innova due to their use of kitten furs in the polishing of their disc!

Finally, the reason could be that the individual is boycotting Innova due to their use of kitten furs in the polishing of their disc!

lmao
From my experience, the two hardest discs to replace with other molds are the Teebird and the Firebird. The Tracker is a little closer to a TL. One of my friends suggested the other day that a Reaper is roughly equivalent to a Teebird, though I have never thrown a reaper so I can't say myself if that's true

It was a question out of curiosity only.
You would have to pry my dx teebirds from my cold dead hands! :D

the reaper is a great disc to replace with the teebird. I throw reapers and have tried teebirds, and found that the reaper is much better in my opinion. It seems a tad bit more overstable than the teebird. It holds lines very well and always seems to fade back no matter how much it looks like it will just turn over. anyways, those two discs seem somewhat closely related. great distance and control driver. shot my best ever round using just reapers as my distance disc this weekend. shot a -9!

Finally, the reason could be that the individual is boycotting Innova due to their use of kitten furs in the polishing of their disc!

lmao
From my experience, the two hardest discs to replace with other molds are the Teebird and the Firebird. The Tracker is a little closer to a TL. One of my friends suggested the other day that a Reaper is roughly equivalent to a Teebird, though I have never thrown a reaper so I can't say myself if that's true



what makes a firebird un comparable? last time I checked a Pred can do everything (then a thing or two more) that a firebird can.

Z Pred Z Tsunami Z Avenger 1st Run Z Avenger then ESP SS Avenger!!!

Z Flick (head winds, side arms and spikes
Z Crush (utility driver)
Z XL (tunnel shots and tail wind drives)
X Predator (Max D)

I use to throw X2's in place of my teebirds but alas they have been discontinued. :(

FLX Surge for long
1st Run ESP Pulse for headwinds
Beat Z Flash for big tailwinds and rollers
ESP Tracker for shots you can't quite Buzzz

Tracker and Buzzz are my 2 big Tee pad discs. After that, the FLX Surge gets the most action off of the tee. Z XTRA or the Pulse for sidearm shots. I can't get as much D on the XTRA, but man, it ALWAYS finishes right.

Sorry for the thread drift.

I carry 2 X Avengers, X Pred, and FR ESPSurge. My #4 pick would be the Z XL.

I have been having a PM with Discspeed from the PDGA board. We have both been testing distance drivers for the last year, and have found nearly identical results. Here is the gist of my portion of the conversation:

Part One:

I have been throwing a core bag. Wizards, Rocs, Teebirds, and Predator and I do not see this changing. I carry the ESP Predator and it is my overstable driver. There is simply no substitute or equivalent to the Predator out there. I think the ESP Predator is the perfect compromise between the X and Z Predator for stability and glide, and appears not to be wearing at all. There is a little overlap between the Star Teebird and ESP Predator, but I use each slightly differently. I guess if one had to eliminate a disc it would be the Teebird, and I would look for some domy Predators (wouldn�t that be cool??? Predator bottom and TB top?). The Predator is just so consistent, although it lacks the glide of the Teebird. The Teebird can be thrown higher longer with distance where the Predator can be used as a hyser dart and penetrates wind with more speed.

Aside from the base bag, I have been trying all kinds of high speed distance drivers. I have thrown the Wraith (DX, Pro, Star, CFR), Teerex, Orc (Star, DX, and Champ), ESP Surge, Rogue, Star Starfire, Star SL, SOLF, SOLS, Sidewinder, Crush, Inferno, and Pro Starfire.

I think the ESP Surge may be the best total distance/consistent stability very high speed driver out there and here�s why:

1. The ESP plastic, although slicker than Star plastic, does not change significantly over the life of the disc. It simply wears like iron. End of discussion. I think that finding a plastic that does not change over time allows Discraft to make a disc that is �perfect� right out of the box, instead of �planning� for disc wear in the design. This anticipation of wear makes it necessary to make a disc that is a pig out of the box and eventually becomes too flippy to use (see TeeRex and Wraith). This was fine for old school beaded drivers, but frankly, sucks for modern drivers (see TeeRex, Wraith). I much prefer a disc that throws well from the first couple throws, and never really changes much after that.
2. The Surge does have a bead; so as a result, it is more �true stable� than most of the distance drivers out there. The bigger bead Surges will take a pretty significant amount of headwind (if started with heyser) like a �true stable� disc should. A Wraith will do this out of the box, but quickly gets flippy (as does the TeeRex---see new Wraith X and TeeRex X retool). The Surge does not change much over time.
3. The Surge is fast enough and has enough finish glide to be significantly longer than most overstable drivers like a Predator or Star Starfire on a golf line. For most people, these discs are simply too overstable to get maximum glide at the end of the flight.
4. The Surge is right between a Star Starfire and Pro Starfire in stability, but is slightly longer than the Pro Starfire. I think the stability is really close to a BRAND NEW Pro Wraith, which is just enough not to turn over if thrown with hyser (even with wind).
5. The Surge is easier to throw than a Wraith repeatedly. The wing is shorter, and feels closer in length to Pro Starfire (SL). I have to admit, I like the wing length of the Surge better than the Wraith/TeeRex. The longer the wing, the more difficult it is for most people to throw nose down. The wing is like a rudder on a boat, the bigger the rudder, the more water it displaces. In disc terms, this means that small changes in nose angle are more evident on discs with longer wings.
6. Obviously, the grip issue is HUGE with longer wings, also. Unless you have huge hands like Scott Stokely or Coda Hatfield, grip on these new drivers is an issue.
7. In heavy weights the Surge is much more headwind stable than an Orc, Wraith, Pro Starfire, or Teerex (after the TRX experiences any wear at all). If the weight of the Surge is dropped it becomes very similar to the Orc (a 169 ESP Surge acts similar to a 175 Star Orc). So, it can be S curved by someone with lower power easier.
8. The Surge is distance similar to the Pro Starfire and Star/Champion Orc, and slightly shorter than a Wraith/Teerex. Note: my newest baby blue 174 ESP Surge is as long as my best Wraiths (see below).

BTW, on a random basis nothing goes further on a fast line like my Pro Wraiths, but they require very calm conditions for consistency (or you can use a new one and lose distance). The longest ones (the gummies) beat in fast. The shiny ones are better but are not as long. The CFR Wraiths last the longest, I suppose, but I do not dig Champ plastic much.

I used to carry a light Surge and heavy Surge, that was it. Add a Roc and putter and that was my bag.

Part Two, update to myself:

If this DGA Rogue plastic lasts like the ESP plastic (and does not change much over time) there will be no need for a Pro Wraith. I threw the Surge/Rogue distance combo the other day in a round. The Surge was used for hysers and straight to fade finishes, and the Rogue was used for S curves.

The new run domy Surge is straighter than the first run flat Surge, and dare I say, it longer. I threw one straight shot from the �long tees� that was PAST my best stable Pro Wraith�hmmmm. The first run Surge seemed to be more overstable, or maybe I throw better now. I assume the First Run will perform better in the wind. The First Run fades harder, so the new domy Surge is straighter and glides better.

The Rogue flies like a beat Pro Wraith or a very beat CFR Wraith (or a longer Pro Starfire), and is just as long as a Pro Wraith. The Rogue flies a complete S Curve from a little heyser, where the Surge will never really get turned into the anhyser part of an S curve unless forced the do so. The Rogue, thrown smooth with snap from a 20 degree heyser, goes slightly left, banks right and then finishes straight.

I threw one of the best tunnel shots I have ever thrown in my life with the Rogue. I THREADED an S through nearly 400�, and did not have to throw that hard. The Rogue allows some �finesse� with speed. You do not want to force it to get it go.

The Rogue is truly a Surge Super Straight.

If Discraft would drop the Pulse and make a domy Surge �extra stable� (like the new run Surge with a slightly bigger bead�called it a �Surgeator�) they might have the most deadly distance three disc combo out there.

Nice reviews. Thanks.


There is simply no substitute or equivalent to the Predator out there.


<font size=3> Can i get a big HALLELUJAH! </font>

Nice reviews. Thanks.


There is simply no substitute or equivalent to the Predator out there.


<font size=3> Can i get a big HALLELUJAH! </font>



Halleluyah, Praise Jesus, Amen, Halleluyah, Amen...

I picked up a domey lime green ESP Predator last night. Ooh yah!!! Domey Pred, big skippy.

Z-avenger
ESP-avenger
Z-flick
ESP-surge

it is very dissapointing that not many people have said the reaper. :( I think that it is one of the most underrated drivers out there and more people should try it.

whats up with the FLX Surge have not heard anyone say anything about it? Is there a difference in between ESP & ESP/FLX as far as stability?

FOR ME the FLX seems to be a tad more overstable than the ESP.

Heavy Surge / light Surge/ heavy Predator / light predator . . . . . well, I don't carry any other drivers.

The Predator is the best disc that Discraft makes. I know -- some Buzz head will jump in and start pounding his chest . . .. yawn -- it's a midrange -- schtop it. Whichever midrange you throw 18 billion times is going to work . . ..

The biggest surprise about a Predator after a while is how consistent it is. It's such an advantage over most discs.

I only have 2 of the FLX/ESP surges and lots of the ESP's and I don't see much of a difference at all betweeen the 2 flights -- obviously the grip is different but they seem to fly about the same.

My green 174g FLX Surge is the most stable Surge I've thrown period. Its more overstable than any Pulse I've thrown as well. No turnover, ever.

I've recently decided to try out some Discraft discs in place of my Teebirds, Firebirds, SOLS, and SOLF. The Z Predator I have recently picked up is awesome. I have not missed a single birdie without my Firebird (which I've been throwing for 5 years). The Predator's combination of superior glide and faster fade really seem to trump the Firebird for most uses. The only thing that the Firebird does better than a Pred that I can tell so far is the overhand shot, especially thumbers.

Replacing the Teebirds has been much more complicated. The XL is a wonderful disc, but definetely reminds me more of a Leopard/JLS than a Teebird. I don't really like X/pro plastics and it is really difficult to find a disc in ESP or Z that really flies like the Teebird. The Tracker is a whole different animal. It seems faster and considerably more overstable. I do like it so far though. I don't see all the comparisons to the TL since the Tracker is mainly a fly-straight-then-fade, where the TL flies a little understable in the middle of it's path with a gliding fade back to dead straight (this is how a Z Buzz/XL flies for me). So between the XL and Tracker I think I've got my Teebirds covered. Only time will tell for sure.
BTW--are max weight ESP Trackers hard to come by or something? I have pretty darn good resources and the heaviest I've been able to find is 173g.

The SOLS I anticipated having a tough time replacing, but only because I'd never thrown an ESP Avenger SS. This disc is wonderful, perfectly understable out of the box. Its understable turn is slow and completely controlled, and it has enough fade to keep it on the fairway. This disc flies really closely to my seasoned SOLS, something that no other discs made by any company does. Again, unfortunately the heaviest I've come across is 173, and I'd really like one closer to 175g.

The most difficult decision I'm facing right now is for the role of long overstable driver. I want something with the predictability of the Predator, but with a little more carry/less stability for longer or more technical hyzer shots as well as a headwind distance shots. I have tried 2 different 174g Z Avengers, an ESP Avenger, and 2 different Tsunamis (domey and flat). My Z Avengers are completely different plastic blends. One is made of the opaque Z plastic commonly seen in Z Flicks, Talons, and Storms. This disc is nice. It flies fast and straight with a predictable fade. It almost has a tad bit of flip in its flight, and if given anhyzer it holds the angle well. It is definetely my favorite of the Avengers, but unfortunetely it is a factory 2nd and I imagine it would be difficult to find another one like it. My translucent Z Avenger and ESP Avenger fly similar, with the ESP being more overstable. They are both slower than the other Z Avenger and the Tsunamis. They also do not seem to glide real well. If I release them out to the right for a big sweeping hyzer, they seem to drop really fast as they hyzer back. I would like more glide on the fade. Maybe they are just lemons, I would like to hear some feedback from people that throw Avengers. The domey Tsunami is really long for an overstable disc, but I need to throw it some more to form an opinion. The flat Tsunami only flies different from the Predator at the highest speeds, where it is less overstable. Right now it is still deadlocked Tsunami Vs. Avenger. The Tsunami seems more available than the Avenger I like.

So there it is, one long #$*&$! post. Any feedback, especially from the old Discraft pros, would be appreciated.

I would like to try the ESP XL.

I threw my most overstable Surge (new orange, shiny ESP) in around last night. It was balsting10-25 MPH. I was convinced it was going to turn. It never did, I kept missing everything left, because I was using too much hyser (anticipating a turn over).

The Surge, in a heavy weight and the right plastic, is very impressive in the wind, for such a straight, fast, easy to throw driver.

The Surge is the best there is. That reminds me of one time I was playing my home course (Cliff Stevens) backwards, basket to basket with the Champ. On hole 10 we had to throw over the lake and the road, with the road being about 450' away. Both the Champ and the other guy we were playing with hit the road and skipped onto the grass with their Wraiths. I had a singular proud moment and got my Surge all the way across the lake and road in the air. We were each playing Cali style giving ourselves one extra shot per hole. The next hole I used the Surge on I shanked the drive and Ken picked it up for me. He actually gave the disc a good look and feel before tossing it my way. He never looks twice at Discraft discs... :D

I've recently decided to try out some Discraft discs in place of my Teebirds, Firebirds, SOLS, and SOLF. The Z Predator I have recently picked up is awesome. I have not missed a single birdie without my Firebird (which I've been throwing for 5 years). The Predator's combination of superior glide and faster fade really seem to trump the Firebird for most uses. The only thing that the Firebird does better than a Pred that I can tell so far is the overhand shot, especially thumbers.

Replacing the Teebirds has been much more complicated. The XL is a wonderful disc, but definetely reminds me more of a Leopard/JLS than a Teebird. I don't really like X/pro plastics and it is really difficult to find a disc in ESP or Z that really flies like the Teebird. The Tracker is a whole different animal. It seems faster and considerably more overstable. I do like it so far though. I don't see all the comparisons to the TL since the Tracker is mainly a fly-straight-then-fade, where the TL flies a little understable in the middle of it's path with a gliding fade back to dead straight (this is how a Z Buzz/XL flies for me). So between the XL and Tracker I think I've got my Teebirds covered. Only time will tell for sure.
BTW--are max weight ESP Trackers hard to come by or something? I have pretty darn good resources and the heaviest I've been able to find is 173g.

The SOLS I anticipated having a tough time replacing, but only because I'd never thrown an ESP Avenger SS. This disc is wonderful, perfectly understable out of the box. Its understable turn is slow and completely controlled, and it has enough fade to keep it on the fairway. This disc flies really closely to my seasoned SOLS, something that no other discs made by any company does. Again, unfortunately the heaviest I've come across is 173, and I'd really like one closer to 175g.

The most difficult decision I'm facing right now is for the role of long overstable driver. I want something with the predictability of the Predator, but with a little more carry/less stability for longer or more technical hyzer shots as well as a headwind distance shots. I have tried 2 different 174g Z Avengers, an ESP Avenger, and 2 different Tsunamis (domey and flat). My Z Avengers are completely different plastic blends. One is made of the opaque Z plastic commonly seen in Z Flicks, Talons, and Storms. This disc is nice. It flies fast and straight with a predictable fade. It almost has a tad bit of flip in its flight, and if given anhyzer it holds the angle well. It is definetely my favorite of the Avengers, but unfortunetely it is a factory 2nd and I imagine it would be difficult to find another one like it. My translucent Z Avenger and ESP Avenger fly similar, with the ESP being more overstable. They are both slower than the other Z Avenger and the Tsunamis. They also do not seem to glide real well. If I release them out to the right for a big sweeping hyzer, they seem to drop really fast as they hyzer back. I would like more glide on the fade. Maybe they are just lemons, I would like to hear some feedback from people that throw Avengers. The domey Tsunami is really long for an overstable disc, but I need to throw it some more to form an opinion. The flat Tsunami only flies different from the Predator at the highest speeds, where it is less overstable. Right now it is still deadlocked Tsunami Vs. Avenger. The Tsunami seems more available than the Avenger I like.

So there it is, one long #$*&$! post. Any feedback, especially from the old Discraft pros, would be appreciated.



Thanks for the great review! Long live the PREDATOR!

I personally don't see what the Teebird does for people that a Flash, XL, or Surge won't. For me, a new Flash thrown correctly goes for MILES and is very accurate and predictable. I certainly haven't missed any mold from other companies outside of the Roc, but that was fixed once Wasps and Buzzz's came along.

I was reminded last night how sweet the SS Avenger is. I'm thinking of benching the Xpress and replacing it with the SS. What a great turnover, out of the box looooooooooong distance roller!!!!

I've recently decided to try out some Discraft discs in place of my Teebirds, Firebirds, SOLS, and SOLF. The Z Predator I have recently picked up is awesome. I have not missed a single birdie without my Firebird (which I've been throwing for 5 years). The Predator's combination of superior glide and faster fade really seem to trump the Firebird for most uses. The only thing that the Firebird does better than a Pred that I can tell so far is the overhand shot, especially thumbers.

Replacing the Teebirds has been much more complicated. The XL is a wonderful disc, but definetely reminds me more of a Leopard/JLS than a Teebird. I don't really like X/pro plastics and it is really difficult to find a disc in ESP or Z that really flies like the Teebird. The Tracker is a whole different animal. It seems faster and considerably more overstable. I do like it so far though. I don't see all the comparisons to the TL since the Tracker is mainly a fly-straight-then-fade, where the TL flies a little understable in the middle of it's path with a gliding fade back to dead straight (this is how a Z Buzz/XL flies for me). So between the XL and Tracker I think I've got my Teebirds covered. Only time will tell for sure.
BTW--are max weight ESP Trackers hard to come by or something? I have pretty darn good resources and the heaviest I've been able to find is 173g.

The SOLS I anticipated having a tough time replacing, but only because I'd never thrown an ESP Avenger SS. This disc is wonderful, perfectly understable out of the box. Its understable turn is slow and completely controlled, and it has enough fade to keep it on the fairway. This disc flies really closely to my seasoned SOLS, something that no other discs made by any company does. Again, unfortunately the heaviest I've come across is 173, and I'd really like one closer to 175g.

The most difficult decision I'm facing right now is for the role of long overstable driver. I want something with the predictability of the Predator, but with a little more carry/less stability for longer or more technical hyzer shots as well as a headwind distance shots. I have tried 2 different 174g Z Avengers, an ESP Avenger, and 2 different Tsunamis (domey and flat). My Z Avengers are completely different plastic blends. One is made of the opaque Z plastic commonly seen in Z Flicks, Talons, and Storms. This disc is nice. It flies fast and straight with a predictable fade. It almost has a tad bit of flip in its flight, and if given anhyzer it holds the angle well. It is definetely my favorite of the Avengers, but unfortunetely it is a factory 2nd and I imagine it would be difficult to find another one like it. My translucent Z Avenger and ESP Avenger fly similar, with the ESP being more overstable. They are both slower than the other Z Avenger and the Tsunamis. They also do not seem to glide real well. If I release them out to the right for a big sweeping hyzer, they seem to drop really fast as they hyzer back. I would like more glide on the fade. Maybe they are just lemons, I would like to hear some feedback from people that throw Avengers. The domey Tsunami is really long for an overstable disc, but I need to throw it some more to form an opinion. The flat Tsunami only flies different from the Predator at the highest speeds, where it is less overstable. Right now it is still deadlocked Tsunami Vs. Avenger. The Tsunami seems more available than the Avenger I like.

So there it is, one long #$*&$! post. Any feedback, especially from the old Discraft pros, would be appreciated.



Try a lighter weight Z Avenger or just keep working with the Tsunami!!! I myself carry 2 Z Preds 1 New 1 Worked in......1 Z Tsunami.........1 Z Avenger........1 1st Run Z Avenger (which I could replace with a light normal Z) It just seems to fly more straight and get a little more glide.......If I ever run out of 1st Runs ill just swith to a mid 160s Z For this place in my bag!!! Then I carry an ESP SS Avenger for turnover shots and rollers!!!

The great thing about this setup is it ALL THE SAME MOLD!!! This wing just gets a little straighter with every disc untill you get to the SS Avenger!!! So every time you drive the disc in your hand feels EXACTLY the same its just going to have a different flight to it!!!

Thats just my 2 cents.......I hope it helps!!!

I personally don't see what the Teebird does for people that a Flash, XL, or Surge won't. For me, a new Flash thrown correctly goes for MILES and is very accurate and predictable.



Do you know if the Flash is ever going to be made in ESP?

Already is.....here (http://www.sportdiscs.com/catalog/item/1688761/3981323.htm) and here (http://www.sportdiscs.com/catalog/item/1688761/3981329.htm).

And they fly soooooo nice. It just keeps going past the point you think it's going to hyzer out.