The online tour is now up. Thanks to graphics guru Zach Mallard and hostess Patty Justice.

http://www.golfdisc.com/design/rockwall/

I am very excited about this course. It has:

* A gorgeous venue. The park is just plain sweet.

* Big trees, decent hills, and maybe an occasional water hazard.

* Several topnotch holes, including one of my all-time favorite Texas par 5's. The weakest holes out ther are just average -- not a stinker in the bunch (IMHO).

* A great mix of open and tight, including four nice holes cut through the woods.

* Superb support from the parks department. Andy Hesser, who got the two Georgetown courses put in when he was Parks Director there, is making it happen. And making sure it happens right.

* Probably the nicest tee signs I've ever seen.

Please note that we put the tees and baskets in the photos. They're not all finished yet in the real world. We also need to spend another day trimming trees to make it perfect.

This is already one of my top 5 favorite public courses in Texas.

So enjoy the online tour for now, and I should have information soon about the grand opening in March.

And it looks like there may soon be more good news about a couple new world class courses in Texas.

John,

Looks great, and close to home!! Can't wait....thanks!

Ditto what John said - looks great in the photos and anything you design is going to be well balanced between fun and nasty :D

Can't wait John - keep us posted on when we can play this new jewel

That is incredibly awesome news!

John, are there any baskets in the ground yet? Meaning...could I sneak out there after work this week and peep it? :D

Looks awesome! Some of those longer holes look like roller's delights. :cool:


* Several topnotch holes, including one of my all-time favorite Texas par 5's.



Which one, the 824' third hole?

Rusty, I'm waiting to hear from the parks department about the baskets. I've been thinking they're not up, but I could be wrong.

Jeff, I think I'll keep that to myself for now. I'll wait to see if others prefer #3 or #17. Since there's a sidewalk around the lake, we couldn't put any holes near it. So we made an imaginary lake, Winthrop style, on #17. But it's better than Winthrop, 'cause the rope is imaginary, too.

:D

Yeah!!! I can't wait. I played eagle ranch for the first time last week and i've been wanting more Houck holes ever since. thanks John

Thanks, David. I did the best I could with what Eagle Ranch had to offer. I think the best holes there will be on the back 11... some day.

The best holes at Rockwall are already there. I think you'll enjoy it.

I played eagle ranch for the first time last week and i've been wanting more Houck holes ever since.



I second that...Eagle Ranch is so different compared to the other DFW courses...can't wait to see the final layout someday.

Kudos, John!

Wow! What a beautiful park! Congratulations, John. You added yet another one to my list when I go home for a visit. :D

Congrats John!

Great to see a beginner-friendly park type course that incorporates par 4's and 5's at appropriate lengths for the blue and red levels. Courses like this are the new standard.

Given sufficient acreage, it's ideal to bring new players onto new courses playing real golf from the get go. There's no need to have to convince new people that par 4's and 5's are a good thing, because that's golf as they know it.

I think our next big hurdle is to get the budgets to move a bit of dirt around and construct disc golf greens with sufficient texture to make the three-putt an ever-present demon in the back of our minds.

Nice, can't wait to play it. I think I had heard rumors about this park a while ago.

This is already one of my top 5 favorite public courses in Texas.



Inquiring minds must know - what are the other top 4?

I sent Andy an email to see where the progression on the course stood currently and how soon it would be ready for play.

Inquiring minds must know - what are the other top 4?



OK, Redd. I knew I was going to get in trouble when I wrote that...

Let's see. Remember, I said my favorites, not necessarily the ones I consider the best. Those may or may not be the same.

Well, I've always had a real fondness for Victoria. Great park, great course, and lots of good memories. As far as I can tell, that was one of the first courses anywhere to have several par fours and fives. It was at least 3-4 years ahead of Old Settlers.

Speaking of Round Rock (and flat courses), you gotta love Wilco. And the old Old Settlers -- unfortunately, it's not what it used to be.

I also really like Gonzales. A couple weak holes, but lots of sweet ones, and it's a beautiful park in a small town.

The Beast probably needs to be in there -- so much good stuff there. I haven't seen Woodway in years, but I always thought that was a sleeper -- very under-rated course.

The original Rivery was pretty tasty -- I haven't seen it in a long time, either.

I like Kyle a lot. It's not perfect, but it's got a lot to offer.

And remember, we're just talking about public courses. Anyway, I'm probably forgetting one or two -- and there are a lot of Texas courses I've never seen. We're very fortunate to have so much abundance.

I'm pretty sure there'll be some new favorites later this year. Manor will definitely be one... if it ever opens.

Adam, Andy's a very hard-working guy, and he spends a lot of time outside the office. I'm hoping to talk to him tomorrow -- I'll post an update if I talk to him first.

Thanks John for the updates and responses...

don't forget to leave the San Saba courses off that list..though they may not be in the ground anymore, those were some of the best courses I have had the chance to play.

Roadtrip, roadtrip, roadtrip! :D

Looks awesome, especially to a resident of flatonia swampland, USA

I may just have to load up the model T and locate Rockwall with my trusty 2001 rand mcnally road atlas, cash my check at the 7-11, get some beef jerk and a sody pop....

Andy responded this morning that they are hoping to have the grand opening on March 17th. He said the pads are already in and they are hoping to have the baskets in next week and tee signs right after that.

He said there is some more tree trimming he needs to get done out there and is looking forward to seeing some events out there soon.

Maybe we can talk Mace into running an event there for the NTS series.

Maybe we can talk Mace into running an event there for the NTS series.



Better yet, maybe we can talk Houck into reviving the Circular Skies tour! :D

Jerry... I'll get right on it.

JOHN , do you know anything about the new couse in Cedar Park? It is supposed to be near the intersection of Parmer and Brushy Creek?

Cat Hollow?

Cat hollow is off 620 and o'conner..the new course is a couple miles to the west of the Kitty!

JOHN , do you know anything about the new couse in Cedar Park? It is supposed to be near the intersection of Parmer and Brushy Creek?



Efrain, do you mean Wilco?

http://www.pdga.com/course/courses_by_city.php?id=2593

Great course. Could it be the best dead-flat course in... Texas?... the South?...

John, I am referring to a new course that has been proposed by the city of cedar park near the intersection of Parmer and Brushy creek. I found out about this about 2 weeks ago while reading a cedar park community periodical.

Wow! Dirk and I played then new course yesterday and had a great time. The course is absolutely beautiful and really pulls out all of the shots in your bag. Tee pads and poles were in. Looks like baskets are just about to be put on. All the old timers we talked to in the park were really excited about it and had a lot of fun watching us throw.

Putting at poles without baskets is tough....I shot +11.

One point, this park looks like it will get pretty crowded with regular park visitors in the summer so you better be ready to be a disc golf ambassador and bring your laid back attitude.

Dirk called me last night just to tell me about the new course. He has been contacted by John to see about getting something started out there. He is looking for local players.

He also gave the course rave reviews but said it might causes problems once summer comes up.

Dirk called me last night just to tell me about the new course. He has been contacted by John to see about getting something started out there. He is looking for local players.




Is he looking for local players for a work day, or is this to get a league or tourney started? Either way, I'm interested. I'll only be in Dallas for a few more months, but I'd love to take part in helping out a new course.

Don't remember, I have slept sence then.

Dieter and Josh R. are heading out there today to play. Maybe we will have baskets by now???

Ray and I are planning on Saturday early.

Mike Olse and I made a quick trip to Rockwall yesterday to trim trees and finalize a few details. As always, the city's Parks Manager, Andy Hesser, was on top of everything.

As of tomorrow, the last tees will be poured. Right now there are just poles, not baskets. No tee signs yet. If you go out there, BRING A MAP. It's up at

http://www.golfdisc.com/design/rockwall/

We ran into local legends Scott Cook and Jay Bitner yesterday. They were mapless, which is not the ideal way to find holes that have no baskets, numbers, or signs. Hope you guys had fun anyway. The course is looking fantastic.

Andy's plan is for the course to be fully playable March 17th. Grand opening soon thereafter. Thanks to everyone for their support of this new Texas jewel.

http://www.golfdisc.com/design/rockwall/images/OverviewLarge.gif

I was hoping to make it out there this Saturday. If not, I am going to make an effort to make it out on the 17th. After the 17th, I don't know when I will ever get to play again. (BTW, I am taking applications for a manager :D)

AW Man!!! Cant wait to play. I've been missing the Houck love.

Hey John, a bunch of us from Arlington plan on coming out on the 17th. Any chance we will see you?

Hey John, a bunch of us from Arlington plan on coming out on the 17th. Any chance we will see you?



Sorry, no chance that weekend. Maybe when they finally have the official grand opening... but I've got a busy April, including the opening of the IDGC in Augusta, and my wedding...

But you Arlingtonians have a good time.

please post if the baskets are out there when y'all play tomorrow.

thanks.

Congradulations...!

ce

congratulations John

Pizza, if you are heading out there early, give me a call when you are on the way. If you are coming from 30, the 205 exit is closed, use 740.

sprinkler guy still has not shown up. can't do it today.

Well maybe the baskets will be in next Saturday.

All of the tees are set, most of the Tee sign posts, and all of the sleeves and poles for the baskets.

The OB on 17 isn't marked at all yet. Take a copy the map and the pictures from the tees. It helps.

It was a fun course. We'll see how it wears in.

A few got to have 2's, a few hope to make 2s, many where 3 will take a couple of good shots, and a few where you will be happy to take a 4.

You know us guys from San Marcos can't find a course! Can anyone give me directions to this course? I have always enjoyed John's designs and cannot wait to play another one even if it is just poles. Let me know something. Thanks.

Baskets in yet?

I got an e-mail from a player that the baskets are in. I have not confirmed with the PARD.

(Thanks, Luca.)

rockwall is outside dallas

With these great rains we are getting today it will be a good test to see how water affects the course out there..

Looking forward to the Grand Opening this weekend

I was going to play sometime out there on Saturday. Is there something fomal going on?

I was going to play sometime out there on Saturday. Is there something fomal going on?



Not yet..just the grand opening if that is still Andy's plan..I will check with him again tomorrow, but what about a mini PIZZA for more teepads in Carrollton ( put you on the spot )...I am sure you have the plastic to take care of the AM's and Pro have their wallets..

I could even help you out since my ankle probably isn't ready for a Houck Hike yet

I am interested in how the rain effects 6 and 9.

so is this weekend, march 17th, the grand opening or not?
or is that yet to be determined? thanks....

so is this weekend, march 17th, the grand opening or not?
or is that yet to be determined? thanks....



that is the original plan I heard...baskets are in the ground......GO this Sat...

Hey John, a bunch of us from Arlington plan on coming out on the 17th. Any chance we will see you?



Sorry, no chance that weekend. Maybe when they finally have the official grand opening... but I've got a busy April, including the opening of the IDGC in Augusta, and my wedding...


So, it looks like the 17th is not the grand opening. It is, however, going to be very very crowded :)

congrats on the wedding!

So, is anybody going to organize anything for Saturday ?

Thanks, Laura, and everyone else.

If someone is going to organize something out there, please save the scorecards -- I am very eager to see that data.

I nominate Pizza to organize it, although I'm sure he'd like to play :). I'll help out and Adam said he's willing to help. I'm sure lots of local golfers would play if we did put something together.

Phil and I will be there early Sunday if any wants to join up.

I might join you... y'all gonna come to McKinney tonight, see if we can put together a mini?

Not me. Ill be hanging out with the kid

Just to clarify a few points.

The Parks Department's goal was to have the course playable by this Saturday. That doesn't mean it will be finished. They're still planting trees, marking the OB on #17, lowering the gas sign on #11, etc. I'm not even sure if all the tee signs are up yet -- some of them need to be fixed (some distances are wrong).

Also, no one should schedule an event out there without getting approval. Andy Hesser is the man to talk to.

They have still not scheduled an official grand opening, as far as I know.

Looks a lot more like a casual Saturday out there this weekend John..I know that today 4 or 5 players were out there and enjoyed every minute..They shot 10 and 13 if playing all 3's or Par and +3 I believe.

Sound greats...I cant' wait to check it out

lowering the gas sign on #11


I'm just dying to know wtf this means :D

lowering the gas sign on #11


I'm just dying to know wtf this means :D



Ha! I was thinking the same thing

I thought it made a great head game obstacle right where it was. :cool:

There's a gas line near the tee on #11.

The yellow sign marking the line is right about where you might want to throw your drive. They can't take it out completely, but they will lower it.

how very disappointing ;)

The OMB vs. YGB club will be at this new course tomorrow, Sat the 17th for some casual draw doubles starting around 10:00am. Most of us will probably play a second round from the other set of teepads in the afternoon. If you know us and want to join, bring it on. We always enjoy meeting new players and talking some smack during some fun rounds. See y'all at Rockwall! :)

I'm pretty sure I'll be able to make it for this one. I need to get my doubles partner there so we can practice.

BBD, today is the 16th :o

I will be out there around noon I hope. I want to play both sets of tee pads. Will prolly play 2 shots on each hole. I still have to work tomorrow night.

I have no idea what you're talking about :D

Duke, are you talking about Frank? Are we gonne see the Double D's in action once again? holy crap... see y'all tomorrow.

No, it's Gary Squared this year.

went other there today...very impressed. some amazing holes and the only problem i had was there were already flow issues with people crossing fairways, but that should hopefully improve with more trails getting made here and there.

we have a group going out there tomorrow...i'll be there again if i'm not still sick.

No, it's Gary Squared this year.



McDaniel?

Yes.

I've always wanted to play World Doubles with him as a partner. He's one of the group that I started playing Disc Golf with.

It would be really cool if someone could put a sign-up sheet at the first tee early in the morning just to give the Parks people an idea of how many players go through the course this weekend.

Not sure that I will be there but if you make 10am tell one of the guys and I am sure they have a sheet of paper in the car

I really want to shoot at least the shorts but I am not sure the ankle is ready for the hike...

Krell, Todd, and Billy are leaving here at 9am..I know Justin, Josh, Parker and Tabor will be out there..Brian Cox said he would be out there also

What is this John???? Is this now Alex Clark when you started it??


Wilson Creek Park (10) McKinney, TX

yes, alex clark memorial used to be called wilson creek park when it was only 10 holes. Then I'm sure you know the story from there.

As for the rockwall course... awesome. I'm not sure I 100% agree with the par method used, but that's a wholly separate issue which in no way affects the way the course plays :). One suggestion: some informational signage. I saw several groups today with basic frisbees (not golf discs) who apparently spent a lot of time at the park before DG arrived, and were excited to figure out this new sport. A rules / etiquitte sign and maybe some other informational signs like a course map or something would all go to good use.

#2 blue, #3 blue/red, #9 blue, and #10 blue/red are amazingly well done holes IMO. #1 is very interesting and IMO a great way to start the course, and I like the shot variation on almost all of the red vs. blue tees. There are several which are very good, and a few that are average par 3 DG holes.

#17 is the only one that I didn't really like, but I think it could get better as those trees mature. From the red it was just a really long hole and from the blue it got a little longer and a lot more challenging... but I just thought the space could have been used better. Maybe put a basket in the cedars left of the fairway for #17 and then a teebox coming out of there for #18. move 17's current basket down towards the water (this may or may not be kosher with the parks dept., I dunno) and make it #18's basket. A long, downhill bomb with OB somewhat in play to finish the course rather than a simple rhbh hyzer shot...

Anyway, overall the course is certainly world-class and I'm sure will see a ton of play. It is right up there with Z-boaz and Audubon in my book as some of the best 18-hole golf in north texas. Well done to all those involved!

By the way... I never saw that gas sign. I either didn't know where to look, or they did a great job lowering it :) We'll be back in the morning, I'll have to keep my eye out for it again

I played it yesterday.There are 4 crossing flow issues in the first 9 holes that will be a debackle with any event.4 holes are in a swamp and with any rain will be unplayable.The par was ok on most all of the holes.60% of the holes you cannot see a basket.Not the best design with the space given.Hole 17 is 75 ft from being awsome there is a perfect 60 ft circle with water on the right trees long and left.Hole 17 should be 18.I am happy to see us playing golf with ligit par 4s and 5s.The tees were all the same size and done well.This coures was fun the underbrush tore my legs up and got stuck with a thorn tree in my hand.More signage to know where you are going.I was in town to meet with city of ft worth.I hope to be back in 2 months to install a new par 72 with carts and beer!!!!!Play on players.. ;)

Yea, noticed the basket to next hole crossing fairways thing too.

Better than the coures I played years ago in Arkansas that had X fairways.

I was unable to make it out there yesterday. :(

However, my sprinkler system is now working (well 4 out of 5 zones) He is comming back next weekend to fix that zone and replace several sprinkler heads.

I will get to play disc golf tomorrow. Temps in the 80's :)

Sunset Park for sure, maybe one other if I have time. (or am not tired out from lack of sleep)

Then on to see LOVE tomorrow night. :D

Well, I got to play Rockwall today... The only problem I could find is that it stopped after the 18th hole. IMO it blows every DFW course away.

That course, especially #3 is the pinnacle of all that I have played,, Too bad that I got my Arse whipped by 10 strokes over two rounds of long and shorts. Mr Brown.. your eye will sting next round :D

The course is better than waco

Well, I got to play Rockwall today... The only problem I could find is that it stopped after the 18th hole. IMO it blows every DFW course away.



It is a great couse, but I wouldn't agree with that..DFW..???

I've played 4 rounds so far out there and I really like the course. We had a team pull a 46 from the shorts today in doubles and I believe that will be a good score for Advanced and new Pro's. The longs I believe the best was around 52 in doubles I believe. In singles around 59 seemed to be a good score. We really do need a bridge for hole 6 to avoid people walking down 7's fairway. The cross over walking to hole 9 is somewhat of a problem, but most should be ok. The people on 9's tee box may have some incoming with people trying to cut through the trees from 3's tee box. Another bridge would be nice on 9 also. Played out there the day after it rained last week and it was still playable, but a little muddy. Two problems I've ran into so far. The fence line that runs along 13's basket is not marked OB on the tee sign, but it is the same fence that is marked OB for 12. Is this fence OB along 13? The second is the arguing on what is OB on 17. I hope as the course gets worked on, the OB line will become defined. An undefined OB line is a good concept, but frustrating for the players. I'm really just looking for an answer on hole 13, but wanted to give my opinions. Fantastic park.

Hole 9 from the long is the best hole on the course with hole 3 being a close 2nd.

There is one more expert that hasn't filed his opinion on this new facility. He knows more than us all so lets wait to hear from the real course expert.

There is one more expert that hasn't filed his opinion on this new facility. He knows more than us all so lets wait to hear from the real course expert.



I'll get right on it Mace. :D

Not the best design with the space given.



While I'm sure some minor tweaks could be easily made for flow issues if warranted, you will no doubt find hundreds of people who disagree with this statement. Any course designed by John Houck will likely be close to the best design for the space given. Have you not read his course design articles in DGWN and the "Houck Diaries" thread? Have you not played Wimberely or any of his other designs?

Reese, you only wish you were one tenth the course designer Houck is. http://www.panthersplanet.net/style_emoticons/default/thumbsdown.gif

All people initially have to judge a design by is what they see and play. However, it's hard to make remarks regarding design problems or potential improvements without talking with the designer. Most of the time, there are reasons something was done or not done in a public course design because of restraints imposed by the Park Dept. In addition, there may be items planned but not yet completed such as the suggestions on bridges.

Finally got to play my first round yesterday...FANTASTIC! Parts of it reminded me of Circle R...just scaled down a bit. Great job John! #3 is especially fun. Once the few flow issues have been tackled, this course will complete the Holy Trinity of Dallas-area disc golf (along with Zboaz and Cedar Hill). :D

Two big thumbs up!

rusty, i agree, but i would put audobon up there too and make it a holy quaternity or whatever you would call the top 4.

top 5 DFW now for me is

rockwall
cedar hill
z boaz
veterans
audobon

too bad the wife was sick on saturday or else i would've played it again. should be out there on thursday afternoon if anyone wants to play around 4pm.

ps anyone else notice the ultracool star wars type noises that the power lines make in the wind? i need to bring my microphones out there and sample that.

rusty, i agree, but i would put audobon up there too and make it a holy quaternity or whatever you would call the top 4.



Man! If only I knew "quaternity" was a real word :D

Based solely on design, I would place The Bon and Cedar Hill on the same level...its just the nice baskets and concrete tees that helped Lester Lorch find its spot in my top 3. Audubon will always have a special place in my heart...its where I learned the game...

Hole by Hole, one of the better courses around DFW. Good shots are rewarded, bad shots are punished. No 'three-from-anywhere" holes. All of the holes that were close to "TFA" were holes that could be birdied with a good drive.

I do think the course has some flow problems, but that is not important unless you are playing in a full field event.

It is a great warm up course for Circle-R, and an excellent option for a home course. If you can can consistently score well here, you can score well anywhere.

rusty, i agree, but i would put audobon up there too and make it a holy quaternity or whatever you would call the top 4.



Man! If only I knew "quaternity" was a real word :D

Based solely on design, I would place The Bon and Cedar Hill on the same level...its just the nice baskets and concrete tees that helped Lester Lorch find its spot in my top 3. Audubon will always have a special place in my heart...its where I learned the game...



I think Cedar Hill earned a spot, but the course as it plays now is not the course that was an instant success. They are working to make it tougher again, but it relied heavily on the tight fairways and thick schule. As the fairways widened and the schule cleared out, it became less of a challenge and more of a walk in the park.

Great actors make bad movies also.When you play it you can make your comments.I thought my comments were honest and accurate ;) ;).

Great actors make bad movies also.



When the script is edited by the Park Dept...

60% of the holes you cannot see a basket.



Perfect! I wish every course had nearly 60% of the holes where you could not see the basket from the tee. That means these courses would likely have multiple 90 degree doglegs, narrow landing zones where accuracy, not distance, is more important, and drives that actually require a turning shot instead of a straight one.

Reese, you may be the only disc golfer in the world who prefers a course that is predominantly 1100-foot wide open holes with the basket straight in front of the tee.

agreed... that is something I never understood about dg-on-bg courses. There's little opportunity for anything but wide-open field play. Where's the fun in that?

Anyway, rockwall does a nice job of combining placement/accuracy shots with a little bit of distance. Almost every hole on the course rewards accuracy. Many of them (especially from the long tees) reward accuracy *and* distance at the same time. There aren't any holes except maybe for #17 that will play well for someone who throws a long bomb without being able to control it.

We had a club member land from within 30 feet of hole #2 (from the red box - and he hit the putt) by throwing a huge s-ball over the top of the trees. That is probably the only way to get the 2 (eagle) on this hole, at least with the current course conditions. A really dry winter day might make it reachable with a long hyzer skip.... but I digress. The point is that there are definitely shots for the big arm, but you have to place these shots very well.

anyway, congrats again mr houck on another well-done course.

agreed... that is something I never understood about dg-on-bg courses. There's little opportunity for anything but wide-open field play. Where's the fun in that?




LOL. If you ever have the chance play The Red Hawk course(home of the Players Cup) in Crystal River, FL(west coast N of tampa.) do so!!! Then come on here and tell me what a bad time you had. If you had a bad time then it was b/c the course was too tough. :DIt's all about design. A bad design on any piece of land is just that, a bad design....no matter what the contour of the land is.

Looking forward to seeing this Houck design b/c i've never played a bad Houck design.

Going to agree with John on that one Josh - Twisted Acres was a very challenging disc/stick golf course with only 9 holes. Water hazards all over the course and trees came into play a lot on that course. 3 different sets of tees also.

Going to agree with John on that one Josh - Twisted Acres was a very challenging disc/stick golf course with only 9 holes. Water hazards all over the course and trees came into play a lot on that course. 3 different sets of tees also.



So theres just the ONE then....right? 1 out of 300,000 means bg courses suck for dg.

300,000 BG courses that have DG courses on them also?? :confused:

It all depends on the land, the designer and the flow

speaking of which, I have some worries about hole #5 and #7 causing some problems out there...a shot just 1/2 way down the fairway on #5 could get someone nailed by an upshot that is shooting on #7. I don't even see planting any trees as possible or helpful in that area though.

You shouldn't be stopping halfway down a 200' hole ?

You "shouldn't be", but we all know it will happen and already did a few times on Saturday...if you hit the top tree line from the pad you drop pretty close to #7's basket.

BEAUTIFUL course. Great design!! People can always pick at others creations, but I think it is SWEET!!! I can't wait to play it again. PROPS to John H.

Too bad that I got my Arse whipped by 10 strokes over two rounds of long and shorts. Mr Brown.. your eye will sting next round :D



If anyone is interested in seeing Phil cry. Be at Rockwall around 8am tomorrow.

It will be much more entertaining to watch Mike eat his words.

8am.... a little early for me, but if you guys are playing a second round I might join up to see phil gloat over his morning victory... or sulk over his morning defeat. Of course, if I do make it at 8:00 you can both cry in your cornflakes over losing to me :D

could someone clarify exactly which trees define the OB area on #17, especially after the turn near the red tee? it is obvious along the line from the blue to red tee, but after the OB line turns to the right it is very ambiguous, particularly when you get down the path a ways near the basket and lake..ran into this problem out there yesterday. i took a double circle 9 from the blue. joy.

it would be very helpful to get some sort of ribbon or paint on the trees or maybe a wooden stake like the one marking where new trees are going to be transplanted.

i still love the course...but that hole is my new nemesis. :)

Of course, if I do make it at 8:00 you can both cry in your cornflakes over losing to me :D



I'll bring the cornflakes and you can eat those with your words as well. :D

could someone clarify exactly which trees define the OB area on #17, especially after the turn near the red tee? it is obvious along the line from the blue to red tee, but after the OB line turns to the right it is very ambiguous, particularly when you get down the path a ways near the basket and lake..ran into this problem out there yesterday. i took a double circle 9 from the blue. joy.

it would be very helpful to get some sort of ribbon or paint on the trees or maybe a wooden stake like the one marking where new trees are going to be transplanted.

i still love the course...but that hole is my new nemesis. :)



Brian, here's the easy answer. Along the right side of the fairway are recently-planted trees with big mulch rings at the base. Other than one tree that's way out there, they define the OB.

Fine print: The tree that's farthest from the tee is in-bounds. Also, there's a stake where the parks dept. will be planting a new tree -- that brings the OB closer to the pin. They also plan to install stakes next to all the OB trees -- obviously that hasn't happened yet. For tournaments, I would definitely put up string.

Hope that was easy enough. That's a big, open, not-so-exciting area out there. I've never been a fan of artificial OB, especially on a permanent course, but this seemed like the best answer. I hope it works well.

Very nice job Mr. Houck, played it for the first time with some friends played the Blue tees only managed 54, I guess not so bad for the first time. I definitely see where I could improve having played and seen the course. TWO THUMBS UP !!! Nice job.

Thanks, JD. I'm sure you'll be in the 40's soon enough.

Anybody going to be at this course tomorrow ????
I am taking off of work and am contemplating the journey to rockwall....

Anybody going to be at this course tomorrow ????
I am taking off of work and am contemplating the journey to Rockwall

Anybody going to be at this course tomorrow ????
I am taking off of work and am contemplating the journey to Rockwall

Anybody going to be at this course tomorrow ????
I am taking off of work and am contemplating the journey to rockwall....
(notice the subtle difference?)

Anyone played this course in the rainy condition we are experiencing at the moment? Going out there on Saturday at least I hope to be able to play this course!

It will be good to know how it holds up, let us know.

Is it located in a low area of the park? Personally i'm waiting for all of the trees to fill in 100%. I want to play it in it's toughest state. Shouldn't be much longer now.

Is it located in a low area of the park? Personally i'm waiting for all of the trees to fill in 100%. I want to play it in it's toughest state. Shouldn't be much longer now.



Let me know when you plan on playing this course.. It has been a while since I played with My_Hero...... I will even wear the shirt... :D

It uses the highest and lowest parts of the park

It uses the highest and lowest parts of the park



How silly of me. I should have known.

10-4 Leebo.

Playin 2 morrow let you know how it plays.

http://www.golfdisc.com/design/rockwall/



The web site is down, can someone renew or re post the map. I will check back later. I have heard it is tough without a map of the course.

The link works for me.

sure, now it works, after spending a lot of time looking for a few of the holes.

Man, hole number 3 is brutal. Took a 6 from the long and 5 from the short. (same as I did on #9)

I do love the short 10, parked it :D

do not like the last several holes, lots of walking after a long round.

I can see what people say about seeing other holes out there. There were lots of neat areas for holes. It was just a flow problem.

I lost count, but shot about a 59/60 from the longs and about the same from the shorts. I really only had problems with 3 and 9, everything else I was paring or got my 4 back with a bird later. I did 4 17 (without playing OB that is)

As far as the mud, most of the holes were just fine. #4 and #6 fairways were messy, the rest were not that bad.

BTW, I don't know if the pond is always that high, but #1 is brutal, thanks to the tree just past the basket, my upshot didn't go in the water. My birdie put from the short hit the basket and luckly didn't roll into the water either.

(I was not playing the 2meter rule either, I had 3 discs stuck in trees, those evergreens are murder)

After playing this course this weekend I will only comment that designers should resist the urge to design disc golf courses in North Texas in the winter. Especially a dry winter... It might be advantageous to wait for a rain, and observe the natural drainage, since DG courses do not have engineered drainage. Over half of this course has zero natural drainage. There were entire holes that were flooded with significant stagnant water with mosquito hatches occurring constantly.

If you are at all allergic to poison ivy, I suggest you wear long pants and long sleeves. This will also help to protect you from the huge thorn trees that line many of the fairways.

If you are not a fan of mosquitoes or chiggers, I suggest a healthy dose of DEET. Sulfur powder in your socks also works well to prevent chigger bites. West Nile virus is now common in North Texas.


West Nile Virus (http://agnews.tamu.edu/dailynews/stories/ENTO/Jul2502a.htm)

unfortunatly, most parks/disc golf courses are in flood planes. Also, this is Texas, it only rains a few times a year. (like on Texas States and the Carrollton Open)

unfortunatly, most parks/disc golf courses are in flood planes. Also, this is Texas, it only rains a few times a year. (like on Texas States and the Carrollton Open)



Hi Brian,

Well, not to be a stickler...

This course did not need to go into the flood plane. There was enough property in the high areas to make a nice course. To enter the low areas was voluntary. This course takes up a tremendous amount of area. More than I have ever seen used on a rec course.

We are in a drought. It will not last forever. Typically, winter and spring months are much more wet than they have been in the last several years.

This will also help to protect you from the huge thorn trees that line many of the fairways.







Stay in the fairway

But the hole I got the muddiest from was #4 :o It is not even in the low lands. (#2 was pretty muddy too where I landed, but hey, I 3'd it so I didn't care)

[
Hi Brian,

Well, not to be a stickler...

This course did not need to go into the flood plane. There was enough property in the high areas to make a nice course. To enter the low areas was voluntary. This course takes up a tremendous amount of area. More than I have ever seen used on a rec course.




I'm pretty sure that John desinged this to be a championship course and he used all the elevation and area available. I have been to many courses outside of Texas to play tournaments on championship courses and they all require a bit of walking. You all should feel fortunate to have a course like this that you can play, regardless of the mud. At least when it has rained there you have cement tees to throw from, come to austin after a good rain and enjoy our mud hole boxes :D

This will also help to protect you from the huge thorn trees that line many of the fairways.







Stay in the fairway



Ah, yes. I am sure you can throw this entire course and never deviate from the fairway... I bow to your greatness.

I've seen him play, he does. Of course, it's pretty easy to do that when you can barely reach 150'... but they are all *really* straight 150 foot shots.

I've seen him play, he does. Of course, it's pretty easy to do that when you can barely reach 150'... but they are all *really* straight 150 foot shots.



That explains it....

[
Hi Brian,

Well, not to be a stickler...

This course did not need to go into the flood plane. There was enough property in the high areas to make a nice course. To enter the low areas was voluntary. This course takes up a tremendous amount of area. More than I have ever seen used on a rec course.




I'm pretty sure that John desinged this to be a championship course and he used all the elevation and area available. I have been to many courses outside of Texas to play tournaments on championship courses and they all require a bit of walking. You all should feel fortunate to have a course like this that you can play, regardless of the mud. At least when it has rained there you have cement tees to throw from, come to austin after a good rain and enjoy our mud hole boxes :D



SECOND....
City- I hope your crusade to rid the planet of disc golf in flood plains and dense vegetations is successful. For now, I will be thankful that I have courses to play on..

If it wasn't for flood plains the city of Houston parks facilities would all be softball or soccer fields. Any nice parcel of property gets developed "for the underpriviledged children"

SECOND....
City- I hope your crusade to rid the planet of disc golf in flood plains and dense vegetations is successful. For now, I will be thankful that I have courses to play on..



You really assume too much.

The truth of the matter is that the majority of the Rockwall course is at elevation. There was certainly enough property AT THIS LOCATION to design a "normal" course (read that "non champion" course with a majority of par 4's and par 5's), and never use the low lying areas.

I must admit I have no idea why the low lying, over grown areas of property say "play here", even when other areas are available.

It will be difficult for disc golf to ever be mainstream sport if the courses are built in areas that most people would not even enter voluntarily.

BTW, there are MANY MANY MANY courses in the area that are not designed around cesspools, toxic waste dumps, etc. Even though I am sure these properties are available.

This will also help to protect you from the huge thorn trees that line many of the fairways.







Stay in the fairway



Ah, yes. I am sure you can throw this entire course and never deviate from the fairway... I bow to your greatness.



Eyes down

I played this course last Sunday and was blown away at what this course demands of the player! I love the par 4's and par 5's and wish more courses in the area where that difficult. I admit it was soupy in a couple of area's but I still would not have changed a thing except adding a couple of bridges and a few warning signs for the people that do not know that a course is now in the park. I cant wait to return to this course! This is one of my favorite courses in the area so far. I think that only using the higher elevations of this course would take away from its appeal to me! Keep up the great work John!

Great actors make bad movies also.When you play it you can make your comments.I thought my comments were honest and accurate ;) ;).



you might want to take Fort Worth of of your advertisment...since it doesn't exist anymore

Hey, Rockwall fans. If you like Rockwall, you'll probably love the course in Hot Springs, Arkansas. It's got lots of great par fours and par fives, and it's even more hilly and beautiful.

It's cut through the woods, so it's a bit tighter than Rockwall, but generally not as tight as Rockwall holes like 5, 6, or 9. Hole #7 is probably most like a Hot Springs hole.

They're having their first big PDGA event in a couple weeks. Some of you might want to check it out. There's info up at

http://sndg.org/stats/event.php/746

Mike Olse was just there last weekend working with parks crews and local volunteers to trim trees, widen a couple fairways, and tweak a few tee and pin locations. The parks guy there, Don George, is another huge supporter of disc golf and wants to make his course a jewel of the southeast. It's definitely worth checking out.

It's called Cedar Glades County Park, and it's in the PDGA course directory.

Thanks John, I have been hearing about that course for a while now. Good to see them getting it in the ground. I am now making plans on playing it this year for sure.....

When are we going to get a pdga event at the Rock?! I can't wait!!!

Mini found at Rockwall, Hole #1..

mini, not a big deal but if you lost a good mini Fri or Sat this weekend, please let me know..

it's not METAL :)

was it orange with a green alien? Said TEX on the back of it!

Finally made the drive out to this course this weekend ..
What a place. Individually , the holes are of some of the best design I have ever played . As a collective... People are going to get hurt out here. THere is soo much overlap, keep your eyes to the sky.... Cant wait to get back out there.... Hole 3 and 17- BRILLIANT.. Hole 9 is a mofo... Loved it . Hole 11- might be one of the nicest fairways in Texas.

was it orange with a green alien? Said TEX on the back of it!



No

If anybody finds a blue z surge in the tall tall grass by hole 12, I would love to get that one back.. thanks!

Probably headed out to experience this course for the 1st time this Sunday morning.

Stay in the fairways. Lots o' tall grass.

Pay attention when you come off of hole 8 , hole nine is hard to find. It is also one of the tougher holes on the course.. Me likes alot. Was very happy with a 4 from the blue tee...

Hopefully the grass will be mowed. Yea right!! Remember how tall the grass would get out at Elgin B Roberts?

Lamoreaux(Cedar Hill's one and only rodent trainer) and myself will be making the trip on Sunday morn. Anyone else care to join?

I would be honored to have the opportunity to join the two of you if you would allow a broken down could'a been to play.

I won't be able to make it to Athens again this year because of work, I need to get in some golfing this weekend.

I might be able to make this, what time you meeting up?

Brian, it'll be sometime around mid morning...say 10ish. Would that work for you?

I'm so there-ish!

Why don't you just drive a little farther. Say Athens distance. :p

Hope all is well for you, you near-okie. ;)

This bee will bee busy with honey-do lists on Saturday! Beesides you have enough of my money legend!

Why don't you just drive a little farther. Say Athens distance.



Brian should go to Athens. He'd do great there. Maybe he's still counting all of that BB money.

As for me, if i could play 84 holes i'd be there...especially since Sayre will be there, but the lego my ego muscle barely makes it through 18 holes. I'm sure 18 Houck designed holes are going to take its toll.

yep, got some more last night when Scott Cook and I hooked up in dubs for a -10. That guy can putt!!

Going to tee off as close to 10am as possible.

See you there.

Played Rockwall today with Gary Duke, My-Hero and the gang. Really enjoyed it! Pepperling and partner shoot -6 in doubles (48), 67 is regulation par. Will post scores from our dubs later so the Houckster can see how his course is playing. Only criticism... need clearly defined ob on 17; picking some little trees is silly ;)

need clearly defined ob on 17; picking some little trees is silly




AMEN

need clearly defined ob on 17; picking some little trees is silly




AMEN



I really enjoyed playing the course today with "the gang". I agree with Brian, a clearly defined OB (or mando for that matter) would make all the difference in the world.

Hole 3 was a thing of beauty.......

Only sharing a common love for frisbees in flight could bring a gang like that together. The course was exactly what i expected it to be. Shot placement was critical on the longer holes. There were a few duece or die holes. Medium lengthed 300-450' holes were never *easy*. The highest and lowest points of the land were used. etc.

Awesome course to add to DFW's potpourri of courses. Thank you John!!!....and I'd think you'd like to know that most of us were exhausted after the ONE round.

The teams were:

Duke(921)/Schmidt(984) = 952.5 rating average
Sillimen(968)/Lamoreaux(930ish) = 949
Maiuro(1000)/Shugart(910)= 955
Pepperling(987)/Brown(975ish) = 981

I'd like to hear the scores again. I already forgot them. I had a one(well, 2) track mind thing going on.....ice for the leg muscle and a cold beer for the brain. :D

YEAH! It was good to see you guys again. Not sure of everyones scores, but thanks to Peppers putter, we scored a 49.

Carried the GPS as it collected the data.

It's NOT about the numbers, but here are some interesting ones:


2.85 miles walked from 1's tee pad to 18's basket. (blue course)

1 hour 44 minutes MOVING time.

1 hour 45 minutes STOPPED time.

Max speed. 6.5 mph (i must have been running down a steep bank :D)

Average moving speed 1.8 mph

Average total speed 0.8 mph

There are better forms of cardio exercise out there. :D

Does that toy have the difference in elevation?

It does measure elevation, but i didn't notice the difference before i reset it.

Also, what is par for the blue course? Didn't you guys have 15 birdies? (I know you birdied holes 1 through 10)

We had 11 or 12 birdies and went bogey free, but you and Pep were HOT!

Holes 1, 3, and 9 were my favs.

I believe course par for the blue is 64
red - 65

It does measure elevation, but i didn't notice the difference before i reset it.

Also, what is par for the blue course? Didn't you guys have 15 birdies? (I know you birdied holes 1 through 10)

We had 11 or 12 birdies and went bogey free, but you and Pep were HOT!



Yeah! I think we had 15 birdies. I would like to have that 30 foot eagle putt on hole 3 over again. I had some great shots, but they were totally shadowed by Pepper.

I like #2 a lot.

I think #3 is longer than it needs to be. I would like the basket at the top of the rise over the casual water place. It was overkill putting the hole all the way back in the woods.

It would have been better to move #4's tee back to that area.

Are there going to be trees planted or a mando on #8 to make the lefty shot?

I agree on #17, the small tree line that mark OB should all be mandatories. That would avoid tournament players from throwing over the OB. When I played the hole last, I turned it over and played the shot from the tee side of the OB, my next shot was over all the ob to the other side. (thank you Wraith)

There is nothing wrong with hole 3's pin placement. That location makes it a true par 5 . Although, hole 4 could use a little extra something... A little to bland to follow up the best true par 5 in the metroplex.

#3 needs to be back there for it to be a true par 5. Pep and Mike had a 35' eagle putt on it.....both just missed, but it needs to be back in da woods!

fyi, par is 64 from blue, 65 from red (i know that seems backwards, but it's because #7 is same teebox, par 3 when playing blue tees, par 4 when playing red)

i like #5's basket exactly where it's at. i do agree that the OB on #17 is very screwy, even after playing it several times. every time they mow the grass the stake that marks the OB out in the field gets broken and/or moved. some of you might not be playing the OB line correctly...the stake is out there in the middle of the field at it connects from the last tree past (to the right from) the red teebox all the way to the stake then to the tree just to the back right of the basket. the OB line comes very near the basket.

i'm just a mere mortal compared to you other guys...the best i've managed is a 69 from blue and a 60 from red.

#3 needs to be back there for it to be a true par 5. Pep and Mike had a 35' eagle putt on it.....both just missed, but it needs to be back in da woods!



That had to have been a beautiful up shot for the 35 footer to happen. The elevation and vegetation on that approach is soo nice. So technical. I will be happy with a pick up 4 on that hole anyday of the week ( from the blue ) I did get the 3 from the red tee... Not too shabby also.. But the red seems more like a par 4 .

fyi, par is 64 from blue, 65 from red (i know that seems backwards, but it's because #7 is same teebox, par 3 when playing blue tees, par 4 when playing red)

i like #5's basket exactly where it's at. i do agree that the OB on #17 is very screwy, even after playing it several times. every time they mow the grass the stake that marks the OB out in the field gets broken and/or moved. some of you might not be playing the OB line correctly...the stake is out there in the middle of the field at it connects from the last tree past (to the right from) the red teebox all the way to the stake then to the tree just to the back right of the basket. the OB line comes very near the basket.

i'm just a mere mortal compared to you other guys...the best i've managed is a 69 from blue and a 60 from red.



Stakes. What stakes? We saw one orange flag at the base the biggest tree so we played that as the mando and then stayed to the left of the trees going towards the basket. At least all of the upshots where well left of them.

Ron and I took a 4 on hole 3. And I was very happy to have it.

Holes 9 and 10 were pretty darn cool as well.

Brian

the stake is way away from any tree out in the mowed fairway, maybe 100ft short of the basket...the OB line goes way out in the field away from the trees and makes the artificial "lake" come really close to to the right edge of the green...

i drove up from austin sat to play this bad ***** course and it didnt disapoint. 3 and a half rounds and then i drove back long day but i loved it :D:)

Scores from doubles on Sunday in pdf format. Haven't figured out how to post to a table here yet. If someone knows how let me know!

Rockwall Scores (http://www.lodga.com/pdf/rockwall.pdf)

Wow Brian, y'all got smoked. :D

yeah, I forgot my rockstar energy drink :D but really there was no money on the line, so my "A" game stayed at home ;) oh and my dog ate my favorite putter :)

Thanks for the scores Brian. Had fun, lets do it again!


Rockwall Scores (http://www.lodga.com/pdf/rockwall.pdf)
<font color="red"> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ </font>

http://www.golfdisc.com/design/rockwall/images/OverviewLarge.gif

Spinich:Popeye...................Rockstar:Brian :D

Rockstar: Brian..........................Cigar: McCaine

In the sense that they are necessities to us maybe, but those Rockstars make Brian kick major donkey. Nothing can make me kick donkey.

John Houck, you are an evil, evil little man. But you sure know how to design a world-class disc golf course. I played a round from the blue tees a little over a week ago (probably the driest it's been in a while), and I was very impressed. I had a little navigational trouble (to be expected on a world-class course), but I think the holes progress pretty well. Tourney flow is probably a different situation though (but when is it not, when you're playing a non-birdiefest?). #3 (once I found it!) is indeed an incredible hole. I wish I had re-played it knowing where I was going...I might have pulled out a 4 instead of a 5.

I'm not sure if it's like this on weekends, but for a Friday, there were a TON of little kids all over the place near holes 5-8. Get ready to explain what you're doing when you're chunking a frisbee into a tree on hole 5!

My favorite holes were 3, 9, 11, 14, and 16. I counted 9 possible birdies (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 13, 14, 15, 18), although I'm sure others could be hit, those are the ones you can realistically go for. I felt pretty good hitting 6 of them and not getting any posted-par bogeys, for a score of 54. I think I spoiled myself with some lucky shots and unusually good putting, so when I go out there and shoot in the 60's, I'll get a true taste of what this course is designed for.

Hoping to get out there again this Friday and/or Saturday between 8-2...anyone want to join?

Thanks again to the city of Rockwall and John Houck, as well as any others putting this course together. It's definitely a keeper!

**Nevermind...found my answer on another thread :D**

I've heard some rumors of a possible MaceMan event out there this weekend (May 19-20)....can anyone confirm this?

Mr. Houck? Mr. Mace? Anyone?

Yes, on the Macemans North Texas thread, he stated Saturday the 19th, rules at 9am (sign up earlier)

if you're playing the OB correctly, what you just said would put most people OB. from the blue tee i think it's over 400ft to clear the OB, isn't it? the OB doesnt just follow the trees, it goes out into the middle of the field toward the basket (there is a stake out there where a new tree will be planted...the one houck mentions....it's hard to find but it's out there). the OB line basically runs from the blue tee to the red tee then out into the open field where the stake is then towards the basket. the OB line comes within about 40-50ft of the basket...it's a tight shot.

personally i think it either needs to be fully marked with rope or it should just not be played OB, or maybe a couple of volunteers could be stationed out there to ensure consistency with the OB play.



I think your tee shot and mine will differ greatly. My tee shot usually lands behind or to the left of the red tee. Play another anny around the ob like you would on the red tee. Very simple . Perhaps there is something lost in translation. But I do agree. we will need some sort of clarification on this subject !



If you look at the tee sign located at the Red Box (where most of us throw to when throwing from the blue) you'll see that an OB line continues down 3/4 of fairway on the right side. Silly me, a pic is worth 1000 words..... This is how we interpreted the signage.




................................ <font color="red"> RP </font>

<font color="blue"> BP </font> ------------------
...........................M\
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

................................ <font color="orange"> P </font>



BP = blue pad
RP = red pad
x = OB
M = Mando
P = pin
- = In bounds
. = a lot of dirt

*Bump* - hahaha

Played the par 64 blue course today with Pat Brenner and Teammate Adam Goodman. Neither of them had seen the course so it was a must do while AG was in town from the NorthEast. Who keeps ordering this WIND we've had this month? Geeeeeez. It was southernly sustained at 20mph with gusts to well over 35mph. I shot a (-4) 60, which i was pleased with especially after missing a 15 footer (low) on #3 and then missing another 15 footer (high) on #4. :confused: Shoulda, woulda, coulda......but didn't. :D

It's a classic Houck design; utilizing the highest and lowest points in the park, tough landing zones on the par 4's and 5's, and duece or die holes. I think it's the best course hands down on the Dallas side of the metroplex. I just wish it was a little closer to home as it's 50 miles from Euless(pretty much the center of the Mplex).

Though it was my 4th time to visit, it's worthy of another THANKYOU!

City of Rockwall - Lake Park - Master plan PDF (http://www.rockwall.com/Parks/Documents/LakePark.pdf)

Check out page 9 of the PDF, last line...looks like Rockwall will eventually be getting another course :D

Nice. At first i thought you were joking, as i was looking at the "Wetlands" area thinking that's where they'll *allow* us.....Then i saw it. :D

Also, Dallas players, keep your eyes out for a Darth Vader dyed Surge that i carelessly left on 17's fairway after throwing multiple shots. It looks exactly like the one pictured here.

http://img5.glowfoto.com/images/2008/04/01-1425089345M.jpg