I'm sure there's an official procedure for this, but I can't find it.

What's proper protocol when setting up cards for the 2nd round with regards to ties? How do TDs determine who plays on a lead card if there are let's say 7 players tied in a division?

Usually original order is used. In Worlds, players are ordered by lowest PDGA number when tied in every round to that point. We sometimes use the old MFA method where you look at the cards starting on hole 18 and working backwards based on individual hole scores.

So there is flexibility and no "official" way to set it up?

I'll probably opt for the MFA method. BTW, what does MFA stand for?

Thanks for responding!

- doot

I don't think this is formal but what I've seen:

Hot/Best round (used to break up ties for positioning after the 2nd round)
Most birdies (2's)
Fewest bogies (4's)
Fewest circles (OB's)

After that, it's some 'random' way -- alpha last name, PDGA #, shoe size, etc.

Minnesota Frisbee Association. The minor drawback with the MFA method is that with shotgun starts, players played hole 18 at different times in their round.

The rule is 804.07.A - Ties.

~The player with the lowest score in the most recent round shall have the highest ranking when the scorecards/positions are reset. In the event of low score ties, the ties shall be broken by the director through any consistently applied manner.


Kind of an odd title for the only rule covering ordering of cards between rounds. I remember this being different in the past, but I'll have to look at home to see for sure. Plenty of leeway in deciding how to order players tied by round scores.

I much prefer the "original order" method, meaning if you were above me on the leaderboard to start the tourney and we shoot the same score, you stay above me on the leaderboard. Provided you used the "not really required" rule for initial ordering of cards (random) it is fair.

I was just going to post the same thing Gary...

It does not matter how ties are broken, as long as they are broken the same throughout the leaderboard.

If you want to start with the letter P and then do aphabetical, then fine. If you want to do PDGA numbers in reverse order, then fine. As long as is consistent!

I usually do alphabetical order by last name, just b/c it is easy and quick to do.

I was just going to post the same thing Gary...

It does not matter how ties are broken, as long as they are broken the same throughout the leaderboard.

If you want to start with the letter P and then do aphabetical, then fine. If you want to do PDGA numbers in reverse order, then fine. As long as is consistent!

I usually do alphabetical order by last name, just b/c it is easy and quick to do.



I prefer they be broken randomly, but as long as you are consistent in how you break the ties, you are following the rule.

Chap

My brother Jon likes to go by PDGA number with priority to lowest number. I like to do it randomly in the sense that I don't look at the names on the cards; I just throw them up on the leaderboard. I'm not sure what Kelsey does when she does the leaderboard. I should ask her.

I do mine by alphabetical order. I tried most birdies/least bogies, but if you give each a 1/-1 value you find that all ties end with the same number. After the second round all sorts are based on previous rounds and then alphabetically.

Last name for deciding kinnda bites when you have been pushed to a lower card for that sole reason numerous times.

Last name is poor way to decide and a dissadvantage sometimes IMHO,and mentally(good or bad),card position and players on card can and does have an effect in some shape or form on players.

Example being...

Say your on your last hole,if your one stroke outta cash or in second even and the hole has a "favored route" for say the easy 3,and a "local route" that can get you a 2 or a 10,this is where one may have the advantage becouse it supports options!

Why is my dad being used as the decision when i'm the one playing?? :o:D

Well said DJ Whiner :D

Since you're playing the course and not the people in your group, does it really make a difference how the pairings are done? That's assuming you don't end up with "difficult" players in your group. But no system will prevent that from happening every so often.

here in spotsy we use the "zadareky rule" - inverse alphabetical order. i figured ted had spent his whole life going last because of his last name so started doing it that way.

Since you're playing the course and not the people in your group, does it really make a difference how the pairings are done? That's assuming you don't end up with "difficult" players in your group. But no system will prevent that from happening every so often.

It matters.

So, let us look at this closely. You are in your third round and apparently you have had a last bad round. I say this because if you had a good round you would have moved to the top of the group you are tied with. Remember I said the order was based first on score, then each of your previous rounds and lastly on the alphabetical order. Regardless of the way it is done someone will have a complaint. If you reverse the order then people still complain about the order based on alphabetical order.

Should I do it by PDGA number? No then the late comers or non-current members would complain. Order signed up? That is not a bad idea, but then someone would complain the order was messed up. Random? Not a bad idea, but the facts are, after the first round, which is supposed to be random, you are playing with the players you are tied with, not the same players in the same group time after time based on last name.

DJ you may have misunderstood me. The first round is a random selection as per PDGA rules. The only time alphabetical order comes into play is after the first round scores are tallied. Then it is Total Score, Previous Round Scores and then last name.


Example being...

Say your on your last hole,if your one stroke outta cash or in second even and the hole has a "favored route" for say the easy 3,and a "local route" that can get you a 2 or a 10,this is where one may have the advantage becouse it supports options!

Why is my dad being used as the decision when i'm the one playing?? :o:D

here in spotsy we use the "zadareky rule" - inverse alphabetical order. i figured ted had spent his whole life going last because of his last name so started doing it that way.



and since playing under that rule in virginia, i do the same thing at my events, which usually gets a laugh out of people trying to figure out what i'm talking about when i mention that the board is set by the zadarecky rule :D

since my last name is in the middle of the alphabet and my pdga # is in the middle of the pack also, forward or backward last names don't really affect me....
but is is surprising how many times you ask a td how they are going to break ties after the first round and they look at you like you were nuts...
in some large tournaments you can have 4-5 cards with the same scores after the first round and conditions on the course(not who you are playing with) can certainly be different for those holes if they are open or wooded as you will sometimes hit them at different wind conditons/rain conditions times than your oppenents who had the same score you did...it's just sometimes luck of the draw(or father :D)

keith

Since you're playing the course and not the people in your group, does it really make a difference how the pairings are done? That's assuming you don't end up with "difficult" players in your group. But no system will prevent that from happening every so often.


I think there are a lot of was to get it right by most players, but I played a tournament once where the lead card had 3 players and the chase group had 5. I was the top (by score) on the chase card. That's just wrong and hard to justify. Otherwise I've always heard:

1st. Most birdies
2nd. Fewest Bogies
3rd. Fewest OBs

If one group in a division has to have one more player than the other groups, it should always be the top card. That's something we should probably get in the Competition manual.

For the record, I'd always assumed that it was always done by total score (obviously) -> recent round score -> PDGA number. To the extent that if I'm in a tie after the first round, I assume that the order in which the tie is arranged on the board indicates the order in which we joined the PDGA, and occasionally wish I'd been around longer so I could have been on the next card up. It hadn't occurred to me that I might be mistaken.