Not sure if this has ever been brought up, but I will post it anyway. The other night I was watching the Skylands DVD and noticed something peculiar about Dave's jump putt motion. Is it me or does it look like he foot faults almost every time he uses his jump putt? Anybody else notice this? He does it on the '05 Worlds one too.

Don't always trust the angle of the camera. It can be deceiving.

If you watch the "Nice Putt!" extra, you will see a lot of putts that don't look very far, but I know that they are because I know that (for example) "that tree" is 45 feet from "that basket", you know what I mean?

Anyway, I just mean that unless the camera is shooting directly perpendicular to where he is putting, I wouldn't trust the tape.

Is it me or does it look like he foot faults almost every time he uses his jump putt?


Nobody is calling it...


Besides, I think he brings his non-plant foot forward first.

To me, and my distance vision is just fine, it looks like the vast majority of jump putts are violations. But try to get agreement during play, it happens too fast and there are too many view angles. It's amazingly difficult to get the disc out of your hand before your foot leaves the ground. I'd like to see jump putts made illegal, because I suspect that most of them technically are. (Or change the rule.)

Is it me or does it look like he foot faults almost every time he uses his jump putt?


Nobody is calling it...


Besides, I think he brings his non-plant foot forward first.

correct, that is what he is doing. I dont think this has been talked about, but, Dave myself and several others have viewed ourselves on film several times in slow motion just to see how close we are to foot faulting........Not even close....Like Terry said, it is near impossible to make a putt with your plant foot off the ground.

I don't think that is what Terry said, and I do agree with the last part, and maybe all of it. Make jump putts legal outside the circle. And I would add, NO JUMPING INTO THE CIRCLE. In other words, you can only step into the circle from outside after your first foot touches down outside the circle. This effectively widens the circle slightly for jump putts, but allows them otherwise when they are really needed.

What do you think?

I have been messing around in my yard and tried to jump and then putt... it is pretty hard.

Also, I don't think that too many people jump into the circle. At most courses you can't tell exactly where the circle is so I think that if there is a question of weather you are outside of it or notmost people won't jump just to be safe.

Not sure if this has ever been brought up, but I will post it anyway. The other night I was watching the Skylands DVD and noticed something peculiar about Dave's jump putt motion. Is it me or does it look like he foot faults almost every time he uses his jump putt? Anybody else notice this? He does it on the '05 Worlds one too.



Dave's is legal. Also like Schwed said it is really hard to get powers after your foot has left the ground. I release my JPs while the front part of my foot is still basically planted on the ground and it comes off the ground way after the disc leaves my hand.

I don't think that is what Terry said, and I do agree with the last part, and maybe all of it. Make jump putts legal outside the circle. And I would add, NO JUMPING INTO THE CIRCLE. In other words, you can only step into the circle from outside after your first foot touches down outside the circle. This effectively widens the circle slightly for jump putts, but allows them otherwise when they are really needed.

What do you think?


Dave, why not allow jumping into the circle? Just wondering, because that added stipulation would just be another difficult thing to call since most tournaments don't have painted circles. I'd like to know what you think not allowing it gains us and whether or not it is worth the trouble of a difficult to call rule.

If the stance rules are followed and the disc is released while the plant foot is on the ground, I don't really see a great advantage gained by landing inside the circle. At best a 6-footer is only going to get maybe 4 feet closer to the basket while also having to compensate for nearing vertical. Actually sounds like a disadvantage to me. :)

Not sure if this has ever been brought up, but I will post it anyway. The other night I was watching the Skylands DVD and noticed something peculiar about Dave's jump putt motion. Is it me or does it look like he foot faults almost every time he uses his jump putt? Anybody else notice this? He does it on the '05 Worlds one too.

It is not just you and it is not just Dave Feldberg either. A lot of players throw those leaping putts. Sometimes they are close to legal. Sometimes they are not close.

This thread is becoming young vs old :)

I have no problem with jump putts, as long as they're done right. The top guys are usually pretty good, it's the lower-level pros and top-level ams who think they can jump putt but can't that really give it the bad name. They don't know what they're doing, they jump and get off the ground before they release, and they also tend to really suck at it and send the disc in every direction. That's my $.02, but I straddle 75' and in...

(I was actually putting in my driveway about an hour ago, and I was thinking about writing an article on the old illegal jump putt. Then I come in and see this thread.)

I say, allow the jump putt, but also allow the linebacker blitz. You have to get the putt off, before I get to you. That would make it way more entertaining. Well, at least for me.

It's amazingly difficult to get the disc out of your hand before your foot leaves the ground.



I have found the exact opposite to be true. I find it nearly impossible and incredibly inaccurate to throw or putt a disc if there's no ground to push from.

[/QUOTE]
Dave, why not allow jumping into the circle? Just wondering, because that added stipulation would just be another difficult thing to call since most tournaments don't have painted circles. I'd like to know what you think not allowing it gains us and whether or not it is worth the trouble of a difficult to call rule.

If the stance rules are followed and the disc is released while the plant foot is on the ground, I don't really see a great advantage gained by landing inside the circle. At best a 6-footer is only going to get maybe 4 feet closer to the basket while also having to compensate for nearing vertical. Actually sounds like a disadvantage to me. :)

[/QUOTE]

I posed it as a negotiation for people who are opposed to the unseemliness of falling putts and jump putts in general. It's a middle position that I think everyone can live with. On the one hand, we have no falling putts including illegal jumps, (which is what the rules state), and on the other we have no rules other than starting from the lie. I actually proposed the later to simplify the rules, but I am fine with the medium position I proffered in my first post. What I am not fine with is a rule that is not enforceable, like it is now.

To answer a different way; I don't care if they jump in the circle, but I know others do. And, I don't think it is any more cumbersome than having an imaginary circle for anything. The imaginary circle is there for falls or jumps. I don't see a difference.

To me, and my distance vision is just fine, it looks like the vast majority of jump putts are violations. But try to get agreement during play, it happens too fast and there are too many view angles. It's amazingly difficult to get the disc out of your hand before your foot leaves the ground. I'd like to see jump putts made illegal, because I suspect that most of them technically are. (Or change the rule.)



Agreed !!!!!!

I guess alot of players choose not to show complete balance. :( Very few players have I ever seen , Jump Putt correctly.
Maybe there should be a Video or CD on Jump Putting Correctly !!!!!!!!

From 60 feet out is OK. When it's close to 10 meter's and you have to ask , the rule should state specifically , NO JUMP PUTTING !!!!!!! Or get a 1 stroke penalty for a falling putt !!!!! I have seen many , Jump Putt from just barely outside the circle and land inside the circle !!!!! And they say " Well , I was outside the Circle when I started , so it's good " !!!! Bull !!!!!!

C'mon ...............................If your a PRO , you should be able to stand still and Bang 40-50 footers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pro means you are able to play without circumventing the rules in your favor......................even when your tired !!!!!

I'm not picking on Dave Feldberg either. I just wish he didn't smoke cigarettes in the Finals !!!!! I had two little kids ask me why he was doing that !!!!

To me, and my distance vision is just fine, it looks like the vast majority of jump putts are violations. But try to get agreement during play, it happens too fast and there are too many view angles. It's amazingly difficult to get the disc out of your hand before your foot leaves the ground. I'd like to see jump putts made illegal, because I suspect that most of them technically are. (Or change the rule.)



Agreed !!!!!!

I guess alot of players choose not to show complete balance. :( Very few players have I ever seen , Jump Putt correctly.
Maybe there should be a Video or CD on Jump Putting Correctly !!!!!!!!

From 60 feet out is OK. When it's close to 10 meter's and you have to ask , the rule should state specifically , NO JUMP PUTTING !!!!!!! Or get a 1 stroke penalty for a falling putt !!!!! I have seen many , Jump Putt from just barely outside the circle and land inside the circle !!!!! And they say " Well , I was outside the Circle when I started , so it's good " !!!! Bull !!!!!!

C'mon ...............................If your a PRO , you should be able to stand still and Bang 40-50 footers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pro means you are able to play without circumventing the rules in your favor......................even when your tired !!!!!




I know many players that jump putt just outside the circle and as long as they are doign it legally more power to them. You have chosen not to but they should also have a choice.

To me, and my distance vision is just fine, it looks like the vast majority of jump putts are violations. But try to get agreement during play, it happens too fast and there are too many view angles. It's amazingly difficult to get the disc out of your hand before your foot leaves the ground. I'd like to see jump putts made illegal, because I suspect that most of them technically are. (Or change the rule.)



Agreed !!!!!!

I guess alot of players choose not to show complete balance. :( Very few players have I ever seen , Jump Putt correctly.
Maybe there should be a Video or CD on Jump Putting Correctly !!!!!!!!

From 60 feet out is OK. When it's close to 10 meter's and you have to ask , the rule should state specifically , NO JUMP PUTTING !!!!!!! Or get a 1 stroke penalty for a falling putt !!!!! I have seen many , Jump Putt from just barely outside the circle and land inside the circle !!!!! And they say " Well , I was outside the Circle when I started , so it's good " !!!! Bull !!!!!!

C'mon ...............................If your a PRO , you should be able to stand still and Bang 40-50 footers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pro means you are able to play without circumventing the rules in your favor......................even when your tired !!!!!




I know many players that jump putt just outside the circle and as long as they are doign it legally more power to them. You have chosen not to but they should also have a choice.



Kinda like those who choose to smoke pot at tournaments ?


Sorry about that. I shouldn't have gone there !!!!! :p

A jump putt is a part of the game that I think would be a bummer to eliminate at this point. That being said, the ambiguity should be eliminated by making them legal. Forget when your foot leaves the ground versus when the disc leaves. If you make the putt, it is in. I don't see the advantage of shooting an off balance michael Jordan like jump putt over just exploding more with your legs and releasing the disc at the same time that you jump. I like dave's Idea of not being able to jump into the circle. That would work. What about making the circle bigger? That would eliminate the look of someone shooting a "layup." Jump putting for me is a fun part of the game.

I would have no problem if the rule went to 15 meters instead of the 10 meters.

You could even have a Pro rule and a Am rule. (Pro's 15m Am's 10m) There are alot of sports that have different rules for different skill levels.

Look at the three point line in basketball!

Deano... :cool:

That's a really interesting post by Dean - I've never thought about it like that.

I highly doubt they will ever make jump putts illegal cuz then everyone would devolp a step putt for long distance.

Then you would have to make any sort of contact with the ground after release illegal from all distances, then you run into the follow through from a full shots in the fairway and then it's just getting rediculous.

I know this has been covered elsewhere, but I can never remember the rationale for even having a falling putt rule in the first place. Anyone remember?

It seems to me that you really gain no big advantage from falling forward - Maybe your release point will be 1-2' closer to the target. But, you are off balance and your body is in motion, so it would seem harder to be accurate.

A bigger competitive advantage in this regard is a 6'8" guy playing against a 4'8" guy. :p It would make more sense to me to have a rule not allowing them to compete in the same division if this is about unfair competitive advantages.

I say keep the rule that your supporting point that is on your lie MUST be in contact with the ground at the point of release on all throws and do away with the 10M circle and the falling putt rule.

If a jump putt at 25' helps you, use it! If a thumber helps you on your drive, use it! There are not rules against different types of throws in any other situation. :confused:

A jump putt is a part of the game that I think would be a bummer to eliminate at this point. That being said, the ambiguity should be eliminated by making them legal. Forget when your foot leaves the ground versus when the disc leaves.



The problem with that is when you have a horrible lie behind a tree where you can not reach around and get a throw off. So, you take a running leap and while in the air 10' away from your lie, you release your disc. Even if you are 200' away from the basket, you could claim you were just jump putting.

I say, keep the rule that your foot must be in contact with the ground at the point the disc is released. That keeps things simple since it is consistent with all other throws made in DG. I know that is hard to determine without video replays, but at least you know when someone is way off and trying to cheat the rules.

If you have a recurring problem during a round, video it with your camera phone and review it with the offending player....or the TD. :D

It seems to me that you really gain no big advantage from falling forward - Maybe your release point will be 1-2' closer to the target. But, you are off balance and your body is in motion, so it would seem harder to be accurate.



If you are good at jump putting it makes it way easier from ANY distance. I would never miss inside the circle if I was allowed to jump putt, and neither would Feldberg or any body else that has developed the technique...

I know this has been covered elsewhere, but I can never remember the rationale for even having a falling putt rule in the first place. Anyone remember?


Early on in the development of the sport (and rules) there were players who would jump forward and "slam-dunk" putts. To give you some perspective, this happened regularly in tournaments where portable "ground baskets" (rings of chicken wire on the ground) were used. Sometimes these players would mis-judge their dunk and set their feet down before dunking. It seemed to make sense to require players to throw from their lie, not some point past their lie. This was well before the current jump-putt was thought about.

Allow jump putting. I like Deano's idea of different lenghts for pro/am.

or

I think we should be allowed to run and jump, and dunk the disc in the basket! You just can't have any contact with the ground until after you release the disc. :p Now that would look great on tv! Disc golf dunking contest- for all the people that can't dunk a basketball, there's disc golf! :D

The problem with that is when you have a horrible lie behind a tree where you can not reach around and get a throw off. So, you take a running leap and while in the air 10' away from your lie, you release your disc. Even if you are 200' away from the basket, you could claim you were just jump putting.


People constantly and consistently miss their mark, and always to the good side, in that situation now. And it is almost never called.

Why not make it legal since it is going on anyways?

Alot of people add up their score 'incorrectly' and it always seems to be in their favor. Lets just make that legal! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It seems to me that you really gain no big advantage from falling forward - Maybe your release point will be 1-2' closer to the target. But, you are off balance and your body is in motion, so it would seem harder to be accurate.



If you are good at jump putting it makes it way easier from ANY distance. I would never miss inside the circle if I was allowed to jump putt, and neither would Feldberg or any body else that has developed the technique...



That is cool. Are you arguing for or against the jump putt inside 10M or just stating a point?

A friend of mine has a killer thumber that he parks certain holes that I just can not get to. My choice is to whine (OK quietly concede the stroke) or change the rules or learn a thumber. If jump putts are so great, everyone should learn it, IMO.

I would have no problem if the rule went to 15 meters instead of the 10 meters.

You could even have a Pro rule and a Am rule. (Pro's 15m Am's 10m) There are alot of sports that have different rules for different skill levels.

Look at the three point line in basketball!

Deano... :cool:



Am's 20 meters , Pro's 40 meters !!!!!!! Sounds fair enough !!!!

Alot of people add up their score 'incorrectly' and it always seems to be in their favor. Lets just make that legal! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


I've TD'd a lot of tournaments and in my experience the "wrong total" is about 50-50 between better and worse. :)

The best is when they give themselves two more strokes than they threw, so that the total stays exactly what they thought it was!

It seems to me that you really gain no big advantage from falling forward - Maybe your release point will be 1-2' closer to the target. But, you are off balance and your body is in motion, so it would seem harder to be accurate.



If you are good at jump putting it makes it way easier from ANY distance. I would never miss inside the circle if I was allowed to jump putt, and neither would Feldberg or any body else that has developed the technique...



That is cool. Are you arguing for or against the jump putt inside 10M or just stating a point?

A friend of mine has a killer thumber that he parks certain holes that I just can not get to. My choice is to whine (OK quietly concede the stroke) or change the rules or learn a thumber. If jump putts are so great, everyone should learn it, IMO.



Just stating a point (I try not to argue). I do think that jumping makes putting easier, but that more than likely isn't true for everyone.

I guess I would be against jump putting within 10m. I kinda like the rule the way it is. Anyone that thinks we release before our foot comes off the ground probably has not analyzed the situation close enough. It is awkward and it would defeat the purpose of jumping to relase after your jump. The point is to throw WHILE you are jumping...

Alot of people add up their score 'incorrectly' and it always seems to be in their favor. Lets just make that legal! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



That is HI-Larious! I have never TDed before so I have not had the opportunity to chuckle at those type of things. I guess I was refering to cheating but forgot how frequently people ACCIDENTALLY add up their scores incorrectly. Either way I say LEGALIZEIT!

I would have no problem if the rule went to 15 meters instead of the 10 meters.

You could even have a Pro rule and a Am rule. (Pro's 15m Am's 10m) There are alot of sports that have different rules for different skill levels.

Look at the three point line in basketball!

Deano... :cool:



That would just cause confusion when Pros and Ams are on the same course. You would need separate ratings due to the different rules for each group. I like the idea though just think it would make Chuck's Blood Pressure go up. :p

803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off

A. When the disc is released, a player must:
(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in 803.04 E); and,
(2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
(3) have all of his or her supporting points in-bounds.

B. Stepping past the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when putting within 10 meters.



The rule is pretty unambiguous. I think anyone who is really "jumping" before their putts is putting themselves at a bad disadvantage (aside from breaking the rule) since doing so completely eliminates your power source for your putts (as several very good players have noted here). When watching DF, I noticed he always has his foot in contact with the ground until after he releases (completely legal, regardless of what he does after he releases). Most jump putters I've seen do it legally. Anyone who does it illegaly probably does it very poor, anyway, and their crappy score is penalty enough for illegal jump putts.

That said, I would be open (open to the idea, not in support of it, just open to it) to moving the circle back, since I seem to putt better from 35 feet out than I do 25 feet out, with the jump putt advantage. I'd like to see a better accuracy distribution according to distance from the basket (i.e. you miss more as you move further away), so perhaps someone could take some stats on the average distance where jump putts become as accurate as just throwing at the basket and call that distance the line.



Early on in the development of the sport (and rules) there were players who would jump forward and "slam-dunk" putts



If this was the reason behind the rule, then why are people advocating a change to the 30 foot line? Doing a slam dunk from there would by similar to dunking a basketball from the 3 point line. Not easy for the average disc golfer.

Actually in terms of rules and strokes, disc golf is much easier on the players than golf.

If a player turns in a wrong score card in golf, he is DQed, not penalized 2 strokes.

If a golfer runs out of balls (which he limited to the number he can bring), he is DQed. In Disc Golf, a guy can bring as many discs as he wants and there is no rule as to adding discs to a bag to replace a disc or for any other reason during a round.

Actually in terms of rules and strokes, disc golf is much easier on the players than golf.

If a player turns in a wrong score card in golf, he is DQed, not penalized 2 strokes.

If a golfer runs out of balls (which he limited to the number he can bring), he is DQed. In Disc Golf, a guy can bring as many discs as he wants and there is no rule as to adding discs to a bag to replace a disc or for any other reason during a round.



Not quite. If a player reports a score lower than reality, then he is DQ'ed. If a players reports a score higher than reality, he's stuck with it. (Or so I remember.)

Also, a golfer can add/replace a club during a round, as long as he doesn't impede play or go beyond the 14 club limit.

If a golfer runs out of balls (which he limited to the number he can bring), he is DQed. In Disc Golf, a guy can bring as many discs as he wants and there is no rule as to adding discs to a bag to replace a disc or for any other reason during a round.



WRONG! From the USGA website:


Rule 5

Maximum number of Balls

Q. What is the maximum number of balls I can have in my bag or use during the stipulated round?

A. The Rules of Golf do not place a limit on the number of balls that can be carried or used during the round.

Rule 5

What if I run out of Golf Balls?

Q. If a player runs out of golf balls during a round, may he borrow a ball from another player?

A. Yes. There is nothing in the Rules of Golf that prohibits a player from borrowing a golf ball from an opponent or fellow-competitor. A player who runs out of balls may get a new supply from any source, provided he does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7) in the process. Although golf balls are part of a player`s equipment, the only type of equipment that the Rules limit the borrowing of is clubs Rule 4-4(Decision 5-1/5)

hmm, well I was totally wrong!

Thanks for the clarification.

If a player turns in a wrong score card in golf, he is DQed, not penalized 2 strokes.



That is correct.

I don't have the time to find the rule right now, but I am almost sure that in DG you CANNOT add a disc to your bag DURING a round.

I don't have the time to find the rule right now, but I am almost sure that in DG you CANNOT add a disc to your bag DURING a round.



I'll give you $20 if you can find that rule.

I don't have the time to find the rule right now, but I am almost sure that in DG you CANNOT add a disc to your bag DURING a round.



I may have gotten the golf rule wrong, but I am 100% positive you can add a disc during a round.

I don't have the time to find the rule right now, but I am almost sure that in DG you CANNOT add a disc to your bag DURING a round.



I'll give you $20 if you can find that rule.



Yea, seriously. You're going to need a lot of time to find that rule, because it doesn't exist. It's one of the biggest Non Rule Rules in disc golf.

People must think that because in ball golf you are restricted to 14 clubs, there must be a similar rule in disc golf.

Nope.

You can not use a broken disc during the round. If you break a disc during the round you can still carry it,just can't use it.

If a golfer runs out of balls (which he limited to the number he can bring), he is DQed. In Disc Golf, a guy can bring as many discs as he wants and there is no rule as to adding discs to a bag to replace a disc or for any other reason during a round.



WRONG! From the USGA website:


Rule 5

Maximum number of Balls

Q. What is the maximum number of balls I can have in my bag or use during the stipulated round?

A. The Rules of Golf do not place a limit on the number of balls that can be carried or used during the round.

Rule 5

What if I run out of Golf Balls?

Q. If a player runs out of golf balls during a round, may he borrow a ball from another player?

A. Yes. There is nothing in the Rules of Golf that prohibits a player from borrowing a golf ball from an opponent or fellow-competitor. A player who runs out of balls may get a new supply from any source, provided he does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7) in the process. Although golf balls are part of a player`s equipment, the only type of equipment that the Rules limit the borrowing of is clubs Rule 4-4(Decision 5-1/5)





I will never watch Tin Cup the same way again... I always thought he would be screwed if he didn't get that last ball over. Turns out he could have just borrowed one from his buddy, Sonny Crockett/Nash Bridges.

Actually, are we sure there isn't a PGA rule that limits the number of balls that can be carried/used? I can see the USGA not having limits, but for the PGA tour there might be stricter standards.

You sure can !!!! Just can not be a broken or cracked disc. You can add or subtract whatever amount you want , just make sure others in your group know it's your disc being thrown. If you borrow someone elses disc , the group should also know that your using a specific disc being thrown with someone else's name , in case they think your playing someone else's disc !!!!!! Know what I mean !!!! ;)

I have seen guys go back to their car and add and subtract discs , no problem.

My only Issue on the amount of disc's being carried is while playing Disc Golf on a Ball Golf course.

I think the number is 14 discs only. Read this on a Fly 18 Score card. This maybe only on specific Ball Golf courses though.

Actually, are we sure there isn't a PGA rule that limits the number of balls that can be carried/used? I can see the USGA not having limits, but for the PGA tour there might be stricter standards.



PGA rules DO limit the number of golf balls you can carry in your bag...I believe it's 12 balls, but I will double check.

I was wrong, the max number of balls you can carry is 16...once your out of balls you are disqualified.

If DG was like BG you would not have the option of switching discs on a hole. The only way you could switch to a different disc is if your disc was damaged or cut and you may only switch if your fellow competitor approves it. :D

You can not use a broken disc during the round. If you break a disc during the round you can still carry it,just can't use it.





correct, but you must also let the rest of your group know you are carring a broken disc for the rest of the round

the max number of balls you can carry is 16...once your out of balls you are disqualified.




I knew I was right!

This topic comes up very frequently. Dave F. is in fact illegal in some cases. The first time this topic came up I started collecting footage to look at the issue. Most players are in fact legal, or close enough, looking frame to frame, that you can't tell. Feldberg is beyond the pale. Often enough, his lead foot is well clear of his marker before release (caveat, I only had 6 shots of Dave jump putting and only three were clearly discernable. In all three cases on a frame to frame basis he was illegal).

I also looked at footage of Des, Ricco, Barry, and a number of other top pros. Looking at the footage straight up I was always convinced they were illegal. On a frame to frame basis they were almost always legal.

The real problem lies in the fact that you just can't tell, and in a tournament you'd never know unless you had a camera. A rule that is unenforcable, that is the eye can't judge, seems to be a bad one. So, even though most jump putts are probably legal, the rule should (IMO) be changed.

If DG was like BG you would not have the option of switching discs on a hole. The only way you could switch to a different disc is if your disc was damaged or cut and you may only switch if your fellow competitor approves it. :D



It would be similar IF in Ball Golf you ONLY could use 1 club as well..
:p

If a player turns in a wrong score card in golf, he is DQed, not penalized 2 strokes.



That is correct.


Upthread it was pointed out that this is NOT correct. If you turn in a higher score than what you shot, you keep it. If you turn in a lower score, you are DQd.

The disc golf penalty used to be 4 or 6 six strokes for an incorrent score card. I guess there were so many incorrect score cards that the penalty was eased up. :p

This topic comes up very frequently. Dave F. is in fact illegal in some cases. The first time this topic came up I started collecting footage to look at the issue. Most players are in fact legal, or close enough, looking frame to frame, that you can't tell. Feldberg is beyond the pale. Often enough, his lead foot is well clear of his marker before release (caveat, I only had 6 shots of Dave jump putting and only three were clearly discernable. In all three cases on a frame to frame basis he was illegal).



While I was recording the commentary for Skylands with Steve Brinster, there were many times with many of the players that Steve would think that they foot faulted. Upon frame by frame inspection, no foot fault, across the board, even with Dave's putts (this is only Skylands 06 footage I am talking about, I know nothing about any other videos).

Freddy - WRONG!
MTL - STILL WRONG!

From PDGATour.com (Pruitt is PGA TOUR Tournament Official Dillard Pruitt):


QUESTION: Is there a limit to the number of balls a PGA TOUR player can have in his bag during a tournament? James Burdette

PRUITT: James, there is nothing in the Rules that limits the number of golf balls that can be carried by a player or his caddie. Thanks for the question.

This topic comes up very frequently. Dave F. is in fact illegal in some cases. The first time this topic came up I started collecting footage to look at the issue. Most players are in fact legal, or close enough, looking frame to frame, that you can't tell. Feldberg is beyond the pale. Often enough, his lead foot is well clear of his marker before release (caveat, I only had 6 shots of Dave jump putting and only three were clearly discernable. In all three cases on a frame to frame basis he was illegal).



While I was recording the commentary for Skylands with Steve Brinster, there were many times with many of the players that Steve would think that they foot faulted. Upon frame by frame inspection, no foot fault, across the board, even with Dave's putts (this is only Skylands 06 footage I am talking about, I know nothing about any other videos).



This doesn't surprise me. Dave is an accomplished player. It is entirely possible that he has adjusted his jump putt since I did my analysis.

Like all good athletes, Pro disc golfers time their actions to get the best benefit, legally.

I have had this talk with Dave. In his early days out on tour, he was given alot of crap about his jump putt. He has since modified it to be completely legal. I have seen that putt at its best, and I sometimes wish that he was doing something illegal just so he would quit making 65 footers. Is making it look too easy illegal?

That's what Dave Feldberg is!

Jump-putts are perfectly legit.

If you can jump-putt from 10m and out, why couldn't you jump into the circle?

I love the jump-putt. Go practice it...or not. KL

The problem lies in judging those on the edge. Yes, an accomplished player will hit it right say 99% of the time. Even an Am might hit it right 70% of the time. But you'll never know because it's too hard to call.

Let's take the case of Dave Feldberg. Early in his career he was making illegal putts. How many per round? In those rounds where he had illegal putts, by how many strokes did he win or place over other players that had no illegal putts?

The fact is that in this sport, one shot can be the difference. Soooo, how much money did Dave win that he wouldn't have if those shots had been called? How many other cases are there?

When you're talking about money, especially in a sport that is seen as gambling in some states, you have to be careful about this kind of thing.

A rule is a bad rule when tournament outcomes are in question.

I stand corrected. :o

Was it a rule in the past?

Let's take the case of Dave Feldberg. Early in his career he was making illegal putts.




How could you possibly know this?

Let's take the case of Dave Feldberg. Early in his career he was making illegal putts.




How could you possibly know this?

By looking at the video. Feldberg began playing after the invention of video. Back when disc golf TV was on, they caught a ot of illegal jump putts. And it is not just Feldberg. Pretty much everyone who gets airborn throws from the air some of the time.

Calling a jump putt is like calling a charge in basketball or a fumble versus an incomplete pass in football. It is not easy to call the close ones. Since our game depends on the players calling the rules, I really like Dave's D.'s idea of making the rule on jump putts be based on where you finally demonstrate balance, rather than the timing of the hand and foot.

I say just open up the circle to 20 meters, or more!!! A good enough player shouldn't NEED to jump from that close to the pin. :D

Let's take the case of Dave Feldberg. Early in his career he was making illegal putts.




How could you possibly know this?

By looking at the video. Feldberg began playing after the invention of video. Back when disc golf TV was on, they caught a ot of illegal jump putts. And it is not just Feldberg. Pretty much everyone who gets airborn throws from the air some of the time.

Calling a jump putt is like calling a charge in basketball or a fumble versus an incomplete pass in football. It is not easy to call the close ones. Since our game depends on the players calling the rules, I really like Dave's D.'s idea of making the rule on jump putts be based on where you finally demonstrate balance, rather than the timing of the hand and foot.



I think the charge camparison is apt. If you can't tell for sure, you have a problem. I agree, Dave's suggestion is a good one.

Let's take the case of Dave Feldberg. Early in his career he was making illegal putts.




How could you possibly know this?

By looking at the video. Feldberg began playing after the invention of video. Back when disc golf TV was on, they caught a ot of illegal jump putts. And it is not just Feldberg. Pretty much everyone who gets airborn throws from the air some of the time.

Calling a jump putt is like calling a charge in basketball or a fumble versus an incomplete pass in football. It is not easy to call the close ones. Since our game depends on the players calling the rules, I really like Dave's D.'s idea of making the rule on jump putts be based on where you finally demonstrate balance, rather than the timing of the hand and foot.



Can you back this up with some video, please?

I say just open up the circle to 20 meters, or more!!! A good enough player shouldn't NEED to jump from that close to the pin. :D



Because you don't jump putt :D

I would like to know how many people can pitch putt from 60+ ft.

Anyone have any video of the past 5 Open champs jump putting? Not sure it's a good throw to use versus alternatives at any distance. I'm not against jump putting and am glad to see those playing against me using them and blowing past the basket more than the ones they make.

Anyone have any video of the past 5 Open champs jump putting? Not sure it's a good throw to use versus alternatives at any distance. I'm not against jump putting and am glad to see those playing against me using them and blowing past the basket more than the ones they make.



That's because you play with those old guys. oh and you also play down with the AMs. :D

That's because you play with those old guys. oh and you also play down with the AMs.



Even if they could do it, they're smart enough not to. That's one way they become old guy players is not overloading their knees when younger. At 958, my days playing for merch were brief last year except for Mid-Nats. Maybe if we get the Expert division...

That's because you play with those old guys. oh and you also play down with the AMs.



Even if they could do it, they're smart enough not to. That's one way they become old guy players is not overloading their knees when younger. At 958, my days playing for merch were brief last year except for Mid-Nats. Maybe if we get the Expert division...



I'm not sure that's true. I don't have much of Barry or Ken but I've got footage of Rico, Dez, Feldberg, and many others.

However, I'd say that my impression is that most of these guys aren't really counting on making the shot...

I don't have much of Barry or Ken



Perhaps as much footage as there is of them throwing forehands? :eek:

I think if your regular putt is already a "lock" from 30 feet in like Feldberg and Rico, it might make sense to use a jump putt for either safe (uphill behind basket, second to putt in dubs when your partner is under basket) or necessary (last shot to win), I haven't seen the benefit relative to other higher arching putts or layups that secure getting down in no more than 2 shots from the jump putt location.

I would love to see some video of an accomplished 'jump putter' actually throwing without a plant foot on the ground, if anyone has any links to footage. I am a jump putter and don't understand how it is even possible to generate more power without a foot on the ground.

I would love to see some video of an accomplished 'jump putter' actually throwing without a plant foot on the ground, if anyone has any links to footage. I am a jump putter and don't understand how it is even possible to generate more power without a foot on the ground.



I am fairly certain that every jump putter starts his snap with his foot on the ground. The problem is, the disc has to have left his hand before his foot comes off the ground. With a walking type jump, like Feldburg uses, his foot is more likely to still be on the ground when the disc is out of his hand, as opposed to a quick jump.

I'm not against jump putting and am glad to see those playing against me using them and blowing past the basket more than the ones they make.



That is funny because jump putting is MUCH safer for me. Ya can still arc it ya know...

Another thread talks about straddle jumping which I would guess is easier to execute with a higher arc than the foot forward putt we usually think of as a jump putt.

Good point. I am a stradle jumper, and it is very lofty and safe!

Good point. I am a stradle jumper, and it is very lofty and safe!



I kinda do this, too, but with minimal jumping. From outside 50' or so, I will kinda throw myself forward to get more weight shift and step forward , but I don't really "jump." I definitely don't jump like Barry. He seems to jump more up than he does out .

The jump putt is actually a pretty cool shot. We've slowed down in video some of the better jump putters, including Dave Feloburg and Cam Todd. The jump part of the throw on most good jump putters is a follow-through. Even then, it's difficult to tell sometimes even by slowing it down on video, if the disc is out of the hand before the foot leaves the ground. The point is: who cares? If it's that indiscernable, then any advantage gained by the thrower is neglible. Plus, I think it's a cool shot to watch.

Chap

The jump putt is actually a pretty cool shot. We've slowed down in video some of the better jump putters, including Dave Feloburg and Cam Todd. The jump part of the throw on most good jump putters is a follow-through. Even then, it's difficult to tell sometimes even by slowing it down on video, if the disc is out of the hand before the foot leaves the ground. The point is: who cares? If it's that indiscernable, then any advantage gained by the thrower is neglible. Plus, I think it's a cool shot to watch.

Chap



I love jump putting!!!

Especially in Playoffs!!! :D:D:D