Hello there,

First and foremost, what's up with you guys!! 2007 tournaments will make it look great this year!! ;)

All right! Secondly, I do not want to make a big deal of that. Just a friendly information. My friend just told me that he would like to play any SoCal tournaments this year. I encouraged him to join because it is fun to play and learn from experience players. Being socialize with them and enjoy. I had fun last year as my first year.

Unfortunately, my friend was upset with tournament director recently because TD neglected him with no explanation why he got 2 strokes penalty. TD didn't give a **** and disrespected about his request of an explanation. My friend felt so cheated and upset about the scorecard. I was disappointed, too because I told my friend that SoCal is fun to play. I want to have more Deaf players to join but they are afraid of some hearing people who don't give a **** about Deaf. Whats going on? I know some of hearing dislike me because they know that I can beat them. I do not care because it's all about the game, not because I am Deaf. I know that some of hearing do not like to lose to handicap players. For your information, Deaf is not a HANDICAP, period! Get some respect! I want to have Deaf players to grow more in SoCal. Now, I look at that person of TD, he made me sick to my stomach. I do not want to point or name of TD but in the future, if Deaf players want to ask some questions, answer them and help them to learn about the rules or the games. Please do not neglect or have lousy attitude to Deaf players. Come on! Deaf is a human being like hearing people execpted cannot hear.

At last, I want to let you know that being socialize with Deaf is fun to hang out. Help them to grow and learn.

Best of lucks this year! :D

~tan

Don't let one TD one time spoil your deaf disc golfin' fun. :)

Get your buddy to come out to the next couple of SoCal tourneys and I'm sure he will have a good time.

There must be another side; perhaps your friend just couldn't get a satisfactory answer. Does he NOW understand the rule? That's the responsibility of the Player, foremost. But if he didn't understand WHICH rule was violated, yeah, that would be frustrating.

....I noticed Tan played Eldo last year; I'm also awaiting an entry from Jeffrey Roberts, aka deafdiscgolf27....if you, signers, or any other deaf disc golfers have questions about the Tournament I am running in Long Beach, CA, please use my e-mail, slo11@mail.com.

I hope your friend will play another So Cal event. Rhett and Slo are running the next two events, and they are good people.

I apologize that the rule in question was not explained more thoroughly to your friend. Sometimes as a TD, it can be difficult to take the time to explain a rules violation to a new player who may not be familiar with the rules.

If possible, give your friend a copy of the rules to carry in his bag for the next event.

I hope your friend will play another So Cal event. Rhett and Slo are running the next two events, and they are good people.




are these the same rhett and slo that i think you are speaking of? :eek:

:D

one of the ways i have used as a td is to have the player write the question down on paper and then you can answer him on paper as well as point out the rule in the rulebook..

i have td'ed and helped at events here in georgia with deaf disc golfers and it seems to eliminate any confusion...

the deaf disc golf guys at augusta worlds were awesome and always helpful and wanting to learn more about the sport..

keith

Of course, I always carry some blank notes in my bag to communicate with hearing players. Love to chat with hearing players :D

Ok, my friend used one player as American Sign Language interpreter and tried to communicate with a TD. It was a good advantage because it would save time than writing down on note and TD still didnt give an explanation. It was really immature of him being not giving an explanation.

Yes, my friend knows the rules of game but the point was the scorecard which he got 2 strokes penalty. Of course, I would like to know why if I was in his shoe. For example, he counted the score and got 68 then signed his name. The next day, he was puzzled that he got 74 (2 strokes penalty included). He looked at the scorecard and saw the erase markers on his score. Supposed he got two "3" on pars then someone erased and put on a "4" then got a "5" on another hole. It should be 71 something then add 2 strokes penatly and would be 73? Why or where did my friend got a 74? Of course, he wanted to know why and I was concerned, too because it sound like to me that the last person of 4 players who carried to give the scorecard to TD, he must had done something that cheated my friend. It is not an honor system, though. It would be nice if TD would check it up and perhaps had an explanation for a few seconds instead of neglect or disrespect my friend.

I want to make clear with you, I do not point at every TD at any event. I was talking about recently which upset my friend. Like I said before, I do not want to make a big deal out of that, just a friendly information. No worries. Of course, I know Rhett and Slo. They are cool guys! I always enjoy playing with Rhett when we played in Advance last year :DWould be nice if I play with Slo but he plays in different division, though. ~Slo, yes my registration form is on mail. Hope I can make it before it fills up fast ;)

Looking forward to play at El Do Open and EIEIO 2K7 soon after I finish at the Memorial in Arizona :D

~tan

Yeah, I'm in the 'Retired' division....Jeffrey's entry is 'in the mail', as well, so Welcome; anyone else?

Did you save the "schedule" portion of the Flyer?
Have you found the 'East Area Map' @ SoCalDiscGolf.org?!?

Tan
Reading your story reminds me of some confusion at a local event regarding the totals marked on the score card. I think 3 groups put their handicap (+3) instead of total score (57). These groups were docked 2 strokes. There was a lot of confusion and a lot of bickering. I did not know that rule until I saw people experience it.
I'm not sure if this helps...

Anyway, I feel disc golf is open to everyone. It is one of the few sports that I have played (and been somewhat successful at) that accepts all walks of life, whoever you are.
My recommendation to your friend is to not let one TD ruin such a great sport.

I have spoken to an impartial eyewitness to this event as well as the TD in question.


It would be nice if TD would check it up and perhaps had an explanation for a few seconds instead of neglect or disrespect my friend.




First, the TD and the assistant TD went over the problem with the player at length for close to 10 minutes before the start of the third round. There were two interpreters helping. The player in question believed that someone had changed his score after he signed his scorecard. While the TD and Assistant could see one score had been changed from a 3 to a 4P, there were no other signs of changed scores. The card was turned in with a signed score of 68. The actual score was 72. The player ended up with a 74 (correct score plus 2). Even if the score that was obviously changed could have been corrected, the final score would still have been wrong by three strokes. This player definitely understood the two stroke penalty as this same player took a two stroke penalty for turning in an incorrect scorecard at the Ice Bowl just last month.

For the record, this player is not new to the game. He has been actively playing So Cal events for at least two years. He was even one of the wonderful volunteers at Pro Worlds in Augusta last summer.

This player is basically accusing one of the four other players on his card of changing the individual hole scores, although there is no evidence to back it up and no apparent motive. Every player on this card initialled their scores, including the disgruntled player. This player was very close to last place in the 27 player field even before taking the two penalty strokes. It is not like the other players would benefit by altering his score. All four of the players on his card finished in the bottom five of the event.

It is unfortunate that this player is badmouthing this So Cal Series TD. The TD did his best to explain the situation using two interpreters. The witness confirms that the TD did not treat this player with any disrespect what-so-ever. Any perceived bias because the player is deaf, is not founded in the least. The TD said he stroked at least 10 other (hearing) people that round for turning in incorrect scorecards. This dissatisfied player did not like the outcome, withdrew from the event and now he is dissing a long-standing So Cal TD.

I hope this player will put his hurt feelings behind him and realize the TD was following the rules. The TD DID take the time and effort to explain the scoring issue. The TD will be making a note of this incident in his PDGA report.

I also hope that all the deaf disc golfers in So Cal realize how much So Cal DGA values their participation in the game. So Cal DGA does want to encourage deaf disc golfers and hopes they will not form the wrong opinion about the So Cal DGA or this longstanding TD because of one player's experience.

Thanks for the clarify this.

Yes, my friend had been playing several SoCal events in past two years and he had been volunteered at Pro World 2006 at Augusta.

I just talked to my friend and had him read your post. I am writing this as intpereter of what he wanted to say: He said that he never say badmouth to SoCal TD since he was a tournament director for National Deaf Disc Golf Tournament in Augusta last 2005 and he knew Brian Graham before. So, he does not have a gut to spit like that. He said that TD might misread his gesture or his expression. Also, he never complain about 2 strokes penalty at the Ice Bowl last month. He had no aware about that since he knew that TD of the Ice Bowl before, too. At last, he said the reason he withdrew during the final round because he was upset again that someone hit his car on the parking lot. Anyway, that's not the point but communicate is the key where we can understand each other. Have patience. Doesn't matter if a player knows the rules or not. So, there is no upset or drama at all.

*Tan here* I think I agree with him. Help would be appreciated, my disc golf friends :) He is one of my good friend for a long time, though.

I will be seeing you at the next event and see who will kick some #$*&$!! :D

.... Anyway, that's not the point but communicate is the key where we can understand each other. Have patience. Doesn't matter if a player knows the rules or not. So, there is no upset or drama at all.



Just so everything's clear, and we're communicating properly, it DOES matter if the player knows the rules. It is the responsibility of every Player to know the rules, and to make the appropriate calls on violations. This is the second thing out of the Tournament Director's mouth, at the Players' Meeting. Not-to-mention, it is also proper etiquette, to know an observe our Sport's rules.

....the [each] Players' Meeting is probably THE most important time to have an Interpreter/Reader present; that's not a time [addressing a Crowd] for the notes-on-paper approach.

Yes, it is important to have an interpreter present but for your info, it is not easy to have an interpreter present at the event all the time because it is expensive to pay the interpreter. Average $80-100 per hour. Players' meeting plus award meeting would cost almost $200. Ouch! I bet that SoCal event cannot afford to pay to have the interpreter like that. Lucky for us that one player who is a CODA ( Child Of Deaf Adult ), he always attends to many SoCal events and always interpret for us. Well, he may be not attending to next SoCal events: El Do Open and EIEIO, too. What can I do is, talk to TD or some players on a note before tee off. All they need to communicate is: point at where hole will be OBs, mandos, par 3 or 4 and tell us if there is 2-meter or not. That's it. Easy to communicate, right? Amen! ;)

Megan is taking ASL in school, so I am giving her a copy of my player meeting notes for EIEIO to practice beforehand, and she will try to sign the info during the meeting. It might be a little rough, but hopefully it helps.

So Cal does have the resources to provide interpreters for player's meetings. Deaf players should let me know when an interpreter is needed and I can help organize it or at least arrange for payment when necessary.

Tan - please PM me with an email address or contact number for interpreter services so So Cal will be able to assist the deaf players at upcoming So Cal events.

That's sweet to know that Megan is taking an ASL class at school! Looking forward to that! Rhett, you should take an ASL class, too! Winks! :D

Hokey smoke; I had no idea it was that expensive! Much blessing to this one, unnamed Helper....that's a whole lot to give, in the way of service.

....I couldn't afford anything near that $$ amount, but I am good for a "Volunteer" pack, which will have Event 11 Items not available to most. One prob: Pro Megan is on one course, these Fellows on the other. Any ASL people available for AMs?!? Perhaps it could be earlier? [??]

Tan, I can answer several things now: YES 2-meters both courses; on-or-beyond the pathways=OB, both courses. The "Par" notion really isn't relevant, as the # of throws PER HOLE is what's recorded. But for reference, Eldo=everything 3; par 54 . Horseshoe has several Par 4's; Par will be closer to 66-67. I'm hoping to get all the Horseshoe info online, this week. [I just walked the layout today; it is a very challenging, often tight, yet balanced and 'fair' Layout. OB really only affects horrible throws.]

Rhett,

Good news, the CODA name is Jonathan Gleicher, he will be attending to EIEIO 2K7. Megan can watch and learn from him :D

SoCal: My best suggestion for having an interpreter present at any SoCal event: Considering, Jonathan doesn't have to pay for new member of SoCal and doesn't have to pay for any event to present as interpreter if any Deaf will attend to play. I think it is a sweet deal, though, because it is cheaper than pay $80-100 an hour. Remember, he comes to play, not interpreter but he always volunteer if any Deaf comes to play and I am sure he will be appreciated. :cool: