Currently I am throwing a 166g beat up Star Sidewinder for backhand rollers and trick shots, but I am thinking about trying to find something from Discraft to fill this niche since Innova constantly changes molds based on the latest plastic they have purchased. Discraft is the most reliable I have heard about as far as consistency goes, so I thought that I would ask about Discraft.

Also wondering what compares to:

Star TL
Proline Monster (though I may just hang on to these since I have several backups and they age slowly).
Rhyno (thinking about trying out the Banger GT S)

Post your suggestions! Also, I would be willing to trade for used discs if I think the suggestion sounds right.

Thanks.

Express new is very understable and makes a good roller right out of the box.

SW = Xpress, XL, or beat up Wildcat.

As for the TL, a new XL(although it will be slower than the TL), Tracker, or beat X-Avenger.

Monster = a predator or Flick

Rhyno = CryZtal Challenger which are pretty overstable.

I've thrown all the discs mentioned at one time or another and throw mostly Discraft.

Sidewinder = none. If I had to choose I'd pick an XL. I don't know if there's an ESP XL yet . . . . should be if there isn't. The first run Z-Wildcats were probably the closest thing to a Sidewinder but then we'll start another discussion about the inconsistancies of Discraft. Today's Z-Wildcats never make it to what the first runs did. I still have some 1st runs although I'm beginning to think I'll never throw them again since I'm hooked on the Surge . . . but the Surge is more a Wraith than a Sidewinder -- doesn't have that straight flight that a Sidewinder does.

Star TL = none. Again -- probably a Tracker.

Monster = none. Again, if I had to I'd chose the Predator. It's the best disc Discraft makes. It does the same thing everytime but it's flight doesn't really match the Monster's but the Monster has much more variation to the molds/plastic than the Predator does.

Rhyno = none. Discraft doesn't have a Rhyno. Throw the Rhyno.

I know -- all the wonks will now tell me how crazy I am . . . c'est la message board.

TL- Z XL
Monster- Z Flick or Z Predator
Rhyno-Banger GT
Sidewinder-Spectra or ESP Avenger SS

The Spectra and the SS avenger are good examples for a SW too.

So far it looks like were all on the same page or two. :D

"X"-X'Press
Perhaps a Tracker is similar to a TL...?
Banger GT for your Rhyno...?

I like a Banger GT a lot more than a rhyno for putter drives, and a X tracker fits the bill for a TL pretty well, if not better.

For the TL, definately try a tracker. X-tracker is great for turnovers. Z tracker is a bit more overstable.

I would agree with Paul that it's going to be difficult for you to replace those particular discs you mentioned. Especially the Proline Monster... why would you want to replace those anyway?

Sidewinder = Spectra (sort of)
Star TL = ESP Tracker (both are more overstable in this plastic)
Proline Monster - is not even close to a Pred or Flick
Rhyno (champ?) = Drone, sort of

I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm going to predict that you'll be happier sticking with the Innova drivers

Innova for overstable drivers. Discraft for understable drivers.
Discraft for mids.
Gway for putters.

Sidewinder: X Wildcat, Spectra, or a beat X Avenger
Star TL: X or beat Z Tracker, Z XL
Proline Monster: Z Xtra
Rhyno: ESP Banger GT, or CryZtal Challenger

Currently I am throwing a 166g beat up Star Sidewinder for backhand rollers and trick shots, but I am thinking about trying to find something from Discraft to fill this niche since Innova constantly changes molds based on the latest plastic they have purchased. Discraft is the most reliable I have heard about as far as consistency goes, so I thought that I would ask about Discraft.

Also wondering what compares to:

Star TL
Proline Monster (though I may just hang on to these since I have several backups and they age slowly).
Rhyno (thinking about trying out the Banger GT S)

Post your suggestions! Also, I would be willing to trade for used discs if I think the suggestion sounds right.

Thanks.



Stop thinking.
Nothing beats or compares to a well broken in Sidewinder. Nothing against Discraft, but I wasn't able to find anything that compared to the Sidewinder from them.
And as far as consistancy goes, i don't buy that marketing gobledeegoop. If a Star Sidewinder is working for you now, get another one and break it in. I haven't found any inconsistancies with Innova discs once you decide what plastic you want to use for a specific mold.
For example ... if you buy a Z Tracker, and an X Tracker ... they are going to fly different. If you buy a CH Sidewinder, and a Star Sidewinder, they are going to fly different. But if you buy two Star Sidewinders, they will fly the same if they are broken in the same.
This goes for any disc, from any manufacturer, in any plastic, in any mold. ;)

Stop thinking.



LOL.


don't knock a DG brother for wanting to try something different. You never know, there might be the perfect driver for him waiting on the shelf, but if he doesn't try it, he'll still be treading water.

Stop thinking.



LOL.


don't knock a DG brother for wanting to try something different. You never know, there might be the perfect driver for him waiting on the shelf, but if he doesn't try it, he'll still be treading water.



Yeah.. but if its not broke don't fix it!!

You might not know it's broken if you never try to fix it :D

But seriously, I traded in my CFR TL and beat 10x TB for Trackers, and haven't looked back. Best straight to understable driver out there, and the X beats in very consistently, so it's easy to carry 3 different stabilities with 1 mold.

For example ... if you buy a Z Tracker, and an X Tracker ... they are going to fly different. If you buy a CH Sidewinder, and a Star Sidewinder, they are going to fly different. But if you buy two Star Sidewinders, they will fly the same if they are broken in the same.
This goes for any disc, from any manufacturer, in any plastic, in any mold. ;)



The problem is in a few years when I need a new Star Sidewinder to break in and Innova has switched to yet another plastic manufacturer and, as a result, decided to change the mold in order to keep the disc "as they think it should be." The problem is that if you change the mold you change the grip. Even if the disc flies the same, it is not the same disc in the hand. Examples of mold changes to my knowledge:

Monster - has old L, X, and new L
Gator - Pretty sure the Star G is different
Gremlin - X v. L
Eagle - EL v. EX
Beast - retooled in Star

Now, I realize that some discs, like the TL, fall under this, too. But, why is it that only some of these discs get marked differently?

Have there been problems like this with Discraft? I know they pulled the Torq due to supposed inconsistencies, but has there been any similar problem in the past?

For example ... if you buy a Z Tracker, and an X Tracker ... they are going to fly different. If you buy a CH Sidewinder, and a Star Sidewinder, they are going to fly different. But if you buy two Star Sidewinders, they will fly the same if they are broken in the same.
This goes for any disc, from any manufacturer, in any plastic, in any mold. ;)



The problem is in a few years when I need a new Star Sidewinder to break in and Innova has switched to yet another plastic manufacturer and, as a result, decided to change the mold in order to keep the disc "as they think it should be." The problem is that if you change the mold you change the grip. Even if the disc flies the same, it is not the same disc in the hand. Examples of mold changes to my knowledge:

Monster - has old L, X, and new L
Gator - Pretty sure the Star G is different
Gremlin - X v. L
Eagle - EL v. EX
Beast - retooled in Star

Now, I realize that some discs, like the TL, fall under this, too. But, why is it that only some of these discs get marked differently?

Have there been problems like this with Discraft? I know they pulled the Torq due to supposed inconsistencies, but has there been any similar problem in the past?



Stop thinking! ;) ;) ;)
Seriously, all good questions. But I think you're making it way more complicated than it is, and I don't see what the problem is with any of the discs you listed.
I'm sure a lot of people were digging the MRV or MRX a few years ago. They aren't made anymore, but they have been modified and by new names, are available as the Wasp, Buzzz or Drone.
The Beast was retooled to make it less like an Orc. It's a very different disc than the Orc now, and can be a great disc if you want a more high speed turnover than an Orc, but more fade. Is this a problem? No.
The Star Gator doesn't have a bead (L=Less Stable). But it's not called a Guzzz. Is this a problem? Nope. Do I wish they made a Star Gator with a bead? Yes!
Anyway ... these are not problems ... these are corrections to the Innova lineup that make it better.
I don't have anything against Discraft. I have hundreds of Discraft discs. Are they better than Innova because of the "problems" you say they have. No way.

They are changes to their production that makes them more desireable marketable to rec players, who make up an overwhelming portion of the DG community.
I miss Dx eagle-x (the only make L now).


and for the earlier comment saying innova for overstable and discraft for under. . . that seems to be #$*&$! backward to what alot of people think. Discraft has much more overstable molds and fewer understable.

Stop thinking! ;) ;) ;)



I can't think anymore!

No for real, all of the manufacturers today have a solid line up with a mold (in whatever plastic ESP,Z,X,ProD,CE, Champion, Dx, Star, Pro, H, E, LL :) ) for everyone. Once you find that special disc(or 12) buy a lot of them. That way, more than likely, you are getting the same run made under the same conditions.

But to answer PirateDiscGolf's original question(s), read the recommended molds in the previous posts. :D

For example ... if you buy a Z Tracker, and an X Tracker ... they are going to fly different. If you buy a CH Sidewinder, and a Star Sidewinder, they are going to fly different. But if you buy two Star Sidewinders, they will fly the same if they are broken in the same.
This goes for any disc, from any manufacturer, in any plastic, in any mold. ;)



The problem is in a few years when I need a new Star Sidewinder to break in and Innova has switched to yet another plastic manufacturer and, as a result, decided to change the mold in order to keep the disc "as they think it should be." The problem is that if you change the mold you change the grip. Even if the disc flies the same, it is not the same disc in the hand. Examples of mold changes to my knowledge:

Monster - has old L, X, and new L
Gator - Pretty sure the Star G is different
Gremlin - X v. L
Eagle - EL v. EX
Beast - retooled in Star

Now, I realize that some discs, like the TL, fall under this, too. But, why is it that only some of these discs get marked differently?

Have there been problems like this with Discraft? I know they pulled the Torq due to supposed inconsistencies, but has there been any similar problem in the past?



Stop thinking! ;) ;) ;)
Seriously, all good questions. But I think you're making it way more complicated than it is, and I don't see what the problem is with any of the discs you listed.
I'm sure a lot of people were digging the MRV or MRX a few years ago. They aren't made anymore, but they have been modified and by new names, are available as the Wasp, Buzzz or Drone.
The Beast was retooled to make it less like an Orc. It's a very different disc than the Orc now, and can be a great disc if you want a more high speed turnover than an Orc, but more fade. Is this a problem? No.
The Star Gator doesn't have a bead (L=Less Stable). But it's not called a Guzzz. Is this a problem? Nope. Do I wish they made a Star Gator with a bead? Yes!
Anyway ... these are not problems ... these are corrections to the Innova lineup that make it better.
I don't have anything against Discraft. I have hundreds of Discraft discs. Are they better than Innova because of the "problems" you say they have. No way.



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