The road is O/B. It is an asphalt road with no curb. Over time (probably over years) dirt/sand have encroached upon the road surface and grass/clovers have grow on the dirt/sand. Question is a Discers disc lands next to the road touching no visible asphalt, one Discer argues it out because after kick the dirt/sand about 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick to uncover the asphalt road the road surface looks to start 10 to 15 inches in from the visible line which is not a straight line down the road under the dirt/sand. What are everyone�s thoughts about this situation? Does one need to kick the dirt to find the asphalt line every time a disc lands need to the road (we have about 2 miles of asphalt road that comes into play during a round?

unless it is marked in some other fashion (string, paint, etc) i would say yes you need to kick away to find the actual asphalt line.

Doesn't make much difference for casual play. For tournaments, either get out the power edger, convince the Park people to do it or you'll need to mark it some other way with paint or string. Sometimes there's a cable or other type of fence located further in from the asphalt that can be used for events even though it might cut down the inbounds area by several feet compared with regular play.

The way I have ALWAYS seen this handled is:

If the disc is touching at least 1 blade of grass, it is considered IN BOUNDS. I have even seen this enforced in the final 9 of a fairly large tournament. It was a similar situation where the OB road was actually dirt, so the OB line is not very straight. Scott Martin's disc was in the road but just barely touching the tip of 1 blade of grass, it was ruled in, then he hit the 35ft putt for a duece...

No PDGA Marshal worth their certification would ever call a disc IB if the full diameter is completely over asphalt/cement no matter how many blades of grass are extending over the asphalt/cement and under the disc. This bogus call by players cost me a potential spot in the semis at PW2005 when another player who did get in did not get the penalty.

It's definitely a much tougher call when there's not a sharp edge such as gravel or dirt roads. Benefit of the doubt to the player and a suggestion that TDs get those tricky areas marked better for events.

This situation has come up repeatedly at certain courses. Usually the TD makes some sort of announcement about the road, indicating it has questionable areas, they didn't mark them, etc. (as Chuck points out, poor planning on the TD's part).

Usually a few blades of grass do not count, whereas a clump of grass that is rooted in dirt (and IB) but spills onto the asphalt often times *does* pass for IB. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, just what has happend (in my experience).

Having witnessed several of these messy situations, I am a staunch advocate of painting/stringing lines along such areas. It has made me go so far as to sweep the road on our course (a fair amount), making sure it is clearly evident where the asphalt ends and the dirt starts. In other areas, I've done spray painting or strung tape. It's extra work, but I think it is needed.

When playing on other courses, I always give the player the benefit of the doubt--within reason. And therein lies the rub--we all of different views of what is reasonable.

Cheers,
Steve

This situation has come up repeatedly at certain courses. Usually the TD makes some sort of announcement about the road, indicating it has questionable areas, they didn't mark them, etc. (as Chuck points out, poor planning on the TD's part).

Usually a few blades of grass do not count, whereas a clump of grass that is rooted in dirt (and IB) but spills onto the asphalt often times *does* pass for IB. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, just what has happend (in my experience).

Having witnessed several of these messy situations, I am a staunch advocate of painting/stringing lines along such areas. It has made me go so far as to sweep the road on our course (a fair amount), making sure it is clearly evident where the asphalt ends and the dirt starts. In other areas, I've done spray painting or strung tape. It's extra work, but I think it is needed.

When playing on other courses, I always give the player the benefit of the doubt--within reason. And therein lies the rub--we all of different views of what is reasonable.

Cheers,
Steve



Word !!!! :D

No PDGA Marshal worth their certification would ever call a disc IB if the full diameter is completely over asphalt/cement no matter how many blades of grass are extending over the asphalt/cement and under the disc.



Agree! The situation came up in the reverse for two thrilled players at the Players Cup. The cartpaths on the Red Hawk are all in bounds. On some holes beyond the cart path is OB. The players had their discs 95% OB, with an edge over blades of grass that covered the cartpath. A few blades of grass growing over the path did not change the fact that the disc was on the path, and hence inbounds in this situation.

Even if the disc was mostly beyond the cart path with just a bit over the cart path, it would have still been IB. I'm not sure why it was such a close call?

just because at first glance it appeared that the disc was sitting entirely over grass. on closer inspection you could see that there was pavement underneath the grass that had grown over.