Does anybody know why Innova just doesn't release a mainstream Star or Champion Roc at an affordable price?

I mean, they've just about released every other disc in Star plastic...even the Skeeter, already. Why does it always have to be a fundraiser disc or a limited edition? I just don't get this. I would probably be more likely to throw a Roc if they just released it in their most durable plastic at an affordable price. I'm not a fan of the KC Pro Roc because it just feels to slick...same with the DX. I would love a Star or Champion Roc but I'm not about to spend $30 on a Roc or spend the time hunting forever on-line to find it at an affordable price. Instead, I'll just go and get an ESP Buzzz for $14 just about anywhere (if not cheaper). In my opinion Discraft just takes some of the guessing game out of their top midrange, and they make it more affordable to throw it in their best plastic. I can't help but feel like Innova is holding out on me...not offering the Roc in durable mainstream plastic. Just one of the many reasons I won't be throwing the Roc anytime soon. Many people say that you need to throw the Roc to shave strokes off your game...I'm all for trying it out, but Innova makes the Roc exploration way to complicated and expensive Once Innvoa releases the Roc in Star or Champion plastic available for the masses at $15, I'm there.

FYI, I didn't post this on the ask Dave D. thread because it is so dang huge and impossible to navigate.

Don't hold your breath.

FYI...the people who talk about Roc's shaving score totals aren't talking about champ/star rocs.

Plan a trip down to Rock Hill, SC for the USDGC's. The price goes to a great cause, expecially now will part of it helping out EDGE.

$25 isn't alot for a disc that will last as long as a ch/star disc will last. expecially when they fly as well as the roc does

: ) :

If you have thrown a Buzzz why would you want to throw a Roc anyways :D :D :D/

If you have thrown a Roc why would you throw a Buzz anyway?

To answer Big Mac's question, they won't because they don't have to and if they did, it would cut down on the money Innova makes off them for USDGC/EDGE. I agree, they do last a long time. rWc3523 :cool:

Personally, I still can't justify spending that much on a disc no matter how long it lasts. Most of the time a disc exits my bag due to entering a lake, river, snow bank, or disc eating bush/tree/weeds, not from over wear (because I throw primarily ESP & Star plastic). I do lose discs, and when I lose a $25 disc that is not easy to replace. Not to mention, it makes purchasing backups for practice just about impossible....$75-80 just to have 3 of the same disc to practice with...not to mention backups in case of loss, that's too much money for me.

I started playing disc golf because it offered all of the same great challenges and enjoyment of ball golf combined with an unequaled "affordability" For me, that price tag on discs is just a little too much.

From my point of view, Innova is using the Roc greedily. Rather than make it available in the best plastic at an affordable price, they release it in limited editions and as tournament FR discs to ultimately increase their income. They could make this disc available in the Star plastic just as easily as they have the Skeeter, but they're not...just to make a buck. That's not cool in my book.

I agree the Buzzz is a great disc and "takes the guessing game out". The Wasp is a great alternative too. I'm an innova fan and a Roc fan. Personaly I can throw a Roc slower and straighter accounting for 18 Roc aces. I have a Z-Buzzz and a ESP-Buzzz for Roc backups because of dependability, durability, availability, affordability and comfort in hand.

I think Limited Rocs in Premium plastics are a great idea. We want Disc Golf to be a main stream sport but we don't have sponsors yet. By offering a great disc at a premium price the Major manufacturers can be the "Title" sponsors of big tourneys. Discraft does it too with the Midnight Buzzz and the 2nd 1st Run Buzzz. We'll have to grow into a big sport. The Major Tournaments are getting really sweet mainly because of available cash. I like to play $20 tourneys but thats my realistic level, my heart is in the majors.

Collecting is a big part of our sport. A pricy Roc or Buzzz is an instant classic. The 2001 CE Rocs were $35. As for searching the net for the right disc, well we're still young. I live in Shreveport, a pretty big city. We have 5 courses. Academy Sports is the only vender and the selection is crappy (no roc or buzzz). The locol Pro sells discs from his trunk. Good selection but no Champ Roc or Midnight Buzz. BTW, In my bag; CFR Glo Firebird, CFR Glo Starfire, CFR TL and Champ Glo Roc.

From my point of view, Innova is using the Roc greedily. Rather than make it available in the best plastic at an affordable price, they release it in limited editions and as tournament FR discs to ultimately increase their income. They could make this disc available in the Star plastic just as easily as they have the Skeeter, but they're not...just to make a buck.



Innova's Roc and other CFR fundraiser program for major events has launched sponsorship cash to new levels in the past few years. Innova should be thanked not criticized for this INNOVAtive fundraising program. Innova makes no more money on these special tournament discs than they do on standard run discs. In fact, because of the effort to run the USDGC or coordinate these special programs with TDs of major events, they may actually make less money on these discs than the standard line they pump out.

You just need to look at the high payouts for the USDGC in the past several years to see the impact of the Rocs. Last year, the CFR Wraith raised tens of thousands for the Pro Worlds and it's well on the way to help our 2007 Pro Worlds. No other sponsor either inside the sport or outside the sport is likely to come close to the sponsorship dollars provided by Innova due to their special sponsor disc program.

Unfortunately, it still means our player are the ones providing the most sponsorship dollars for our big events and I would like to thank those players who support our events with their purchases. I can understand not wanting to use these more expensive discs for your regular bag. I don't use them as 'go to' discs. But it's fun having one or two in the bag to pull out once in a while to show you've indirectly helped provide a little support to building our pro tour.

I'm not a fan of the KC Pro Roc because it just feels to slick...same with the DX.



Does this include the newer DX plastic? I have one from this year's World's Biggest and it seems to be pretty grippy. Also, most people that throw Rocs around here want the hot stamped flat top or 'ching' Rocs.

As for myself, I throw the Wasp and Buzz for midranges. Discraft doesn't seem to tinker with molds nearly as much (if at all).

Also, I agree that it's important to keep raising money for these tournaments. Keeping the discs limited certainly helps this.

However, I was in the same situation when considering whether or not to throw the Roc. Everything in my bag was the higher end plastic, and I didn't want to start throwing the Roc if I couldn't get it in good plastic as well.

That being said, I agree with the statement that the people who are throwing Rocs are not talking about the limited edition ones but rather the cheaper ones. It seems to be one disc that I see people prefer the DX on, and not just because of price but because of how they break in.

Eh, I could be wrong.

I tend to agree that I think it is great that Innova and Discraft release special discs to help fund major tournaments. Without them could you imagine how much less the top pros would make from tourneys. I really don't think the USDGC would raise as much if they allowed any other kind or Roc to be sold. I think that it says a lot about the people at both manufacturers to be willing to take a hit in profits in order to help the tournaments and in turn the people that play. Everyone knows that Discraft could make more money off of a wide release of Midnight and 2nd 1st Run Buzzzes and Innova could definitely make money off of Champ or Star Rocs. But they choose to help out the sport as a whole instead so I say congratulations to both.

You want a star Roc? Try an MD-1 in the S-type plastic. $15.

i have wanted to try a roc for sometime now but the variations in the molds make it hard for me to decide. can anyone help shed some light for me on this subject? thanks

That being said, I agree with the statement that the people who are throwing Rocs are not talking about the limited edition ones but rather the cheaper ones. It seems to be one disc that I see people prefer the DX on, and not just because of price but because of how they break in.

Eh, I could be wrong.


No, I believe you're dead-on. I throw DX Rocs for just those reasons. I have three of them in the bag at all times, and a stack of them at home on reserve; all at different stages of wear just in case I lose Roc #2 from the bag, Roc #2 from the stack goes in and I don't miss a beat. I then grab a new DX Roc, add it to the stack at home, and start beating them up a little more to fill the hole left when I pulled Roc #2 into 'active duty'.

And the best part? DX Rocs are $8. :D


sleepy

I have some beat up DX Rocs which are priceless! The CE Rocs are nice because they don't beat up. Which leaves the rest of the Roc collection for seasoning purposes.

Hail DX mids and putters! Start your rotation system today!

If/when I lose my most beat-up Roc ('98), it would prolly be another year or two+ to adequately break one in with a similar flight. It turns... 3 DX Rocs in the bag...~20 backups rotating for the 2 more stable slots...and I hardly ever lose a Roc. In fact, the last one I 'lost' was impaled on a thorn tree.

I'm with you guys. I have a 2002 CE and a 2006 Star in my bag, along with a first run yellow Super Roc, along with a seasoned San Marino (depenable turnover), a 2004 Super Roc and a flat top full color DX. I also have another 1/2 doesn in reserve, including a 2005 CE, a couple more Sannies, an Ontario. Not to mentiona small stack of 11 time KC. Of course, there about 60-70 more Rocs stashed about the house, so I should have all I need until I can no longer play! ;) Then my kid will want them! rWc3523 :cool:

If/when I lose my most beat-up Roc ('98), it would prolly be another year or two+ to adequately break one in with a similar flight.



This is one reason why I don't like using a stable mold that is beat up for turnovers. For me, it makes alot more sense to throw an UNDERSTABLE mold like a comet for turnover shots. It kind of removes the ambiguity from the equation.

There will always be holes in any arguement, even logical ones...it just comes down to preferences, I guess. :D A Comet does not fly like this beat-to-crap Roc...
And, just like a beat-up putter......you know it better, cuz you beat it up! You don't go buy some other understable putter to replace it...you get to work on a new one.
For me, I've yet to like a candy mid or putter...I prefer DX/base plastics.
.02 // YMMV

i have wanted to try a roc for sometime now but the variations in the molds make it hard for me to decide. can anyone help shed some light for me on this subject? thanks



san marino, ontario, rancho are the places where the mold was changed from one degree or another. San Marino's are old(early 90's), Ontario's are old (mid 90's) Rancho rocs are what are currently being produced. for the sake of this post dont worry about sanny's and ontario's they'll just kill your bank account.

the modern rancho roc is what everyone throws now adays. the differences in the rancho are all about the different plastics they come in. DX, Ching., KC Pro, Pro, Champion, Star
DX-basic normal roc.
Ching- a dx roc that has a special stamp that flattens out the top.
KC Pro-stiff, domey. the different numbers refer to how many titles Climo had when that disc was molded. 8x are the oldest, 12x should be out soon. they are all fairly similar but some people swear by one type or the other, that's why the old ones cost so much.
Pro-Worlds fundraiser Roc, last made for the '05 worlds. not as stiff as the KC pro roc.
Champion-USDGC fundraiser Roc, several released every year. they cost more but they go to a good cause.
STAR-same as Champion.

it's really not as confusing as it sounds when you start paying attention to what is coming out. i recomend just picking up some DX, ching or KC Pro(depending on what feels best for yo) and work from there. your game will appreciate a roc.

: ) :

thanks for the info. i think i'll pick a few up this weekend along with a star FL.

From my point of view, Innova is using the Roc greedily. Rather than make it available in the best plastic at an affordable price, they release it in limited editions and as tournament FR discs to ultimately increase their income. They could make this disc available in the Star plastic just as easily as they have the Skeeter, but they're not...just to make a buck.



Innova's Roc and other CFR fundraiser program for major events has launched sponsorship cash to new levels in the past few years. Innova should be thanked not criticized for this INNOVAtive fundraising program. Innova makes no more money on these special tournament discs than they do on standard run discs. In fact, because of the effort to run the USDGC or coordinate these special programs with TDs of major events, they may actually make less money on these discs than the standard line they pump out.

You just need to look at the high payouts for the USDGC in the past several years to see the impact of the Rocs. Last year, the CFR Wraith raised tens of thousands for the Pro Worlds and it's well on the way to help our 2007 Pro Worlds. No other sponsor either inside the sport or outside the sport is likely to come close to the sponsorship dollars provided by Innova due to their special sponsor disc program.

Unfortunately, it still means our player are the ones providing the most sponsorship dollars for our big events and I would like to thank those players who support our events with their purchases. I can understand not wanting to use these more expensive discs for your regular bag. I don't use them as 'go to' discs. But it's fun having one or two in the bag to pull out once in a while to show you've indirectly helped provide a little support to building our pro tour.



Pretty much sums it up !!!!

They should try the MD1 in Star Plastic from www.discgolfvalues.com (http://www.discgolfvalues.com)

http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=MD1_Star&PHPSESSID=41cce1 93555a811641a758c2a82620a1

There will always be holes in any arguement, even logical ones...it just comes down to preferences, I guess. :D YMMV



This could seriously be the best quote ever, it really does come down to preference. I prefer my buzzz for one simple reason i trust it as much as any disc in my bag. I have tried a Roc for about a week but I couldn't never get the hang of it and gave it away. But I know that the Roc did not become the most popular disc ever by being worthless and have seen some really nice shots out of people that can throw it. Just starting out I tried out or bought about every disc you can think of and have narrowed it down simply by discs that when I reach for I trust.

I fully agree with Robert. I have tried the Roc, and threw it both in my backyard and on the course, and nothing good came out of it. All my friends kept telling me the Roc is the way, but I honestly believe the Roc is overrated. I picked up a Buzzz after winning a gift certificate to the outdoors store from a tourney and I havent looked back. The Buzzz is still not the perfect disc for me, but I like it. But I have seen many of my friends do amazing things with Rocs and I'm not going to debate them. They love their Rocs an I love my Buzzz. It truly is about preference, and I prefer the Buzzz. But I am going to pick up a Goblin soon. It's been forever since I've thrown one, but I like that it has less diameter, and we'll see how that works out.

I have to give you a little background on who I am and how the Roc fundraiser affects me as a newbie pro. I play open..just started, but I am certainly not a tour pro and I will probably NEVER play in Worlds or the USDGC. From my point of view...these fundraiser discs only benefit the players that are making big cash in these big tournaments. How does more money for Worlds or the USDGC help regular joe shmoe pro that will never be anywhere near cash in any of those events. These discs being available for fundraiser only have yet to directly benefit me and probably never will. I consider myself more a recreational pro because I only play in a handful of tournaments a year. I still like to play well on a local level and I like to play the best game I can play....hence why I would like to try the Roc. But, like I said, my current budget doesn't allow me to spend that price on multiple discs. Can I go out and buy a ton of DX Rocs? Sure...but I don't like the ambuguity of the "break in" process. I know many people love that break in process...but I don't...I like predictability every time I throw and I don't want to worry about whether or not my discs is going to fly differently on this throw than the last.

I can see how these fundraiser discs benefit the touring pro and advance the potential for people to make a living at disc golf, but for those of us that aren't ever going to make it to that level, we are not reaping the same level of benefit. How is added cash in tournaments that locals players will never play in benefiting them. YAHOOOO Feldberg gets another $1000 for his win..in the meantime this disc remains too expensive for me. I feel the general public is just losing out on a great disc, at maximum durabilty at an affordable price in order to pad the top pros purse.

A true pro is someone who is at least striving to become the best, not just hanging out in their own state and never testing their skills on a national level. Most of us are local players who are happy to play for each other's money and those who play for merch who really aren't much different in their personal orientation and goals for playing. We are weekend warriors. It's not a negative judgment, just the way it is. I'm one of those pros, too.

If you truly believe there are benefits in the fund raiser discs versus regular line discs, then the price dfferential is worth it. Tiger's clubs are more expensive and theoretically better than what most non-PGA pros use and certainly better than what weekend amateurs use, even the low handicappers. You need to decide if the fund raiser disc provides benefits worth the price. Strictly an economic decision. Whether profits from those discs are used to support pros isn't really relevant unless you have some problem with that.

BTW, playing in Pro Worlds is a lot of fun whether you are a true pro or a weekend warrior. There are many more of us than true pros even at Worlds. Hope it works out for you to play sometime.

If $25.00 is too much for you to spend, you can get factory second Star or Champion Rocs at Zonedriven for only $18.99. That's only a few dollars more than your average Star disc. It would give you a chance to try one out without all the investment.

Factory Second Rocs at Zonedriven (http://www.zonedriven.com/proshop/index.php?p=catalog&parent=84&pg=1)

I can see how these fundraiser discs benefit the touring pro and advance the potential for people to make a living at disc golf, but for those of us that aren't ever going to make it to that level, we are not reaping the same level of benefit. How is added cash in tournaments that locals players will never play in benefiting them. YAHOOOO Feldberg gets another $1000 for his win..in the meantime this disc remains too expensive for me. I feel the general public is just losing out on a great disc, at maximum durabilty at an affordable price in order to pad the top pros purse.



Well, the reason the champion rocs were produced in the first place was to raise funds for USDGC. Now, they also raise funds for EDGE, lots of funds. If you don't want to support disc golf programs in schools and don't want children to have the opportunity to learn about disc golf (and become real disc golfers), don't buy the disc. It would be a terrible idea to lower the price of champ rocs.

These discs being available for fundraiser only have yet to directly benefit me and probably never will.



This is a selfish statement. The only way that these discs are going to directly benefit someone like you is for you to throw them. Get out there and get yourself an SB Roc you tight wad.


I say that we start a fund to help Big Mack afford a $25 disc. Who would be willing to chip in a buck to make this ridiculous thread go away?

I'm in for a buck.

i'm in.

what the hell, he seems like a good guy. I'm in

why are we doing this?

Hawk cries about his PDGA fee, so the BoD ponies up $50 to pay for his membership.

This kid's crying about the cost of a FUNDRAISER disc, and now you folks want to buy him one?

C'mon now..

Put an extra dollar into the charity jar at your next ice bowl..let the guy buy his own Star Roc.

I think you're missing the point man. We are being heavily sarcastic offering to pay for him as if he is not able to do it himself. (Clearly the man could save up $25 to buy one if he really wanted it, but he wants SEVERAL of them)

I hear ya, but after seeing Hawk get his wishes granted, I felt the need to chime in..

doot- see you at buzzzys saturday?

-Scott Lewis

ONE CH Roc, ONE Special Blend, and a few DX Rocs should keep any disc golfer happy for quite a few years.
The only time I worry about my $ Rocs is when I throw over water, which isn't often. When I know I'll have to, I make sure I have a couple cheap KC or DX that I know in my bag.
Another point of view is this ... If you buy a few CH Rocs, SB's, 10x or any other Roc for that matter ... should you not like them ... I guarantee you will be able to sell/trade them to get most if not all of your money back!

That is kinda weird. I did not realize that hawks membership was paid for him. Some of those threads got a little too boring for me to bear finishing reading...

doot- see you at buzzzys saturday?

-Scott Lewis



Hell's yeah I'll be there..hobblin' as always, and looking to stay out of DFL in Intermediate..

See you Sunday at the Rutgers Ice Bowl as well?!?!?!

http://discdevils.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?1

Weren't we going to trade plastic at some point last year?

HUH? The PDGA is paying someone's renewal fee?!? Please tell me this is not true. If so, I'd love some help paying the $150 bucks I have to pay now for me, my wife and son! Oh yeah, I get a $15 family discount, forgot. I'll pay it so their official's status won't lapse and I can play in the few PDGA events in my region AND to get the mag. No, I don't mind supporting the PDGA, but any more price increases will certainly make me think harder. rWc3523 :cool:

Hawk cries about his PDGA fee, so the BoD ponies up $50 to pay for his membership.



It was proposed in the Board minutes but it didn't look like it passed?

HUH? The PDGA is paying someone's renewal fee?!? Please tell me this is not true. If so, I'd love some help paying the $150 bucks I have to pay now for me, my wife and son! Oh yeah, I get a $15 family discount, forgot. I'll pay it so their official's status won't lapse and I can play in the few PDGA events in my region AND to get the mag. No, I don't mind supporting the PDGA, but any more price increases will certainly make me think harder. rWc3523 :cool:



Ugg..well, kindasortanotreally..

If you read the BoD minutes, a motion was made to pay for HawkGammon's membership dues..it did not pass, but BoD members put in money out of pocket to get him in. Apparantly he's an asset to disc golf in the Maryland area. I dunno. He does add a level of humor to the MB..dunno if that's worth $50..

what the hell, he seems like a good guy. I'm in



I'd put a buck in, but I'm concerned this person would just lose it and come back whining about how expensive it is to replace the one he fell in love with. Teach a man to fish ....
:D

Hey...I'm just stating my point of view here. I don't think I'm whining. Although the financial aspect of purchasing $25 discs does play a part in what I'm saying...it's more the principle of the matter than anything else. I think it's bad business practice from an ethical standpoint. Is it good that the EDGE program is being benefited? Sure. But as a PE teacher myself I think that quality PE teachers shouldn't need the EDGE to teach disc golf.

I would also be curious to what the percentage of players that cashed at Worlds and USDGC were Innova Team players that did DIRECTLY benefit financially from these fundraiser discs.

In regards to being a cheapskate...hey I have to be thrifty. My wife and I are teachers and trust me..we don't get paid squat. Also, we have a 2 yr. old that costs over $600 a month for daycare. I don't have an indespensible amount of money to spend on discs and I really do have to watch what I spend on discs. It all adds up.

I think I got my point across here so I'm moving on. I don't want to get personal, judgement and sarcastic with ya'll, that's just not cool and exactly what disc golf is not about. No need to send me money for a Star/Champ Roc...I went out today and bought an ESP Buzzz.

Like I said...just another reason why I'll never throw the Roc.

But as a PE teacher myself I think that quality PE teachers shouldn't need the EDGE to teach disc golf.



Is that because PE teachers get enough disc skills education at college to teach students disc skills? Wasn't aware there were more than a few college P.E. programs in the country that even touched on it. Please tell. Many of our pros playing for years don't have all of the EDGE skills, let alone the ability to teach them.

Big Mack, Well spoken. You made your point graciously. One of my points is that it's not about benefiting from an expensive Roc personally. The Champ Roc is a fundraiser. That's for others benefit. Ultimately "Disc Golf" Benifits. If we don't somehow get ready for mainstream sports acceptance, by having big money tourneys, it will never happen. The Champ Roc has to remain limited. Who would purchase a CFR Cheetah? Yea, someone, but not by the thousands every year.

But as a PE teacher myself I think that quality PE teachers shouldn't need the EDGE to teach disc golf.



A bit of a thread drift from the Roc discussion, but something I need to say here.

Jeff, the "quality" teachers are the ones that are constantly seeking out new fitness and sports activities, learning how to do them, and teaching their students. Not everyone knows the skills necessary to teach every sport out there, contrary to your belief. There are 15,000 to 20,000 teachers and others that attend the National AAHPERD* conference every year, and EDGE is there to tell them about disc golf. We spend hours every day talking with folks about how to start a program. The reason those people are at the conference is called "professional development."

As a point of information, there are even a few NASPE** National Teachers of the Year that have adopted disc golf after learning about it from EDGE. I'd say that these people are "quality" teachers. And those colleges and universities that are using EDGE as a basis for pre-service training? Are they not producing "quality" teachers?

Do you know and have the skills for every sport? How about fencing? Maybe field hockey? Then there would be tkachuk. All of these sports present and promote themselves at AAHPERD. They (and we) do it to expose teachers to new activities, to broaden their perspective from football and basketball.

Does your PE department teach disc golf in the curriculum? If so, do you meet National Standards with your lesson plans? Are you really sure? If you are not teaching it, why not? And are all the "quality" teachers at your school competent in disc golf fundamentals?

Jeff, I see on your profile that you are an Adapted (I've always thought it was Adaptive) PE Teacher. Did you know that the EDGE curriculum has included lesson plans and suggestions for students with disabilities from the outset?

See you in Baltimore?

*American Alliance for Health, Physical Education, Recreation and Dance. The PE Teacher's professional organization.
**National Association for Sports and Physical Education. The organization that sets curricular standards for PE.

Jon Lyksett, EdS
Program Director
Educational Disc Golf Experience, Inc.
Discimus per vita. (http://www.edgediscgolf.org)

Jon, I think the title of this thread is"why are champ rocs limited in production and pricy?" You are right on. I really didn't know that the CFR program helped EDGE. I also didn't know that EDGE is presented to such a large and wide base. Thanks for your help. Our Sport is worth being shared.

That's why I said 'thread drift.'

Two years ago, the USDGC presented a check to EDGE for $25,000 that supported our efforts for nearly a year. That came from Roc sales.

EDGE also benefited from Wraith sales last year, when the Pro Worlds presented EDGE with a grant of $15,000 that is being used for production costs for an instructional DVD.

For those of you that have supported these programs to raise funds for tournaments and our program, THANK YOU!

jon

So the reason why CE/Star Rocs are limited and pricy is so that you generate demand (limited supply) and charge accordingly (pricy).

The revenue goes to support the USDGC and the EDGE program. My, that was easy. :D

PS: the CE Roc I throw is an X-out from a few years ago. Great disc and at a discount. Never wears out either.

It was said somewhere on this thread that Innova makes only as much money from the CFR/ SFR rocs as it does on regular rocs. Since it makes about 4-8 dollars per disc, I think that's more than enough if they are really using it as a fundraiser to raise money for their sponsored events that probably brings in much more money than anyone realizes by the exposure they get at the USDGC and Worlds. Perhaps INNOVA could drop the price by 4-8 dollars to break even on rocs, give a break to the common player, increase their exposure by getting more people to throw CFR/SFR rocs, and not be the cause of threads like this. I'm sure so few of these rocs are sold, anyway, that it wouldn't cut into profits excessively.

Maybe I'm just used to elementary school fundraisers where items were used solely to make money for the benificiary rather than for the donor, as well. Can you imagine if your mom jacked up the price of bake sale brownies to cover the price of the mix and make a tidy profit?

I think they should give them away free!

I don't think it's really the $25 price tag that gets people. Heck, there are retailers in the city where I live that charge about $20 for a dyed disc. There are always more ecomomical discs out there that will work just as well.

I believe it's the ebay after market price jump that makes the common golfer feel that the disc is un-available and I don't see where dropping the price $4-$8 per disc will help change that perception.

There are CE/Star/SB Rocs still for sale RIGHT NOW in the Zone Driven pro shop. Probably some X-outs there too which are priced just a buck or two above the current retail price of most CE discs.

There's another way to get the ROCS you want. And Ebay is your friend. Simply buy 4 ROCS at $25, sell 2 on Ebay for $50 and the other 2 are yours to do with as you like. The demand far outweighs the supply. Or if you really want one bad I have quite a few for sale. Anywhere in the $50 to $1500 range. Just let me know what you're looking for.

Now to clarify. Innova doesn't make $4-8 on each CE ROC. They recoup thier expenses and the rest of the money goes into support of both the USDGC and EDGE and probally a few other areas. Hell with as much as Innova does contribute to the sport in sponsorship, donations, etc. from recreation to pro I say let them be. You see without Innova you would'nt be playing disc golf as you know it today.
This is thier way to fund the best tournament out there. How does that benifit you? The USDGC will be the tool that brings in major sponsors. Those major sponsors will also contribute to local tournamnet X. You play in local tournamnet X as a weekend warrior and now the prize pools are 10-50X what they were before. Hence you're making more money. To buy more $25 CE ROCS of course. :D

Does anyone else think it's funny that BigMac is a "recreational pro" and is complaining about giving away his money to better pros? Isn't that what a "rec pro" does? Heck, I tried the pro ranks a few times and I should have just written a check to the winner... :o

On a serious note, BM, the CFR Rocs are some of the best discs out there for a few reasons. They help out aspiring disc golfers that don't even know it yet.
They showcase one of our manufacturers. They bring in money for tournament growth where not alot of other sponsors are willing to jump aboard.
Saying it's ridiculous to spend $19-$25 for a disc is like saying you're not playing an ice bowl because the pay-outs suck.

when will the MAJOR sponsers star contributing to "local tournament x"?

They already contribute to a large number of events I play at.