I have been thinking (constantly) about my next disc golf dvd or video that I am going to make.

I want your opinions on the topic, SO...

Do you think that disc golf dvds should be geared solely toward disc golfers? Chains is going to be an awesome documentary, and I am sure that the director is keeping both the disc golfer and non-disc golfer in mind when making the movie, but what about videos that are NOT documentaries?
Basically - what do YOU want to see from a disc golf video?

Cool shots, good music, and PRANKS! (at the player's party)

I will give more feedback whenever the Skylands DVD arrives.

Like JackAss?

I really enjoyed your Skylands DVD, and I understand the commentary approach that you took to kinda introduce a non-disc golfer to the lingo and such. But I think that type of approach should be saved for a documentary (Chains). Keep the Golf DVDs for the golfers. Can't wait for next years DVD.

Jen,
Thought the Skylands was rad. We at Snap always thought that for the play by play format it would be nice to know what disc the player was throwing at any given time. I also find player interviews interesting, as well as hole and player stats. obviously, camera quality is something that will greatly improve overall videography combined with more cameras for multiple angles. This is something we'll be working toward in our next vid as well. I thought the commentary was smart and funny overall.
nice job again.
-Matt
p.s. one of the dvd's we received was scratched beyond function. Can i send it back for a replacement?

I'd like to see some text on the screen that identifies the type of disc a player is throwing for each shot. I'd like to see maps and footages for each hole. I'd also like to see slow mo's of some of the top players for different types of shots. I'd like to see the preshot routines of the players, but not necessarily the downtime b/w shots. I like the pace of the MSDGC videos (and the commentary), but I find myself wishing that there would be about 1 to seconds more footage of each player for every shot to see pre shot routines and/or follow thru style. I'm all about analyzing every part of a pros shot, so anything you could include to make this easier.

The Skylands DVD does have a hole map and distance for every tee that shows at the beginning of each hole.

I also use the slow play function on my DVD player to watch how the pros throw. I find it very useful for developing technique.

:)

Footage from more than just the top players throwing. Don't get me wrong, it's great to see them throw but it does get tiresome. That's what I liked about the Coolshots format-regular guys and gals play the game too and sometimes they make great shots.

I prefer final 9/final round coverage that show almost every shot. Highlight videos get old after the first time. Don't use slow motion during round coverage. Save the slow motion for the extras section. Also, I like hearing basic disc golf terminology (hyzer/anhyzer), but save the slang for the course. (no tree-nied please)

Good idea there...to use sections.
There are folks (like me) who like to analyze technique(s) and slow-mo with interviews about technique/disc-choice/route-choice for a particular throw would be enlightening.
Interview the pro/player separately & while sharing the slow-mo get their comments, etc... Make it a separate section/chapter.

The most important thing is to have as many cameras as possible...Skylands is fun but can't compete with Marshall Street for only this reason. The courses are just as cool, and skylands maybe has stronger pros. But it gets old fast watching 3 rounds of 8 guys.
The second thing is production quality. But thats kind of out of your control. Just spend all the money you have on the video
;).
Lastly, the format should definitely be a round coverage section and a highlights section. The music's gotta rock in the latter section.

PS: the dance of the golfers is the best extra on a disc golf video ever...hands down...with out a doubt...best.

i am glad that I started this, because everyone has such different ideas. Basically, there won't be a video that does all of the things mentioned in this thread (that is what I think). It would be pointless to try to accomplish all of these things in ONE video because none of the aspects would get the screen time that it needs.

For exapmle : I loved watching the 30 hours of video my crew shot because I got to see the routine of each player before they threw. If I had edited this into the video, it would have been 6 hours long.

So, here is a question: are disc golfers willing to spend more than $20 on a dvd? For example : I agree that music has to be good during the highlights, but good music is hard to find for cheap or free (music rights are really expensive)

This thread made me realize that there really are genres of disc golf dvds and as the dvds get better, the videos will be more diverse, and I think that is really cool.

Good point Jen. Better videos cost more to produce on all levels. If people want better dvd's they've got to be willing to fork over the extra buck.

If people want better dvd's they've got to be willing to fork over the extra buck.




Or, the market needs to be larger than it is currently.

I don't like the idea of music on the vids. If I want to listen to music while watching it, I turn on iTunes and mute my DVD player. That way, the music never gets old even if I watch the DVD 100 times. I like the idea of seperate sections. In the "extras" section, I'd rather have an instructional part, or throw analysis part than videos of a grandma putting. I think those things are great for people who were there and can remember them, but for most people, the inside jokes of a tournament are not very funny or just get old very quickly.

If there was a 2 dvd set that had one disc of strictly highlights and one disc with pro analysis and other extras that would help the common player improve, i'd definitely be into it. Rather than the stokely approach of just one player's technique over and over, I'd like to see side by side comparisons of different players with commentary on their strengths and weaknesses (a la the discraft sidearm video). I, too, make liberal use of the slow mo feature on my dvd player, but I feel that I still miss parts of the throw that I should be watching simply because I don't know what to look at.

Just watched the Skylands DVD last night, here are my suggestions:
1. MUSIC! Especially on the Round Intros and leadercard screens. And I would like some ambient, low volume music while watching the throwers. Nothing mainstream or big, just some long, progressive house stuff, like a long NIN intro or something.
2. Some of the camera views were saturated because of the sunlight. That should be an easy fix.
3. It would be nice to see a split screen of the thrower from the teepad and from the basket/fairway (especially on really good throws). I don't know how hard that would be to do, but I would love to see it. That way you get to see the whole throw and the whole shot/line.

I love the DVD, it was just offly quite, especially on changes between rounds and cards.

skylands dvd was quiet? I have never had that problem and no one else has ever told me about that. The women's rounds are quieter than the rest of the dvd, but everything else is (supposed to be) set at the same level, even the menu music. Criticism is good, though. It is good to have all of these suggestions in mind when getting ready for the next project.

For exapmle : I loved watching the 30 hours of video my crew shot because I got to see the routine of each player before they threw. If I had edited this into the video, it would have been 6 hours long.


Comment on one minor point you made: just include the pre-shot routine on a few shots, not all. How about showing the pre-shot routine of one player on every other hole? Adds some depth to the coverage without as much of a time increase.

And I will (and have) paid more than $20 for a video.

Now that I think about it, I probably will never charge more than $20 for a dvd, that was my first one and I spent all the money I had and lots of money I didn't have to make it. But from now on, it will be easier because I learned so much from making Skylands, I will spend my budget wisely.

I think you are right about adding the player's routine. Next time, I think I will cut some of the bring holes and elaborate on the good ones.

skylands dvd was quiet? I have never had that problem and no one else has ever told me about that. The women's rounds are quieter than the rest of the dvd, but everything else is (supposed to be) set at the same level, even the menu music. Criticism is good, though. It is good to have all of these suggestions in mind when getting ready for the next project.


Maybe there is something wrong with my copy. During the men's rounds the only sound is the commentators, no music, nothing. And when they show the leaderboard all I hear is the sound like an Amp is turned on with nothing plugged into it. Just fuzz and static. Is there supposed to be music? I hear commentators, sometimes the players, and fuzz throughout the whole thing.

there were problems with the mic during the recording of the women's commentary, and due to time constraints they could not be fixed. But the men's commentary shouldn't have fuzz at all. There is no music during the round coverage. Maybe it is the combo of the dvd and your system? have you tried it on a different dvd player? the dvds were replicated, not duplicated - replicaton being in the better of dvd production. I know that the dvd is far from perfect, but the audio levels on the men's round coverage was one of the things I thought I did well.

I haven't seen skylands dvd yet to be critical of it, but a graphic showing details and descriptions, maps, hazards etc. on any given hole helps in the home Watching experience.
Also what might be going through a players mind as he approaches a shot or hole.

ce

Keep the good ideas coming. Please.

You've probably heard this but I think the disc should be flying towards the camera or away from the camera 80% of the time. Its not as impressive to watch a shot from the side...
PS: nice job with the last marshall street video its the best DVD yet.

"Also what might be going through a players mind as he approaches a shot or hole."
How would we do this? We are not allowed to talk to the players during the round... I like the idea, I just wonder how to accomplish it

I prefer final 9/final round coverage that show almost every shot. Highlight videos get old after the first time. Don't use slow motion during round coverage. Save the slow motion for the extras section. Also, I like hearing basic disc golf terminology (hyzer/anhyzer), but save the slang for the course. (no tree-nied please)


I agree with pretty much all of that. I prefer to see every shot (or as many as possible), to see how the entire round develops.

I agree with pretty much all of that. I prefer to see every shot (or as many as possible), to see how the entire round develops.


Thats exactly why I like to see an entire round. I want to see how everyone handles the pressure and how their scores develop.

i also enjoy seeing every throw from a player for each hole.. I don't care who i'm watching, but I want to see what they do for that specific hole.

Also like others said it would be nice to know what disc they throw for at least their drives.. This might be difficult as you might have to hassle the pros so i can understand why it hasn't been added to a dvd yet.

I do have to say that the skylands DVD is amazing and it makes me miss living in north jersey where i was only 20mins from that course :(

I'll be up there this weekend at least.

-Scott Lewis

I've often thought that knowing exactly what disc was thrown each time would be awesome. Maybe you could check out the bags of the players before the round, write down the discs, and then be able to recognise and ID the discs as they throw them.

I'm baffled by the fascination with what disc someone uses for a throw. In ball golf commentary, it's important for some to know that a player used a Driver, 3-wood or 5-iron but they rarely say he used a Big Bertha model 25X titanium driver.

What's important to understand our game is the type of disc thrown, not the actual disc model. We don't have the variety in types of discs with ours primarily limited to Maximum Driver, Fairway Driver, Mid-range, Approach and Putters. In the case of trick shots, where maybe a righty throwing a flippy driver with hyzer is an appropriate or actual choice to match the shape of a corridor, what I just said is much more instructive than whether they used a beat DX valk, pred, orion or stingray.

Discussing the possible strategic options on a hole would be much more useful than the discs. Example: Players typically throw a mid-range to just short of the gap 250-260 feet off the tee, then most will use a long mid-range for the remaining 280-295 feet to preferably land just short of the pin. Those wishing to take a riskier tee shot can try to drive across the creek crossing in front of the gap and punch it into the woods. However, too far left or right and the player will face a challenging recovery shot from among the trees.

I think that people are interested in the model of disc thrown because they want to compare the flight as thrown by a top pro to the flight when they throw it. I think the comparison to the type of club used with reference to brand is unfair. Molds have different stabilities and speeds where as a 9 iron is a 9 iron and the flight of a ball does not depend on the type of 9 iron.

Waste of video time and more misleading than helpful. You can't even go out and buy a disc that flies like the discs that have been worked in by the pros. The very fact that there are so many disc models from different manufacturers that will execute the same shot makes it misleading for beginners that they need a 180g USDGC Roc to make a shot.

Now, if a disc manufacturer wants to do a combination instructional/promotional video on how to play a course with their discs, I think that would make more sense. Maybe Barry or Ken would lead you thru the course throwing brand new discs from Innova's line to show what each can do to solve a particular shot challenge. Get Schweb in there to show a few overhead shots. All discs would be off-the shelf models you could buy new anywhere.

I'm baffled by the fascination with what disc someone uses for a throw. In ball golf commentary, it's important for some to know that a player used a Driver, 3-wood or 5-iron but they rarely say he used a Big Bertha model 25X titanium driver.



That's because there are no ball golf drivers that are designed to create a hook or slice. I think it's always interesting to see how a top pro gets his/ her tee bird to fly and compare it to how I get mine to flutter and dive. I think saying "that's an understable fairway driver" is much more of a mouthful than "that's a 171 leopard."

Besides, where is it written that we should be exactly like ball golfers. Should we start country clubs that disallow minorities and women? I think we should strive to distance ourselves from ball golf. We have a good sport that should exist beyond comparisons to whatever else is out there and stand on its own.


The very fact that there are so many disc models from different manufacturers that will execute the same shot makes it misleading for beginners that they need a 180g USDGC Roc to make a shot.



That is the nature of sport. Little kids watch their heroes and try to emulate them. I don't know a lot of people that can do anything close to what LeBron James does with a composite leather Wilson basketball, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try. Should we blur out everybody's clothes and shoes on the videos so no one thinks that Salomon shoes and Huk Lab shirts make you drive further? I think adding in a little info about the disc brand wouldn't hurt sponsorship opportunities, either.

You can't go out and buy a Nike driver or whatever Tiger uses and hit it 350 yards either, how would knowing what disc someone is using be anymore of a waste of time than being told if its a driver or mid-range or putter? Just because you don't care doesn't make it stupid.

In the Skylands dvd, Steve Brinster did a combination of these things with the commentary and I think it worked well. Steve usually knew what discs the players were throwing off the tee, he recognized the disc by the color and what he thought the player would be throwing on that hole. He knew Climo's beat up wraith is red (or whatever) and would say "Climo throwing his wraith" (for example).
Steve is a smart guy, but you can't expect him to know every single person's bag. So sometimes he would just say "stable driver" or "I throw a putter" or whatever. I thought Steve did a good job with the commentary.
Think about the actual tournament and how weird it would be to make each player go through their bag with the camera person, we have to try to stay out of their way for the most part. They are nice, but you can't take that for granted.
Anyway, I don't think that tournament dvds are the right place to talk about each Innova and Discraft disc, but a couple references are cool.

I just started watching the Skylands DVD last night and I think that Steve does a great job of commenting. As far as knowing what discs are being thrown, I could care less but I think it might be nice for something like showing a players round with their own comments on the round as an extra. Kind of like a directors commentary during a movie, knowing what they were thinking and how they made their decisions.

But you have to make sure that it doesn't become self-important. The tournament didn't feature just one person. If the commentary is one pro talking about what they thought as they approached each hole, then it becomes "their show".

I was just suggesting as an extra like in a film DVD you have the regular movie and then you can watch it with the directors comments on the scenes. I didn't mean that that should be the commentary for the regular tourney coverage. Possibly you could get the winner or the whole top card.

I realize it'd be a ton of extra work for the commentary, but I agree it would be a very cool extra. Perhaps just the 1st through 4th place finishers and maybe do nine holes each or something along those lines. I would pay more for a 2dvd set that featured this along with the other cool features (hot putts, drives, upshots, bloopers, etc).

In talking with Harold about doing the USDGC video, I suggested talking with several pros before the event to explain how they plan to play various holes. Then, see if under tourney conditions, they actually execute their plans or deviate due to the mental games we play with ourselves based on what's been happening in a round so far. If they change things or their plan falters, ask them afterwards why they changed or the plan didn't work. Maybe they lost the disc they planned to use on a later hole. (We don't need to know it was a new red 173g buzz /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif)

I personally find the shot selection theory very interesting and informative on a dvd. The 2005 USDGC coverage talked about different routes to take and a little about mental aspects in a round when it was obvious some players were getting frustrated. Course walk-throughs would also be very informative, for those of us that have yet to play the courses in the video. The animated maps are nice, but often limited in how much they tell you about the hole.
While I think the MSDGC dvds are getting better technically each year, they sometimes feel a little rushed in trying to get so much of the coverage onto the discs. At least for a final round, I like to understand what shot is required before the player throws. It feels a little more like being there than a highlight reel that way.

chuck: You know the Saying about Opinions. Don't bash other's opinions because you have a different theory. It's obvious to see that a player is hyzerflipping a very flippy disc by watching. It's not obvious to see what disc that is. THat might explain why people want to know what disc is being thrown.

-Scott Lewis

There's a difference between promoting myths or superstition versus sound advice regardless of people's opinions. I believe some videos have a responsibilty to provide sound advice and not support something that less informed viewers might misinterpret as important to their game. It's like the difference between the news and shows like Extra or Insider. People like to watch both but most also understand the difference.

If it's a cool shots video, maybe identifying specific disc choices is a fun feature for that format. For a video that's more straight coverage like a major event with top pros, the quality of information ought to be more appropriate, useful, sound, etc. As Jen pointed out though, unless it's not a serious competition, it will be hard to even get that disc information. That's why I think the manufacturer video showing off what their top pros can do with their new discs for various shots on a course would be the ideal way to showcase the shot-by-shot choices so players could actually go and buy the discs they might want to try.

The question posed by the thread is "Opinions on future disc golf videos." It is not "Opinions on future disc golf tournament videos." I think less time ought to be spent on naysaying other's opinions and more time building constructive ideas. That being said... I'm about to contradict myself totally.

CK, I like your idea of the Disc manfacturer's videos, but that doesn't mean those are the only videos that should tell me what discs the players are currently throwing. Obviously, it could get cheesy and overdone if the commentators let us know about every disc that everyone throws on a hole, but it would be nice to know for a sample of shots. If you don't want to know, just hit mute. The two ideas can coexist peacefully on one webboard.

Also, I think it's important to keep in mind that beginners are not usually the ones who get the videos (based on my thorough experience in several disc golf meccas). If you (or anyone-not trying to single you out) can't get a teerex to go more than 250 before hyzering out, you (or anyone) would be silly to think that you should buy more after watching Feldberg crush one on a tournament video. If someone is going to make a bad choice with a disc purchase, they will find some reason to do it regardless of what they see on a video.

Also, I feel I have partially spearheaded this transgression. Back to the topic: I think having the winner of the tournament give a hole by hole analysis of a particular round of theirs is a cool idea. That way, you really aren't singling people out that haven't already singled themselves out. And if anyone complains that they don't get to talk on the DVD, you can just tell them to win the next year.

I apologize for the smack down of an opinion on an opinion thread. I was wearing the multiple hats of consumer, video producer and pro initially. From a consumer standpoint, I can see people being interested in what other people throw sort of as a voyeur.

However, from my own experience, I was inadvertently mislead by Innova literature at a sporting goods store in 1989 when buying my first disc. I knew I needed a driver. So I looked at the pictures and descriptions of each disc and of course zeroed in on the one that said this was used to set the current World record of 623 feet. I walked out of the store with my brand new 198g Phoenix! I could throw farther with my 165g Master Frisbee than that tugboat. Imagine if I gave up the game thinking it was stupid.

Fortunately, a local got me on to a 168g Eclipse and my game took off. I found out later that Sammy Ferrans set the record with a 165g Phoenix. So, I'm concenrned about people getting good information, especially beginners.

I would like to see a video of Avery trying to crush a beat up 150 stingray. Good times.

Jen, if you want to swap videos like I did with Marshall Street, let me know. Mine is a whole different type than a tournament. It's a 10-minute introduction tour of Highbridge Hills, plus a 50-minute hole-by-hole designer's tour of our first three courses that will be played at Worlds. For others who are interested, it's available on the Merchandise page at the link below.

That sounds pretty hot, Chuckie.

DG Videos need better sound. I would like to hear the "snap" from the thrower as well as the sound of the disc landing. This is not captured well on videos I've watched and would probably require multiple high performance microphones on every hole, like:

http://k43.pbase.com/t4/52/605852/4/52402406.espn2sidelinemic.jpg

So this is more of a wish then something that is really feasible.

If anything, I would like to know what the player is shooting with each shot.

It seems that since most of the video/tournies are sponsored by a major disc manufacturor...they don't spend any time telling us what the player is throwing since many of the discs are not their brand.

What disc is Rico rolling every time? What are the guys putting with? What are they throwing huge anhyzers with? ect.

DG Videos need better sound. I would like to hear the "snap" from the thrower as well as the sound of the disc landing.So this is more of a wish then something that is really feasible.


[begin humorous thread drift]

The short video on the link below was able to capture the sound of the snap:
Kevin Gomez: "Disc Golf My Way" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOwtuGQFXMU)

[end humorous thread drift]
:D

There are times on Skylands dvd when my cameraguy was over 200 ft away from Val Jenkins and you can still hear her snap echo through the Warwick Valley. Its rad.

You sure that's not the sound of guys knees buckling who are watching? :eek:

You sure that's not the sound of guys knees buckling who are watching? :eek:



SNAP! :o

I just watched the worlds DVD and thought that there was good graphics and ok coverage. I realized that the PDGA is putting the Worlds DVD together hoping it will get picked up by ESPN or something while the best DVD's like MSDC and the Skylands which I would put second are catering to the people who like to watch tons of Discgolf footage. So I go with lots of footage and coverage in the future