I've really been trying to keep up with all the new releases of discs lately and it has been great to see some really cool stuff coming out...well cool to some, and stupid to others.

My question is: "How close are we to the best that disc golf discs are going to get?"

I mean, so many discs that are released these days fly so similarly. Now Innova has the Firebird, Max and TeeRex and for me they all fly pretty darn close. Variations on newly released discs seem to be pretty slight these days and there hasn't been a "breakthrough" disc that does something completely new.

Putters seem to have evolved to their best state as there doesn't seem to be any up and coming revolutionary putter. Is the Aviar as good as it's going to get? It seems to me that the DX, JK & KC Aviars will be the best putters well into the future. Also, putters are coming out in more durable plastics with more overstablity to be used as midranges and/or drivers off the tee.

Midranges are turning into the new drivers. I mean, what other midrange can Innova and Discraft create? There are so many of them that fly in so many different ways. Just an example for Discraft - Comet, Stratus, Breeze, Glide, Storm, Buzz, Wasp, Drone, & Rattlr. That is A LOT of midranges and it seems that they've got it all covered. Innova probably as an even more broad scope taking into consideration all their DX discs.

Are there revolutionary plastic types on the horizon beyond Star and ESP?

Are there revolutionary molds, textures on the horizon? As of now it seems that the dimple and groove top stuff isn't really working out and that Odyssey stuff...I mean come on.

Is there going to be a disc that out flies the Wraith for distance? Will the Roc & Buzz set the standard for midranges, or is there some superstar waiting in the wings?

It seems that right now, discs for disc golf, are in a pretty good place. Is there an disc type, flight characteristic, or platic type that we are currently missing out on?

ARE WE AS GOOD AS WE"RE GOING TO GET WITH DISCS?????

P.S. I think we're pretty darn close (IMO).

I do not have the answer to your question, but I know Gateway is doing some new stuff to their discs (it is only a matter of time until someone posts what they are on here). Another thing to consider is that before the beveled edge discs I am sure people were saying the same thing about lids... so maybe their will be another completely redesign of discs that will drastically change the sport.

Be careful what you wish for. Beveled edge discs made most existing courses obsolete. New disc technology in the past 10 years has forced some holes/courses to get longer to challenge high level players. Any technology advancements that affect scoring such as longer distance or better catching baskets can change the balance in the game such that it's not disc golf anymore.

Once a sport has stabilized, advancements should come in how long equipment lasts or ways to make it stronger, lighter, look better or feel better. At some point, you have to protect the game, at least at the competitive level, to retain the proper balance of challenges. For example, Aerobies could have been allowed at one point. But a choice was made to disallow discs with holes in them. This would have altered the nature of the game beyond any semblance to golf or the ability to design free courses long enough to handle those discs.

"There is a better way for everything. Find it."
-Thomas Edison

same as with baseball bats being wooden. you reach a point.

Eventually it will come to an end because there are only so many designs for a disc. Sure, you can make slight alterations or combine different elements of 2 discs to make a new one, but eventually every design imaginable will be made.

Check out the DGA Rouge. You might like it.

Is that a red disc?

Another question that I meant to ask:

Do you think the PDGA specifications/standards for disc production will ever be modified to advance disc technology? There is only so much that can be done now because of those specifications.

What I am noticing is that "less used" discs are coming out in higher quality plastics much quicker than they used to (i.e. the Star Gator, Rhyno, Skeeter, etc...). I think its great that companies are releasing more discs in better plastic because it saves me mone in the long run (and I don't like the "break-in" process of discs).

I tend to agree with the bat comment...it only advanced so far and I think golf discs are close to being at their best.

My question is: "How close are we to the best that disc golf discs are going to get?"



The best disc was introduced along time ago. It's called the ROC and it's the basis for many discs out there today.



Are there revolutionary molds, textures on the horizon? As of now it seems that the dimple and groove top stuff isn't really working out



Once again technology that has been around for a long time. The CDS and Dimple discs were released back in the early 80's although never PDGA approved due to thier lack of flexability. Yet they remained favorites until the evolution from Cylones/Vipers to Valkyries/Xs.



Is there going to be a disc that out flies the Wraith for distance?



There already exists a disc that flies further than the Wraith. It's called the Valkyrie and some guy named Christian swears by them.


Will the Roc & Buzz set the standard for midranges, or is there some superstar waiting in the wings?



See above. The ROC set the standard years ago.


ARE WE AS GOOD AS WE"RE GOING TO GET WITH DISCS?????



Remember, it's not the discs that makes a player great.

Rick B.,

I think you misinterpreted my question. I didn't ask what the best disc was. I'm sure if there was a survey on this forum the Roc would win hands down. I don't think there is any question on disc golf's perception of the Roc (even though I don't like it) and the impact the Roc has had on disc production & design over the years.

If the Roc did set the standard then I guess we're as good as we're going to get. I'm not talking about what was created in the past...or even what we currently have. My question is what lies ahead? It's not a competition, and if the current Roc is what lies ahead, then we're already there and my question is answered.

Regarding the Wraith. I think there is a wider scope of players (and future players) that can throw the Wraith further than the Valk. I think the Valk has its place (not to take anything away from Sandstrom and what disc he likes to throw 800ft.), but I think the current king of distance in disc golf is the Wraith. Are there individuals that can throw a different disc a mile? Sure. But, across the scope of disc golf I would venture to say that the Wraith has made a much more broad impact on overall disc golfer distance performance. I have seen many Valk throwers quickly add over 50 ft. to their drives after they pick up the Wraith. Are they distance specialists like Sandstrom? No. But for a vast quantity of disc golfers the Wraith has outdistanced the Valk.

I find it interesting that you ended your post about how great the Roc is, with: "it's not the disc that makes a player great"...kind of contradicted yourself there.

the difference between valk and wraith lays in distance potential.
The valk having more potential, but the wraith being faster penetrates faster and goes further on a traditional golf line. However in pure D the valk takes the cake because it is slower and fades later, giving it more potential.
I say there is still a little bit of room for improvement on golf discs, but we are getting much closer to the cap. I think gateway is pushing toward reaching those limits, however have not fine tuned their new tech w/ the right mold to be there yet.

Rick B.,

I think you misinterpreted my question. I didn't ask what the best disc was. I'm sure if there was a survey on this forum the Roc would win hands down. I don't think there is any question on disc golf's perception of the Roc (even though I don't like it) and the impact the Roc has had on disc production & design over the years.

If the Roc did set the standard then I guess we're as good as we're going to get. I'm not talking about what was created in the past...or even what we currently have. My question is what lies ahead? It's not a competition, and if the current Roc is what lies ahead, then we're already there and my question is answered.

Regarding the Wraith. I think there is a wider scope of players (and future players) that can throw the Wraith further than the Valk. I think the Valk has its place (not to take anything away from Sandstrom and what disc he likes to throw 800ft.), but I think the current king of distance in disc golf is the Wraith. Are there individuals that can throw a different disc a mile? Sure. But, across the scope of disc golf I would venture to say that the Wraith has made a much more broad impact on overall disc golfer distance performance. I have seen many Valk throwers quickly add over 50 ft. to their drives after they pick up the Wraith. Are they distance specialists like Sandstrom? No. But for a vast quantity of disc golfers the Wraith has outdistanced the Valk.

I find it interesting that you ended your post about how great the Roc is, with: "it's not the disc that makes a player great"...kind of contradicted yourself there.



Ok my max D with a Wraith was 498'. My max D with the Raging Inferno was somewhere in the 520' range. That was my 1st time to throw it as well.

Sorry you just seemed to give the Wraith/Aviar a little too much superiority :D

I'm surprised I'm the first to say this, but they will keep making new discs as long as you keep buying them. As similar or different as many discs fly, thousands of you will rush to buy one or ten or twenty five of anything new that comes out because you have to have it. And stores and discs clubs will buy them by the box load. Some molds last and some don't but they all sell some and they are easy to make. It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

It didn't take long for this to become a "what's the best disc" thread. What a surprise.

I'm surprised I'm the first to say this, but they will keep making new discs as long as you keep buying them. As similar or different as many discs fly, thousands of you will rush to buy one or ten or twenty five of anything new that comes out because you have to have it. And stores and discs clubs will buy them by the box load. Some molds last and some don't but they all sell some and they are easy to make. It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

It didn't take long for this to become a "what's the best disc" thread. What a surprise.



<------- Has never bought a disc. :D

I do agree with what you said though and that is why cerain companies release 10 discs a year that they claim is the best disc ever even when they aren't worth the price of the plastic it was made in. Unfortunantly I think the wraith is one of those discs but if people like to throw it then I will just keep on laughing when they try to hyzer it and it rolls or when they try to anhyzer it and it hyzers out. :D

Big Mack I wans't trying to misrepresent your questions. You asked questions and I answered them. My answers were my opinions.
I always get a kick out of those who are looking for that next miracle disc. The one that will change thier game completely. When the truth of the matter is that the miracle disc already exists. It's just that so many players never take the time to learn that disc. You said it yourself that you "didn't like the break in process". It is in those various stages of break in where the miracle discs wait.
In the land of exagerated internet distances where everyone can easily throw 500+, I am surprised that there aren't more superstar players out there. Distance is a vastly overated factor in the game of disc golf. Those that can throw long controlled shots are the ones with the most success.
And my comment concerning the player and not the disc. A few years back, Mark bruce aka Discgolfdude, at Big D in the desert launched an Aero somewhere near 550 ft. In real life distance that's further than 98% of golfers can throw. The top players in the world could take a few midranges and putters and still win most tournaments they play in.
The next breakthrough in our sport won't be in the equipment but rather the teaching of throwing fundamentals . Someone will develop a teaching regiment or tool that will allow players to throw farther and more accurately.

Is that a red disc?



Not until you put granny's makeup on it

Rick B.,

I don't think that I am one of those people that is looking for that miracle disc (I like to keep it simple...and I can't afford to try out every new disc that gets released)...I was just curious to how close we are to the apex of the golf disc mountain. And, according to you we're there and we've been there ever since the Roc was invented.

I agree that distance is overrated. The majority of the time strokes that I have lost in a round weren't due to my drives...most of the time it boils down to the short game (although a long drive helps my short game on those extra long holes). I do think distance will become more helpful in the future as courses are getting longer and longer...let me re-phrase that "accurate distance" will be more valuable. I mentioned the Wraith because it was one disc that I was hesitant to try out because I had the discs that I was loyal to and I rarely give into the hype. But in the end I did try the Wraith and no disc has changed my game as dramatically in a shorter period of time...so it paid off for me. I should say that my favorite driver is the XL...and I only throw the Wratih when I need a drive over '400.

I understand that the top players can win tournaments with mids and putters. I think the driver is playing less of a part in the game because accuracy is at a premium over distance on today's championship courses. Perhaps that is why disc manufacturers are focusing on creating new mid discs and bringing out their mids in higher quality plastic, earlier.

I also agree with you that the new dimension to the game is going to be in instructional/coaching tools and throw analysis (similar to what ball golf has these days). And, I think that is a great direction to move.

I think the new super-long discs are too unpredictable. I think they will make discs that go farther and farther, but they will just be even more unpredictable.

I think the new super-long discs are too unpredictable. I think they will make discs that go farther and farther, but they will just be even more unpredictable.



that's probably why they are called 'ultra-long distance' drivers and not 'fairway drivers' :D

it seems to me though that for most of us, if we can't be Ken Climo or the favorite to win every local tournament -- we at least want to impress (if not beat) our friends with distance ;)

i still stay with the Orc for max D, which is now almost old in terms of how many discs have come out after it, mainly because the Orc is more consistently accurate for me than the others and gets practically the same D...

My initial reaction to this post would go like this:

The future of disc golf lies not in the technology of the discs we throw, but in the skill of those who throw them.

In the new Disc Golf World, Barry answered a question regarding the up-and-comers of the sport: "They're athletes who decided to play golf, not just guys who decided to play golf, but football and baseball players -athletes. A lot of these young guys are learning from us. They're smart guys, and they learn from their mistakes."

I believe that every new generation of disc golfers introduced into the sport are going to be even more athletic and disciplined and talented, regardless of what they throw. When I first started playing in 2003, the "best: disc on the market was the Valk. Since then I have seen the release of the Beast, Orc, Wraith, and now my new go to, the TeeRex. It is incredibly apparent to me, that I can do more with the new discs than what I had to learn with. I don't even carry Valks, Beasts, or Orcs in my bags anymore, (but I do carry Starfires).

In even my short period of time, disc technology has increased and the sport has benefited from it. I'm sure that somewhere out there, some guy was saying that the Valkyrie was the best disc ever and the sport has reached its potential. But the problem with that is: we don't know the limits of potential, that�s why it is called potential.

So as far as I'm concerned, NO - this sport is not near the peak of disc technology, the market has not met every flight requirement/path, new plastics will be invented, and the demand for new discs will never cease.

Quote: Midranges are turning into the new drivers. I mean, what other midrange can Innova and Discraft create? End Quote.

I believe that the answer to that question reflects Barry's comments. The younger, talented golfers these days don't have to rely on high speed drivers to throw 300-350' holes. So why not throw a disc that gives them more control and accuracy? And why not keep manufacturing discs that offer themselves for that purpose?

I think it will all boil down to the whole "wooden bats" idea. At some point we will have to regulate the technology of the sport to maintain a competitive sport, but until then, I think we will keep re-inventing the disc.

I believe that every new generation of disc golfers introduced into the sport are going to be even more athletic and disciplined and talented, regardless of what they throw.



I agree w/ this partially. I agree that accomplishments in disc golf is still progressing in what is possible. However i wouldnt say an entire generation of DGer's are significantly better. I think the technology is limiting alot of players progress by allowing them to achieve the distance they want w/ out mastering the tecnique of a throw. How many people do you know that can throw an Aero 400' or a Viper over 500? Some still can, but the majority of golfers struggle to throw a wraith over 350'. Learning to play w/ such high tec plastic instead of learning w/ something that they can control is keeping them from progressing the way they could.

aerobie ring goes over 1000ft, when a disc does that we reached the potential. As far as wooden bats, i think we'll see a limit in rim width like C.O.R. in golf.

I think the technology is limiting a lot of players progress by allowing them to achieve the distance they want w/ out mastering the technique of a throw. How many people do you know that can throw an Aero 400' or a Viper over 500? Some still can, but the majority of golfers struggle to throw a wraith over 350'. Learning to play w/ such high tec plastic instead of learning w/ something that they can control is keeping them from progressing the way they could.



I agree. I see beginners reaching for plastic they can't control before learning how to throw properly. But I think that because kids who play sports tend to be competitive, and they will strive to have good technique. The discs they use will only enhance their abilities. But I agree that the lack of technology forced players to throw right in order to get distance and accuracy.

I think the technology is limiting a lot of players progress by allowing them to achieve the distance they want w/ out mastering the technique of a throw. How many people do you know that can throw an Aero 400' or a Viper over 500? Some still can, but the majority of golfers struggle to throw a wraith over 350'. Learning to play w/ such high tec plastic instead of learning w/ something that they can control is keeping them from progressing the way they could.



I agree. I see beginners reaching for plastic they can't control before learning how to throw properly. But I think that because kids who play sports tend to be competitive, and they will strive to have good technique. The discs they use will only enhance their abilities. But I agree that the lack of technology forced players to throw right in order to get distance and accuracy.


Its one thing to strive to have good technique but its another to try to develop it after a few years of bad technique.
There are only a few up and coming guys that have really well rounded games.
Older players like Dave Greenwell, Geoff and Johnny lissamen, Steve Wisecup, Johnny Sias, Randy Amann, Mike sullivan and a lot of other players over 40 can still easily compete in the open, especially if they were out on tour every single week.
I think the new disc a month club guys are changing their line-ups too often trying to buy themselves a game.
Going back in technology time to the Gazelle, Cyclone and Sabre and throwing a lot of mid-range and putters will help a player develop a lot faster than if they have high speed drivers from the 1st game on!
Hey ask Climo, he says grab a ultimate discs or freestyle discs and learn how to throw it well first!

In my eyes newer players, those starting after 1998, when the higher speed stuff evolved, have only become great players if they have had a great mentor.

I'm sure there are some naturals but I haven seen that many so far.

Can you guys think of some NEWER players that are on the top of the ratings or money list in the open that just emerged without a lot of coaching from an old school guy?

While I will agree the talent pool in the advanced is getting deeper, newer cashing pros are not on an exponential spike! It seems like most of the same guys that were good 5 year ago are still the ones to beat today!!!

BTW,
I would say we have only scratched the tip of the ice berg on disc tehnology, its just getting going on the aerodynamics!!!
The plastic we are using is just about as good as it gets. The engineering of mixing Thermo-plastic-Urethanes to meet certain shapes, flexibilities and surface needs will always be evolving with every new mold!

The next level of Aerodynamic technology will be on surface technologies and weight distribution, (Over molded and dimple technology will evolve very quickly over the next season or 2!!!!)

In the land of exagerated internet distances where everyone can easily throw 500+, I am surprised that there aren't more superstar players out there.



Distance is a vastly overated factor in the game of disc golf.

Those that can throw long controlled shots are the ones with the most success.

And my comment concerning the player and not the disc. A few years back, Mark bruce aka Discgolfdude, at Big D in the desert launched an Aero somewhere near 550 ft. In real life distance that's further than 98% of golfers can throw.


The top players in the world could take a few midranges and putters and still win most tournaments they play in.







Great post, for the most part. Although, I disagree with anything about "Big D in the Desert" in relation to any kind of golf shot, anywhere. Thats BS. I could throw 500ft+ in those conditions, and would have the chance maybe once a year to duplicate the setting on a real course. I wouldnt do it with an Aero, so I in no way mean to insult the huge throwers and thier feats out there...Im just saying it shouldnt be compared to golf shot distance.

.....I like to keep it simple...and I can't afford to try out every new disc that gets released)...



Brother :cool:, that�s is just a question of priorities !! You don�t have to eat everyday.... ;)

I think the technology is limiting a lot of players progress by allowing them to achieve the distance they want w/ out mastering the technique of a throw. How many people do you know that can throw an Aero 400' or a Viper over 500? Some still can, but the majority of golfers struggle to throw a wraith over 350'. Learning to play w/ such high tec plastic instead of learning w/ something that they can control is keeping them from progressing the way they could.



I agree. I see beginners reaching for plastic they can't control before learning how to throw properly.




Welcome to my world. I deal with, everyday, someone that wants a disc way beyond thier level of play. They want it because of what someone else is doing with it. In order to throw that disc, they learn bad technique and without the right guidence, they will rarely re-develop.

Besides that, its becoming almost uncommon to find someone that will actually take your advice about the basic fundamentals. Everyone has friends that already play ( most recreational ) and thats who they learn from. They dont want to learn backhand shots because they can only throw 100ft. They dont want to throw Leopards, Sabres, or XLs because they dont say "Greatest Driver You Will Ever Throw" on them, or because thier buddy doesnt sidearm/ tomahawk/ thumber those discs.

Usaully, what happens when people come into the shop, they either take my advice or dont. I advise them not to buy the fastest, most overstable disc they find. I try to steer them towards stable to understable discs, and encourage them to learn those discs and then buy more. I try to explain basic fundamentals, and install a "If you only practice one thing, practice putting" mentality to the ones that will listen.....those are the people that come back, and will hopefully teach or direct others to come to our more skilled golfers in the area.

Reading McCormacks post on here really makes alot of sense, especially when refering to mentors. Alot of these younger players making waves all have sound advice to listen to. They also were/ are mature enough to take that advice.

We are getting more instructional players, players with more tournament experiance. I try to help whoever I can, whenever I can. The biggest boost to our everyday player growth is that Jay and Des "made it" and still come back to host clinics and randoms, and people around here listen to what they have to say, basically hanging on thier teachings. Its a great thing to watch, and a testament to what good teachers can do. I feel like that work will show in the future with our caliber of player.

Am I the only person that would have expected a thread that mentioned improving power/distance from somebody named Big Mack? Now if his hair is red we may have to look into testing for banned substances here...

Reading McCormacks post on here really makes a lot of sense, especially when referring to mentors. A lot of these younger players making waves all have sound advice to listen to. They also were/ are mature enough to take that advice.



I couldn't agree more. I had the immeasurable good fortune to be shown the sport by Colin Sexton, and in turn, his bro Nate Sexton, and dad Jay Sexton. They are considered a disc golf dynasty around my parts.

Toni Hoyman (mom) - 2 Time Adv. Grandmasters World Champ
Nate - Junior World Champ 2003
Colin - 2nd place Junior Worlds 2005 (The only player in the field to give Linus a run for his money.)

I ate up everything they taught me in the early years, and it has paid off. Now I compete against Nate in the Pro division and I haven't placed outside the cash in my first 5 tournaments. (Not trying to brag, just validating McCormack's point.)

I see alot of new players as well, especially during the regular season, and the discs I usually see them use are the Wraiths, or Orcs. While both very excellent discs they are the ones you have to work up to. I was given excellent advise to start off with a 150 class fairway driver (TeeBird) and I began my career on fairway drivers (along with an aviar). It wasnt until after about 6 months that I started moving to light weight distance drivers (DX Beast), and slowly progressing with more DX distance drivers until I could up the weight and change plastic. Now, after a yr and 1/2 I can throw Pro Wraiths in 170 weights with ease, but I still cant throw overstable drivers like the Monster or TeeRex. But I know I have to work my way up to those drivers.

I think we all agree that there are too many new players trying to step off the teepad and be the best. But the new players need to realize it doesnt matter what the disc is supposed to do. Its what you can get the disc to do for you.

But the new players need to realize it doesnt matter what the disc is supposed to do. Its what you can get the disc to do for you.


With all apologies to JFK? :D

But the new players need to realize it doesnt matter what the disc is supposed to do. Its what you can get the disc to do for you.


With all apologies to JFK? :D



More out of respect.