I can throw a gateway rage around 410.

Innova Wraith 475-500' "BBA"*

But I am getting the Surge up to 430' without a full run-up, post re-hab.




* = Before Broken Ankle

If I'm really loosened up I can throw an Orc about 375

I went out to the field today (the same field where there is just one catcher, where I learned the 150 aviar) but started to pull out my discs. I brought all of my drivers and just started throwing. I got a 168 Star Orc to hyzer flip about 470 feet and a 169 Star TeeRex about 465 (these were rough estimates with measureing the length of one step and then multiplying). I had more accuracy throwing the TeeRex than the Orc.

my farthest driver is the Inferno

everyone can bomb an inferno but me all mine turnover hard. I use mine as my roller disc. I can throw it at 50% and it flies great i just wish i could throw it 100% and see what it sould do.

find a stiffer one like the newer black or yellow ones

with no wind...

my 171 Champ Viking... @350 on a level flip

sept it's almost always windy

so either a Wraith with the wind or a Starfire with a little headwind

I'm working on my noodle arm

The Orc is my most consistent long range driver and the one I reach for most. But if I feel lucky I can usually get a little more distance out of my surge and raging inferno. Also I flip the inferno as well but the raging inferno definitely fights that tendency, i plan on working more with the regular inferno(if it ever dries out) and try to get a hyzer flip on it for maybe long open shots.

At the best this year I was putting a DX Wraith (171) out to about 440. Right now, after a torn tendon in my knee, fractured thumb, pinched nerve in my back, oh and a ruptured appendix... I'm getting my year and a half old beatup Pro Wraiths out 400 to 410 at max.

I get the most consistent long distance with the Star Wraith... Maybe a 375' average distance throw, with an occasional toss over 400'. My longest throw ever was 450-460 with a Champ Orc and I have no idea how I did it. I was throwing really long that week for some reason.

I can throw a Pro Wriath upwards of 450 on golf shots and a little further throwing a distance shot (I am not sure how much further).

My furthest measured throw was with a Champion Orc (540) but I've consistently hit 480+ with a pro wraith more.

However, for golf I don't use a pro wraith. The Star Wraith,while I can't throw it as far, I can consistently throw 450 with it and that is plenty distance.

I can throw a Pro Wraith most consistently to around 350-375 feet but I have thrown my DX Wraith well past 400 a good number of times. The DX is just much less consistent. I have also had an unusual freak throw with a champ starfire that flipped really late and traveled about 425. I have not been able to repeat that though

Same for me with an Inferno to understable but a Pro Wraith will travel for me.

Max weight Z-Predator.
Mid 500's.

I could probably get the Tsunami to fly further than the Z-Pred, but I haven't tried in a while.

Max weight Z-Predator.
Mid 500's.

I could probably get the Tsunami to fly further than the Z-Pred, but I haven't tried in a while.


You are sick gwillum

golf shots: Pro Wraith-- 400-430
distance: Pro Wraith, Star TL, 150 Ch. Teebird -- 450
I still haven't learned to throw a good distance shot, maybe this year.

Longest throw 603 ft Brand new FX in 2002
Longest Roller Brand new CH Orc 680 ft, in tourney play.

the pro starfire is an easy 400' for me. but my farthest throws have come with an inferno and the rogue. consistently 450'. i have gotten the rogue out to 500' a few times.

Max weight Z-Predator.
Mid 500's.

I could probably get the Tsunami to fly further than the Z-Pred, but I haven't tried in a while.


You are sick gwillum

Lol, thanks. Funny thing is I can't throw a Surge or Wraith even close to that far.

Star TeeRex is both my farthest and most consistent distance flyer. My official record is 537'.

I have also found the Star Starfire very far flying, and performs more of a typical S curve than the Rex.

The Wraith is my go-to for big turnovers. Very fun to throw high and hard and watch it move insanely far right to left in the air!

ESP Surge.

No question it is the Star Wraith for me. With no consideration for accuracy, on flat land, no wind, and at a mile high here in Denver, I can throw it mid 500's pretty consistently (so probably 475-500 at sea level).

A VERY close second is the Flash. Thrown smoothly with speed on a hyzer this thing is fast, it flips, and glides very close to as far as my Wraith when thrown just perfectly. Unfortunately, it is still about 15 feet behind the Wraith and it isn't as consistent.

I have had some hyzer flips with the inferno 50 or so feet high go well over 550.
For hyzer all the way shots the inferno can get out there a litle over 450 and thats huge for Hyzer all the way.
Il put that up against any disc.
I will only throw the Infernos Hyzer all the way.
We played Sioux passage yesterday and we ( Nikko, Boro and I)tested the White glossy raging Inferno DT's.
They flew very similar to a broken in Nike Spirit and have one of the best hyzer hang glides Ive seen for a disc that fast.
The regular Raging infernos ( orange and domey) were a lot less stable then the glossy RI-DT and were flipping even in a tail wind.

I think once the plastic mix has more urethane in the regular RI and they are not so domey they will fly much better. they were actually more flippy than our slightly broken in Infernos.


I have thrown E and H Sabres 535-540 on several occasions with the right wind.

I have also thrown E and H Illusions between 525 and 540 and the spirit max's out at about 525.

The Blurrs and Rages cannot fly as far as the Illusions and Spirits for players with BIG arms but they are very controllable and can still get out 450 plus.
The rage is exactly like a spirit for everyone but the hardest throwers in the game! I can actually throw a brand new Rage so hard it wont even fade!

12 year ago I threw the Cyclone for distance, my personal best that were measured in competions were 584, 556 and 538.

Max weight Z-Predator.
Mid 500's.

I could probably get the Tsunami to fly further than the Z-Pred, but I haven't tried in a while.


You are sick gwillum

Lol, thanks. Funny thing is I can't throw a Surge or Wraith even close to that far.



And he does it with a one step run-up. Hmmmmm...can it be called a run-up if it's only one step?

longest drive measured to date: 169 DX teebird 485'

the inferno is the longest driver i carry (can break 420 3/5 throws)
the solf is my most accurate distance.

Tailwind: 145g DX Wraith hyzerflip
Anything else: 150g DX TeeRex anhyzer crush

threw the new Warlock about 100 feet! :D

Longest throw 603 ft Brand new FX in 2002
Longest Roller Brand new CH Orc 680 ft, in tourney play.

Ah rollers.. hehe... Highbridge Hills 1500 foot hole 8... downhill... nearly 700. Wheeeeeeeeeeeee.... Ch. Valk. It was actually stopped by a bush it seemed to be gaining speed down the slope aha...

@ the memorial i got a dx orc well past the 600' mark on hole ten the 1000+ foot hole, and since I was on one of the last cards threw another which landed about 20' to the right of the hole out of bounds, weak not getting the only 3.

Max weight Z-Predator.
Mid 500's.

I could probably get the Tsunami to fly further than the Z-Pred, but I haven't tried in a while.


You are sick gwillum

Lol, thanks. Funny thing is I can't throw a Surge or Wraith even close to that far.


Me either, small hands. Are you hyzer flipping the preds or flexing them?

I was happy with the distance I was getting out of my Z-Crushes and Z-Trackers...

Then I started throwing ESP Pulses about 80ft further than anything else...

ESP Surge.

Ditto. Only disc I can throw 400-450 consistently AND with accuracy.

nanook

Star Avair Driver.

Im getting it to hyser flip around 750ft.

I can actually get it to fly so far Im not standing in this MBD #$*&$! anymore.

Me either, small hands. Are you hyzer flipping the preds or flexing them?


Flex shot.

pro wraith

Wheeeeeeeeeeeee.... Ch. Valk. It was actually stopped by a bush it seemed to be gaining speed down the slope aha...



I read in an article by Mike Randolph that: a disc traveling downhill not only gains speed, but spins faster as well.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeee.... Ch. Valk. It was actually stopped by a bush it seemed to be gaining speed down the slope aha...



I read in an article by Mike Randolph that: a disc traveling downhill not only gains speed, but spins faster as well.



Ive seen this first hand. Faultline Classic 2004. Hole 6(?...pretty sure) DeLaveaga DGC. I cant remember who it was. It could have been Kevin Couch or maybe a Santa Cruz local. He throws a roller up the hill. It is looking good. There is only 1 thing in its way, a telephone pole. The disc hits it right in the center. We all thought it stopped, but somehow caught edge. The disc starts to trickle slowly. It manages to go for about 15 feet wobbling. Then it stands itself up and begins to pick up speed. By the time it got back down to the tee it had alot of momentum. It rolled 150 feet into the ravine behind us. His 5th shot finally made it in font of the tee pad.


My longest measured throw is 171m (561 ft). With a 165 dx Voyager. It was at Big D In The desert (the day after the record was set). Sandstron kept yelling at me "Anhyzer!! Anhyzer!!". I was basically throwing golf shots. It was before I learned the huge flex. The longest throw landed right at my measuring guys feet. Parked!!

I think I can throw a Pro Wraith furthest now, but I throw Star Wraiths for Golf D.

(He could have thrown his third shot from the tee under current rules)

DX will fly the furthest if thrown properly.

The pro line wraith here. Usually around 400-425 with control

Dx Wraith. New. 168-170 grams. White.

Wow a bunch of >500ft throwers here eh? Consistant too. That is really funny stuff. I only know of 5-6 people who can hoit 500' consistant and none of them post on here besides Mike.

Oh yeah, well I threw a DX Cheetah that I found about 4000 feet off of Aspen Mountain when I was playing the course up there. :p Would have also won the time aloft contest.

I agree i think people don't know how far they actualy can throw. Where are all these people in distance competetion, Coda can throw farther than any thing I ve ever seen but when measured it is still in the 500+ range. So everyone stop lying, and throwing downhill does not count!

I recently threw a zypher 8 trillion billion feet uphill in a headwind. Just check my rating. I dominate with my huge distance!

I agree message board distance is totally unreliable.

Champion Beast

i have only hit 500' a couple of times i max out at about 450'. consostent is about 420'. but that is not golf shots. that is wide open holes.

I have met a few people that can throw stupid far and neither of them compete in distance comps. One is Tyler Horne who has by far the longest golf shot I have ever seen. I have watched him throw a challenger over 400ft on flat Ohio land. The other player who can throw really far is Ian Hovey. At worlds he threw my Teerex over 500ft with a golf shot.

well the prototype scream i have in my bag is almost a consistent 515-520. parked a few 520ft holes with it in tourneys. also i have a black inferno thats just about the same.

I agree i think people don't know how far they actualy can throw. Where are all these people in distance competetion, Coda can throw farther than any thing I ve ever seen but when measured it is still in the 500+ range. So everyone stop lying, and throwing downhill does not count!



I missed seeing Coda at the Carrollton Open. I wish I could have seen him.

I have a plowed hay field next to my house. It is dead flat. I have measured off 440' in 100' increments with a tape.

In the winter.

I throw 380 easily.
I throw 400 pretty consistently.
I throw 420 occasionally.
I throw 440 rarely, and it takes luck.

I threw over 500' once and it was a trick of wind, nose angle and flex. Not power.

I am a rec player, and I have played with only a few people who can outdrive me consistently. The top length pros that I saw at the Carrolton Open are 75'-100' longer than me.

I agree on Tyler being one of the longest throwers I have ever seen but I don't think Ian gets 500ft very often. Maybe 1 out of 15.

If you can't throw a teebird golf shot 450 you're a #$*&$!. True story.

well the prototype scream i have in my bag is almost a consistent 515-520. parked a few 520ft holes with it in tourneys. also i have a black inferno thats just about the same.

What did you throw at state's last year? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D

Wow a bunch of >500ft throwers here eh? Consistant too. That is really funny stuff. I only know of 5-6 people who can hoit 500' consistant and none of them post on here besides Mike.

2nd, I only throw over 500 during distance comps.

Go to big D in the desert. If you have perfect conditions like I did, you will pick up an extra 100 feet, at least. I can throw 450 fairly consistent. When throwing for flat out D I can hit 500. I dont really need to defend myself, but I hate the haters (too many of em where Im from). I have plenty of witnesses for what I did that day. I am not saying I can throw 550 plus all the time.

When I really want that extra distance I always pull out an Innova mini. But I only do it on open shots it is really hard to find in the woods. :eek: :confused: ;)

170 Tee rex for me. 450 - 500 average. With pretty good accuracy. Down wind I have been able to push 550 a couple of times on flat ground. The Tee Rex flips very well.

We need to have a D contest for everyone here so they can find out how far they really throw. :D

There are 2-3 people in Tx who break 500ft consistant and I don't think that anu of the people on here posting about thier 550' D are them.

I am game once I get my ankle fully recovered.

I have only broke the big 5 double "o" twice.

And it seems that every time I enter a distance contest they have a OB grid set up into a headwind and don't measure shots landing "OB".

I have seen Mike Robinson throw a teebird well over a solid 500ft...it was freakin SICK!

Go to big D in the desert. If you have perfect conditions like I did, you will pick up an extra 100 feet, at least. I can throw 450 fairly consistent. When throwing for flat out D I can hit 500. I dont really need to defend myself, but I hate the haters (too many of em where Im from). I have plenty of witnesses for what I did that day. I am not saying I can throw 550 plus all the time.



That is why I said these are my distances in the winter. I did not have my measured range set up in the summer when it was 100 degrees plus.

I swear I have lost 50' at least in the cold air.

The Texas summer air is so thin at ground level.

I have a density meter to measure the air. In the summer I have readings that in the low 80's%. I am getting reading more like 105% right now. This means the air is substantially thicker in the winter. Thicker air means more drag. In fact, you can hear the sizzle in the cold air at launch that is totally absent in the summer.

I was pushing 500' in the summer. Of course this might take 20 throws and the perfect wind and disc choice. My longest throw in the summer on the course was 475' with an X Crush with a left to right wind. This took maybe 100 tries over several weeks of trying on hole #17 at Greenbelt in Carrolton, Texas.

I saw a young pro from Oklahoma drive that hole with a two step run up at the Carrolton Open. He was playing with another younger guy from Oklahoma that appeared to throw 70' past that hole. The disc turned over at about a 80' apex. Very impressive. He was running nearly full speed when he launched. Again, very impressive.

This is the USDGA Forum. There are some great players who post here, and I do not doubt that in the thin air of the summer, considering the discs and the power of some of the young players, that there are several that can push 500' with the right conditions.

Now, busting a drive 500' in a round with no mulligans...that is another thing.

Is that hole 500'? If so I reached 500ft throwing 80%. :DI threw an inferno right to the pin during the 1st round out there. Of course I only threw 80% because anything more would have flipped that disc over too much. :D

Is that hole 500'? If so I reached 500ft throwing 80%. :DI threw an inferno right to the pin during the 1st round out there. Of course I only threw 80% because anything more would have flipped that disc over too much. :D



No, it is 475'.

The guy I saw drive it looked like he was throwing about 80%. Longer than me!!!!

T-rex max weight easily over 500ft :D:D

Is that hole 500'? If so I reached 500ft throwing 80%. :DI threw an inferno right to the pin during the 1st round out there. Of course I only threw 80% because anything more would have flipped that disc over too much. :D



Matt, we spoke at the tourney. You showed me the Inferno at your car.

I saw you throw.

Lotta pop there for sure.

Wow a bunch of >500ft throwers here eh? Consistant too. That is really funny stuff. I only know of 5-6 people who can hoit 500' consistant and none of them post on here besides Mike.





WORD.

For maximum golf D, I throw a Star Wraith and can only push it out near 375-400. Usually, I end up in the 325-350 range.

I have never learned how to throw for pure distance, but I suspect if I knew, my E Inferno might be the disc for me to throw for that..

Wow a bunch of >500ft throwers here eh? Consistant too. That is really funny stuff. I only know of 5-6 people who can hoit 500' consistant and none of them post on here besides Mike.





WORD.



Ryan Gwillim throws 500 ft. This is something I've seen him do a few times with my own two peepers.

Dx Wraith. New. 168-170 grams. White.



This is one of the disc's I can throw farthest , not my farthest thrown disc.

That is from Ken Jarvis , signed and dated , as the Worlds Third longest thrown Golf Disc ever from the Big D in the desert !!!!!! Just after that , he marked Christian Sandstroms longest Drive , besting Ken's mark by 2 meters !!!!!!

Christian also had a Additional 5 MPH wind , more than when Ken was throwing !!!!!


Still , I have one of the Disc's thrown over 800 feet.................in the Air from flat ground !!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Thanks Ken !!!!!

Donny Olow


Oh , the longest roller is over 1000+ feet by the way !!!! :D

#1 DX Wraith
#2 Pro Orc (Can't believe this disc was discontinued!) I love the way this disc flies.

Wow a bunch of >500ft throwers here eh? Consistant too. That is really funny stuff. I only know of 5-6 people who can hoit 500' consistant and none of them post on here besides Mike.





WORD.



Ryan Gwillim throws 500 ft. This is something I've seen him do a few times with my own two peepers.



He wasn't throwing that far when we played at EI. :DThen again there was only two holes you had to throw far on.

He wasn't throwing that far when we played at EI. :DThen again there was only two holes you had to throw far on.


http://www.aesthetic-mindset.com/images/disc/scooter.jpg
That's all I got to say about that! :p


Seriously though, throwing 500' on a 350' hole doesn't do any good. And the two holes that are over 500' aren't worth the extra effort. One is downhill and a 500' crush would actually land you on the green, which is OB, which would be dumb. I've landed on the green once and the penalty stroke wasn't as cool as you would think! The other hole has a 20' high fence and then some trees just to the right of the teepad not allowing me to get the correct angle out for a 500' throw. I happily settle for a 420-450' controlled shot in this case. I do throw 600' rollers on that hole when I want to, but they don't always stop when I want and often roll into the sandtraps or onto the green making it a bad shot for singles rounds, I only do it screwing around or when playing dubs. Next time you are out we can go to a field with my metering wheel and have a little fun.

I don't exaggerate my abilities because I don't need to :).

Pro Orc (Can't believe this disc was discontinued!) I love the way this disc flies.



thank you

He wasn't throwing that far when we played at EI. :DThen again there was only two holes you had to throw far on.


http://www.aesthetic-mindset.com/images/disc/scooter.jpg
That's all I got to say about that! :p



You shot a 52 right? Well i shot a 51, 51, and finaly a 48 after the horror of 6 Ob's my 1st round out there.

You shot a 52 right? Well i shot a 51, 51, and finaly a 48 after the horror of 6 Ob's my 1st round out there.

Yes you did, but not when you were playing against me. That's the difference, my friend.

Yeah 6 Obs when you can't judge the D was the difference. :D

Sorry about the thread drift, it's my fault.

Scooter, you are good, I am not quite as good. Let's discuss this elsewhere if there is more we need to say.

And now back to your regularly broadcasted distance bragging...

I throw 600' with a paper plate. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I throw 600' with a paper plate. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


Ryan throws 650' with a putter. :D

i once threw 1000 feet.

(okay i never counted how many feet it actually had, but it was a thousand-legger i took from the bathtub and then threw outdoors when i was a kid)

I have seen Mike Robinson throw a teebird well over a solid 500ft...it was freakin SICK!



watching Mike Robinson throw D is definitely worth the price of admission. he gets a ton of height.
i wonder if he ever has tried MTA (maximum time aloft)... ?

*pokes head into thread*

Neat! a distance thread...
To answer the main question:

Accuracy: Raging Inferno
Raw D: Pro Orc or Beast




watching Mike Robinson throw D is definitely worth the price of admission. he gets a ton of height.
i wonder if he ever has tried MTA (maximum time aloft)... ?



I have, but I don't really practice it since there aren't many overall events in these parts.

Hi Mike :D

MTA is so much fun that the lack of events does not deter me, but you really need someone else too so you can time each other and spur each other on. my best time is 13 seconds (MTA-weight Condor)

cool to see you mention the Pro Orc. Was it a Pro Wraith you threw up to the top of that one long uphill hole (13?) and park it at Toboggan last year? :confused:

you probably don't remember it but you and i talked and we were both pretty bummed after our perfomances at the USADGC last year. looks like we both have done okay as Pros -- but i have had the advantage of being old (Masters), whereas you've done quite well in Open. Congrats! it may be a bit of a thread drift but your putting was your big concern when we talked -- what did you do to improve it?

also do you like white or black Infernos and how do they compare to Pro Orcs?

I agree i think people don't know how far they actually can throw. Where are all these people in distance competition, Coda can throw farther than any thing I ve ever seen but when measured it is still in the 500+ range.

I know Dion is telling the truth because I was there measuring the D with a laser range finder (flat ground, zero wind). There were 3 people with 500ft+ throws during that particular competition (and none of them are touring pros).

I agree i think people don't know how far they actually can throw. Where are all these people in distance competition, Coda can throw farther than any thing I ve ever seen but when measured it is still in the 500+ range.

I know Dion is telling the truth because I was there measuring the D with a laser range finder (flat ground, zero wind). There were 3 people with 500ft+ throws during that particular competition (and none of them are touring pros).

I can also vouch for Dion. He can hit it in the 5s.

Proline Orc

This is a list of all throws 170+ meters in WFDF sanctioned events.
big throws (http://discgolfvalues.com/bigd_distance.htm)

wow, isn't that Mark of www.discgolfvalues.com (http://www.discgolfvalues.com) ?

27th: 2002 Mark Molnar USA El Mirage, CA, USA 198m 649.6ft 216.53yds

:eek: :D

Nice !!!!!

Yea , this is the Current List.

Big Throws (http://discgolfvalues.com/bigd_distance.htm)

Nobody cares how far I throw or what disc I do it with so I am not telling. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

wow, isn't that Mark of www.discgolfvalues.com (http://www.discgolfvalues.com) ?

27th: 2002 Mark Molnar USA El Mirage, CA, USA 198m 649.6ft 216.53yds

:eek: :D



Mark also threw 192m for the Nevada State record. That was a very huge throw. He has a great big D throw.

That is definitely a list Im proud to be on, although I barely made it. ;)

1993 Kurt Karlsson SWE Link�ping, SWE 187.69 615.78 205.26



That guy now lives in Australia, where he's trying to organize courses in Sydney, and got a chance to play with him while overseas. He's a great guy, and has a cannon to boot.

wow, isn't that Mark of www.discgolfvalues.com (http://www.discgolfvalues.com) ?

27th: 2002 Mark Molnar USA El Mirage, CA, USA 198m 649.6ft 216.53yds

:eek: :D



Mark also threw 192m for the Nevada State record. That was a very huge throw. He has a great big D throw.

That is definitely a list Im proud to be on, although I barely made it. ;)



what disc (model, plastic type, weight) did you throw and do you know what Mark used the times he made the list?

Billy lund from oklahoma threw 570 ft to set the oklahoma distance record why isnt he on the list?

cool to see you mention the Pro Orc. Was it a Pro Wraith you threw up to the top of that one long uphill hole (13?) and park it at Toboggan last year? :confused:



Yep, a Pro Wraith.


you probably don't remember it but you and i talked and we were both pretty bummed after our perfomances at the USADGC last year. looks like we both have done okay as Pros -- but i have had the advantage of being old (Masters), whereas you've done quite well in Open. Congrats! it may be a bit of a thread drift but your putting was your big concern when we talked -- what did you do to improve it?



Thanks! Well the putting part, I completely redid (is that a word?) my putt. I went from staggered and learned how to straddle, which helped a lot. Now I can do both equally well.


also do you like white or black Infernos and how do they compare to Pro Orcs?



Infernos are infernos to me, I never thought about comparing the two. Now that you've said something, the infernos are real pro orc like with a bit more stability.



To get this thread back on track...who throws far?

wow,you guys can throw 500 meters?????
That must be a world record!!!!

I think my average is 300 feet to be honest but pretty darn accurate.I have won many Masters titles with my game(but that is maybe also because I can putt pretty good at times).

But if I have to say one disc...Pro Wraith!

We need to have a D contest for everyone here so they can find out how far they really throw. :D

There are 2-3 people in Tx who break 500ft consistant and I don't think that anu of the people on here posting about thier 550' D are them.

There are so many guys in NW Ohio that think they can throw 500ish... Ridiculous how many there are really. I'm proud enough with saying I can throw a DX Wraith, on an all out huck, 440ish... 400 feet as my avg. golf max. Good enough for me right now.

Unless I'm throwing a Polecat. I've thrown those 650.

It has also to do in what type of weather you play...
If you play in sunny weather(like Texas or California)then the heating from the planet,will make your disc fly further!
I always throw further in the summer!
Now it is freaking cold overhere(The Netherlands)and my muscles are cold,and my discs and they just don't fly that far...Give me some rays and I'll show you! :D

Billy Lund from oklahoma threw 570 ft to set the oklahoma distance record why isnt he on the list?



570 ft = around 174 meters so the Oklahoma state distance contest you mention must not have been judged by certified wfdf officials or didn't meet www.wfdf.org (http://www.wfdf.org) standards or something...