I put together this table to show how the Worlds courses have transformed over the past 10 years. It includes the estimates for the three of the four courses at Highbridge that the Open division will play. They are listed in descending SSA order and are definitely getting longer/tougher.

<table border="1"><tr><td> Configuration Name</td><td>Course</td><td>City</td><td>State</td><td>Holes</td><td>SSA 18</td><td>Worlds
</td></tr><tr><td>Nockamixon - PW2005</td><td>Nockamixon</td><td>Quakertown</td><td>PA</td><td>18</td><td>67.0</td><td>2005
</td></tr><tr><td>Highbridge Gold - PW2007</td><td>Highbridge Gold</td><td>Highbridge</td><td>WI</td><td>18</td><td>62.6</td><td>2007
</td></tr><tr><td>Hippodrome - PW2006</td><td>Hippodrome</td><td>N. Augusta</td><td>SC</td><td>18</td><td>62.5</td><td>2006
</td></tr><tr><td>Walnut Ridge - PAW2004</td><td>Walnut Ridge</td><td>Des Moines</td><td>IA</td><td>18</td><td>57.0</td><td>2004
</td></tr><tr><td>Granite Ridge - PW2007</td><td>Granite Ridge</td><td>Highbridge</td><td>WI</td><td>18</td><td>56.5</td><td>2007
</td></tr><tr><td>Little Lehigh - PW2005</td><td>Little Lehigh</td><td>Allentown</td><td>PA</td><td>18</td><td>56.5</td><td>2005
</td></tr><tr><td>Pickard - PAW2004</td><td>Pickard</td><td>Indianola</td><td>IA</td><td>18</td><td>56.3</td><td>2004
</td></tr><tr><td>Big Creek - PAW2004</td><td>Big Creek</td><td>Polk City</td><td>IA</td><td>18</td><td>56.0</td><td>2004
</td></tr><tr><td>Jordan Creek - PW2005</td><td>Jordan Creek</td><td>Allentown</td><td>PA</td><td>18</td><td>56.0</td><td>2005
</td></tr><tr><td>Kensington - Toboggan</td><td>Kensington</td><td>Milford</td><td>MI</td><td>18</td><td>55.1</td><td>2000
</td></tr><tr><td>Cass Benton</td><td>Cass Benton</td><td>Northville</td><td>MI</td><td>18</td><td>55.0</td><td>2000
</td></tr><tr><td>Ewing - PAW2004</td><td>Ewing</td><td>Des Moines</td><td>IA</td><td>18</td><td>55.0</td><td>2004
</td></tr><tr><td>Tinicum - PW2005</td><td>Tinicum</td><td>Erwinna</td><td>PA</td><td>18</td><td>55.0</td><td>2005
</td></tr><tr><td>Oakwood - PW2001</td><td>Oakwood</td><td>Cottage Grove</td><td>MN</td><td>18</td><td>55.0</td><td>2001
</td></tr><tr><td>Lake Olmstead - PW2006</td><td>Lake Olmstead</td><td>Augusta</td><td>GA</td><td>18</td><td>53.8</td><td>2006
</td></tr><tr><td>North Valley - PW2001</td><td>North Valley</td><td>Inver Grove Hts</td><td>MN</td><td>18</td><td>53.8</td><td>2001
</td></tr><tr><td>C. P. Adams - PW2001</td><td>CP Adams</td><td>Hastings</td><td>MN</td><td>18</td><td>53.6</td><td>2001
</td></tr><tr><td>Kaposia - PW2001</td><td>Kaposia</td><td>St. Paul</td><td>MN</td><td>18</td><td>53.5</td><td>2001
</td></tr><tr><td>Blueberry Hill - PW2007</td><td>Blueberry Hill</td><td>Highbridge</td><td>WI</td><td>18</td><td>53.5</td><td>2007
</td></tr><tr><td>Mt. Airy</td><td>Mt. Airy</td><td>Cincinnati</td><td>OH</td><td>18</td><td>53.1</td><td>1998
</td></tr><tr><td>Wilmont - PW2002</td><td>Wilmont</td><td>Houston</td><td>TX</td><td>18</td><td>52.9</td><td>2002
</td></tr><tr><td>Little America - PW2003</td><td>Little America</td><td>Flagstaff</td><td>AZ</td><td>18</td><td>52.5</td><td>2003
</td></tr><tr><td>Hornets Nest</td><td>Hornets Nest</td><td>Charlotte</td><td>NC</td><td>18</td><td>52.4</td><td>1997
</td></tr><tr><td>Thorpe - PW2003</td><td>Thorpe</td><td>Flagstaff</td><td>AZ</td><td>18</td><td>52.1</td><td>2003
</td></tr><tr><td>Snowbowl - PW2003</td><td>Snowbowl</td><td>Flagstaff</td><td>AZ</td><td>18</td><td>52.0</td><td>2003
</td></tr><tr><td>Tournament - PW2002</td><td>Tournament</td><td>Houston</td><td>TX</td><td>18</td><td>51.3</td><td>2002
</td></tr><tr><td>Northern Arizona U. - PW2003</td><td>Northern Arizona U.</td><td>Flagstaff</td><td>AZ</td><td>18</td><td>51.2</td><td>2003
</td></tr><tr><td>Powell - PW2002</td><td>Powell</td><td>Houston</td><td>TX</td><td>18</td><td>51.2</td><td>2002
</td></tr><tr><td>Lakeside - PW2002</td><td>Lakeside</td><td>Houston</td><td>TX</td><td>18</td><td>51.1</td><td>2002
</td></tr><tr><td>Riverview - PW2006</td><td>Riverview</td><td>N. Augusta</td><td>SC</td><td>18</td><td>50.5</td><td>2006
</td></tr><tr><td>Big Ox</td><td>Miami University</td><td>Miami</td><td>OH</td><td>18</td><td>50.1</td><td>1998
</td></tr><tr><td>Chili Park - PW1999</td><td>Chili Disc Golf</td><td>Chili</td><td>NY</td><td>18</td><td>50.1</td><td>1999
</td></tr><tr><td>Kensington - Original (Tunnel)</td><td>Kensington</td><td>Milford</td><td>MI</td><td>18</td><td>49.8</td><td>2000
</td></tr><tr><td>Hudson Mills - Monster</td><td>Hudson Mills</td><td>Dexter</td><td>MI</td><td>24</td><td>49.5</td><td>2000
</td></tr><tr><td>Cabin Creek</td><td>Cabin Creek</td><td>Butler County</td><td>OH</td><td>18</td><td>49.1</td><td>1998
</td></tr><tr><td>Rapid Run</td><td>Rapid Run</td><td>Cincinnati</td><td>OH</td><td>18</td><td>49.1</td><td>1998
</td></tr><tr><td>Grandview - PAW2004</td><td>Grandview</td><td>Des Moines</td><td>IA</td><td>18</td><td>49.0</td><td>2004
</td></tr><tr><td>Iowa State U. - PAW2004</td><td>Iowa State U.</td><td>Ames</td><td>IA</td><td>18</td><td>49.0</td><td>2004
</td></tr><tr><td>Pendleton King - PW2006</td><td>Pendleton King</td><td>Augusta</td><td>GA</td><td>18</td><td>49.0</td><td>2006
</td></tr><tr><td>Ellison Park - PW1999</td><td>Ellison Park</td><td>Ellison</td><td>NY</td><td>18</td><td>49.0</td><td>1999
</td></tr><tr><td>Gennesse Valley - PW1999</td><td>Gennessee Valley</td><td>Rochester</td><td>NY</td><td>18</td><td>48.4</td><td>1999
</td></tr><tr><td>Hudson Mills - Original long</td><td>Hudson Mills</td><td>Dexter</td><td>MI</td><td>24</td><td>48.1</td><td>2000
</td></tr><tr><td>Black Creek Park - PW1999</td><td>Black Creek</td><td>Rochester</td><td>NY</td><td>18</td><td>47.8</td><td>1999
</td></tr><tr><td>Hudson Mills - Campground green</td><td>Hudson Mills</td><td>Dexter</td><td>MI</td><td>24</td><td>47.8</td><td>2000
</td></tr><tr><td> </tr></td></table>

Here's summary showing the average SSA of courses played by Open before the semi-finals in the past 9 Pro Worlds plus the plan for Highbridge this summer.

<table border="1"><tr><td> Worlds</td><td>Worlds</td><td>Open</td><td>Rounds
</td></tr><tr><td>Location</td><td>Year</td><td>SSA</td><td>Pre-Semi
</td></tr><tr><td>Allentown, PA</td><td>2005</td><td>58.9</td><td>7
</td></tr><tr><td>Highbridge, WI</td><td>2007</td><td>57.5</td><td>6
</td></tr><tr><td>Augusta, GA</td><td>2006</td><td>54.8</td><td>6
</td></tr><tr><td>Twin Cities, MN</td><td>2001</td><td>54.0</td><td>7
</td></tr><tr><td>Des Moines, IA</td><td>2004</td><td>53.5</td><td>8
</td></tr><tr><td>Flagstaff, AZ</td><td>2003</td><td>52.0</td><td>6
</td></tr><tr><td>Houston, TX</td><td>2002</td><td>51.6</td><td>8
</td></tr><tr><td>Ann Arbor, MI</td><td>2000</td><td>50.9</td><td>7eq
</td></tr><tr><td>Cincinnati, OH</td><td>1998</td><td>50.4</td><td>7
</td></tr><tr><td>Rochester, NY</td><td>1999</td><td>48.8</td><td>8
</td></tr><tr><td> </tr></td></table>
You can see that the courses are getting longer/tougher on average and the number of rounds in the prelims is decreasing to accommodate longer rounds and still try to keep the prelims 4 days long. For the first time, players will only have to learn three courses at Highbridge this summer and get to play each one twice.

Allentown may retain the Worlds record as the most grueling experience for quite a while with the highest SSA average, a 5-day prelim schedule, hot temps and commutes up to an hour. I think it showed that if courses over 65 SSA are used by a future host, there may need to be fewer prelim rounds and possibly stagger starts on those courses for one round days.

The PDGA event guidelines indicate that using courses with SSA less than 49 is not desireable for the Open division at A-tiers and higher levels. I think that number might need to increase to maybe 51 to provide the appropriate challenge for gold level players.

Ideally, you want to get some variety in the foliage, terrain and lengths of courses used. Three of the four courses used at Houston and Flagstaff were relatively the same in these characteristics and you can see how tight the SSA distributions are for these courses. Two of the Twin Cities courses were similar but the other two were quite different from these two and each other, even though the SSAs ended up very close to each other. It makes it convenient for tight scheduling which was required until recent years to get enough rounds played before the semis.

Our newer approach of scheduling just two rounds on a course per day allows a wider range of course SSAs to be used. Even though some considered the Augusta courses easier than normal, the addition of Hippodrome moved the Augusta Worlds into second place for average SSA until this summer. Augusta holds the record for the largest difference in SSA of 13.5 between the toughest and easiest course used for Open.

Wow, what a dichotomy between courses in both years 2000 and 2004. During the former, you had two of the highest SSA courses over the last ten years (Toboggan, Cass Benton) along with four of the lowest. And in the latter, you had four of the highest (Walnut Ridge, Pickard, Big Creek, Ewing) contrasted with "pushovers" Grandview and ISU.


The PDGA event guidelines indicate that using courses with SSA less than 49 is not desireable for the Open division at A-tiers and higher levels. I think that number might need to increase to maybe 51 to provide the appropriate challenge for gold level players.



My vote is yes for NT events and Pro Worlds, and no for A-tiers and below - that may exclude a lot of tournaments if their course "isn't up to snuff" or force a lot of extra work for tournament directors to make course alterations or temporary tees / pin locations in order to meet the requirement.

for worlds i disagree. if there are going to be 4-6 courses played in the event i think there should be an "easy" course- the mindset required for playing these deuce or die type courses differs greatly from that needed on more difficult ones. both, imo, contribute to being a complete test of skills.

Courses with SSAs near 51 are still deuce or die for top open players. A 1030 rated player would be expected to shoot a 48 on average and will shoot 43-44 on occasion. That's at least half the holes being 2s, plus birdie 3s on each of the few par 4s on a course like that. One "dart course" with an SSA near 51 is certainly fine in a mix of courses although I don't expect more than 4 to be used for Pro Worlds again. Am Worlds may continue to have 4-6 courses since their bias seems to be toward more courses versus necessarily playing each course twice which seems to be the pro preference.

Thanks for info Chuck. Very interesting.


Allentown may retain the Worlds record as the most grueling experience for quite a while with the highest SSA average, a 5-day prelim schedule, hot temps and commutes up to an hour. I think it showed that if courses over 65 SSA are used by a future host, there may need to be fewer prelim rounds and possibly stagger starts on those courses for one round days.



I gotta disagree here. This conclusion must have been drawn from the survey of pansies. ;)

Being a SSA of 67 doesn't mean that it is physically grueling, nor does it mean that one couldn't play those courses at least twice during a day. Worlds should almost always have at least three days of two rounds per day, with one or two days of rest/spectating/relaxation.

As for A tiers and NTs, I totally agree with the making them tougher. A high 50s, low 60s should be a minimum. Jeff has a legitimate concern, but running an A tier comes with responsibility. Part of that responsibility should cover course toughening for the event. For worlds, I have no problem with one low SSA course being used, but make sure it is still challenging like the shorter course in Allentown, or the more demanding shorter course in Augusta (Sorry, I'm bad with names).

You don't hear ball golf events that use multiple courses throwing in a par 3 course because it tests additional skills. Well done disc golf courses with SSAs over 54 that have more par 4s & 5s will still test all of the skills any deuce or die course can offer.

i didn't realize we were talking about ball golf. imo you cannot draw a direct comparison between the two. for one thing, disc golf courses are far more diverse as is the behavior of a disc in flight as opposed to a ball. i continue to believe that a "deuce or die" course tests a different set of MENTAL skills than more difficult courses which offer more chances for recovery/error mitigation.

imo an ideal set of 4 courses would feature one of ssa 50 or so, one 65+, and two in between.

that would be great Ideally, but will hardly ever happen.

imo an ideal set of 4 courses would feature one of ssa 50 or so, one 65+, and two in between.

i agree

I agree that deuce or die tests a different mental skill but it's more like that required for bowling or shooting where being able to repeat the same actions without wavering is key. While that's been a skill set required in DG at the highest levels on some courses, I'm not sure it's intentional for the sport but accidental as our sport grew up with longer discs on the same courses. Our early freelance course designers had legit par 4s and 5s in their layouts for the disc technology of the time.

Golf in general is more about creativity and judgment to select and execute the proper shot at random times in the round that you may have practiced extensively. But other than putts, the same shot is hopefully not repeated regularly. For example, in California doubles, we don't let the single player throw a second putt immediately after a miss but wait until others have putted before they're allowed to make their second putt try. Why? To avoid grooving the shot. If anything, a designer tries to reduce as much repetition as possible so the player doesn't use the same disc over and over again off the tee or fairway.

Another reason to avoid deuce or die in majors is the "homer factor" where the locals have every tee shot grooved. Let's make sure all players have to think a little, even the locals.

I agree that deuce or die tests a different mental skill but it's more like that required for bowling or shooting where being able to repeat the same actions without wavering is key.



this is not true for a well designed "short" course such as Earlewood Park in columbia,sc. (best short course in the world imo) Although every hole is reachable you must execute a different shot on every hole. I am not advocating the use of short courses (or longer ones for that matter) that are not well designed.

I played Earlewood for the first time in October and I agree it's one of the better short courses around. As good as it may be, I think Harold would agree it's not a suitable challenge for Gold level players in higher level competitions, but certainly fun to play. I think if he had the opportunity, he might want to reduce the fast (lucky) greens on a few of them similar to what he's done on Winthrop 18 (before this year).

for worlds i disagree. if there are going to be 4-6 courses played in the event i think there should be an "easy" course- the mindset required for playing these deuce or die type courses differs greatly from that needed on more difficult ones. both, imo, contribute to being a complete test of skills.



John Biscoe,

You're the designer & owner of what is widely reported as one of the premiere high SSA courses in the country - the Hawk Hollow course. I would think that you especially fully realize the superiority of courses with predominantly pro par four and pro par five holes. Therefore, it seems strange for me to see you espousing the archaic and primitive concept of deuce or die courses that dominated our scene for so long.

While these types of courses are excellent for recreational players learning the game, casual play, and less competitive events, I truly don't understand why we continue to advocate these types of layouts for Gold-level play. I honestly get embarassed when I see players shooting a 40 or 41 in a National Tour or Pro Worlds, as occurred at a 2005 NT event and at Pro Worlds 2004. In my opinion, these types of scores look silly to both the outside world and within the disc golf world.

i do believe the best courses are those with a balance of par 3,4, and 5 holes and i will continue to design them given the space. however i also believe that scoring well on a short(er) course requires a different mental skill set than scoring well on a long course and that in a worlds style competition ALL aspects of a player's game should ideally be tested. imo there is (and should continue to be) a place for well-designed shorter courses such as ellison, hudson mills original, and pendleton king in top competition.

i don't know that this necessarily applies to events where the number of rounds is significantly less.

i also don't believe there is anything about scoring trends which causes disc golf to be taken less seriously by those outside the sport- the simple fact that we are throwing frisbees takes care of that.

This is a topic I like to talk about- low SSA course skills vs. high SSA course skills.
I think that low SSA (or short) courses are just putting contests. For instance, Hudson Mills Original shorts. I would say that out of the 24 holes here, 20 are definately reachable by an AM1. So, the numbers and percentages will vary depending on course and division, but this is my (rough) hypothesis.
Let's take AM1's: On any of these 20 holes, 80% of Am1's will be putting for deuce from anywhere between 20' and 50'. A little less than 10% will be inside 20, and a little more than 10% will be outside 50'. I believe this to be the case. So, playing these short courses is a putting contest. An Am1 would deuce the little less than 10% of holes that they are inside 20'. They would par the little more than 10% of holes that they are outside of 50'. So, there are 16 holes left of just putting contests. They throw a drive. If they make a putt, they deuce. If they don't, they par. If an Am1 has the skills to usually make half of his/her putts at 35', they will shoot -10.

Ok to sum up this rambling: Tournaments on short courses are nearly pure putting contests.

I like courses that incorporate many different types of holes, shorter deuce-or-die holes, longer par 4's, and lots of hard-to-birdie par3's. (for instance, toboggan)

If 80% drive to land between 20 and 50 feet, that will produce a pretty wide putting gap for AM1s. Those who consistently drive within 25 feet should whip those who consistently land 40 feet out --- none are going to hit a high percentage of 40-50 foot putts. While putting is magnified on a short course, precision driving is more likely to determine the outcome.

If you look at all pars(3,4,5) every hole will have two putts to achieve par. With that in mind par 72 would give you 36 putts for 50% of the game. In a par 54 and 36 putts gives you 66%. So you are only talking about 16% difference.

So I wouldn't agree that a par 54 is all about putting. This game is about putting! If you can't putt you will never succeed in this game or traditional golf.

The future of disc golf is moving toward par 72. That is not to say par 54 does not have its place. There are lots of par 54's in traditional golf, however you will not see a pga tournament on a par 54. I'm sure someone out there will find some par 54 pga tournament, but you get the point. Par 54's need to start going away for Majors and NT's.

If you look at all pars(3,4,5) every hole will have two putts to achieve par. With that in mind par 72 would give you 36 putts for 50% of the game. In a par 54 and 36 putts gives you 66%. So you are only talking about 16% difference.

So I wouldn't agree that a par 54 is all about putting. This game is about putting! If you can't putt you will never succeed in this game or traditional golf.

The future of disc golf is moving toward par 72. That is not to say par 54 does not have its place. There are lots of par 54's in traditional golf, however you will not see a pga tournament on a par 54. I'm sure someone out there will find some par 54 pga tournament, but you get the point. Par 54's need to start going away for Majors and NT's.



I was talking about only low SSA courses, not all par 54 courses. I used Hudson Mills Original shorts as an example. 24 holes, par 72 (Par3), SSA 59 (-13).

I agree, par 4 golf is a much better test of skills than par 3 golf, and is more fun too! The future of DG should start going that way.
Agreed, the whole game is all about putting.