This rule comes up all the time but people have lots of non-rule rules about it.

Is there a limit to what you can use as a supporting point behind the mini? We all know you can't touch anything in front of the mini, but people have different non-rules about what you can touch behind the mini.

You can touch the ground. You can put your foot up on a rock. You can't step on a dog. You can lean back against the trunk of a tree but you can't hold onto a tree. You can kneel on a log but you can't hold the hand of your caddy.

What can and can't you use as supporting points? Specifically, since people say you can lean against a tree root or stump, or even a large tree trunk, but can't hold onto a small tree or branch, then how can you distinguish?

Any point that is supporting some weight, though I bet a finger with very little weight would qualify. As for what is behind the mini, you have to refer to the rules, but in short, you may hold on to anything (see Q&A:Maintaining Balance While Putting), but you must be careful to minimize the amount of movement of any permenant item (803.04 D). If it appears that you shook the tree I believe some would argue that you have not minimized the movement of the object in contact.

I believe that using a caddy to maintain balance is not acceptable, because one it is an unfair advantage and two you are not maintaining your own balance, but using someone else to maintain it.

As for the distinguishing it all has to do with least amount of movement. A large tree is not going to move appreciably, a small one will. Same amount of force may be used, but it is the way the rule is written.




This rule comes up all the time but people have lots of non-rule rules about it.

Is there a limit to what you can use as a supporting point behind the mini? We all know you can't touch anything in front of the mini, but people have different non-rules about what you can touch behind the mini.

You can touch the ground. You can put your foot up on a rock. You can't step on a dog. You can lean back against the trunk of a tree but you can't hold onto a tree. You can kneel on a log but you can't hold the hand of your caddy.

What can and can't you use as supporting points? Specifically, since people say you can lean against a tree root or stump, or even a large tree trunk, but can't hold onto a small tree or branch, then how can you distinguish?

So basically, you can touch anything so long as you don't move it.

Folks are always telling me you can't hold onto a small tree or branch, I can tell them to stuff it now. Thanks

That's probably correct. When you put your weight on a small tree or branch, it moves. Therefore, you can't use it.

i thought the deciding factor was if it is in front of or behind your lie -- and if it is behind you can lean or hold onto it all you like.

right? (!)

One common misconception - 3 of 4 top Pro players in a 4-some at the DGLO last year didn't fully know it - is that you cannot move a twig or branch or stone that is lying behind your mini where you want to plant your foot if any portion of it sticks out in front of your lie.

I think the rule is unclear regarding leaning on a big tree trunk behind your lie (that won't move) when there are branches out in front of your lie. I can't remember a time when a player in my group wasn't allowed to lean on the trunk but I would think only a telephone pole might work according to the strict reading of the rule.

The Q&A is pretty clear.


Rule Question: Maintaining balance while putting
Question
"I have a good rules question for you involving the stance rules. A player uses an object (in this case a branch) behind him to maintain balance for a putt. First, would this be considered "full control of balance"? Second, could you argue, if the branch is not so large that the players body weight will not move it, that it is a violation of 803.03 D and or 803.04 A because they could have moved the branch less by not hanging on it? Thanks for any input."

Response
The question can be boiled down to: Can a player hold on to an object behind his lie to maintain balance while throwing/putting?

Applicable rules:


803.04 (Stance)
803.05 (Obstacles and Relief)
804.05 (Disqualification and Suspension)

Discussion:

The rules do not require that you maintain your balance while putting. You can have a grand mal seizure as long as you don't step ahead of your lie. At the time you decide to step ahead of your lie is when you have to demonstrate balance. This is simply to prove that you are not committing a falling putt, such that you would not be able to stop yourself from falling forward due to the motion of your putt. Grabbing a branch is merely acquiring another support point, which is perfectly legal, as long as it is not ahead of your lie.

Holding on to something BEHIND your lie is not prohibited by the rules, provided that the tree that the golfer is using as a supporting point is in-bounds (803.03.A (3)).

The branch must not be moved, or else the player would be in violation of one or both of 803.04.D and 803.05.A, which require you to take the stance that results in the least movement of objects that are part of the course and which prohibit you from moving a branch to "make room for a throwing motion".

Conclusion:

A player can hold on to something behind her lie, in certain circumstances, without violating the PDGA rules. In general that which is not prohibited by the PDGA rules is allowed, provided of course, that the action done by the player is not considered "a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play". (This, of course, is cheating!)

Other Comments:

Many members of the committee have actually tried to hold on to some object behind their lie, while leaning forward to throw or putt. In our opinion this action makes the ensuing throw/putt MORE difficult to accomplish.

The PDGA Rules Committee

Carlton Howard, Chair
John Chapman
Conrad Damon
Harold Duvall
Joe Garcia
Jim Garnett
Rick Voakes

That's probably correct. When you put your weight on a small tree or branch, it moves. Therefore, you can't use it.


Yes, you can, according to the Q&A right above. It just can't move, and unlike something posted a few posts ago, you can't back into a bush or tree or tumbleweed and hold it back in order to get a stance. That's moving the fauna (or is it flora?) That's where the unplayable lie rule comes in.