Why can't I just vote for Pain in the butt?

I am pleasantly surprised that people here are learning to not feed the trolls.

Even though I do not know him, my guess is that he is intelligent and informed and chooses to construct his posts and the points he is trying to make in a way that will get a rise out of people. Only a few are falling for the bait these days. That is a good thing for those of us who hold out hope that this space can be used constructively for the betterment of the game.

....is a nice guy not scared to voice his feelings towards a certain organization known as the PDGA.

must be informed because he got his hobbies listed correctly on his profile :p

(ranting & raving)

Nice guys can be trolls and engage in trolling behavior/posts. I suggest that those who care about this space slap a warning/reminder up when a trollish post shows up. That way, the unsuspecting can be alerted and the person can rephrase their post if they are really serious and want to get serious responses.

http://www.hiho.org/DoNotFeedTroll.jpg

His post about the forclosure of PDGA finances was good in my opinion... His posts could have been a little more civil however but I think he is informed.

is my 3rd favorite poster, and is my #1 PDGA watchdog

Someone tell me how to vote!

I'm not smart enough to do my own thinking like the troll-detecting sleuths!

Actually, the correct answer is : Knows too much for his own good.

Mikey is funny......come on......give him sum respecTT

I assume Mikey's been banned? I havent heard anything from him today..

Not yet. Apparently the lovely, dear, sweet, humble, beautiful, benign, bubbly, and uberintellectual Moderators have determined that free speech, creativity, and above all else, intelligent discourse are welcome on the PDGA message board after all. SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!!! (latin scholars please correct me if that is incorrect).

A dumber poster would have made a pun about "discourse" having the word "disc" in it, but it's so unoriginal that only ED's would use that attempting humor.

Pending appeal, per PDGA Discussion Board Rules, Mike Kernan has been subjected to 3 month posting suspension after recent posts of his were deleted due to personal attacks.

Let's make sure one thing is clear: dissension can be a valuable tool for an organization and is permitted on the PDGA Discussion Board. However, overt name-calling and personal attacks are not. If he cannot present his rebellion, criticism & dissent without resorting to name-calling and personal attacks, his posting privileges will continue to be suspended.

Hollar at ya later Mikey.

great -- now if i have any principles, i cannot post again until 3/14/07 ...

unless: were the attacks really evil and mean and likely inflicted irreparable harm?

'tis a sad day on the MB

so if personal attacks get you banned when is Calhoun getting his :confused:

hollar at you in march or use one of your buddies login :D

Pending appeal, per PDGA Discussion Board Rules, Mike Kernan has been subjected to 3 month posting suspension after recent posts of his were deleted due to personal attacks.

Let's make sure one thing is clear: dissension can be a valuable tool for an organization and is permitted on the PDGA Discussion Board. However, overt name-calling and personal attacks are not. If he cannot present his rebellion, criticism & dissent without resorting to name-calling and personal attacks, his posting privileges will continue to be suspended.




this sucks

BOOooo!!

Be consistent LaGrassa, Calhoun needs to go too!!

If disc golfers were consistent, we'd never need ratings.

GOOD!!!!!!!

If disc golfers were consistent, we'd never need ratings.



Nice

Censorship sucks....

Calhoun needs to go too!!



Jason, if you think that something posted by Terry or any other message board user violates our PDGA Moderation Board Rules, click on the 'Notify Moderator' button at the bottom of the post, which is the icon just to the right of the finger with a string around it. This will trigger and initiate the review process. So far, there have been very few complaints about anything from Terry and of those, nothing was found to explicitly violate our PDGA Discussion Board Rules.

Mike went through the system. He was reported for a first offense and was put on probation, which was appealed and upheld by Communications Director Steve Dodge. He was then reported for a second offense, for which he was given a 24-hr. suspension, and the appeal was upheld by Communications Director Steve Dodge. He was then reported for a third offense, with dictates a 3-month suspension, with, I assume an appeal to Steve Dodge pending.

We have a good system now. There shouldn't be any accusations of bias when there are three levels of review - the individual message board user reporting that a post is offensive, a moderator reviewing that post and agreeing that it violates PDGA Discussion Board Rules, and on appeal, Communications Director Steve Dodge reviewing the post. It's the most clear, unsubjective, fair and diplomatic system that's ever been in place here.

After his suspension ends, Mikey is again free to work to change the PDGA culture but he must do so without personal attacks.

Aww..i miss Mikey already..good luck with the appeals process..Although you cross the line too often, you could be an asset to the PDGA.. :confused:

Censorship is a female dog.

http://jigoku.studio-zoe.com/temp/banned.png

Thanks, process! Mikey has demonstrated, year after year, that he's more interested in complaining vociferously and engaging in repeated personal attacks than in dissenting constructively. It's my thought that he's no more interested in constructive dissension than "Grunion" and others of his ilk.

Thanks, process! Mikey has demonstrated, year after year, that he's more interested in complaining vociferously and engaging in repeated personal attacks than in dissenting constructively. It's my thought that he's no more interested in constructive dissension than "Grunion" and others of his ilk.



Moderator, please delete the previous post as a censored word was stated.

Well I guess it isn't censored anymore. Why was it censored in the 1st place again?

Calhoun needs to go too!!



Jason, if you think that something posted by Terry or any other message board user violates our PDGA Moderation Board Rules, click on the 'Notify Moderator' button at the bottom of the post, which is the icon just to the right of the finger with a string around it. This will trigger and initiate the review process. So far, there have been very few complaints about anything from Terry and of those, nothing was found to explicitly violate our PDGA Discussion Board Rules.



i just went back and found the post in the thread where (former Navy Seal) Terry offered to give Mikey a free "haircut' (aka: kill him) to report it now that i figured out that the "notify monitor" button at the bottom of every post is an icon and not text that actually says "notify monitor" -- but the response that clicking on the notify moderator button got me was "moderator has already been informed about this post". :confused:

respective post info:

<font color="blue"> Re: Renewal fee structure [Re: Paranoid_DG_Association] </font>
<font color="black"> #620673 - 12/09/06 02:37 PM </font>
(the 15th post from the start of the thread)
"Other PDGA Topics" > "Renewal Fee Structure" thread
click here to go to that thread (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=618651&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1)

does the "moderator has already been notified about this post" mean that it was not found to break the spirit of the posting rules? :confused: also, is there no counter to keep track of how many different people report a given post?

Well for one, I thought he meant he was joking about the PDGA paying for him to have a free haircut. Even after I read what the meaning of "haircut" was, I read the post as a joke, not a threat. Even after reading it several times, I still read it as a joke.

Mostly because of the :D

Terry_the_Pirate_Calhoun wrote:
Mikey give me a call and I'll arrange to come down and give you a haircut. After all, why pay for a barber when I'd jump at the chance to do it for free :D



pizza, you may have found it funny because of the :D, but i took the :Dto mean Terry thought it was funny to be threatening Mikey in couched language and offering him no charge for his "services." the same 'funny' case you are making for Terry could be made for everyone of Mikey's posts -- even the one where he compared Theo to Nazis.

Mikey has a certain over-the-top funniness that Terry's posts generally do not.

however if you say that Mikey's fun crosses the line -- you have to say the same of Terry's threatening offer to Mikey.
double standards are not good for moderators.

I think you need to substantiate your premise that "haircut" is slang for "kill." I cannot find a reference anywhere on the internet to this slang usage.

I did not read any of the posts till today. All of Mikes posts had already been deleted. But even the tone of the posts he had were pushing the line in my opinion. I could not say the same for Terry. Terry came on to defend a PDGA part time employee and long time volenteer.

To me, the worst he did was compare Mikes conspiracy/accusations, to McCarthys.

In truth, there is not much of a differance.

If you remember your history lessons, a lot of what McCarthy said was false. It took years to reverse the damage he did. Some of those that were blacklisted never recovered.

I will give you an example of why some of Mikes accusations have been false over the years. For one, Both Steve and Pat were elected to the board. That would never have happened if Mike and Mike (Grunion) were correct in all there accusations.
(I am refering to the "good old boy network" type stuff)

I think you need to substantiate your premise that "haircut" is slang for "kill." I cannot find a reference anywhere on the internet to this slang usage.



great. Terry already has a lawyer :p

Bruce, ask Terry what he meant. why did he laugh about his offer? and hadn't he previously broadcast to Mikey via this forum that he was a former Navy Seal who can easily kill a person? was Terry just bragging? just sharing background info? LOL

I seem to recall that Mikey and Terry have met face to face in Texas. Does Mikey have long hair? The haircut procedure sounds like a mafia-ism...kind of like making someone an offer they can't refuse...(?)
I'm guessing Mikey has the end-date of his suspension/banishment circled on his calender...and is busy creating new posts to further our entertainment!
Pretty funny!!
.02

I think you need to substantiate your premise that "haircut" is slang for "kill." I cannot find a reference anywhere on the internet to this slang usage.

it does need substantiation, true. my coworkers tell me that the phrase is at least used in military/commando movies. assuming that is true, the phrase is in the culture and it wont matter whether or not it ever was said by a seal, regardless of who they were trained by.

I'm thinking the Indians in colonial times might have initiated the expression...

I think you need to substantiate your premise that "haircut" is slang for "kill." I cannot find a reference anywhere on the internet to this slang usage.


Even Urbandictionary.com has no reference for this...(?)

I'm thinking the Indians in colonial times might have initiated the expression...



actually it was Europeans who started scalping after turning in the whole skin of an "Indian" for a bounty became too cumbersome and messy (hence the term "redskin"). so the indians in colonial times who engaged in scalping probably called it "payback"

"There are many humorous things in the world; among them, the white man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages." -- Mark Twain

"almost every war between the Indian and the whites has been occasioned by some injustice of the latter towards the former." Benjamin Franklin

double standards are not good for moderators.



There's no double standards here, Rob. All PDGA Discussion Board users are treated equally.

If there's an obvious and substantiated physical threat from one member to another, that's going to qualify as a personal attack and be acted on accordingly.

Remember our system works both ways. If something offensive is reported to a moderator, he agrees on it, and deletes such and puts a user on probation, the user can appeal that decision to Communication Director Steve Dodge who can decide to overturn such. Similarly, if a user reports something offensive, and the moderator decides that it doesn't violate our PDGA Discussion Board Rules, the user can still appeal to Communication Director Steve Dodge and have him examine the post himself and rule on it.

If you truly feel that there's been a PDGA Discussion Board Rules violation in this case, I suggest appealing to Communication Director Steve Dodge.

im sure mikey was banned for something other than personal attacks.....All he wants is some simple answers...

We all deserve to know that the PDGA financials are copacetic. Assuming so just ain't enuff no mo. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

If something offensive is reported to a moderator, he agrees on it, and deletes such and puts a user on probation, the user can appeal that decision to Communication Director Steve Dodge who can decide to overturn such. Similarly, if a user reports something offensive, and the moderator decides that it doesn't violate our PDGA Discussion Board Rules, the user can still appeal to Communication Director Steve Dodge and have him examine the post himself and rule on it.

If you truly feel that there's been a PDGA Discussion Board Rules violation in this case, I suggest appealing to Communication Director Steve Dodge.



so if i click on the little "notify moderator" button what process kicks in? does a moderator individually decide whether a given post demands censor? also, is there any counter that tracks how many people complain about a given post? (i ask because when i went to report Terry's post, the automatic instantaneous reply i got was that the post had already been reported).

so if i click on the little "notify moderator" button what process kicks in?



An e-mail is sent to both moderators with a link to the offensive post. Usually whatever moderator is available first will review the complaint. Sometimes neither of us are immediately available, or it may take considerable time to decide on the complaint. At this point, one of two things happens:<ul type="square"> Moderator agrees that the post violates our PDGA Discussion Board Rules. The post is archived in the Deleted Items forum describing why an action was taken. The post will be archived to ensure a fair appeals process can take place. User punishment and probation dates noted. Moderator disagrees that post violates our PDGA Discussion Board Rules. The following text is e-mailed to the original complainer: "This issue has been reviewed and has been found to not violate the PDGA Discussion Board rules. If you would like to appeal this decision, please contact Steven Dodge, the PDGA Communications Director."[/list]

does a moderator individually decide whether a given post demands censor?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Moderators respond to user complaints. Occasionally, a moderator will notice something potentially offensive and report it to the other moderator for review. This is performed to avoid bias and so that a minimum of TWO individuals are agreeing that something violates our PDGA Discussion Board Rules. There is the original user complaint, and the moderator that agrees with it.


also, is there any counter that tracks how many people complain about a given post? (i ask because when i went to report Terry's post, the automatic instantaneous reply i got was that the post had already been reported).



It appears that there is no counter, and a post can only be reported once.


im sure mikey was banned for something other than personal attacks.....All he wants is some simple answers...



I can assure you that Mikey was banned ONLY for personal attacks, and resent the implication of otherwise. We have gone to great lengths to put into place a clear, unsubjective, fair and diplomatic system with three levels of escalating discipline and three levels of review. His posts have been reported by several different message board users, reviewed by a moderator, and suspensions upheld by Communications Director Steve Dodge, and he was warned and disciplined twice before the 3-month suspension was enacted.

Once his suspension ends, Mikey is free to seek "some simple answers" but he must do so without making personal attacks.

posts can also be reported by PMing the moderator with the post number, url, and a cut/paste of the post's text. the button is easier, but if someone beat you to it, the manual method will make it into the system as a seperate request.

all channels other than the board remain open for banned users.

posts can also be reported by PMing the moderator with the post number, url, and a cut/paste of the post's text. the button is easier, but if someone beat you to it, the manual method will make it into the system as a seperate request.




Pat,

I'd prefer if users utilize the following order to report offensive posts: <ul type="square"> 1. Click on the 'Notify Moderator' button at the bottom of the post, which is the icon just to the right of the finger with a string around it. This will trigger an e-mail to BOTH moderators and initiate the review process. 2. Or, send an e-mail to both moderators, whose e-mail addresses are listed here (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/boardrules.php?Cat=). You should include:
Your name &amp; PDGA number Offending member &amp; PDGA number Quote of the offending text A link to the offending text

Please note that clicking on the 'Notify Moderator' button in the first option automatically sends exactly the same information and saves users the work of copying and pasting. :cool:

3. As a last resort, users can choose to send a Private Message to one of the moderators. This is the least preferred method because it only notifies one of the moderators, who may not be available for whatever reason, and may result in one moderator handling significantly more complaints than the other. [/list]

im sure mikey was banned for something other than personal attacks.....All he wants is some simple answers...



I can assure you that Mikey was banned ONLY for personal attacks, and resent the implication of otherwise. We have gone to great lengths to put into place a clear, unsubjective, fair and diplomatic system with three levels of escalating discipline and three levels of review. His posts have been reported by several different message board users, reviewed by a moderator, and suspensions upheld by Communications Director Steve Dodge, and he was warned and disciplined twice before the 3-month suspension was enacted.

Once his suspension ends, Mikey is free to seek "some simple answers" but he must do so without making personal attacks.

[/QUOTE]

Jeff, fyi, you misattributed the quote at top to me.

that said, i do find it interesting that Mikey gets banned for behavior Terry gets away with. i can appreciate however that banning Mikey is comparatively easy and that banning Terry would be more difficult in terms of their respective connections and popularity.

Jeff, fyi, you misattributed the quote at top to me.



Rob, I'm well aware that said quote was from Bard Soleng and not you. At the time I really didn't feel like having to make two posts. Sorry for the confusion.


that said, i do find it interesting that Mikey gets banned for behavior Terry gets away with. i can appreciate however that banning Mikey is comparatively easy and that banning Terry would be more difficult in terms of their respective connections and popularity.



Rob, your perception is 100% false. I've gone to great lengths to explain to you the moderation process which has three levels of review, is devoid of bias, and treats all users equally. If Terry went on a binge of personal attacks he would go through the Discussion Board discipline process just the same as Mikey. Again, very few posts from him have been reported and nothing has been found by either moderator or Communications Director Steve Dodge to be a personal attack.

It seems like you are sold on your claims of favoritism, even though I have gone to great lengths to explain the system in finite detail. It appears nothing will change your mind, so I will argue this with you no more.

Jeff, i didn't think my point would be so hard to grasp: judging Mikey as having crossed the line is comparatively easier than judging Terry to have done so. not to a machine it wouldn;t be but to a human being in your position: obviously.

the same is true for complaints and the complainers. it is easy here politically to decry Mikey; but a little tougher to call out Terry.


Rob, your perception is 100% false. I've gone to great lengths to explain to you the moderation process which has three levels of review, is devoid of bias, and treats all users equally.



your perception of my perception is misguided. i am pointing to the inclination that is human nature that might unintentionally come into play.
you're not a machine so being devoid of bias is a worthy goal but not a very realistic claim. i'm not expecting perfection anyways. just attempt to treat Theo and Terry the same way you treat Mikey or member X. and if that is just what you are doing: thank you.

it just seems a bit incongruent that Terry can get away with comparing Mikey negatively to historical figures and making thinly veiled threats while Mikey's humorous comparisons and critical lampoons are judged out of bounds.

Can you please drop this.

It has been explained ad nauseum why Mike was suspended. You act as though Mikey was treated differently and the moderators have repeatedly assured you and others that they followed the guidelines.


I wonder why the PDGA has so much trouble finding and keeping moderators? Could it be they get fed up having to answer the same questions over and over again? Could it be they get tired of being continually accused of being censors, or of hindering free speech or accused of being biased? I guess it just another one of the many thankless jobs for PDGA volunteers. Someone always has an opinion on how a volunteer or moderator can do the job better, but they never step up to volunteer to do the work themselves.

could it be that legitimate questions arose about the way things were handled? openess and transparency can be a challenge and volunteers naturally get frustrated if they have to answer dumb questions over and over -- but they also are free to welcome inquiries into their moderation process in order to clear up any misunderstandings and to transparently reveal the fairness of the approach they take.

Steve Dodge has been exemplary in that regard imo.

i guess you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and are glad Mikey has been banned. if someone would ask the same important questions he did but do so in a way not quite so inflammatory -- i think it would do the membership a great service despite the "leave us alone" mentality that all too often dominates here ...

Do you honestly think Mikey was banned for his viewpoints?

I think Mikey was banned because Mikey wanted to be banned.

When his first post didn't get him banned, he turned up the heat.

When he finally got a one day suspension, he came back with more. My guess is that he is intelligent enough to know that the manner in which he is asking his questions will cause trouble much quicker than it will garner serious answers. Therefore I think he is not interested in getting answers, or has decided that he will never get the answers he wants and merely wants to create a spectical while being denied.

Of course I don't know Mike personally, and my assessment of his motives is pure speculation based on his posting patterns over the last few years.

Way to go Columbo /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif...

Do you honestly think Mikey was banned for his viewpoints?



not directly. i think the moderator(s) banned him because his comments were found to have crossed the line. but i think the complainers which triggered the moderators to get involved were mainly interested in getting him banned because they don't like his viewpoints.

your question kind of feels like asking if Clinton was impeached because he lied about having had consensual sex with an adult intern. i think he was impeached because people didn't like his views and so they pursued whatever dirt they could get or throw on him.

my view is that if Mikey got banned Terry should at least get put on probation. obviously most people (and the ones that count) disagree with me. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Unfortunately another personal attack forced me to suspend Mike Kernan for another 3 months. He will be un-banned on July 3rd and will serve another 3 month probation at that time.

F Doot

I'm over it already. :D

Three more monthe of bliss.

Three months plus 6 posts until his next suspension. :)

i give it 8 posts- he can type quickly. ;)

Unfortunately another personal attack forced me to suspend Mike Kernan for another 3 months. He will be un-banned on July 3rd and will serve another 3 month probation at that time.

F Doot

Now let's hope that folks can continue the discussion of the valuable issues that Mikey brought up...but with much more respect, honesty and civility that Mr. Mikey has shown.

Who won the pool? Can I get in on the next one?

Unfortunately another personal attack forced me to suspend Mike Kernan for another 3 months. He will be un-banned on July 3rd and will serve another 3 month probation at that time.

F Doot

Now let's hope that folks can continue the discussion of the valuable issues that Mikey brought up...but with much more respect, honesty and civility that Mr. Mikey has shown.



I've never doubted that Mikey at one point had valuable points to discuss. At some point, he just decided to drop civility and logic from his posts and went on the paranoia attacking track.

Unfortunately another personal attack forced me to suspend Mike Kernan for another 3 months. He will be un-banned on July 3rd and will serve another 3 month probation at that time.

F Doot

Now let's hope that folks can continue the discussion of the valuable issues that Mikey brought up...



Exactly!

It sucks that he has been banned again, as his posts are always entertaining and often do contain important relevant concerns regarding the pdga. If only Mikey had his own moderation team to edit out personal attacks before submitting posts, he'd stay on the mb longer.

Mikey's running out of feet to shoot...thus denying his 'fans'.

happy birthday Mikey see you back on-line in 3 months.

LOL. Ditto. HB MK.

To tune in on the daily upevils uncovered by Mr. Mikey, simiply tune your web finder to the Southern Nationals discussion board.

LOL. Ditto. HB MK.



Oh no...I have the same birthday as UPM???

Who won the pool? Can I get in on the next one?



For real. You had to get in fast to get in on the action.

I know the guy, he's alright. :)

Mikey's a really cool guy that holds our interests as disc golfers well above the interests of any DG club or association we are a part of. You can tell by the way he runs a tournament that his efforts are entirely for our pleasure and entertainment. If you were lucky enought to have attended his Pot'o'Gold tournament on St. Patty's Day in New Orleans you are witness of his unselfish and greedless persona. I must also add that he had a tremendous team of fellow disc golfers who based on their actions and support to the disc golf community deserve a 5 minute standing ovation from all of us.

Dude can run a mean tournament.

Then it's really too bad his behavior on these boards is not as respectable as his tournament directing ability.

I know the guy, he's alright. :)

Mikey's a really cool guy that holds our interests as disc golfers well above the interests of any DG club or association we are a part of. You can tell by the way he runs a tournament that his efforts are entirely for our pleasure and entertainment. If you were lucky enought to have attended his Pot'o'Gold tournament on St. Patty's Day in New Orleans you are witness of his unselfish and greedless persona. I must also add that he had a tremendous team of fellow disc golfers who based on their actions and support to the disc golf community deserve a 5 minute standing ovation from all of us.

Dude can run a mean tournament.



Unfortunately, the guy has another side to him that is completely irrational and in my opinion cancels out any good he may do. He needs to learn how to work within society's established parameters. Once he goes off on a rant, he loses all credibility. If he was bright enough to present his questions and pursue his agenda in a professional way, he might actually get somewhere with it.

What do you expect. He works for the U.S. Postal Service! :D;) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif rWc3523 :cool:

replacement