I have always been under the impression that a player could NOT hold onto an inanimate object (I.E. a tree, a fence, or a post) for balance while making a shot.
But then I watch the USDGC highlights footage on discgolftv.com (posted Nov. 3, 2006) and I see a guy make a putt from inside the Bamboo fence. His mark was about 6 inches from the fence on the inside of the fence. He holds onto the fence and leans out over his mark with one foot behind the mark and makes the putt.

Is that a legal play?

I thought that was illegal also...

one of the threads is just few days old (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=608469&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

If the object is not closer to the basket than his lie, it is legal.

So you can basically hang over your lie by holding on to something behind you, even if you would not have the balance to do so without the object? Seems like that rule should be changed.

So you can basically hang over your lie by holding on to something behind you, even if you would not have the balance to do so without the object? Seems like that rule should be changed.



YUP!! As long as the object is behind your lie :p

If you actually played on a "Wooded" course...this might have come into play once in a while /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :eek:
:D

There is one stipulation though:

803.4 D. A player must choose the stance that will result in the least movement of any part of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course

If you believe he moved the item more than a minimal amount and can get another player to agree with you, the two of you can call a stance violation. This however is a very tricky thing to argue. Certainly if you are in a bunch of bushes and you throw out, you can pretty violently move some branches.

I would have never guessed that. Not that I don't believe you guys, but I would like to see a PDGA rep, give their thoughts on it. Only because so many rules are left open to interpretation.

Go to the Rules Q&A and you can read the following.




Rule Question: Maintaining balance while putting
Question
"I have a good rules question for you involving the stance rules. A player uses an object (in this case a branch) behind him to maintain balance for a putt. First, would this be considered "full control of balance"? Second, could you argue, if the branch is not so large that the players body weight will not move it, that it is a violation of 803.03 D and or 803.04 A because they could have moved the branch less by not hanging on it? Thanks for any input."

Response
The question can be boiled down to: Can a player hold on to an object behind his lie to maintain balance while throwing/putting?

Applicable rules:


803.04 (Stance)
803.05 (Obstacles and Relief)
804.05 (Disqualification and Suspension)

Discussion:

The rules do not require that you maintain your balance while putting. You can have a grand mal seizure as long as you don't step ahead of your lie. At the time you decide to step ahead of your lie is when you have to demonstrate balance. This is simply to prove that you are not committing a falling putt, such that you would not be able to stop yourself from falling forward due to the motion of your putt. Grabbing a branch is merely acquiring another support point, which is perfectly legal, as long as it is not ahead of your lie.

Holding on to something BEHIND your lie is not prohibited by the rules, provided that the tree that the golfer is using as a supporting point is in-bounds (803.03.A (3)).

The branch must not be moved, or else the player would be in violation of one or both of 803.04.D and 803.05.A, which require you to take the stance that results in the least movement of objects that are part of the course and which prohibit you from moving a branch to "make room for a throwing motion".

Conclusion:

A player can hold on to something behind her lie, in certain circumstances, without violating the PDGA rules. In general that which is not prohibited by the PDGA rules is allowed, provided of course, that the action done by the player is not considered "a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play". (This, of course, is cheating!)

Other Comments:

Many members of the committee have actually tried to hold on to some object behind their lie, while leaning forward to throw or putt. In our opinion this action makes the ensuing throw/putt MORE difficult to accomplish.

The PDGA Rules Committee

Carlton Howard, Chair
John Chapman
Conrad Damon
Harold Duvall
Joe Garcia
Jim Garnett
Rick Voakes

so on a steep down hill putt, you can can hold on to someone behind you while putting to prevent from falling foward. I can see where that would be to the players advantage.

Something yes, someone I have not heard that discussed :confused: And a related thread drift question I have is would it be legal for someone to hold an umbrella over a player while they are playing a shot?

someTHING

I have always been told that no one can assist the player in any way. The player himself can hold the umbrella, I know I have done it in a down pour.

My cart has an attachment so the umbrella is over my head without me holding it. I've putted from under it several times. Not sure why someone else holding an umbrella would be any different.

I have always been told that no one can assist the player in any way.



If that were true, then caddies would not be allowed.

I have always been told that no one can assist the player in any way. The player himself can hold the umbrella, I know I have done it in a down pour.



That's a ball golf rule. The player may not accept physical assistance or protection from the elements in making a stroke. I don't think we have that rule for disc golf.

However, it might be a good idea to add it to prevent a player from being physically assisted in making a shot. Say a player is on a steep incline and has to make a shot from there. What rule prevents another player from holding the player on the incline steady so the shot can be made?

I agree. A player sould not receive any assistance form any outside source other than himself.

It would really not be any different than bringing along a rope to tie off to the nearest tree and holding on to that. I think that would fall under the artificial devices category.

If someone was in place to grab if you lost your balance after the shot, I think that would be OK as long a foot fault was conceded if the assisting player had to grab you to keep you from falling.

I will chime in..

I dont mean to offend, so dont take it as such... But I feel if it's windy AND rainy, an umbrella is useless! But u'll be **** sure im playin anyway. Many days I'm the only person I see in 3 hours (3 rounds) of playing.

If it's only raining, and again my opinion, I give myself two options. 1: DONT PLAY. 2: Wear boots, waterproof pants, layer up with a sweater, vest and waterproof jackets, and keep several towels with which to dry the discs within the jacket.

I honestly could never see myself with an umbrella... PLAY OR GO HOME! Again, one man's opinion, and here whens it's windy and windy, and umbrella is useless anyway.

P.S... The more I play in wind in rain, I set PR's when its finally dry again. After 2 weeks of rain and +6 scores, it got dry for a day, and on the 4th round, I shot a zero. It was awesome! By the way, dont laugh, I first picked up a disc in mid-August. :cool:

-Bg

Umbrellas are nice for keeping the rain OUT of your DG bag...though wind AND rain is a difficult scenario. Back when I had the DG bug BAD ('97-'01), yup, I played in all conditions...and loved it! Now, I'm definitely a more fair weather DG'er. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :cool:

Yeah, sure sign of age :), but I am in the same condition. I once held a record for lost discs in a tournament in Arvada, Co, by loosing 7 discs during a snow storm. Got all but one of them back several days later, but still I don't care to play in those conditions anymore.


Umbrellas are nice for keeping the rain OUT of your DG bag...though wind AND rain is a difficult scenario. Back when I had the DG bug BAD ('97-'01), yup, I played in all conditions...and loved it! Now, I'm definitely a more fair weather DG'er. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :cool:

you're fair, weather or not...

I have always been told that no one can assist the player in any way. The player himself can hold the umbrella, I know I have done it in a down pour.



That's a ball golf rule. The player may not accept physical assistance or protection from the elements in making a stroke. I don't think we have that rule for disc golf.

However, it might be a good idea to add it to prevent a player from being physically assisted in making a shot. Say a player is on a steep incline and has to make a shot from there. What rule prevents another player from holding the player on the incline steady so the shot can be made?

so, is it legal for someone to hold an umbrella over a player while he/she is making a shot?

There is nothing in the rule book against it, so yes it is legal.


so, is it legal for someone to hold an umbrella over a player while he/she is making a shot?

I have always been told that no one can assist the player in any way. The player himself can hold the umbrella, I know I have done it in a down pour.



That's a ball golf rule. The player may not accept physical assistance or protection from the elements in making a stroke. I don't think we have that rule for disc golf.

However, it might be a good idea to add it to prevent a player from being physically assisted in making a shot. Say a player is on a steep incline and has to make a shot from there. What rule prevents another player from holding the player on the incline steady so the shot can be made?

so, is it legal for someone to hold an umbrella over a player while he/she is making a shot?



Legal in disc golf, but not legal in ball golf.

I have always been told that no one can assist the player in any way. The player himself can hold the umbrella, I know I have done it in a down pour.



That's a ball golf rule. The player may not accept physical assistance or protection from the elements in making a stroke. I don't think we have that rule for disc golf.

However, it might be a good idea to add it to prevent a player from being physically assisted in making a shot. Say a player is on a steep incline and has to make a shot from there. What rule prevents another player from holding the player on the incline steady so the shot can be made?

so, is it legal for someone to hold an umbrella over a player while he/she is making a shot?



Legal in disc golf, but not legal in ball golf.


/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif