I recently played in a couple of sanctioned tournys and at both, someone in our group lost the scorecard. Both times the scorecard was found. The first time the player keeping score found it in his pocket. The second time was a near disaster! After finishing our hole, the player keeping score stated that he lost it....and lost it he did! After looking for the card as the next group was approaching the tee, I finally found it in some very tall grass off the faiway. My question is..... what is the ruling if we had not found the scorecard? I gotta tell ya, the other three in our group were a little #$*&$! and had we not found the scorecard, I was heading home!

The procedure I have heard is for the group to sit down and to recreate the card. With four minds, you should be able to recreate the scorecard. Some people always keep a seperate card to verify their score. As long as the group, as a whole can agree, I don't think there is an issue. The real problem will occur if everyone cannot agree on the score. Then you have to recreate it as best you can and I would guess mix a little majority rules and some benefit to the player.

What if you can't remember hole by hole but you know what you were. Like I normally keep what I'm shooting in my head but I can't tell you on what hole I got what. Well last weekend I could have I pared 17 of 18 holes that would have been easy.

My guess is that the TD would give players par+4 on the holes they can't remember. I think that threat will help jog players' memories...

My guess is that the TD would give players par+4 on the holes they can't remember. I think that threat will help jog players' memories...


Unless the missing scores were from the first few holes of the players' round, I don't think par+4 is an appropriate "threat". If they were a few holes in the middle of the round, par+4 wouldn't apply.

I think a more appropriate "threat" is that if the players can agree on each other's total scores, without the individual scores written in, then the TD would just add 2 penalty strokes to those totals for turning in an incomplete scorecard.

--Josh

If they were a few holes in the middle of the round, par+4 wouldn't apply.




Since there's nothing in the rules to address this case of missing scores short of DQ, the TD would have the prerogative to do such a thing. By definition, the RC has agreed that no one should receive more than par+4 on holes they haven't played. I think the Competition Director would support a TD using par+4 as fair under the circumstances in the event the group can't agree. However, I suspect they would come to agreement on appropriate numbers if par+4 was the alternative.

Thanks for the responses. I like the idea of keeping a separate scorecard, which I think I will start to do during tournys. At least for my score but maybe the whole group as well. This is a situation that has occurred more than twice. I once played a tourny where the group behind us came up and said, 'Hey guys, you may want to hold on to this!' It was our scorecard.

Unless the missing scores were from the first few holes of the players' round, I don't think par+4 is an appropriate "threat". If they were a few holes in the middle of the round, par+4 wouldn't apply.

I think a more appropriate "threat" is that if the players can agree on each other's total scores, without the individual scores written in, then the TD would just add 2 penalty strokes to those totals for turning in an incomplete scorecard.

--Josh



The penalty +2 to overall, for missing scores, could be applied if they turned the card in incomplete, and as was pointed out to me several weeks back, the MAX penalty would be +2. This assumes they can come to an agreement on the missing scores. If they did that then the card would have been filled in PRIOR TO turning it in. However, if they could not determine a score for the hole then the closest penalty would be 802.04 Beginning Play which states par + 4.

If the players could not agree on a score then it may result in a par +4 with a potential additional +2, though I cannot believe any TD would do so. If I were the TD and a group came up to me, I would suggest they spend ever bit of time they had to come up with the score, before turning it in.

If they turned the card in without all the scores I would ask them what their scores were and add +2. If they told me they could not figure out the missing scores because of group conflict I would suggest they iron it out, otherwise a missing and unknown score is no different than an un-played hole.

otherwise a missing and unknown score is no different than an un-played hole.



Except un-played holes are different depending on when they happen in a round.

otherwise a missing and unknown score is no different than an un-played hole.



Except un-played holes are different depending on when they happen in a round.



That is true, but we don't have any other rule that would come close to handling this situation.

Agree Jerry

What if Justin, you are SUPPOSED to write scores after every hole.

Which you cannot do in open. Jerry it was fun playing w/your brother this weekend. He definitely has a few more pro tourneys under his belt.

Peace,

Ron

There wouldn't be a penalty at all as long as the players turned in their scores on time.

There wouldn't be a penalty at all as long as the players turned in their scores on time.



I agree, but one of the items being discussed was what would happen if an agreement could not be made on scores. Turning a card in with blank holes is not an option. Approaching a certified official or the TD before turning it in is.

Ya, I got that. I was just trying to clear it up for the first Q.

I have been playing for 27 years, competing on and off again and I have never had a card lost. This past weekend at VPO one of the guys lost the cards (seperate cards were kept for each player). He was afraid he would be DQ'd or we would all be stroked. We sat down, went through our scores and recreated the lost holes without a single disagreement. The player felt so bad he almost withdrew and was unsettled for the rest of the round.