Not sure if this is even the right topic to post under, but I was wondering if there's any sort of deadline for results from a PDGA event to be posted on the PDGA Event Information page?

I've got an even better question. How long after a TD sends the electronic results in for his tournament can he expect them to be posted on the PDGA Tour with round ratings? My event was only 3 days ago but lots of events from 3 days ago were posted after only one day. Do they wait for my check to clear or something? Maybe I should have paid via paypal. If I had known I would have done this because people are bugging me for their ratings already.

with your tourny password and access to the admin page you can copy the scores from your spreadsheet onto the web for prelim ratings.

Posting unofficial results and ratings are completely in control of TDs. They can post preregistrations, then round scores online as the event is underway or immediately afterward. The sanctioning agreement determines how quickly these results must be posted and the report sent to the PDGA. Here are the requirements for each tier on page 3:
www.pdga.com/documents/td/06SanctionAgreement.pdf (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/06SanctionAgreement.pdf)

Dave usually posts the official results within about a week from when they are received, and points are posted about once per month during the peak season from April thru October. When official results are posted, unofficial ratings disappear. Official ratings are processed five times per year. We're looking into a way to leave unofficial ratings online even when results are posted officially so players can see those until the offical ratings are processed.

Post deleted by Frisbee

These days it looks like the unofficial calculations have been pretty close and many times exact to the official ratings when they come out.

I asked this before and either didn't get a response or it got list in the noise...

When a tournament misses the deadline for getting in their results to be included in the ratings update, what ratings are used to calculate the round ratings for that tournament: the ratings at the time of the tournament or the updated ratings 6-9 months later when things are finally turned in?

It gets my goat when TDs run an absolutely great tournament and then don't finish the job.

I'm pretty sure that Roger uses the current ratings at the time the report is turned in rather than what they were at the time of the event unless we've done some sort of major correction rerun.

Caning is not leagal in the US, but maybe it should be consiered. On the other hand, there is a bit of work that must be done to get the items turned in. You need all the sponsorship info, costs, etc. and sometimes it is not available at your finger tips. However, one month should be more than enough time and 1 month is what the PDGA allows. I am not defending deliquent TD's, I am just telling you that sometimes there is a lot more involved than just sending in the scores.

As an example, two years ago I received sponsorship materials from a local shop. I asked for the retail value and the owner said that he would get me a full listing of materials and cost. These items were included in CTP's, raffles and am payouts. I made a seperate list of all the materials and decided what went where in the payout scheme. After the event the owner did not have the list available, but promised it the following week. Anyway, at 3 weeks and 5 days he still did not have it and I had to go into his shop and read retail values off to determine the costs myself. This took me about 45 minutes to do, which is not a lot of time, but when the shop owner kept promising the list I let it slide. I cannot get onto the shop owner, because they were donating materials for sponsorhip. Anyway you get the idea.


I asked this before and either didn't get a response or it got list in the noise...

When a tournament misses the deadline for getting in their results to be included in the ratings update, what ratings are used to calculate the round ratings for that tournament: the ratings at the time of the tournament or the updated ratings 6-9 months later when things are finally turned in?

It gets my goat when TDs run an absolutely great tournament and then don't finish the job.

It's the TDs that take 4 or more months to get it done that annoys me, but there is nothing that can be done about that. On the plus side, my meager rounds will be rated slightly higher assuming those that played also have been improving. Maybe it will offset the low am rating penalty.

You can send in the part of the tournament reports with the scores, courses played and layouts, etc.. as soon as your tournament is over. PDGA can wait a few weeks on the financials.

You are making the job too hard. The PDGA is fine with ballpark numbers.

Jon makes the job look too easy. At the last tournament he was putting up scores and unofficial ratings while we were doing the leaderboard. Scores were up before we finished handing out CTP prizes.

Jon sometimes is intentionally slow with the TD report. As soon as the PDGA gets the TD report processed, they take down unofficial ratings, for some reason. So Jon sits on his TD reports for a few weeks, depending on when the next update is, so players can see their ratings.

I did not know that. Thanks.


You can send in the part of the tournament reports with the scores, courses played and layouts, etc.. as soon as your tournament is over. PDGA can wait a few weeks on the financials.

The PDGA may be fine with ballpark numbers, but they shouldn't be. Some of the numbers affect the IRS, some of the numbers, as in my case, affect a Charity. Some of the numbers have to be reported to local clubs (not true in my case).


You are making the job too hard. The PDGA is fine with ballpark numbers.

Jon makes the job look too easy. At the last tournament he was putting up scores and unofficial ratings while we were doing the leaderboard. Scores were up before we finished handing out CTP prizes.

Jon sometimes is intentionally slow with the TD report. As soon as the PDGA gets the TD report processed, they take down unofficial ratings, for some reason. So Jon sits on his TD reports for a few weeks, depending on when the next update is, so players can see their ratings.

As soon as the PDGA gets the TD report processed, they take down unofficial ratings, for some reason.



We don't do it on purpose. The official display is database driven. Once the results are posted in the official database, there are no ratings yet in the official ratings fields to display until they are calculated. We would like to figure out a way to retain the unofficial ratings but they are generated dynamically by the unofficial scores software and disappear when those unofficial scores are removed and replaced with the official ones.

You can send in the part of the tournament reports with the scores, courses played and layouts, etc.. as soon as your tournament is over. PDGA can wait a few weeks on the financials.



as a potential founding member of Procrastinators Anonymous, i would not recommend that course of action. Get the financials done asap while the event is fresh in your memory so you don't leave anything out (and so your work is done).

doesn't the payout have to be sent in with the scores or were you not including payout as part of the financials?

You can send in the part of the tournament reports with the scores, courses played and layouts, etc.. as soon as your tournament is over. PDGA can wait a few weeks on the financials.



as a potential founding member of Procrastinators Anonymous, i would not recommend that course of action. Get the financials done asap while the event is fresh in your memory so you don't leave anything out (and so your work is done).

doesn't the payout have to be sent in with the scores or were you not including payout as part of the financials?



Yes, the payout would be PART of the financials, but it is also PART of the scores, layouts, and results information.

What I was trying to get at is that the scores, layout, memberships (don't wait to send these in) and payout should be sent IMMEDIATELY after the tournament, or as soon as possible. The rest of the financial statement can wait, if necessary. I'm not endorsing procrastination on the financials as much as stressing to get the results and memberships in ASAP.

Chap

The PDGA may be fine with ballpark numbers, but they shouldn't be. Some of the numbers affect the IRS, some of the numbers, as in my case, affect a Charity. Some of the numbers have to be reported to local clubs (not true in my case).




The way I understand it, that is the responsibility of the host clubs/TDs to the IRS, State Dept. of Revenue, or whomever they may owe precise information. Bruce is correct, the PDGA is not that picky, nor does it need to be, at least to the best of my understanding.

Chap

So in other words, I can report one set of financials to the PDGA and a completely different set to the IRS? ;)

It is my opinion that the numbers should all be the same. Just an opinion, but if a TD ever gets audited and a tournament comes into question, it would not behoove the TD or the PDGA if the numbers were not the same. Of course I am not a lawyer.



The PDGA may be fine with ballpark numbers, but they shouldn't be. Some of the numbers affect the IRS, some of the numbers, as in my case, affect a Charity. Some of the numbers have to be reported to local clubs (not true in my case).




The way I understand it, that is the responsibility of the host clubs/TDs to the IRS, State Dept. of Revenue, or whomever they may owe precise information. Bruce is correct, the PDGA is not that picky, nor does it need to be, at least to the best of my understanding.

Chap

Jon sometimes is intentionally slow with the TD report. As soon as the PDGA gets the TD report processed, they take down unofficial ratings, for some reason. So Jon sits on his TD reports for a few weeks, depending on when the next update is, so players can see their ratings.



did the PDGA recently take this into consideration and decide to stop replacing unofficial results that show preliminary ratings for the rounds so that TD's won't have an incentive not to turn in reports? the reason i ask is i submitted the TD Reports for an Oct. 8 event that i thought had gotten the ratings taken downm but now they are back up... :confused: did i just imagine they had gone away a week or two ago???

KY States is shown as Unofficial so either the results haven't been posted or there was a problem such that Dave hasn't posted them officially.

Back to the original question...

It seems as though there RECENTLY has been an unusual delay in tournament results on the PDGA site. I noticed because all year long I would check the site shortly after a tourney to find my round ratings and such posted promptly. However, since approximately the last player rating update (9-19-06 I think) I have not seen info from any tournament I have played starting with this one --> KZoo Championship (http://www.pdga.com/schedule/event.php?TournID=5741). Larry Labond is a very efficient TD and I suspect he turned his stuff in within a reasonable amount of time. At first I thought there was just a problem with this tourney, but it is actually all 4 or 5 sanctioned tournies I have played since.

I know the guys at the PDGA work hard to get us this info and I certainly appreciate that.

Does anyone know if this is a coincidence, or if there truly is some type of holdup occuring???

Results of the tournament I played just last weekend are up. (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=6107#Open)

The PDGA does not post the results with unofficial ratings after events, the TDs do. It's up to them.

The PDGA does not post the results with unofficial ratings after events, the TDs do. It's up to them.



Actually I thought it was a requirement of higher tiered events now?

The two Illinois Open Series tournaments since that date had no problem getting their scores up. The scores and ratings you see the posted the day after the tournament are put up by the TD and his staff, not the PDGA office staff. I think you've just had a string of nonreporting TDs.

The PDGA can't force the TDs to comply short of not sanctioning them the following year. According to the sanctioning agreement, A-tiers are supposed to post scores during the event and I didn't see scores after Round 1 in either A-tier last weekend and I don't think OO even posted them on Saturday night. I think they might miss their PDGA scorekeeper from Worlds... :)

I'm pretty sure Dave hasn't gotten several A-tier results within 24 hours per the sanctioning agreement. Unless we ask TDs for say a $1500 deposit to more than cover fees, and they don't get a rebate until they comply with the agreement, we'll be left to the good graces of the TDs to try and comply.

OO had round 1 & 2 scores up Saturday night and final scores up Sunday night.

I was up past midnight and they weren't there. A post at 11:39pm CDT indicated they weren't up. Then a 7am CST post indicated they were up. I'd say that qualifies as not being up per the agreement. Not accusing, just factual.

I just know that I had already looked at the scores before getting a call from one of the competitors on the way to the course Sunday morning. I don't remember if it was 2-3AM of prior to 8 AM.

The PDGA can't force the TDs to comply short of not sanctioning them the following year. * * * Unless we ask TDs for say a $1500 deposit to more than cover fees, and they don't get a rebate until they comply with the agreement, we'll be left to the good graces of the TDs to try and comply.

The PDGA could just increase the sanctioning fee by $50 or so and offer rebates for timely posting of scores and timely submission of a TD report. Better yet, increase the per player fee by 50 cents and offer a 10% rebate for timely posting of scores and another 10% rebate for timely submission of a TD report. That way, the TD who has the most amount of work to do to get up scores, who also happens to be the TD who is generating the largest income stream for the PDGA, also has the biggest incentive to get it done.

OK, thanks for the responses.