Hey John, can't wait to check out the new holes you have designed out in Kamloops.

I am excited (as are all BCers) to have a world class disc golf complex in the works.

Cheers

Jaymo

So what Millennium disc are you asking about? "new holes" "kamloops" or "BCers"? :DWhat do people think about the new QOLF? Is the QOLF more overstable than the SOLF?

When do you expect the SMS (Sirius MS) to be released?

So what Millennium disc are you asking about? "new holes" "kamloops" or "BCers"? :DWhat do people think about the new QOLF? Is the QOLF more overstable than the SOLF?

Yeah I'd love to hear about the QOLF too! I used to throw Millenium a lot until I started developing more snap and power and flipping my QJLS too frequently. I just didn't feel the EXP1 was the answer. Love that sweet opaque Quantum plastic though, that stuff is nigh-invulnerable!!

nanook

I am interested in the QOLF too, the SOLF has replaced all my teebirds and half my avengers, while the SOLS is working to replace the other half of my avengers. However The SOLF is not stable enough to take the ESP avengers spot. Would the QOLF do the trick? I like to carry minimal molds, and perfer multiples in different plastics and stages of wear. Thanks John, I dont think that any two drivers compliment each other as well as the SOLF/SOLS

The City of Kamloops (basically in the middle of vancouver and calgary) Got John up there to do a survey/design layout for a new 36 hole pro-level disc golf complex (to go with the already 18 holes of decent golf that are there).

But yeah I have heard good things about the Orion Sirius. I saw one of our locals ripping it the other weekend. And I still want to try the aurora. It's hard to get anything other than Innova and Discraft up here though. :(

Never throw them but did bust out a SOLF from AM World Doubles and some what liked it, thought it was inbetween a orc and beast, which I know several players would love it.

I am interested in the QOLF too, the SOLF has replaced all my teebirds and half my avengers, while the SOLS is working to replace the other half of my avengers. However The SOLF is not stable enough to take the ESP avengers spot. Would the QOLF do the trick? I like to carry minimal molds, and perfer multiples in different plastics and stages of wear. Thanks John, I dont think that any two drivers compliment each other as well as the SOLF/SOLS


Carrying minimal molds in different plastics would be nice. Might a QOLS be in the works?

nanook

I was throwing Preds, Avengers, Teebirds, Wasps and Wizards, Now its Preds, Esp Avenger, SOLF, SOLS, Wasps and Wizards. My roller is still an avenger until I break in a OLS.

The Millenium line is pretty sweet now, but it is missing two important things. First, they need a new overstable standard. The EXP 1 was basically a flatter Banshee as far as I could tell, which is outdated now. The EXP 2 should be Monsterish, or something new all together. Then they also need a small diameter upshot-mid type disc.

A beaded Qmega would be aswome. The newest additions to the line has definately finished spanning the gap from being a Innova spin off to having its own origionality. It almost seems the SOLF is what the Star Starfire should have been.

if they would make a QOLF-X, they would have it.

It almost seems the SOLF is what the Star Starfire should have been.



"For disctance, accuracy, and wind resistance, the Orion LF is the complete package. It's one of the top 3 long drivers I've ever designed...maybe even #1. If you are going o have one driver in your bag - and you want top performance - the Orion LF is it."

- Dave Dunipace, inventor of the modern golf disc and the genius behind all MILLENNIUM and INNOVA discs

any questions....



I cannot wait to get a Sirius MS into my bag. :D:D

John Houck bought me dinner once. He also made me a SWEET deal on some Omega Drivers. :D

He's taller in person.

It almost seems the SOLF is what the Star Starfire should have been.



"For disctance, accuracy, and wind resistance, the Orion LF is the complete package. It's one of the top 3 long drivers I've ever designed...maybe even #1. If you are going o have one driver in your bag - and you want top performance - the Orion LF is it."

- Dave Dunipace, inventor of the modern golf disc and the genius behind all MILLENNIUM and INNOVA discs

any questions....



I cannot wait to get a Sirius MS into my bag. :D:D



Exactly what y'all said!!!!!!! Including the Sirius MS. I like the QMS but the SMS with a bit more sitffness...... ahhhh....... (disclaimer on any sexual double entendre - couldn't really go with firmer , or harder , and less floppy was totally unacceptable) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Exactly what y'all said!!!!!!! Including the Sirius MS. I like the QMS but the SMS with a bit more sitffness...... ahhhh....... (disclaimer on any sexual double entendre - couldn't really go with firmer , or harder , and less floppy was totally unacceptable) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Hilarious. Thank you :D

Exactly what y'all said!!!!!!! Including the Sirius MS. I like the QMS but the SMS with a bit more sitffness...... ahhhh....... (disclaimer on any sexual double entendre - couldn't really go with firmer , or harder , and less floppy was totally unacceptable) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Fine, but what is sitffness?

Holy cow. I just saw this thread -- I had no idea it even existed.

I'm back on the road first thing tomorrow, but I'll check in if I can find some time later this week.

Looking forward to getting back to Kamloops soon for the next step in the process of building two tremendous courses.

And really looking forward to the release of the Sirius Aurora MS in early November.

Thanks,
John

really looking forward to the release of the Sirius Aurora MS in early November.



yes :Dyes :D yes! :cool:

gotta love the MS!!!

Exactly what y'all said!!!!!!! Including the Sirius MS. I like the QMS but the SMS with a bit more sitffness...... ahhhh....... (disclaimer on any sexual double entendre - couldn't really go with firmer , or harder , and less floppy was totally unacceptable) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Fine, but what is sitffness?



Oh my!!! Hope MTL isn't following this thread. But to clarify, SITffness is a mental state induced after a disc golf course workday starting at 8:30 and ending at 2:30 during which seemingly tens of thousands of yards of rock dust is moved, raked, levelled and tamped. :cool:

A SMS?! Could the Star Coyote be on the way out?

So will John H. answer any questions on this thread or what?

So will John H. answer any questions on this thread or what?



He did just a few hours ago.

I would say the QOLF is like a long firebird (fast and dependable)

really looking forward to the release of the Sirius Aurora MS in early November.



Oh my. The perfect compliment to my "trying to get it beat in" AMS :)

Note to my favorite supplier who does read this board.....168 to 170 please :D:D It will be my Christmas present to me :D:D

I spent the weekend throwing my QOLF. So here is my "one weekend review". The QOLF is a SLIGHTLY more overstable version of the SOLF. At high speed, the turn to the right (RHBH) is identical to it's Sirius sister. Those of you with more snap might have a different answer here. At the back end, the low speed fade is more than the SOLF, but not by much. I liked the QOLF for throwing uphill, into head winds and when the winds were crossing from my left. I prefer my SOLS for downhill and downwind shots.

For those that think the SOLF is too flippy, you might like the QOLF. For those that want a comparison, I would put the QOLF in the same lines as a Valk, a Viking, or an SL. Personally, I don't like the comparison to a Champ Orc because IMO the Orc starts turning left faster.

I don't know if it's my hands or what but me and Q just don't mix.

I love the two new discs, they are excellent, but I tend to like the harder plastics and I just can't get a consistent grip on Q. The Sirus is better but even it isn't as grippy as Star. I had always assumed that Q = Champion and that Sirus = Star but maybe that was a bad assumption?

really looking forward to the release of the Sirius Aurora MS in early November.



Oh my. The perfect compliment to my "trying to get it beat in" AMS :)

Note to my favorite supplier who does read this board.....168 to 170 please :D:D It will be my Christmas present to me :D:D

I spent the weekend throwing my QOLF. So here is my "one weekend review". The QOLF is a SLIGHTLY more overstable version of the SOLF. At high speed, the turn to the right (RHBH) is identical to it's Sirius sister. Those of you with more snap might have a different answer here. At the back end, the low speed fade is more than the SOLF, but not by much. I liked the QOLF for throwing uphill, into head winds and when the winds were crossing from my left. I prefer my SOLS for downhill and downwind shots.

For those that think the SOLF is too flippy, you might like the QOLF. For those that want a comparison, I would put the QOLF in the same lines as a Valk, a Viking, or an SL. Personally, I don't like the comparison to a Champ Orc because IMO the Orc starts turning left faster.



I very much disagree, but fully admit disc flight is highly dependent on throwing style.

Valk
Viking almost = Sirus OLS
Orc
SOLF
QOLF

In that order. Keep in mind that for me a good snap on the LF results in a long straight drive with a hard fade at the end (similar to what I get with an Orc). But it is easier to get that flight with an Orc.

In that order. Keep in mind that for me a good snap on the LF results in a long straight drive with a hard fade at the end (similar to what I get with an Orc). But it is easier to get that flight with an Orc.



It is very depentent on throwing style/power. For me Orcs got a nice gradual turn and a hard fade. The SOLF is a bit more stable for me taking a bullet straight line and a predictable fade. I throw a 174 and a 163, both wont turn (hyzerflipped)unless into the wind or I roll my wrist but the 163 will be longer w/ less fade.

I take this one from John, or anyone else that has solid input.

What do you use the QJLS for? Being kind of new to the Millenium line, I bought the QJLS to do two things. First. I wanted to try out a Q driver. This was in preparation for the QOLF. Second. I wanted to throw a JLS. This was in preparation for the SJLS. I now have the QOLF and I will have a SJLS soon, so where does this leave the QJLS?

The QJLS is basically a better Champion Leopard. It flies pretty slow and is not great in the wind, but in normal conditions it is one of the straightest point to point fairway drivers on the market. One downfall of the current production version of the QJLS is its limited range. In older CE-type plastics it was a loooong disc. I havn't thrown the Sirius plastic JLS yet, but I bet it is the way to go with that mold.

The QJ in the current line of J QJ's, (1.2 and later), are more stable and not quite as long as the earlier versions of the QJ,(CEJLS and 1.1). As stated earlier the later version is not quite as long and to me as predictable. The regular JLS is also much closer to the flight path of the earlier CEJLS and QJ, only problem here is that they beat up really easily. The new Sirius JLS has a flight path very, very similar to to the original CEJLS. It is very straight from point to point, and with either a stronger snap or slight anny release, it will give you that left to right (RHBH) flight. It generally stays on that with a come back to the middle. I also think that it has the longer glide at the end of the flight path, like the original JLS. It is also much tougher that the original... I hit a 't' post at close range and found no visable sign of damage and no change of flight path.

The SJLS is a great fairway driver for me and anything under 350 feet that I need a straight to anny path. I carry a SJLS, and 2 QJ's( 1 for more of an anny and one beaten for a roller. )

Anything longer and straight, I throw a Sirius Orion LS and an original Orion LS.

Now for the SOLF and QOLF all I can say is LOOONG, STABLE and PREDICTABLE.

Man I cannot wait for the Sirius MS.

Now for the SOLF and QOLF all I can say is LOOONG, STABLE and PREDICTABLE.




yup, definately my new go to driver. Replaced my teebirds and most my avengers (except 1 Z and 1 beat for rollers). I can not get over this disc :D

The QJLS is basically a better Champion Leopard. It flies pretty slow and is not great in the wind, but in normal conditions it is one of the straightest point to point fairway drivers on the market. One downfall of the current production version of the QJLS is its limited range. In older CE-type plastics it was a loooong disc. I havn't thrown the Sirius plastic JLS yet, but I bet it is the way to go with that mold.

Boldface is mine; I definitely agree with that statement. IMHO the newer, champion-style QJLS can�t hold a candle to the old, CE-type version. I still have a couple of the older QJLSs in the CE-type plastic that can get BIG distance on a straight or anhyzer line (YMMV).

I haven't got to throw the Orions (LS and LF) yet, but I'm hoping that they fill in what I felt was missing in Millenium�s line of drivers (again IMHO, based on my throwing style).

Here�s what I�m crossing my fingers for:
Orion LF = long overstable/wind
Orion LS = long straight
CE-style QJLS = long straight/anhyzer

If so, I might start throwing my Millenium stuff again. Of course if I do, and I manage to lose my limited supply of old-style QJLSs, I�ll be SOL since they are so difficult to replace�

nanook

Eric, those are similar to the results I have been getting w/ my orions. The SOLF could be alittle more stable for headwinds, but in no wind it is perfect (and Im glad its not more stable). Im thinking this would work better
QOLF: headwind distance
SOLF: very straight w/ fade
SOLS: Very Straight w/ less fade
OLS: Very Straight/Anhyzer/Turnover ect

My 163 SOLF handles headwinds pretty well, but will turn. My 174 Handles them better with a slight turn. I am hoping the QOLF will be more similar to a Z/ESP avenger as far as wind stability. Then I would be set.
You definately should give them a shot, the SOLF is the best stable distance driver I have thrown. (Wraith, Surge and Inferno all are alittle high speed understable, while i think the SOLF is just stable)

Thanks for the info Pat, it is nice to get a review from someone who is also throwing at altitude! I will definitely give them a try. The guys at the new DG shop in Aurora have a couple of QOLFs coming in the next shipment for me. I'll pick up a SOLF and SOLS next time I stop in 'cause I know they have those in stock already.

Now I just need to find a few more CE-type QJLSs in the mid-160g range. While I'm at it, I'll look for the Holy Grail too! ;)

I think you will be pleasantly suprised by the S-JLS. It's not quite the same as the CE-JLS, but it's pretty close.

Mr. Houck,

I have several Q-Sentinels in the white, translucent plastic. This Q-plastic has a unique, silky feel to it, as opposed to the glassy feel of the current champion or Z-type plastics. It seems to be the closest thing to the old CE-type plastic that I have seen in a while. Any plans to run some drivers in this plastic (especially the QJLS)?

nanook

Although I usaully agree with Disc Speed, I have to disagree here. Personally, I think the Champion-type QJLS actually go farther than the CE-type QJLS'. For me:

Early Opaque: I always looked at them as more durable SE TLs. I hated the original CE plastic until I found QJs, and they basically forced my SE TL into retirement. I really didnt use them for distance until I could flip hyser them. Even then, I didnt try much.

Champion-type QJLS, "cloudy clear": These were the ones that looked similar to early Champion plastic ( Think Beasts, Orcs, Monsters era ) in that they were mainly clear with slight color bursts that looked like small colored clouds and puffs of coloring in the plastic. I thought these were more TL than Leopard, as well. I thought they had alot of high speed stability, more than the Opaque versions, and would go farther. When they finally got beat in they held excellent long anny lines, made great rollers and eventually became Champion-type Leopards.

Newest QJLS': most of the QJLS' I have in the shop now are in very stiff plastic, similar to the Champion Orcs and Starfires I have seen recently. Real clear, real stiff. I almost look at them as a third type, as the only real suitable shot Ive had and seen with them has been a hyser. They also seem a little faster to me, similar to the older opaques.

About the Sents: I could be wrong, but I was told once there was only one or two runs of Sentinels done, and there wont be another until Serious plastic. All the Sents I get are the same, translucent white or opaque yellow. I also heard the first Q-Sents were done with the remaining CE Roc plastic mix, from '01.

Maybe someone on here can dispell those myths?

The first run of clear QJLSs were for sure late run CE plastic similar to the last run of CE TLs. These were super long and in my opinion were better than the opaque runs. They got flippy, but with hyzer would stand up straight and glide forever.

Newest QJLS': most of the QJLS' I have in the shop now are in very stiff plastic, similar to the Champion Orcs and Starfires I have seen recently. Real clear, real stiff. I almost look at them as a third type, as the only real suitable shot Ive had and seen with them has been a hyser.




This one I can understand (as my QJLS is new). I'm beginning to see my QJLS as a fourth Millenium driver (SOLS, SOLF, QOLF and QJLS having the most turn on the back end.)

I'm getting the SJLS with the belief that it will become my straight line fairway driver.

As to everyone's comments on the QS. This disc is just way too much fun in the wind. It's doesn't seem to matter where the wind is coming from. It just goes and doesn't seem to be bothered.

The QS is a great midrange, for sure! As much as I love my Buzzzes and Wasps, I'll slip a Q-Sentinel into my bag if I know it's going to be extra windy, or if I need a low, hard skip-hyzer.

nanook

Mr. Houck, can we get some easier to remember names for your stock, for those of us with small brains? No letters please. Maybe use ex-Bills players or nicknames of ex-Bills. OJ, Kelly, Tasker, that kicker, etc.

the Thurman LF Long Fast

Mr. Houck, can we get some easier to remember names for your stock, for those of us with small brains? No letters please. Maybe use ex-Bills players or nicknames of ex-Bills. OJ, Kelly, Tasker, that kicker, etc.



James, do ya really want a "Tasker" in your bag? :eek:

The QJLS & QOLF are O.K. The big, bold hotstamps are pretty easy to figure out...it's the other discs in the line that the "small brains" may need help with indentifying.

Hmmm, sounds like a great idea...an accurate little Flutie driver would be nice. Maybe a fat lipped, old school, slow flying approach disc...a perfect lie for the old Cornelius Bennett! :DWho couldn't use an O.J. to get outta trouble? :p

Mr. Houck, can we get some easier to remember names for your stock, for those of us with small brains? No letters please. Maybe use ex-Bills players or nicknames of ex-Bills. OJ, Kelly, Tasker, that kicker, etc.



The Norwood would definetely be your most understable driver. "Looks like that shots going a little wide right". :D

Norwood, that was his name. Yes, unstable indeed.

Alex, another one for OJ could be 'The juice.' That way, when Olse crushes a 500 footer, it's only because he was using the juice.

Norwood, that was his name. Yes, unstable indeed.

Alex, another one for OJ could be 'The juice.' That way, when Olse crushes a 500 footer, it's only because he was using the juice.



The OJ would be Killer

So I got to to throw a SOLF and a SOLS today (both 168g). Not too much though, I was playing a course that is mainly "pitch 'n' putt". Only four holes long enough to warrant drivers: two for the SOLF and two for the SOLS. Results? 4 easy dueces! Definitely need to take these discs out to some longer-hole courses and put them through their paces. But I really like what I see so far. Looking forward to getting my QOLFs this weekend!

nanook

Threw a white, 168g QOLF on several holes this past Tuesday. First throw; hit the top of the basket off of the tee! Nice disc! Mine is definitely more overstable than my SOLF (also 168g). Surprisingly, this QOLF plastic seems remarkably similar to the white, translucent Q-Sentinels I like so much. Great feel to it. If Mr. Houck is listening: you need to run some QJLSs and Orion LSs in this same plastic if at all possible!!!

nanook

So what is up with Millenium?

Why does this company exist?

Why is it an Innova offshoot? Or is it?

Why have I never heard of any of your discs?

So what is up with Millenium?<font color="red">What do you mean </font>

Why does this company exist? <font color="red">It started the push by Innova to get better plastics into the discs. It directly resulted in the SE and eventually CE discs. CE may never of come about without the Millenium push! </font>

Why is it an Innova offshoot?<font color="red">To show that a higher price for better plastic would sell! </font> Or is it?<font color="red">It was and is now a seperate company run by John H. </font>

Why have I never heard of any of your discs? <font color="red">No telling, several people in North TX throw them regularly. Shoot Coda was crushing his SOF he got at World Doubles! </font>

:D:cool:

They throw Millennium in Northern Kentucky and all the states around here. One of our local players aced a 519 foot hole at Banklick with an EXP! Not sure where anyone could have been not to have heard of Millennium discs. Anyway, just wanted to let everyone know they are thrown quite a bit.

Why does this company exist? <font color="red">It started the push by Innova to get better plastics into the discs. It directly resulted in the SE and eventually CE discs. CE may never of come about without the Millenium push! </font>



So does Millenium have better plastic right now than say the Star line?

I really like the Sirius plastic. It has almost a DX grippiness with premium plastic durability. I was throwing the SOLF for a few months with little change in the flight of the disc.

MC
--J.P. is my hero.

Why does this company exist? <font color="red">It started the push by Innova to get better plastics into the discs. It directly resulted in the SE and eventually CE discs. CE may never of come about without the Millenium push! </font>



So does Millenium have better plastic right now than say the Star line?



I think John H. is pretty involved and has a clear idea of what he wants the plastic to feel and fly like. Millenium has the same raw ingredients as Innova, but I believe that because of the smaller number of runs and the John H. factor there is better quality control than the mother company. I've thrown Star Wraiths that were durable and others that literally changed stability with each good whack. I own a SOLF and SOLS and I can personally vouch for the durability of these plastics and molds. They break in at first and then stay.

I really like the SOLF and the QOLF,the Q is a little more stable at first but breaks in to be somewhat like a CFR startfire or champion starfire;the SOLF is more like a mix between a wraith and a teerex.IMO

John, to avoid spelling out all the discs in the Millenium line here is a short list of astrological terms(excluding the zodiac) to facilitate naming of future releases. I love the discs, but when someone asks what you are throwing, it would be nice to say the sirius orion and not have to differentiate between the two orions. Anyway here is the list.

Corona, Cosmos, Equinox, Meteor, Nebula, Solstice, Supernova, Zenith, Zodiac
Atlas, Electra, Andromeda, Mensa

The Mensa disc, so smart don't even think when you throw it :D

I doubt i will ever take my Qms out of my bag!! what are the plans for the SMS?

any plans for an orion disc [or something similar] that is more overstable than the qolf?

I doubt i will ever take my Qms out of my bag!! what are the plans for the SMS?



If you carry an SMS, you can send your disc to a friend's cell phone, and...oh, wait.

any plans for an orion disc [or something similar] that is more overstable than the qolf?



This is what I have been hoping for. What color QOLFs are overstable? I've thrown the orange and yellow runs and found them to be very similar to SOLFs in terms of stability. The SOLF was a bit faster, so it seems a bit more stable, but my QOLF experience is quite limited. Neither of them are nearly as stable as a champion Starfire when thrown flat.

Super Nova has already been taken:

Super Nova (http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/nova.html)

any plans for an orion disc [or something similar] that is more overstable than the qolf?



Would you like a longer EXP1? Personally, those things start turning left about the time I look at them :D:D

And about the letters....I like the letters. I work all day with sequences of letters that don't make sense. One day, the guy that replaces me will curse my grave :D:D

Now is there room in my bag for an SMS.....splat (disc hits floor)....now there is.

I doubt i will ever take my Qms out of my bag!! what are the plans for the SMS?


I picked up a very gummy see-thru orange Q-MS for glow golf on account of its transparency... WOW, what a great disc! Can handle wind with ease, though I would have never guessed that it would. Do these come in a stiffer plastic? Any changes in flight if they do?

The old CE-like QMSes were stiffer.

I would figure that the SMS or the OMS or the QOMS would be stiff too....did I confuse ya yet?

What's the history of the Aurora MS/MFs? Did the Sentinel replace this mold? :confused:

What's the history of the Aurora MS/MFs? Did the Sentinel replace this mold? :confused:



As far as I know it was always the Sentinal MF.

Originally, the aurora line had an MS(midrange straight) and MF(midrange fade). The MF was discontinued and replaced by the sentinel. While they have different flights, they both fill the overstable midrange spot in the bag. For those of you who care, the basis for millenium has always been to make a straight disc and an overstable disc that feel identical in the hand. Thus the Polaris LS and LF, Aurora MS and MF, and now the Orion LS and LF. The idea is that your throws will be more consistent if the molds are very similar, and the disc should come out of your hand the same every time. FYI

I'd say that's keeping it simple...I think I'll throw Millenium! :D

The overstable counterpart to the JLS was the EXP 1 I believe, but I haven't seen any new ESP 1s in a long time. The OLF is pretty straight stable when thrown hard. It is great for all kinds of hyzer shots, but it doesn't have the low straight then skip hard line of a true overstable disc. The OLF also requires significant adjustments in release angle based on wind conditions, so it is not the safest choice in really windy conditions. So this leaves the current production line of Millenium without an overstable disc faster than the Sentinel.

A 180g Sirius/Quantum Tachyon II is needed...

The EXP1 still exists and is the most overstable disc in the Millenium line. If you need some look at circularproductions.com. I agree that the OLF in any plastic can be touchy in any kind of headwind. I prefer to throw discs flat as opposed to tweaking out on angles, and the EXP lets me do that in the wind. Hope that helps.

The Sirius Aurora MS made its debut at Texas Teams this weekend as just a touch more stable than the QMS. They should be nationally available soon.

More like the stability of a kc pro roc.

This thing was making me look stupid at z-boaz yesterday.

The Sirius Aurora MS made its debut at Texas Teams this weekend as just a touch more stable than the QMS. They should be nationally available soon.



A touch more stable than the Q ms. That sound you heard was my brain grinding.

For those that are serious (as opposed so Sirus) about the MS. Have you tried different weights for your AMS or QMS? If so, what have are impressions throwing light (under 170) vs heavy (over 177).

I have only thrown a 180 gram SMS and it is actually quite a bit more overstable than other Aurora MS's I've thrown. I will have to see if it breaks in, but for now it wants to hyzer.

just had about 75 throws with some sols's, solf's, and dx wraiths. all new, comparable weights, multiple wind directions. big flat marked field. The sols and solf were very similar to each other, with the solf a hair faster and more stable. dx wraith had about the same turn as the sols. solf had a little less than those. dx wraith had a harder fade than either, the sols the least. the sols was the most controlable across a variety of arm speeds, offered the straightest flights, and was a little shorter than the others.
The solf and dx wraith were close in distance. solf had a straighter flight path and was easier to control and consistantly reach 400 or so on a fairly straight flight path with some fade. the dx wraith would hyzer hard after a slight initial turn and come up short of 400 more often than not. on the few throws i nailed it, which is harder to do and results in a wider flight path than the solf, it got out to about 475. i did totally connect with one throw with the solf that hit at least 450. that throw was very straight.
These are awesome discs! they will replace my dx wraith [distance] and star leopard [control] as my drivers. this will hopefully bring more consistancy to my long shots, as the orions feel the same [almost] in the hand. i will still need the z-pred until they [hopefully] make a fast overstable disc that feels the same as the other orions. solf-x? exp-long? the pred is a good choice for me now as it has the same width rim, but a hair deeper.

I have only thrown a 180 gram SMS and it is actually quite a bit more overstable than other Aurora MS's I've thrown. I will have to see if it breaks in, but for now it wants to hyzer.



Wow, the same polymer that made the Shark less overstable makes the MS more so...You never can tell! Does it have a lot of flashing at the bottom of the mold? This flashing can really affect the stability of a new disc, making SOLSs hard to turn, and could be the only reason your SMS is overstable. If not, I'd like to know because an MS that started out a with a little fade without a sharp feel in the hand would be sweet.

are there any plans to make the Orion LS in Q plastic, and if so -- is there an ETA?

recently i ran into a clear yellow gummy max weight QMS and i really like the feel. were many of these made and can anyone tell me if they are similar to the stiffer QMS's in terms of stability and durability?

recently i ran into a clear yellow gummy max weight QMS and i really like the feel. were many of these made and can anyone tell me if they are similar to the stiffer QMS's in terms of stability and durability?



I have thrown most alterations of the MS, and I had a gummy 179 for a couple of weeks before I lost it. This I can tell you: gummy was more understable than all other MSs. Gummy pretty much flew the same as my Star Coyote, with the Coyote having a little more range. Other stiffer QMSs I have thrown have been truly stable, meaning they hold their line thrown hard or soft. All MSs have great glide. Combine the "0" in high speed turn with incredible glide and minimal fade, and this is the essense of the MS imo.

thanks for the info on the gummy QMS's. are you one of the throwers who find all "floppy" discs fly less stable for you -- or you like me and find the soft versions tend to fly just as stable as their stiffer counterparts? (JK vs. KC big bead Aviars, etc.)

also -- i have only thrown the opaque QMS's. what do you find to be the differences between the clear stiff and stiff opaque QMS's ? definitely a great disc and i am looking forward to the SMS!

I'm new to the MS, got a clearer/floppy Q for glow - like a longer Aero in it's flight, but is more high-speed stable. Flight path was like a rope with only a coupla feet of fade at the end.

John or someone from Millenium?

We sell just about every disc made out of our shop here in St Louis.
Do you have a price list for your products and a flight chart?

Do you have any pint of sales fixtures or displays that could add to a Millenium section on our store?

Please send information about gettig set up as a customer to david@gdstour.com


Our club here in St Louis will get to over 300 members this year and maybe close to 500. We run about 100 events counting leagues and tournaments each year.
I will gladly pass the information along to them at our next meeting, in fact, expect to hear from one of our board memebrs about an advertising and marketing opportunity for the upcoming sean. Is there an email address to send off information about partnering with our club??


John are you out there????

thanks for the info on the gummy QMS's. are you one of the throwers who find all "floppy" discs fly less stable for you -- or you like me and find the soft versions tend to fly just as stable as their stiffer counterparts? (JK vs. KC big bead Aviars, etc.)

also -- i have only thrown the opaque QMS's. what do you find to be the differences between the clear stiff and stiff opaque QMS's ? definitely a great disc and i am looking forward to the SMS!



I have thrown gummy discs in the past, but I have found them to be less stable at high speeds in general, at least the mids and putters. I used to throw a gummy Qmega and I loved it. I would have to throw it with hyzer, but it would stay pretty stable. I can't throw the new Sirius Omegas for some reason. I think that they are too tall for my grip. The gummy Qmega was really flat. Anyway, I could see the gummy QMS being a good shot up to about 80% power, at least for me. Beyond that and I flip them, and it is not very smooth. I do throw flat across my chest, where as most people always throw mids with a touch of hyzer. A stiff QMS thrown with a touch of hyzer flies on a touch of a hyzer line, no flip.

gummy discs have more air friction, which makes them alittle less stable and a little longer. This is the main reason DX is longer than Champ, and also flies more stable.

gummy discs have more air friction, which makes them alittle less stable and a little longer. This is the main reason DX is longer than Champ, and also flies more stable.



The thing is that gummy discs posess two characteristics that keep this from holding true as it does for Dx: First, gummy discs with their heavy drag are far slower than their slicker counterparts. Second, gummy discs lack rigidity, which causes them to distort their shape at the hit. The combination of the slow drag and shape distortion results in an uncontrolled understability when thrown hard. Because of this, I don't find gummy discs to be longer than the same mold in different plastic. As I said previously, I think that these discs are best suited for finesse shots or players with less armspeed.

gummy discs have more air friction, which makes them alittle less stable and a little longer. This is the main reason DX is longer than Champ, and also flies more stable.



I keep hearing this, and I think it is, well... wrong.

The surface of the disc does very little. A rough disc goes shorter than a smooth one, in general.

I took a BRAND NEW Star Beast and tweaked on it until I got it flying pretty good. Then I sanded the entire surface with 80 grit sandpaper. It did NOTHING to the flight that I could see. It certainly had no drastic effect at all. The surface is not the over-riding factor effecting the flight at, at least.

The reason DX is longer is because it is lowest density plastic, making the large winged discs less gyroscopic. A less gyroscopic disc therefore does not tend to force the nose up at the end of the flight (I believe this is due to precession).

Once someone figures out to make a premium, tough, super slick plastic in a lower density than DX plastic, it will be the longest plastic...

i have had some gummy orcs and beasts that were more stable than their non gummy counterpart and the gummy ones were around the 160g range where the others were 170-172g

A gummy disc would flatten out more due to centripital force...would it not? Would that then be a flatter, 'faster' disc? How would the stability be influenced?

that would make it more overstable, prsumably. don't know if that is the reason, but i had a couple 150 gummy teebirds that were beefy. anyone got any 150-163 gummy firebirds? i had a yellow one [161] a while ago and it was awesome. light gummy qolf?

I've got a gummy beast 166g if anybody wants it. Brand new...never thrown.

I have been searching and searching and searching for an overstable headwind mid range that would stay overstable as it wears. I had found the mid I liked for flattened shots and slight headwind turnovers (Squall or Z Storm), but nothing I tried seemed to be the right disc for me for true headwind use (Drone, Demon).

My favorite overstable mid was the flattop DX Ching Roc, but the life span for reliable headwind use was limited as the disc would break in and the bead would wear.

I have always been a fan of Millenium, so when I realized they offered an overstable mid I checked it out at the store. Much to my surprise the Q Sentinel looked like Ching Roc in tacky Champion type plastic.

I bought a 180 and it indeed flies like the Ching. I have a new 180 DX Ching Roc and I was throwing them back to back. The DX Ching might be a tick longer, but not enough to fret (mind you these are heyser headwind throws with little flattening---which is what I want the disc for in the first place).

The Q cost the same as the Ching, so even if I lose it, it still costs me the same.

Hopefully the Sentinel will wear like most Champion type discs and will retain its overstablity. :D

the Q Sentinel does hold up very well...I have had the same one in my bag for over two years now that holds the same line as the first time I threw it

the Q Sentinel does hold up very well...I have had the same one in my bag for over two years now that holds the same line as the first time I threw it



That is good news!!!!

IMHO.

The Sentinel is way more HSS than any Roc I have ever thrown, and that includes a KC Roc.

A KC Roc is flippy compared to a Ching and a Ching is flippy compared to this thing.

I tested the Sentinel into some NASTY, NASTY, COLD winds today. Using back to back throws with a new Ching Roc of the same weight, there was no comparison.

Surprisingly, I noticed very little glide difference downwind. I did not expect that.

This disc is not really that overstable, it is just HSS to very high speeds...and the fade is very reasonable. So, it just goes straight at nearly any speed with a little bit of overstability.

I know this disc is some derivative of a Roc. Dave D said it is kin to a Moray, whatever that is... they should make this mold. It might be better than a modern Roc (blasphemy I know....)

The Sirius Aurora MS made its debut at Texas Teams this weekend as just a touch more stable than the QMS. They should be nationally available soon.



Santa's been looking for the SMS. Anybody hiding some...under the couch cushions....up in the closet behind the old bowling trophy....maybe taped to the roof inside the dog's house?????

I have 2 red 180g SMS's from TX Teams I might be willing to sell both...

I just visited the Millenium website, golfdisc.com (http://golfdisc.com) - pretty cool! :cool:

I need to get me a Sirius AMS, I love the other two versions I have.

Anyway to the question...

What does Millennium have that would replace a DX Gazelle?

My bag is almost 100% Millennium exclusive and I'm loving it every time I play. I have three discs that aren't Millennium (Firebird, Sidewinder, Wizards)

I would say a JLS for a replacement for a Gazelle. Also, the SOLS makes a great replacement for the Sidewinder once it is broken in. It will have a similar stability and glide as a Sidewinder, just with much more of a tendency to stay straighter.

I would offer a slightly different opinion for your replacement(s).

I would see the SJLS as the replacment for the SW. The SOLS requires more power (than the SJLS) to get it to stay on the line. Depending on how you throw, you might want to step that down to the Millennium JLS. As for you Gazelle, I would move to the Polaris LS. Out of the box, the PLS might be too jumpy, but it should calm down to a (for me) tunnel shooting short driver (just can't call it a mid range).

As for me, I have finished my conversion to Millennium. But with three JLS(s) and three MS(s), I still have too many choices. :D

I need to get me a Sirius AMS, I love the other two versions I have.

Anyway to the question...

What does Millennium have that would replace a DX Gazelle?

My bag is almost 100% Millennium exclusive and I'm loving it every time I play. I have three discs that aren't Millennium (Firebird, Sidewinder, Wizards)

Hey Josh!

What's up with the switch to Millenium? :confused: Not that there is anything wrong with that, they have some sweet discs. Especially with the QOLF and Sirius line! But I thought you were going with Gateway? The move out to the western slope affecting your disc selection? Change of scenery = change of discs? :D:D

nanook

I have been searching and searching and searching for an overstable headwind mid range that would stay overstable as it wears. I had found the mid I liked for flattened shots and slight headwind turnovers (Squall or Z Storm), but nothing I tried seemed to be the right disc for me for true headwind use (Drone, Demon).

My favorite overstable mid was the flattop DX Ching Roc, but the life span for reliable headwind use was limited as the disc would break in and the bead would wear.

I have always been a fan of Millenium, so when I realized they offered an overstable mid I checked it out at the store. Much to my surprise the Q Sentinel looked like Ching Roc in tacky Champion type plastic.

I bought a 180 and it indeed flies like the Ching. I have a new 180 DX Ching Roc and I was throwing them back to back. The DX Ching might be a tick longer, but not enough to fret (mind you these are heyser headwind throws with little flattening---which is what I want the disc for in the first place).

The Q cost the same as the Ching, so even if I lose it, it still costs me the same.

Hopefully the Sentinel will wear like most Champion type discs and will retain its overstablity. :D



Are you talking about the MF?

Are you talking about the MF?




Yes he is. The MF only appears on the Millennium plastic. The Q plastic just goes by Q Sentinel (QS).

I need to get me a Sirius AMS, I love the other two versions I have.

Anyway to the question...

What does Millennium have that would replace a DX Gazelle?

My bag is almost 100% Millennium exclusive and I'm loving it every time I play. I have three discs that aren't Millennium (Firebird, Sidewinder, Wizards)

Hey Josh!

What's up with the switch to Millenium? :confused: Not that there is anything wrong with that, they have some sweet discs. Especially with the QOLF and Sirius line! But I thought you were going with Gateway? The move out to the western slope affecting your disc selection? Change of scenery = change of discs? :D:D

nanook



Sup Eric, I dunno, I started to switch @ Johnny Roberts tournament I had a really rough 1st round (had a hard time with decision making on which discs to use), so I retooled my bag during lunch and pretty much took out all non Millennium discs (left in SOLS, SOLF, QMS, AMS, SMF a Sidewinder, My Gazelles and my Wizards and shot -4 second round at Bird's Nest (Wish I hadn't gotten sick for round 3 - 4 on sunday for the Johnny Course :( I definately woulda placed).

I just really like the way Millennium feels in my hands, plus I got my first Ace with a QMS lol. I also like Millennium because they don't have a million discs. I've noticed since I started throwing Millennium, I'm more consistent on my drives, they are more controlled, and I'm carrying less discs and still playing well.
A couple of my favorite discs was the Special Blend Roc and Special Blend Orc by Innova, Star is not Special Blend, and IMO Sirius feels exactly like Special Blend.

Tell ya what tho, 1000 feet lower elevation really changes the way ya throw. I was quite surprised.
I sure miss the Mile High City tho. But all is good over here on the Western Slope. I got a sweet technical course 2 blocks from my house in Fruita, it's only 12 holes but it's kewl and very very good for my technical control game. No tags over here tho :(
I'll be in town for Christmas weekend so hopefully I can play Winter Warriors @ Paco's on Saturday.

Tell ya what tho, 1000 feet lower elevation really changes the way ya throw. I was quite surprised.



could you please explain what you found?

An all Millenium bag is very realistic.

What is a QMS?

a QMS is an Aurora MS in Q (champion) plastic -- a very sweet Midrange!

Visit Millenium disc page here (http://www.golfdisc.com/golfdiscs.shtml)

:D

Anyone else beat in an SOLF to the point of turnover disc? Even better than the OLS.

Tell ya what tho, 1000 feet lower elevation really changes the way ya throw. I was quite surprised.



could you please explain what you found?

An all Millenium bag is very realistic.

What is a QMS?



I found that my discs have more float on them. The first couple weeks of playing at 4200feet I kept putting over the basket. Also found that some of my discs aren't as overstable as they are back in Denver.

Tell ya what tho, 1000 feet lower elevation really changes the way ya throw. I was quite surprised.



could you please explain what you found?

An all Millenium bag is very realistic.

What is a QMS?



I found that my discs have more float on them. The first couple weeks of playing at 4200feet I kept putting over the basket. Also found that some of my discs aren't as overstable as they are back in Denver.

True that! I played in Michigan and Maine this summer and I was flipping nearly everything! I was even hyzer-flipping my Z-Crushes and I can't get that to happen here in CO unless there is a decent headwind. I just took the Flashes right out of my bag!

Funny you should mention changing up your bag after a bad round or two. I thought I was the only one who did that! I still have my all-Millenium set up for just that reason. If I have a few rounds where I just can't find a groove or hit a line, I'll bust out the Millenium discs to get back on track. Throwing a whole new set of discs gets me to refocus and pay attention to shaping shots instead of mindlessly winging discs around. Then, when I migrate back to my Discraft set-up, I am usually much sharper and accurate...

nanook

So when does JH chime in :confused: :confused:

I sent John a message asking about getting some millineum for our retail store at JB.
Also our club would like to get a contact person for the products as well.
Do you have bags and baskets?

I'm glad all of you have the time to read and post on this thread. I keep hope alive that one day I'll be able to respond to everyone's questions and comments, but right now I'm just too busy too keep up (which is why I didn�t start the thread).

We really appreciate the support you've given our excellent new discs this year, and we're looking forward to a great 2007.

Dave, I have not seen a message from you, but you'll be hearing from Shannon any minute. We would love to have more Millennium discs in the St. Louis area and appreciate your eagerness to have them.

If anyone is looking to contact Millennium directly, you can do it at playsmart@golfdisc.com, or e-mail us directly through our web site, www.golfdisc.com (http://www.golfdisc.com)

Happy Holidays to all.

Thanks,
John

Hi john :cool::D
Glad to have you rubbing elbos You need to see centralia one day.
Next to Ozark Mountian It is probably the best course I have ever played out of 416 ( I may be biased though) ;)


Replying to questins can be a full time h job :confused:

NASA pic of the day - 11/14/95 (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap951114.html)

How is the Sirius MS, straigth or a bit overstable?
Needs more use than a QMS to go straight?

I apoligize if this has been asked before (espeically if i was the one to ask :o) but i was wondering if there are any plans for a MOLF? (Millenium Standard Plastic Orion Long Fade) I think the release of that disc would kill 2 molds and 4 slots in my bag. . .

I just got my 2nd Sirius JLS. This is now my "go to" disc.
I just need six more to complete the rest of my bag.

What does a MOLF buy you? I throw all the Millennium drivers but the EXP and the MOLS (haven't had the time to buy one). Where do you see the MOLF fitting in compared to the other Millennium drivers.

i think a QOLS would be sweet as well. wouldn't an MOLF yield a grippier, flippier LF? i'd like to see both the QOLS and the MOLF without worrying about potential overlap.

I would want a flippier OLF. It may be the elevation or my form but I think the SOLF is pretty darn stable (far from overstable, but holds a straight line) I would hope a broken in MOLF would lose some fade for even straighter shots in calm conditions, or bombs in tailwinds.

I do carry a couple MOLS, and love them for hyzerflips that turn late and Straight bombs when they are new. Not to mention they are one of my favorite rollers. I dont like them Much in Sirus plastic, as new they are too stable (similar to a solf almost) and have a bit of fade, and once i broke them in, they would turn a bit and still fade a bit at the end (characteristic of more durable plastic is many discs tend to keep fade but lose HSS).

Edit: Not to mention that I think especially after losing alittle bit of the fade, the OLF in the M plastic would be a great Max D driver in the wide open (I still carry an Inferno)

So which is the grippiest and most/less stable SMS?

I would want a flippier OLF.



I get it now, but it took 4" of snow. I went out yesterday with 4" of snow (topped with a thin layer of ice). My SOLF was moving too much to the left. I couldn't get a decent rhythm because the pads were covered with ice and snow. I couldn't use my WHITE SOLS (WHITE). I don't think I would have liked my SOLS anyway with the bad pads. Ended up throwing my SJLS a lot and could see where a somewhat beat in MOLF would have been a real option.

So which is the grippiest and most/less stable SMS?


I'm not sure what you are after. To me there are four different MS discs.
1. AMS. Millennium plastic. Breaks in the most. Can be your straight to anny disc.
2. QMS - Stiff. Quantum plastic. At this point, breaks in the least. My stiff QMS flies very straight at slow (less than full power) speeds. I can power it up and turn it to the right, but that's not why I carry it.
3. QMS - gummy. Quantum plastic. At this point, my goto QMS. I can make it hold an anny line or I can throw it flat at full speed and it holds a nice long straight line that finishes left (a little).
4. SMS. Sirius plastic. My newest disc. At full speed, it wants to drift right and then come back to the original line. It's really new so I don't know how it breaks in. I haven't thrown it enough at slower speeds.

EDIT: Left something out. My stiff QMS is light. IF it were max weight (as are the others),I would expext it to have the MOST left hand turn. (As in QMS Stiff, QMS Gummy, SMS, AMS)

As far as grippiness....QMS Gummy, AMS, SMS, QMS Stiff. I believe the SMS will break in and become grippier than my AMS.

I can't help you if you are looking for a breakdown of JUST SMS discs.

John - I am trying to find out exactly what discs were in each set of the Greatest Disc Golf Holes collection.

What discs were in the first 6 and what were in the 2nd 6? Were there also only 1000 sets made of each or more/less?

any other info you have would be great also.

Thanks

how would a molf differ from a sols, flight-wise?

I imagine kid can do a better job, but this is my view....

The SOLS is a very straight flyer at my distance. Not much high speed turn (right) and very little slow speed turn (left). I throw it on a line and (basically) I expect it to stay on that line.....IFFFF I throw it with enough velocity. If I throw it too slow, it will not turn right and then fade as much as a SOLF.

An MOLF would have (in my mind) the right hand turn of an SOLF and the left hand turn of an SOLS. That would make it very close to an SOLS. BUT, for me, it wouldn't require the velocity of the SOLS.

We're splitting hairs here. But, in that snow yesterday, those hairs were making a big difference :D

I just read that some sirius MS were not so grippy.
Are there any colour that is more grippy and less stable?

Have you thrown a teebird and a tl?
teebird will break in and break in, and if given a clean release and enough hyzer will still fly straight. While a tl will slowly become useless.
I think the MOLF would be able to resist the turn as much if not more than a SOLS. As it breaks in the MOLF should still reist turn fairly well, but would get alittle longer while losing some fade. Generally I perfer the feel and the flight of middle grade plastics (that and they yield more potential for distance)
Other than distance the middle grade plastics tend to fly better on multi directional flights. For example I would rather hyzerflip a M plastic disc than a star/sirus plastic disc, because it consistantly and smoothly flips up. Star plastic having less air friction tends to have more abrupt changed during flight. Throw your fav star/champ driver against the pro counterpart. Does the Star drop out of the air sooner, faster and at a sharper angle? if you threw a hyzerflip does the disc slowly flip up, fly straight then gently fade, or even continue and slowly begin turning right? with MOLS I can consistantly get to flip up and slowly turn, while a SOLS will either flip up and flip over, or will flip up to straight and fade. the MOLF would probably flip up gently similar to the MOLS but fade predictably and gently.

I just read that some sirius MS were not so grippy.
Are there any colour that is more grippy and less stable?



I was there at the store when the box opened (dumb luck) and put my hands on several....yellow, white and orange (if my memory is good). All of them felt the same to me. They had about the same stiffness as the Sirius Omega. I carried mine back and forth to the office for the week and rubbed it down like a baseball. It flew (for me) very straight over the weekend. The high speed turn was a little more than my QMS and the low speed fade was a little less. I may not like the feel of the SMS in my hand, but I like the flight of the disc once it leaves.

Gonna toot my own horn here for just a minute. :D

I got my first tourney ace Saturday in Ice Bowl 2007 at Banklick Woods Park #22. Caught a bit of a tailwind. My SJLS slammed square into the pole. Rattled all the chains. Then fell quietly into the basket. It was sweeeeet.

Now gotta go to the store and get a replacment :D Both my kids telling me to put that disc on the wall. :D

10 day forecast says it is going to be Sunny on Saturday...

Time to Pre-register at http://www.discgolfclub.org

MPPP is this Saturday in Springfield, IL

Can you Putt? Win Cash...

Think Millenium makes the Best Putter... Come Prove It on DiscGolfTV.com

John, Can you tell us if, and when, 150g QOLF discs will be run and available again? I've been looking, but no luck. Thanks.

also--does millinium have any new discs in the works?

I can only guess about the 150g QOLFs. I can tell you that at Millennium HQ, we only got a handful of them, and only several months after the release of production stamp QOLFs.
It seems that almost all the 150g QOLFs went to Japan, and I don't know how many that was. I would imagine that the OLF would go back in the machine sometime this year. 150g SOLFs are easier to come by, and we have a good supply of those.

also--does millinium have any new discs in the works?



There are ideas, and there will be more releases this year. We're still filling out the plastic options--the last release was the Sirius Sentinel MF. Next will be the Millennium plastic Orion LF. Both are really great. The Millennium Orion LF (MOLF) was debuted this past weekend at Am World Doubles; those are the only ones out there so far.

Sirius Sentinel MF has been out for a few weeks now, anybody thrown one yet?

also--does millinium have any new discs in the works?



Here one for you 'Ol School Millinium fans....

What is a "Tacyon LF w/nosebead" ??

:p

I just read that some sirius MS were not so grippy.
Are there any colour that is more grippy and less stable?



I was there at the store when the box opened (dumb luck) and put my hands on several....yellow, white and orange (if my memory is good). All of them felt the same to me. They had about the same stiffness as the Sirius Omega. I carried mine back and forth to the office for the week and rubbed it down like a baseball. It flew (for me) very straight over the weekend. The high speed turn was a little more than my QMS and the low speed fade was a little less. I may not like the feel of the SMS in my hand, but I like the flight of the disc once it leaves.



Yellow, Orange, and White were the only colors for the first run. They all feel and fly about the same, we haven't noticed any anomolies. Like he said, they feel "right" after they've been rubbed in well. I have a Sirius Omega that is almost gummy now, and my favorite SMS's are the ones that are softened up like that. They have a really tight grip once you get your fingers in it. The more worn in and prepped like that, the less sharp the edge feels too. None of my MS's feel sharp or uncomfortable in the hand... it's just flashing in an uncomfortable spot, like a Shark.

The Millennium Orion LF (MOLF) was debuted this past weekend at Am World Doubles; those are the only ones out there so far.





:-D

i heard a rumor that there is a teebird-like disc in the works. narrower wing than the orions, more stable than a jls. any truth to that?

i heard a rumor that there is a teebird-like disc in the works. narrower wing than the orions, more stable than a jls. any truth to that?



We've been evaluating a disc that is a retool of the EXP-1, and those were a small test run in Sirius plastic. They're marked SEXP.

I'd call it the L-mold of the EXP, same top but straight slope on bottom, still very wind-resistant. The people who have tested it really like it, and a few Team Millennium players seem to be happy with it as the "teebird slot" disc. It hasn't been decided what we'll do with it. It's been considered as the Sirius EXP, and in theory, a JLF. Maybe a new name/disc entirely. I love this disc though, and it compliments the EXP-1. I'd like to see the SEXP released in some form, but I'd also like a classic EXP in Sirius, if not Quantum.

Long answer short, yes, we are working on filling the Teebird slot. It may be the SEXP, a further modification, or a different design.

also--does millinium have any new discs in the works?



Here one for you 'Ol School Millinium fans....

What is a "Tacyon LF w/nosebead" ??

:p



It is an prototype LF with a strange beefy nose, I have emailed you some pictures...

We've been evaluating a disc that is a retool of the EXP-1, and those were a small test run in Sirius plastic. They're marked SEXP.

I'd call it the L-mold of the EXP, same top but straight slope on bottom, still very wind-resistant.

in theory, a JLF

I'd also like a classic EXP in Sirius, if not Quantum.



I know a noodle-armed, master's age am who would happy to test these....hint....hint....HINT

I thought the original EXP-1 was a "BANSHEE L".

I like this name best. There is something to be said for consistency. And....What make this name even better will be that it will confuse even more people :D

I would like to see the EXP in Sirius, especially if the plastic is grippy like the Sirius plastic used for the SOLF and SOLS.

i would call it JLF. less confusing than exp-L, the sirius exp should be just that, a traditional exp in sirius plastic. then you would have a great line of conrol drivers: JLS, JLF, EXP. then, for longer throws, you would have the OLS, OLF, and the disc I think you should make next, the OLF-X [or something] thx for listening

i would call it JLF. less confusing than exp-L, the sirius exp should be just that, a traditional exp in sirius plastic. then you would have a great line of conrol drivers: JLS, JLF, EXP. then, for longer throws, you would have the OLS, OLF, and the disc I think you should make next, the OLF-X [or something] thx for listening



I agree with you on everything. It occupies the role of a JLF, and that's how I think of it in the bag. I think the Sirius EXP should be the original mold, and stiff... as much a reproduction of the 1.7s as possible. That would be an incredible disc.
Orion LX... now that's an idea /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

If you look at GGGT's flight chart for the Millennium drivers:

PLS 4.0 | -2.0 | 2.0 | 3.0
EXP1 4.0 | 1.0 | 4.0 | 4.0
JLS 4.5 | -2.0 | 2.5 | 3.0
??? 4.5 | 1.0 | 4.0 | 4.0 <== Your JLF
OLS 5.0 | -1.5 | 3.0 | 5.0
OLF 5.0 | -0.5 | 3.0 | 4.0
??? 5.0 | 0.0 | 4.0 | 5.0 <== Your OLX

You can't design by the numbers, but wouldn't it be nice if you could create discs that could fit these measurements while looking like Millennium discs.

If you look at GGGT's flight chart for the Millennium drivers:

PLS 4.0 | -2.0 | 2.0 | 3.0
EXP1 4.0 | 1.0 | 4.0 | 4.0
JLS 4.5 | -2.0 | 2.5 | 3.0
??? 4.5 | 1.0 | 4.0 | 4.0 <== Your JLF
OLS 5.0 | -1.5 | 3.0 | 5.0
OLF 5.0 | -0.5 | 3.0 | 4.0
??? 5.0 | 0.0 | 4.0 | 5.0 <== Your OLX

You can't design by the numbers, but wouldn't it be nice if you could create discs that could fit these measurements while looking like Millennium discs.



Those numbers are poor evaluations in my opinion. Maybe I'm not understanding the rating categories. The first number is for distance? If so, then I take it 5 is the longest. If so, then neither the OLS or OLF should be a 5, they are simply not on the top tier of distance drivers due to the narrower rim/slower speed.
The second number I'm pretty sure represents high speed turn. These numbers are way off as well. The EXP 1 should have a hss rating of 0 because it flies straight at high speeds. A new JLS is not that flippy (-2hss), and the OLS is more like a -1 than a -1.5.
If the third number represents low speed fade, then they are pretty accurate by my experience, however I would give the exp 1 a 4.5.
The last number really confuses me. I would think it would represent glide, but if so then the EXP 1 has more glide than the JLS?

If so, then neither the OLS or OLF should be a 5, they are simply not on the top tier of distance drivers due to the narrower rim/slower speed.



Not so. The OLF is as long as a Wraith and is consistently longer for me. I think you would see other posters agree.

I have spent much time comparing wraiths to OLF's in a field. different weights [same of each disc] and winds. while the OLF is most definately more consistant, the wraith is consistantly longer, although not by much. If I were to use only 1 main driver, the solf would be it. I throw dx teebirds for control, and dx wraiths for longer shots. [also OLS for unstable and z-pred for overstable]

If so, then neither the OLS or OLF should be a 5, they are simply not on the top tier of distance drivers due to the narrower rim/slower speed.



Not so. The OLF is as long as a Wraith and is consistently longer for me. I think you would see other posters agree.



I most definitely agree with Chuck. The SOLF and QOLF are both longer than the Wraith in any plastic for me. I'll even add the TeeRex to that list as well.

The difference may have to do with grip for some like myself who have shorter fingers. While I can still handle a Wraith, I suspect I get a slightly better grip on the OLF which makes it longer for me in similar weights. Those with longer fingers may get the max out of a Wraith that I'm unable to relative to the OLF.

Can agree with that also. I've got small hands and have found that with the wider rims I tend to throw more "slack wrist" throws where the "pop" just never seems to come. Another instance I've observed where small hands seem to make a difference is on really domey discs, like the new Kite. Doesn't bug me at all since my thumb and forefinger are closer, relatively, anyway. Folks with larger hands hold it and make the kind of face I do with wide rimmed discs. :cool:

If you look at GGGT's flight chart for the Millennium drivers:

PLS 4.0 | -2.0 | 2.0 | 3.0
EXP1 4.0 | 1.0 | 4.0 | 4.0
JLS 4.5 | -2.0 | 2.5 | 3.0
??? 4.5 | 1.0 | 4.0 | 4.0 &lt;== Your JLF
OLS 5.0 | -1.5 | 3.0 | 5.0
OLF 5.0 | -0.5 | 3.0 | 4.0
??? 5.0 | 0.0 | 4.0 | 5.0 &lt;== Your OLX

You can't design by the numbers, but wouldn't it be nice if you could create discs that could fit these measurements while looking like Millennium discs.



Those numbers are poor evaluations in my opinion. Maybe I'm not understanding the rating categories. The first number is for distance? If so, then I take it 5 is the longest. If so, then neither the OLS or OLF should be a 5, they are simply not on the top tier of distance drivers due to the narrower rim/slower speed.
The second number I'm pretty sure represents high speed turn. These numbers are way off as well. The EXP 1 should have a hss rating of 0 because it flies straight at high speeds. A new JLS is not that flippy (-2hss), and the OLS is more like a -1 than a -1.5.
If the third number represents low speed fade, then they are pretty accurate by my experience, however I would give the exp 1 a 4.5.
The last number really confuses me. I would think it would represent glide, but if so then the EXP 1 has more glide than the JLS?



My bad there. I should not have used someone else's number system without a proper explantion. The four numbers from GGGT or Joe's Univeral Flight Chart are RANGE | HSS | LSS | PWR. RANGE here is a relative distance. A RANGE of 5.0 SHOULD out-distance a 4.5 if both are thrown correctly. HSS and LSS are what you expect (high speed stability and low speed stability). PWR is the power required to throw the disc correctly.

I agree with Chuck's (and others) replies about the SOLF being solid in the distance department and I (like others) throw the SOLF because of the narrow rim configuration. For me, the SOLF out-distances most of long bombers because 1. I can't get my fingers around it (literally) and 2. I don't have the PWR to properly throw the bigger discs. I would also say there are those that think the SOLF is an inferior disc because they over-PWR the disc.

In my mind, a JLF should be (or could be) a long range stable to over-stable disc. As to my comment on the OLX. I think there is a group out there that could appreciate a stable to over-stable Orion that can take more power than the SOLF.

those of you saying the OLF is longer than the wraith, I bet your issues w/ the wraith isnt as grip related as much as not having the power to throw the wraith. I dont get as consistant of a release w/ the wraith (i perfer the narrower rims) but it is longer than the OLF. Yet the OLF is in my bag, and the wraith isnt.

The Millennium Orion LF (MOLF) was debuted this past weekend at Am World Doubles; those are the only ones out there so far.




Does anyone know if these are going to be available? Place? Time?

The Millennium Orion LF (MOLF) was debuted this past weekend at Am World Doubles; those are the only ones out there so far.



Does anyone know if these are going to be available? Place? Time?



Soon, but at least a month away. I haven't asked John what his plans are for the mainstream release. They haven't yet been stamped, as we haven't decided how large the first run release will be.

Speaking of first run stamps, you can expect new stamps on some discs. A few of the Sirius discs are still first run, but they will have a new production stamp, not the first run stamp. My guess would be that the SOLS will be the first to get an update. Every stamp from now on will have a run number.

I get the impresion that there is a team Millenium. Which players are sponsored by Millenium and how does one earn a spot on the team?

I get the impresion that there is a team Millenium. Which players are sponsored by Millenium and how does one earn a spot on the team?



We have a number of Team Millennium players in the US and Europe, mostly pros who play national and regional tournaments, and a few regional ams. Our sponsored players became Team members because they prefer Millennium and represent, play, and promote the sport well. There will be a Team page on our website (http://www.golfdisc.com), which I will completely overhaul in the near future.

I tried to type up a list off the top of my head, but I think it's best that I email John and ask him. I can tell you a few of our top pros are Mike Olse from Austin, Lesli Demark from NJ, Timo Pursio from Europe, Shannon Fosdick from Austin, and Patty Justice from Austin.

Thanks!

I love the new Aurora, and am a big fan of the old omegas. I really want to get some more of this plastic and see if I can't impress anybody at the Millenium headquarters. Hope to see you guys around!

Dion

The Millennium Orion LF (MOLF) was debuted this past weekend at Am World Doubles; those are the only ones out there so far.



Does anyone know if these are going to be available? Place? Time?



Soon, but at least a month away. I haven't asked John what his plans are for the mainstream release. They haven't yet been stamped, as we haven't decided how large the first run release will be.

Speaking of first run stamps, you can expect new stamps on some discs. A few of the Sirius discs are still first run, but they will have a new production stamp, not the first run stamp. My guess would be that the SOLS will be the first to get an update. Every stamp from now on will have a run number.



How is Millenium coping with Innova's inability to acquire the plastic that Millenium discs are made of? Is the MOLF destined to be a one-run disc? hmmmmm.

How is Millenium coping with Innova's inability to acquire the plastic that Millenium discs are made of? Is the MOLF destined to be a one-run disc? hmmmmm.



That's a great question for Dave D. I haven't heard anything from John about that, nor do I know exactly how large the MOLF run was. I would guess that when and if Innova finds a suitable Pro driver plastic, that will be the new Millennium standard plastic. Innova/Millennium plastic varies between runs, so it wouldn't be strange that the 1.1 run and 1.2 are different plastics. Innova usually runs enough of a particular Millennium disc to last a good while, as our molds have to fit into their busy schedule. MOLFs shouldn't be scarce, and hopefully an alternative will be found before the 1.1's are gone.

Rest assured, Dave D. posted that Millenium will have first dibs on the pro plastic that is remaining. Its funny, I've really taken that plastic for granted. It really does glide more than any other I've tried. When its gone I wonder if it will be romanticized like CE....

I agree about Innova's Pro plastic. I own wraiths in all plastics and none behave (i.e. fly as far) quite like the Pro Wraith. It was also pretty durable and as the disc would age I would grow to love its subtle and long turning phase. Along with the DX or KC rocs, the Pro Wraiths work well in different levels of "beatness" and I see the plastic might be romanticized like KC plastic, but since it isn't quite durable like CE i don't think it can become as collectible or as valuable.

John,
Was SMS meant to be so stiff? Why not make it in the Sirius Driver plastic?
Also, I have noticed that Drivers in yellow color are so much grippier then any other color? Is there a reason why? Does this apply to all models?

Thank you for being there for us. Millennium's the best!

Yuri
PS: Please update you web-page though :-)

John,

Talked with LeBleu last night and wanted to say congrats and welcome to the land of the married! You and D will have a great life together.

Ray

Congratulations to John and Dee !!!
I took this picture today at "World's Biggest Disc Golf Wedding Party"

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/albertlirette/IMG_0230.jpg

those of you saying the OLF is longer than the wraith, I bet your issues w/ the wraith isnt as grip related as much as not having the power to throw the wraith. I dont get as consistant of a release w/ the wraith (i perfer the narrower rims) but it is longer than the OLF. Yet the OLF is in my bag, and the wraith isnt.



I'm not sure how acurate this is. I lift on a regular basis and hate the wraith for the same reasons that Chuck and rat don't use it. I have short fingers and I can't get a comfortable grip on it.

The longer I play, the more I'm convinced that the idea of power per say is misguided. I've seen some very strong throwers and some very weak throwers use these "high powered" discs and get great results. The reason is that disc flight characteristics are stongly impacted by technique, snap vs. arm pull. I can take a disc and make it fly everywhere from overstable to understable by varying snap and pull. The formula is more snap, more distance and more stable characteristics. It isn't that simple though. Regardless, judging a disc by the power it takes to throw it may be a mistake.

BTW - I get the same results from the LF as a Wraith with more accuracy due to a cleaner grip. The LS flies further for me. This is primarily due to the perfect match of that disc with my throwing characteristcs, i.e. the disc fits my mechanics.

Responding to a month old post...You must be bored, or else you just really want to talk about your favorite driver! Anyways, I totally agree with what you are saying. Disc golf form and function is SO far away from any type of standard that it is no wonder people get far different results when throwing the same disc. For me, discs with long wings tend to want to rip out of my hand early. I had problems with the Wraith, Max, and Teerex with respect to this. If I was feeling strong in my grip I could throw them successfully. The problem is if I get a little fatigued in the grip or my hands are sweaty or otherwise wet I lose control of my release with these discs. Even when I was throwing the Wraith and Teerex I would have days where neither were coming out smooth. I would often end up reaching back further to try and compensate and then I would turn them over or have grip lock.

I throw the Rogue and Surge now and I never have problems and my driving is 100% better and more consistent. These discs really feel right in my hand. I had to win them to try them and ever since I've never looked back. I'm not sure if the Surge/Rogue are potentially as long or fast as the Wraith, because for me it does not matter. I throw the Surge/Rogue better. I know how they turn and come back and I almost always get the line I'm looking for. Different strokes for different folks!

I've been thinking a lot about the Orions lately and that made me come reread this thread. They are my favorite drivers replacing the Valk and Viking.

BTW - the Surge's wing is almost as big as the Wraith's. I don't know about the Rogue.

Disc golf form and function is SO far away from any type of standard that it is no wonder people get far different results when throwing the same disc. For me, discs with long wings tend to want to rip out of my hand early.


I understand that. The Orions just work better in my hand. My biggest problem is ME :D

Change topic. I was helping with the Disc 'n Dat Bluegrass Open Over the weekend. I saw a Millennium bar stamped disc with the letters LFX. I don't think it was new. I assumed the LF meant the Polaris LF. The X would mean there was a second bottom. Can anyone fill in the gaps here?

Wow....

That's all I can say.

Wow....

I was throwing off the Tee of #12 at Westminster City Park in Westminster, CO. A huge wind blew up. I didn't have an truly "overstable" disc in my bag. The weather man had said on "light" winds. He was WRONG.

Anyway, my only choice was my 160gm SOLF. I had thrown it some but not much.

The Tee on 12 has an immediate drop of about 50 ft. Trying to keep the nose down I threw as hard as I could. Unfortunately, I threw almost straight down. My disc SLAMMED into thin metal rod and shot to the left. Everyone in my group winced. I wasn't killed on my lie, but surely the disc was dead.....

NO...Not only was the disc alive, it had nary a scratch. We were all shocked. I am now won over. Sirius plastic is AMAZING.

Tomorrow, I go to buy a SOLS.

Keep up the good work.

pastor keith

I agree that the wraith is longer than a solf. I can consistantly throw the wraith 20-30' longer than the solf, yet the wraith is 20-30' further off line. For me the solf is far more controlable. If I want max max open field 1 in 100 golf shot max D, i throw a OLS just as far as a wraith ;-).

and PK, Sirius plastic is nothing special, less durable than Champ or Z, very similiar (actually so similar its the same) as star. However the SOLF is special.

Honestly, I'm not thrilled with either Sirus or Star plastic. That said, the Sirus Orion LS is by far the disc that best fits my throwing style in neutral wind conditions; it straightens out a little better, and runs a little longer than the QOLF, or Champ Valk, the disc I used to use in neutral wind conditions (The QOLF is on the more stable side of the LS and the Champ Valk is on the other).

I agree that Sirus does not tend to taco, but the benefits from the grippier plastic are minor for me and the plastic takes a beating on concrete, asphault or any of the other surfaces that I hit all too frequently.

I've asked one Millenium guy if they looked at a Q version of the OLS and basically he said you get something like a Sidewinder, a very different disc than the Sirus OLS.

I do understand that for many the Wraith may be a longer disc, but I suspect that for more technical throwers (less power, more snap) the Orions may be better discs.

Question for you Millenium guys. What is Millenium's understable disc? What is their roller disc? Just curious, or maybe interested...

Question for you Millenium guys. What is Millenium's understable disc? What is their roller disc? Just curious, or maybe interested...



Beat up Orion LS or beat up JLS. Or perhaps an LS, but I never really got a lot of experience with those.

From what I hear of the long-gone handful of QOLS protos, there wasn't the Sidewinder problem you mention. Hopefully there will be QOLS in all of our futures. Just wishing, not announcing.

As for rollers, a beat-in standard Orion LS is a great roller. QJLS and SJLS are great rollers (especially 1.1 QJs). SOLS is a great forehand roller too. The understable fairway driver is a worn standard JLS (1.11 is the money run for turnovers), then QJ and SJ from least to most fade. Understable long-range is a standard OLS or a SOLS (I carry 175g for straight and 164g for flips and turnovers).

That's interesting,

I'd have never called the JLS an understable disc, or for that matter the OLS. With some wind I can turn the OLS over and it definetly is not an in-to-the wind disc, but still, it's not a left to right disc without wind... at least for me. You'd have to beat an OLS pretty good to get your roller IMO.

JLS are at least as stable at the OLF in my hands. Not a good ito the wind disc but definitly not understable. Currently, I roll an X express. Even the Z isn't understable enough.

The JLS isn't naturally that understable, but if you put anhyzer on it, it will hold it, or if you overpower it, it will roll over understable. A standard JLS takes a little time to wear in, but they're definitely the money for controlled annies. A worn QJ will give you the same type of sauce.

Now as for the OLS, a beat-in (weeks to months, YMMV) standard OLS is an awesome roller, and either of the OLS models can be your anny disc. I can even get my max-weight SOLS to hold an anny without fading out. Great thing is, I can also get it to fade out. Seems to me like (with the right throw) a Sidewinder with more controllable fade... you can either power it to hold all the way, or fade at the end.

The JLS isn't naturally that understable, but if you put anhyzer on it, it will hold it, or if you overpower it, it will roll over understable. A standard JLS takes a little time to wear in, but they're definitely the money for controlled annies. A worn QJ will give you the same type of sauce.

Now as for the OLS, a beat-in (weeks to months, YMMV) standard OLS is an awesome roller, and either of the OLS models can be your anny disc. I can even get my max-weight SOLS to hold an anny without fading out. Great thing is, I can also get it to fade out. Seems to me like (with the right throw) a Sidewinder with more controllable fade... you can either power it to hold all the way, or fade at the end.




Wow, that is exactly what I tell people about the SOLS--a more controllable Sidewinder. Its lateral movement in the air is slower, more deliberate, and shows less variance throw to throw than the Sidewinder. When I was throwing them I had an SOLS that was quite beat and it would go left to right 400' less than 10' off the ground. One thing about the SOLS that I found though is that even when they are beat they still want to fade at the end of the flight.

I got my hands on an Omega SS v1.22 last week. It's not the same as my older SSs and I like it. To me it's grippier, may a little bit firmer and maybe a little bit more stable. Not really sure (yet) about the stability.

A very nice addition to my bag.

hey John, i collect omega supersoft putters . i have alnost every run, but i still need a few. do you know where i can find any?

hey john, where can i find older omega supersoft putters? im trying to collect them all. im doing pretty good but theres still a few runs i cant find. do you know anybody that might help me?

which ones are you looking for?

email david@gdstour.com with your omega wish list!

i have a couple of omega supersoft putters with 2001 pro worlds disc golf championships,team minnesota, twin cities minnesota,august 5-12, 2001 hot stamp on the front. do you know what run they would be?

i have a couple of omega supersoft putters with 2001 pro worlds disc golf championships,team minnesota, twin cities minnesota,august 5-12, 2001 hot stamp on the front. do you know what run they would be?



There's probably no telling, unless you were to compare them by hand with production-stamp Omegas from that era. It would be hard to figure out which runs were available or made around 2001, much less which run the tourny blanks came from.

About once a week I go out and practice my drives to work on technique and possible modifications.

Typically, I average 370 to 380 on my drives and hit in about 390 when everything is clicking. My longest throw is about 410 feet.

This week I was out with a handful of LS Orions in Sirus plastic and I was getting some good throws when one of them popped out a good 20 or 30 feet past the rest. I figured it was going to be just over 400 feet. When I measured it turned out I was hitting most of my throws in at 390 and my long throw was just under 440 feet.

Thinking, "well that was a fluke" I turned around and threw back the other way. Again most of my throws were in at 390 with one out-lier at 420 feet.

Now, I am hardly one to buy into the this disc is so much better than all other discs garbage that often goes on here but in terms of how I throw, this disc is perfect. I have shorter fingers, and good but not great power and snap. Finally I use a reach back throw.

I've thrown Valks and Beasts in the past and this is a better disc overall for me. If the Valk is a little too under-stable for you, and the Beast is a little too over-stable, this disc will be good for you.

The SOLS is the best thing Millenium has going right now. I have one that is broken in and it goes forever. I would throw pretty hard and release it with a decent amount of hyzer and it would travel in a straight line as it slowly flipped up, over, and eventually came back. I know that I got it out to 500' a couple of times downwind. I throw the Rogue now instead because it is faster with similar flight characteristics. It does have a larger rim. My fiance throws a 164g SOLS and it goes 20' than anything else she throws in a straighter line. She throws it 280' (she's 5'1"). I think that one of the reasons it flies so far it that it has very little lateral motion in its flight path. It is a great distance driver.

Anyone know where I can get a MOLF??? Supposed to be released today???? Anyone??? I'm Jonesin here!

I've seen a lot of MILFs today... :eek:

Anyone know where I can get a MOLF??? Supposed to be released today???? Anyone??? I'm Jonesin here!



I've got 3 of them and they are sweet!
Just call Philip at the warehouse if you can't find retailing locally...830-833-1227

Anyone know where I can get a MOLF??? Supposed to be released today???? Anyone??? I'm Jonesin here!




Disc 'n Dat (http://www.discndatonline.com/) got a shipment Thursday. Kind of a milky off white in 160s. The orange and yellow in the 170s.

Hi John,

What are the chances of getting a Q or S version of the EXP or an Orion-X?

What are the chances of getting a Q or S version of the EXP or an Orion-X?


If you can, get a 1.7 EXP. There is a BIG difference between the 1.7 and the other EXPs.
How would you mold a OLX?

Arent they just Banshees? If you cant find the 1.7, you could just use those. Thats why I throw them, couldnt find enough 1.7 hybrids!

EXP and Banshee are not the same mold. EXP has a slightly lower-profile wing.

Hi John,

What are the chances of getting a Q or S version of the EXP or an Orion-X?



Agreed, its time that millenium revamped their catalogue with an overstable disc. The EXPs I have are a bit too floppy and unrealiable for me. I would love a stiff EXP in that sweet sirius plastic. Also, what is your guy's policy on sponsorship for tournaments? I will be running one in the spring and I've been meaning to ask around about custom disc orders.

Thanks,
Whip

EXP and Banshee are not the same mold. EXP has a slightly lower-profile wing.



EXP equals a Banshee L, but there is a difference between the different runs, a guide:
http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc.aspx?DiscId=2093

EXP and Banshee are not the same mold. EXP has a slightly lower-profile wing.



Yeah, but they fly the same. The tweaks dont make that much of a difference, especially on overhands. EXP is probably a little better, but only the 1.7 version. IMO.

Hi John,

What are the chances of getting a Q or S version of the EXP or an Orion-X?



Agreed, its time that millenium revamped their catalogue with an overstable disc. The EXPs I have are a bit too floppy and unrealiable for me. I would love a stiff EXP in that sweet sirius plastic. Also, what is your guy's policy on sponsorship for tournaments? I will be running one in the spring and I've been meaning to ask around about custom disc orders.

Thanks,
Whip



hmmm...is it time for a Sirius Tachyon LF??

anyone know when they will run the qof again and if they will be doing 150's? they seem to have a nicer dome to them vs. the sof

where can I go (besides e-bay) to purchase first run QJLS from. The solid colored ones from 2000-01.

check out number 6 from this site, is that a first run?

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&amp;rs=3...nium&amp;page=1 (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&amp;rs=3406041&amp;field-brandtextbin=Millennium&amp;rh=n%3A3406041%2Cp_4%3AMil lennium&amp;page=1)

I'd like to see an over-stable Millennium Disc also... in hard plastic. I've not used the EXP1 in years but if I did, I'd want it in Q. Just wishing away.

where can I go (besides e-bay) to purchase first run QJLS from. The solid colored ones from 2000-01. check out number 6 from this site, is that a first run?



The disc in the photo is a first run. That's probably not the disc you'd get... it's just an old photo. Several of the discs pictured on that page are old collectible runs, not runs currently in stock (those look like discnation.com results).
I love 1.1 QJs and the best sources I've found are trading with individuals and buying on ebay. If an online store has them, they're expensive.

Thanks Zach, I was thinking the same thing about avalability but i thought I'd ask. They are SO my favorite disc.

where can I go (besides e-bay) to purchase first run QJLS from. The solid colored ones from 2000-01. check out number 6 from this site, is that a first run?



The disc in the photo is a first run. That's probably not the disc you'd get... it's just an old photo. Several of the discs pictured on that page are old collectible runs, not runs currently in stock (those look like discnation.com results).
I love 1.1 QJs and the best sources I've found are trading with individuals and buying on ebay. If an online store has them, they're expensive.



How do you tell a 1.1 QJ from other runs?

anyone know when they will run the qof again and if they will be doing 150's? they seem to have a nicer dome to them vs. the sof


On the topic of 150's. Earlier this year, a batch of 150 SOLF came out with the World's Biggest Stamp. I think they were marked SOX? Was that batch of 150's all white and did they all get the World's Biggest Stamp?

I like my 150s a lot, but winter is coming. White and snow mix.

On the topic of 150's. Earlier this year, a batch of 150 SOLF came out with the World's Biggest Stamp. I think they were marked SOX? Was that batch of 150's all white and did they all get the World's Biggest Stamp?



All SOLFs right now are first run. Any 150g SOLF with that stamp are from the same batch as stock-stamp 150g SOLF. They've never been marked SOX, it's probably SOF written quickly. As far as I know, all the 150g SOLF are white. ... till you dye them :)

How do you tell a 1.1 QJ from other runs?



You can best tell from the opaque plastic. The stamping isn't as reliable a way to tell. If it's got two foil colors (one for lettering, one for background), it's 1.1 . But you'll also find 1.1s that have a single foil stamp, and 1.2s that have the same single foil stamp. Later runs (including some 1.2s) have only the QJLS lettering without the dots background.

ZAMson, I saw your photo of the "ultra super wide rimmed" driver on the Discgolfreview forum. Is it an real disc or just a manipulated photo?

Unfortunately, this is a photoshopped Epic. Wait, no.. it's an Orion X! Just kidding. It's fake :)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4305/bigrimnb8.jpg

Thats pretty funny, but doesn't the Epic have it's rim off-center?

http://www.isarapix.com/pix98/1193760483.jpg

Also, I support EXPs in tougher plastics and the Orion X in any plastic :)

I'd like to see an over-stable Millennium Disc also... in hard plastic. I've not used the EXP1 in years but if I did, I'd want it in Q. Just wishing away.



Tachyon 4.1 ;)

a FAST overstable disc and they would have it. orion s, orion f, and orion x.

I've got a putter that I think is either a 2001 CE Aviar or a Q Omega...its totally opaque champ plastic, dayglow yellow, San Marino mold, beadless, with only the weight written on the bottom. It has an Innova x-out stamp with no other stamp. I can tell by the feel that its definitely not your run of hte mill champion plastic...stiff but very grippy. Anything there that might be a clue as to its identity?

Its probably a Qmega as there were a heck of a lot more of them produced than CE Aviars. They are hard to tell apart without comparing side to side as both have a micro-bead. The shapes of the noses are slightly different as well but I don't remember how so because it has been awhile since I compared the two side to side.

the ce aviars were no beads and the qmegas are small beads

Is there any chance that lighter then 170 gr. SOLF and SOLS will be made in yellow plast?

And does anybody has yellow 175 Qmega in older, gummy plastic, without those sharp rim edges?

Thanks

john, i collect omega supersoft putters .i have 77 total including every run from 1.1 to 1.23. i even have some pre-omegas with the chains aviar stamp. what can you tell me about the history of omega and millennium like what year you started making the omega or anything i would like to know about them or something i need in my collection,etc,etc,etc?

Hi,

Sentinel or MF Sentinel, whats the different ?

You can best tell from the opaque plastic. The stamping isn't as reliable a way to tell. If it's got two foil colors (one for lettering, one for background), it's 1.1 ...
I have a few QJLSs that match that description. Does the misprint "PDGA appoved" (sic) help identify runs of the QJLS as well? My QJLSs and QMSs all have that misprint.

nanook

I have a few QJLSs that match that description. Does the misprint "PDGA appoved" (sic) help identify runs of the QJLS as well? My QJLSs and QMSs all have that misprint.

nanook


YES, 'appoved' is the true first runs. Also the 1.2 run started in the 'clear' or see thru champion plastic. The opaque were the test run of 2000 and the 1.1. These had the CE PLASTIC in them.

I thought that was the case. I've been throwing those 'appoved' QJLSs and QMSs for years and you just can't kill them. VERY durable and reliable.

YES, 'appoved' is the true first runs. Also the 1.2 run started in the 'clear' or see thru champion plastic. The opaque were the test run of 2000 and the 1.1. These had the CE PLASTIC in them.


1.2s had late clear CE plastic in them as well (same as pro firebirds & teebirds) because they flew VERY different from the subsequent clear runs.