SO......
There are pitch and putt courses everywhere in north america. What is the smallest course where you live?

Contestant number one : Tommy and Sue Brown Park , North Richland Hills, Texas
9 holes totaling a whopping 1200 feet in length.

Heck..even Rowlett is probably close to 3,000 ft and it is a short 9 hole..

Tommy and Sue Brown Park is one I haven't hit in our metroplex yet Lee...is it even worth shooting??

Moir Park with saucer cones. But due to the putting challenge, I wouldn't call it totally "wimpy."

www.pdga.com/course/courses_by_city.php?id=471 (http://www.pdga.com/course/courses_by_city.php?id=471)

Fewell Park just down the road from one of the longest courses, Winthrop Gold. Haven't played it yet so not sure of "wimpy" factor.

www.pdga.com/course/courses_by_city.php?id=755 (http://www.pdga.com/course/courses_by_city.php?id=755)

Ethel Lee Tracy Park, Victoria, Texas... 9 hole 2200 feet.

Lake Murray (http://www.pdga.com/course/courses_by_city.php?id=678) The distance is not listed, but out of 9 holes, only 2 are longer than 100ft, the rest are as short at 50ft to 80ft. All you need is a putter to play. I would estimate it at about 800 to 900ft total distance.

BTW, it is a cone basket course..

The next shortest course I have ever played is The Fin and Fir? Lodge on lake Tinkeller?? 9 holes I played with a classic roc and putter. Dome baskets that were lighted at one point. It is no longer listed in the course directory, so it might not be there anymore.

Fin and Feather.

I am pretty sure the course is still in the ground as there is someone on the TDSA page that aced out there this year

How about the Eagle Ranch course in West Fort Worth? map shows 7 holes at 1800+

Eagle Ranch has a lot of potential! If they could ever figure out their zoning issues, then they could complete the course. The first hole from the short is around 456 feet, long tee puts it closer to 500. The sign calls it a par 4, I say long par three.
Adam, please do not waste your time with tommy and sue brown park. The only nice thing about this place is that they used brand new discatcher baskets.

wells Branch Smitty's favorite course :D

Tourist Park in Cedar Falls, IA. 18 holes - 3455'. Est. 1976.

I dont know if this qualifies, since the installers called it "FRISBEE" golf, but its no more than 1200 feet long for nine holes and is best played with a whamo of your choice, preferably with a large group of newbies or family members who dont know or care about the rules! :D no baskets just posts.
http://www.provodiscgolf.com/Rulesfor%20riverviewparkedit%2Dsmall.jpg

Riverview Park in Provo, Utah.

Tom and Sue Brown is only a 6 hole course. I play it every once in a while because I go to school in hurst. If you can throw a disc sidearm and backhand about a 150 feet you will shoot really well. It is a fun little course though. You can play in bare feet if you want. The grass is SO nice. My best score for 18 holes is -16. Its a fun one if you are out that way, but dont drive very long to play it. Not worth it.



I played those 18 holes in 30 min.

At the Grange (http://www.sharkysshots.com/albums/Sharks_shots/grange/05grange0002.jpg) in Spotylsvania (http://www.sharkysshots.com/albums/userpics/10002/vaopen2006m0004.JPG) County Virginia (http://www.sharkysshots.com/albums/userpics/10002/vaopen2006m0012.JPG) in addition to two excellent 18 hole courses there is an 18 hole Tiki (http://www.sharkysshots.com/albums/userpics/10002/grange1001050012.jpg) Course. (http://www.sharkysshots.com/albums/userpics/10002/grange1001050016.jpg) It even is lit for play (http://www.sharkysshots.com/albums/userpics/10002/vaopen20060042.JPG) anytime.

These courses are often great courses for Green level players. They're especially good for introducing Juniors to the game. I wish there was a good one in my area.

<font color="red">Courses should be evaluated based on how good they are for the player level (Gold, Blue, White, Red, Green) that they are designed for! A course may be excellent for one player level but not good at all for a different player level (either much higher or much lower). A Green level course could be much better than a Gold level course if the Green course is very good for Green level players and the Gold course is mediocre for Gold players.</font>

A private course in Black Mountain NC is only 993 ft. for 9 holes, but it's a fantastic Green level course with lots of elevation changes. It was challenging for my son who is a beginner.

They're not a challenge for adult males, but great for kids and for women brand new to the sport.

I say we drop the "wimpy" designation in favor of "Green"

Cloverdale, CA KOA has 6 holes - Tri-State baskets. The 6 holes are easily under 700 feet total. The difficulty lies in the ultra-high "turf" that covers the course.

The Days Inn in Lompoc, CA has a shortie also. 9 holes probably about 1,200 ft.

Sarasota Boys 'n' Girls Club (http://www.etherbinge.com/boys_n_girls.htm)

6 holes - 797 ft


Tom and Sue Brown is only a 6 hole course. I play it every once in a while because I go to school in hurst. If you can throw a disc sidearm and backhand about a 150 feet you will shoot really well. It is a fun little course though. You can play in bare feet if you want. The grass is SO nice. My best score for 18 holes is -16


you mean +2? ;)

These courses are often great courses for Green level players. They're especially good for introducing Juniors to the game. I wish there was a good one in my area.

<font color="red">Courses should be evaluated based on how good they are for the player level (Gold, Blue, White, Red, Green) that they are designed for! A course may be excellent for one player level but not good at all for a different player level (either much higher or much lower). A Green level course could be much better than a Gold level course if the Green course is very good for Green level players and the Gold course is mediocre for Gold players.</font>

A private course in Black Mountain NC is only 993 ft. for 9 holes, but it's a fantastic Green level course with lots of elevation changes. It was challenging for my son who is a beginner.

They're not a challenge for adult males, but great for kids and for women brand new to the sport.

I say we drop the "wimpy" designation in favor of "Green"



Good point, but what level of play would you like your Jr disc golfer to grow to? Better courses yeild better disc golfers. Look @ states like Texas and North Carolina, great courses, great golfers!

Yes but if every course was Gold level it would drive most of the casual and recreational population away. People would be like this game is way too hard, screw that. Easy simple course are needed to draw people into the game. After a while, they will begin wanting a new challenge, which is where gold level courses are needed.

Yes but if every course was Gold level it would drive most of the casual and recreational population away. People would be like this game is way too hard, screw that. Easy simple course are needed to draw people into the game. After a while, they will begin wanting a new challenge, which is where gold level courses are needed.



Hear, hear! Here in San Diego we historically had one place to play - Morley Field. Morley is great, but it's a tough hike for young kids, and it's mostly young-adult crowd (read: much beer-drinking, swearing) is not where most people would bring their 8-yr-old to learn the game or play a casual family round. Our next three courses (Mission Trails, Emerald Isle, Sunset) were all ball-golf hybrids - far too long to take your girlfriend who is just learning.

I'm working with the Parks and Rec folks in my town to build "wimpy" courses. We have 2 short 6-hole courses on the plans. I want a place where I can take my third grade daughter and her friends, so I can teach them how to play. Once the City sees how these courses work out we could get more (it helps that I'm the chairman of the Parks and Rec Commission).

Wimpy courses have their (important) place.

People would be like this game is way too hard, screw that.



The American mentality summed up in one simple sentance. Sometimes I really hate people. Where would the world be if there were not individuals whom chose to step up to a challange. I guess we would all be dragging our women around by their hair, hunting with sticks and rocks.

Interesting view...

Disc Golf is not about work ethic or stepping up to the challenge at the recreational level. It's about fun.

I agree, my qualm is with those whom interpret disc golf as easy.

Hear, hear! ...I'm working with the Parks and Rec folks in my town to build <font color="green">Green Level </font> courses. We have 2 short 6-hole courses on the plans. I want a place where I can take my third grade daughter and her friends, so I can teach them how to play. Once the City sees how these courses work out we could get more (it helps that I'm the chairman of the Parks and Rec Commission).

<font color="green">Green Level </font> courses have their (important) place.



Great plan! May I suggest, though, that you build 9 hole courses. 6 hole courses will get almost no use and in the long run aren't worth the effort to install. Even beginners want to play a standard round. May I also suggest that an ideal would be to put in 2 sets of tees? The second set could be an even easier Purple level or a more challenging Red level. That would attract a much larger crowd to make the investment worth it.

i play in Cedar Hill Tx. The course was put in by the city and the TD used course layouts from courses up north I would not say the 2 courses are wimpy but most the courses I have seen up north are nice tight courses using accuracy shots not throw your arm out of the socket long shots. I did say Tx, as most folks know we do have some long courses and I would almost bet you will need all the shots in your bag, but at the same time it does not discourage the beginner but also challenges the pro. I have had days where I shoot under and then days I shoot way over due to the short wimpy holes.I would have to say I would rather play a short distance accuracy course then I would a long open course that would not allow me to hit at least 5 obstacles on the way to hole. :cool:The front 18 is a little over 5000 ft and the back 18 just under 5000 ft and there are short and long pin positions but only 1 teepad per hole. (just my opinion)

9-hole courses would be my preference, but the space available doesn't lend itself well to more holes, unless they were to be 50-footers with no obstacles. I agree it is important to provide some link to the more familiar sport (ball golf), but not if it means sacrificing good design. Multiple tees are a must - good point there. Good signage is also important. I have played many courses that were far too difficult to navigate, even by someone who has played for 25+ years.

I think that Bi-centennial park in Crowley Texas is a good example of what you could do. Yes, the design is lacking essential elements of a good course design, but all levels of players have to opportunity to go out there and have fun. Blue tees, super short, course record for the blues is -18 ( Nolan Grider, one par, one ace, the rest birdies ) The white tee's- good intermediate format, I can easily shoot -8 to -10 on a good day.
Red tees- Advanced format, extra distance for extra challenge.
Gold tee's- potential champion caliber format.
All this place needs are tee pads and a revised course design.
One location provides the needs for all skill levels of disc golfers.

All this place needs are tee pads and a revised course design.




Including swapping the Red and Blue tee colors.

All this place needs are tee pads and a revised course design.




Including swapping the Red and Blue tee colors.



My thought too. It's much better to stick with the standard tee colors sequence (from higher to lower SSA): Gold, Blue, White, Red, Green

I don't see why it is so important to designate the tee colors as you say. As long as they are marked on the course sign, scorecards, or other information outlets, any player can see which level they should choose. Standardization is OK if you want to compare the course to other courses, but the color of which tee box you play from won't change or hinder your skill level. I have been noticing all of the Ball Golf courses everywhere I go (hoping to get some insight on course design), and I have noticed that a lot of them don't use the same sequence on their tee box colors. And yet, they all have players still lining up to use the facilities. As long as they are well marked it doesn't matter what color you call them.

Ball golf doesn't have guidelines for player skill level that matches the tee colors either. We do. So, in the interest to improve on ball golf, there's an advantage to our players and the sport to try and upgrade our courses when possible to gain that consistency of tee colors matched to player skill level. Of course, if designers don't actually design the holes from a set of tees for a specific player skill level, then it's probably better that the tee colors be something like black or orange so players know the course isn't designed in a particular way (which is still the case for most courses at the moment since the color guidelines are only several years old).

How about this one: http://www.pdga.com/course/courses_by_city.php?id=1640
It is set in the back yard of the municipal building, 18 tees, 9 baskets crammed into a space that's less than 1 1/2 football fields long and less than 1 wide, no tress, the only thing to interfere with your putter is the tee signs.

Ball golf doesn't have guidelines for player skill level that matches the tee colors either. We do. So, in the interest to improve on ball golf, there's an advantage to our players and the sport to try and upgrade our courses when possible to gain that consistency of tee colors matched to player skill level. Of course, if designers don't actually design the holes from a set of tees for a specific player skill level, then it's probably better that the tee colors be something like black or orange so players know the course isn't designed in a particular way (which is still the case for most courses at the moment since the color guidelines are only several years old).



I strongly agree with Chuck on this. I've spent a lot of time bending Reese's ear about not having short enough tee options on Fly-18 courses. His take is that recreational/intermediate players routinely go to the longest tee no matter what and then complain that the course is too long/hard. I've argued that it is our responsibility as designers/players/stewards to educate players (both new and old) on the color standards and encourage them to play from the appropriate tee boxes. That is much easier to do if those standards actually exist.

As you all know, I'm in favor of emulating all that is great about ball golf and chucking the rest. I do think the lack of a standard color system for golf tees is one of those things to chuck. One advantage that ball golf has for it's players is that they can choose a set of tees based on total distance and/or slope factor and stand a good chance that they will pick a good fit for their games.

In disc golf, with our greater variety of total par, # of holes, and tightness of fairways, the total distance of the course may be deceptive. For instance, the 7,000+ ft. white tees on the Red Hawk would normally be considered a "long" course, but the intermediate players in the RHA averaged about 1 stroke over par for a great "fit".

I find that rec players playing the long tee is somewhat true.

At Cedar Hills in Raleigh, there are shorter tees on 8 of the holes. Most of the rec golfers play the longs except for the shot over the water.

However, at the Meadow in Greenville NC, I see mainly all the rec golfers playing the shorts (there are shorts on every hole).

Just an interesting point....

The question is more about the design rather than the length.

Is the short tee just a shorter version of the same hole, or a different length appropriate shot ?

Designing interesting and challenging short tees is a fairly difficult task.

There are two schools of thought on courses with another set of shorter tees. The ball golf version is to essentially place the shorter tees on the same line as the longer ones. The idea is that the hole will roughly play the same as from the long tee. The other option which I'm more prone to do is place the shorter tees off the long tee line in a spot interesting in its own right. This way the course will be an interesting change of pace for those who normally play the long tees. The problem with this second approach is that it's less feasible on courses with many trees. It usually means cutting more trees to get an alternative line to the hole.

Dual tees can be particularly tough to do well on certain wooded holes such as sharp turn doglegs. For example, let's say a hole is 250 feet to a 90 degree dogleg to the right that extends another 265 feet to the pin. This hole will work for gold or blue level players. However, if you try to place a green tee with a 150 ft shot to the turn, the 265 ft second part of the dogleg is a little too long for green level. The best solution, although not ideal, is to not have a dogleg for the green players and place the green tee in the second leg of the hole to make a 1-shot hole less than 240 or so.

i just want to say if anyone wants to play my 752ft course when they're in miami,fl,they are welcome.known as"the southern most"the course uses 9 tee pads at six baskets.the course has three configurations.429ft,486ft and 752ft.records are kept for low score,aces in a row and aces in a game.every so often we have fire hazzard night when we light the fire pits around basket #2.home # 305-232-0508/beep# 305-368-disc miami,fl. p.s.bring more than 1 putter for fire hazzard night :eek:

I think Nims Park in Rock Falls, IL is one of the shortest 18 hole courses in the world! It has baskets and Tee pads and is only 2482' !! I shot -8 with a mini :) As far as 9 hole coures go, tough to beat Fewell Park in Rock Hill SC it's 1097' with 9 baskets and Teepads! I shot a -8 in 2min 42sec haha

...Nims Park in Rock Falls, IL ... 18 hole... only 2482' !! I shot -8 with a mini :)
As far as 9 hole coures go, tough to beat Fewell Park in Rock Hill SC it's 1097' ... I shot a -8



Since the definition of par is so uncertain saying "-8" doesn't really mean a whole lot. I assume that you mean a 46 at Nims and a 19 at Fewell. I suppose that these are Green or Purple level courses, so they may have a Green or Purple CR Par of 54 and 27 respectively. Even at those levels each course might have some par 2s (but many don't believe in that concept either.) I'd say that until there are some universal standards for par that we stick to just using scores. When you say "-8" I assume that means in relation to "everything's a par 3" (UGH!) so I just convert it back into a number anyway.

For the record, I always consider every course par 3 and then just figure from 54. The only time I have ever went by any other par is at USDGC :p I'm sure you could consider half the holes on those courses par 2's.

i just want to say if anyone wants to play my 752ft course when they're in miami,fl,they are welcome.known as"the southern most"the course uses 9 tee pads at six baskets.the course has three configurations.429ft,486ft and 752ft.records are kept for low score,aces in a row and aces in a game.every so often we have fire hazzard night when we light the fire pits around basket #2.home # 305-232-0508/beep# 305-368-disc miami,fl. p.s.bring more than 1 putter for fire hazzard night :eek:

There is a course further south in Florida, on a military base in the Keys. Sorry.

I think Nims Park in Rock Falls, IL is one of the shortest 18 hole courses in the world! It has baskets and Tee pads and is only 2482' !! I shot -8 with a mini :) As far as 9 hole coures go, tough to beat Fewell Park in Rock Hill SC it's 1097' with 9 baskets and Teepads! I shot a -8 in 2min 42sec haha

Auburn Hills Civic Center is shorter by three feet! :D

:cool:i have heard about the course in the keys.i have not been able to play it.i've heard everything from hurricane katrina and wilma made it unplayable.and the security level changing.how about this.my course is the "southern most pitch & putt course that is lit for 24 hour play" /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif