I'm interested in trying a whitler, which has got me searching around about its comparison to old school lid-like putters.

Being new to DG and flying discs, I have no appreciation for the history of older, floatier, finesse putters.

Could some of you old schoolers or lid throwers help me with a list of lid-like putters that have been around over the years.

I am also interested to know which ones are still widely available or in production. I see that the 86 softie is still available, is that the only one?

Finally, for those with lid experience, would a lid-newbie get the same learning experience throwing an 86 softie as they would throwing the whitler? Should I get a good ulti lid and learn that?

I'll probably end up buying both, with my plastic habit. I am just interested in some commentary from those who have extensive experience throwing lids and lid-like putters.

I am interested in learning the finer points of touch shots. Any recommended ways/equipment for doing this? (My touch shots now are with wizards).

Thanks!

I go back and forth between a Rattler and a Super Puppy. The Super Puppy has a more rounded 'shoulder,' the Rattler is a bit more square. Both are deep dish lid putters. Both hold a line on a touch shot very well in my experience.

The 86 softie is a disc that requires a lot of finesse. I remember reading (I think on this msg board) that the 86 softie was analagous to a ball golf putter because it is virtually useless when not on the green.

The Whittler is a fun disc. I think it might be a bit bigger than the Super Puppy or the Rattler, but someone with more knowledge could tell you for sure.

Good luck learning a new type of disc. They all are discs that can improve your short mid game.

a Putt'r from discraft seems pretty lidish to me. I played midfield in ultimate for a few years and it reminds me a lot of a lid. It's kinda useless to me on my home courses as it suffers from the same wind problems a normal lid does. For finess shots on the course, I use a beatup soft magnet. They're incredible for airbounces and floating turnovers.

the most lid like putter ive used is the aerobie arrow. the wind really does not efect this putter much. put it on a line and it holds rock solid. :p

I'll weigh in on this later tonight after I play a round at Morley, using my Discraft Skystreak for long putts/approaches and my DGA Shuttle Puppy for shorter putts!

Innova Aero

Innova Aero



This was the first non-lid disc ever produced.

Anyway, the way I look at lids is that they are transition discs for those who first became experienced throwing frisbees and then started disc golf. I don't know if I would recommend learning these discs, since you must really be proficient with your touch to get consistency out of these type discs (really easy to turn over). I would recommend something like a soft magnet, soft or swirl APX, or Omega SS for "touch" golf shots. Its just really hard to go back and learn lids after learning flat shots with golf discs. Also, as all putters go I would say that Wizards are on the other side of the spectrum in terms of "touch" as it is a heavy flier that can take a lot of snap without turning at all. For touch most people prefer a disc with a little understability so that it can be thrown with varying degrees of hyzer to get very specific short flight paths. If you want to stay with Wizards for touch I would say go (super)soft and light.

I like the Star Aviar (P&A mold) for touch shots, and putting. It's easy to control, floats well, and is a great putter too. I'm hoping to try a Whitler some day (if you know what I mean). I'm hoping it will be easy to control, like the Aviar I'm using, but slower.

I throw alot with a player who uses the 86 Softy to putt. Works well for him. He uses a Frisbee 70 mold for upshots and finesse shots and has amazing skill with this disc.

Innova Aero



This was the first non-lid disc ever produced.

Anyway, the way I look at lids is that they are transition discs for those who first became experienced throwing frisbees and then started disc golf. I don't know if I would recommend learning these discs, since you must really be proficient with your touch to get consistency out of these type discs (really easy to turn over). I would recommend something like a soft magnet, soft or swirl APX, or Omega SS for "touch" golf shots. Its just really hard to go back and learn lids after learning flat shots with golf discs. Also, as all putters go I would say that Wizards are on the other side of the spectrum in terms of "touch" as it is a heavy flier that can take a lot of snap without turning at all. For touch most people prefer a disc with a little understability so that it can be thrown with varying degrees of hyzer to get very specific short flight paths. If you want to stay with Wizards for touch I would say go (super)soft and light.



I agree with the above, but despite all of that, I think you should still give the big discs a shot. They may just require a slower armspeed to control, but I think that they produce results that are worth the effort.

Good for you, 29444, for recognizing the value of a slower putt or approach disc! I have two old-school discs that I carry in my bag, and use at least one of them on most holes. I make quite a few shots from outside of 40 feet, most with either a DGA Kitty Hawk or Discraft Skystreak (both circa 1983).

I am actively searching for new discs that fly similarly to these. So far, of what I have thrown, the Innova Polecat and Lightning Upshot seem to be close to old school. I have seen but not thrown Putt'rs, and Magnets, and they look to be close to old school.

The 86 softie doesn't have quite as much float as these other discs, but of course, it was Wham-o's attempt at a beveled-edge driver after the original Aero (Eagle) came out. I also don't like the 86's rim.

The Super Puppy is definitely old school (been around since the mid-80's), but its rim has always felt to deep for my taste (shorter fingers).

I'm really looking forward to the Whitler - have three on order.

Hope you find what you're looking for!

I would really recommend you to try the Whitler, I have been trying out a green one ( 158-160grams) and it is really a great flyer when it comes to short approach shot/long putts, it feels like it has more "float" then the discs mention above (Super Puppy and Rattler). The plastic has a great feel to it and it sounds really funny when it hit the chains (!). I would like to try it out in heavier weights, around 175-180 would be a perfect weight, would make it less sensitive to wind. I am still using a modern putter within 10-15 meters of the basket though.
Zephyr is another great approach discs but the grip doesn�t fit everyone. I use it for forehand approaches up to 50-60m, but it is 24,1cm in diameter and it feels like it doesn�t fit in the basket sometimes ;)

Another great disc I could recommend that flies "lid-like" is the Ching Juju.

The mold86 is more or less a stone compared to the discs above.

Lids are too floaty and if there is any wind they blow away.

Stick with heavy discs. Anything under 160 g is asking to get the Dorothy / Aunty Em treatment, even in a slight breeze.

Hey Kjell - how would you compare the Whitler to the Skystreak?

Mmhh, I would say that the Sky-streak is more of a driver than the Whitler. Whitler is more of "floater", the S-S needs more power, get my point?

I do. I throw the Skystreak with some nose up, lots of touch/spin, so I do get some float. What I really like is that it flies absolutely straight!

The Sky-streak is more stable when compared to both the S-puppy and the Whitler...

What is the best weight of super puppy to use? Are there significant differences across weights in terms of flight?

Rizbee,
I'm really interested in hearing your opinions on the whittler once you've given them a good workout.

Skystreaks are out of production?

Thanks for all the feedback, ya'll.

What is the best weight of super puppy to use? Are there significant differences across weights in terms of flight?

Rizbee,
I'm really interested in hearing your opinions on the whittler once you've given them a good workout.

Skystreaks are out of production?

Thanks for all the feedback, ya'll.



Hey 29...,

Weight of the putter will be tuned to how you like them to fly. Max weight (for SP's 174?) will stay more stable/overstable (not much) and will hold better when wind is present. I prefer a few grams lighter (168-172) as they float a little more - which I like. Lighter weights will also stay on an anhyzer line a bit longer, when you need a curving putt/approach. Heavier weight putters just seem like more of a projectile to me - I prefer a disk that flies.

Haven't been to the course yet with the Whittlers but will either today or tomorrow. Did spend some time this morning with 40-50 ft shots into my garage (basket in garage, me out in the condo driveway...). The **** things fly absolutely straight, and stay on line pretty much until they hit something (chains, basket, ground). I love it. They are pretty deep, which may be a grip issue for some, and the plastic on the underside doesn't provide much grip traction, but they're OK for me. They float really well. interested in seeing how they perform with a little wind, which I definitely will have tomorrow. The plastic feels a bit "bouncy" - the question is whether it will absorb kinetic energy when hitting the chains or spring off.

I don't see the Skystreak listed on Discraft's web site, so I assume they are out of production. If they aren't, I'd like to pick up a few to distribute to newbies.

Old school lives!!

Skystreak are out-of-production since the middle of the eightes, 86-87 or so.

Mmmh, interresting...."lid-like putters", almost all the discs mentioned above were used as drivers back then, 81-83, before the Eagle and Aero came out ;).

When the snap guys get around to making the "driver style" whitler it will be money....

It's gonna be stiffer and heavier, so I don't know about you guys out there, but I Am stoked about that.

You're right, add 20 to 30 grams to the Whitler would be sweet.

I like the Star Aviar. It has the depper, rounded rim that is similiar to lids. It's easy to control because it is not a sensative to the angle of release than a narrow rimmed disc.

I've tried the Whitler. If you like the deep rimmed lids, it has some similarity. The one I tried had both a deep rim and a domed top. It did tend to glide but I found it awkward in my hand. I would consider it a within 25 foot putter.

I agree that the Star Aviar is a sweet putt and approach disc, that's what I'm using, and I'm getting very good results.

A disc that is in between the S Aviar and Whitler, at least for me, is the Star Aero. It seems to be a little slower than the aviar, with a little more glide, and doesn't feel as odd to those of us who are used to more modern discs. I do like the slow flight of the Whitler, but it's just so different from anything that I throw, it will take a long time for me to get used to it. The Aero is pretty close to the aviar, just a little wider/deeper, and the glide/speed is nice for a lot of shots.
I've been throwing a heavy Star Aero, and I'm going to get a lighter one to see if it works better for me. The heavy 178g Aero I've been throwing is great for slow, right turning upshots and drives.

My 17 year old son loves his Aero. It's a Pat Pend from a tournament in Vegas in 1983. It's low 160g. I'm going to give him a heavier "Grape Ape" for windy days.

Wow ... went to the push-and-putt course in Carbondale, CO (http://www.carbondale.com/) for lunch. Aced hole #3 with my Aero. Man, don't you just love watching a disc hit in the chains from the tee box! :D

thing with the whitler is, for those of us who started DG from ultimate. The whitler is MONEY! it's like a smaller, faster, more wind resistant version of the ultrastar.

I started playing ulti when I was 14, and just started DG about 3 years ago. So the whitler is a great thing to have in my bag.

Holy thread revival!

Finally broke down and bought me a whittler. White, weighs 169g. Looking foward to learning the lessons of the "old school" discs. Should be fun!

I've only heard good things about this disc.

Holy thread revival!

Finally broke down and bought me a whittler. White, weighs 169g. Looking foward to learning the lessons of the "old school" discs. Should be fun!

I've only heard good things about this disc.



They should make a version in a Puppy mold size !!!!! :eek: :D

Holy thread revival!

Finally broke down and bought me a whittler. White, weighs 169g. Looking foward to learning the lessons of the "old school" discs. Should be fun!

I've only heard good things about this disc.



They should make a version in a Puppy mold size !!!!! :eek: :D


Agreed!!! :D I'd buy one. OK Let's be realistic...I'd buy a dozen...

They should make a version in a Puppy mold size !!!!! :eek: :D



is the puppy mold bigger or smaller than a whittler?

also, why would a whittler in that size be so schweet?

see how little I know about these old school discs? kinda sad, in a way. darn kids! :D

The lesson here, my child, is "Less is more".... No wait, the Whitler is large diameter so the lesson must be "More is more". That's the ticket grasshopper. :cool:

They should make a version in a Puppy mold size !!!!! :eek: :D



is the puppy mold bigger or smaller than a whittler?

also, why would a whittler in that size be so schweet?

see how little I know about these old school discs? kinda sad, in a way. darn kids! :D


The puppy mold was 21cm - smaller in diameter than the Whittler. One complaint about a disc like the Whittler is that the increased diameter makes the disc more prone to bouncing out of the basket - it's a slightly tighter fit since the diameter is bigger. I can see that point somewhat.

Hey - I was "last cash" this past weekend at the Memorial. I was next to last place after the first round and had to grind like hell over the next 2 rounds to move up 20 places... :D

The puppy mold was 21cm - smaller in diameter than the Whittler. One complaint about a disc like the Whittler is that the increased diameter makes the disc more prone to bouncing out of the basket - it's a slightly tighter fit since the diameter is bigger. I can see that point somewhat.




But the Whitler has a much slower, "softer" contact with the chains which I think more than compensates for the increased size factor. In practicing long putt/short upshots with it the thing just seems to stick to the chains even when it is well outside of the sweet spot.

The puppy mold was 21cm - smaller in diameter than the Whittler. One complaint about a disc like the Whittler is that the increased diameter makes the disc more prone to bouncing out of the basket - it's a slightly tighter fit since the diameter is bigger. I can see that point somewhat.




But the Whitler has a much slower, "softer" contact with the chains which I think more than compensates for the increased size factor. In practicing long putt/short upshots with it the thing just seems to stick to the chains even when it is well outside of the sweet spot.



I totally agree. The Whitler is a freak! And even though it's large, it stays in the basket more often than not. It's designed perfectly for what it's supposed to do.

Good info ya'll. Thanks!

Riz, since moving up to AM1, "LastCash" has been my goal.
I've been able to meet or exceed that goal in every tournament since last October. Congrats on your cashing!

Throwing understable/"true stable" plastic has really helped my game, I'm still learning how to make a disc F L Y (as opposed to hurling projectiles, as many have refered to). It has been an extremely worthwile effort. Blake T and his philosophy has been immeasurably beneficial for me. Ya'll old schoolers have helped too (Jamie A, Mole, Bear, etc). Long live the hyzer-flip. :D

The puppy mold was 21cm - smaller in diameter than the Whittler. One complaint about a disc like the Whittler is that the increased diameter makes the disc more prone to bouncing out of the basket - it's a slightly tighter fit since the diameter is bigger. I can see that point somewhat.




But the Whitler has a much slower, "softer" contact with the chains which I think more than compensates for the increased size factor. In practicing long putt/short upshots with it the thing just seems to stick to the chains even when it is well outside of the sweet spot.



I totally agree. The Whitler is a freak! And even though it's large, it stays in the basket more often than not. It's designed perfectly for what it's supposed to do.



I don't disagree that the slower speed and flexible material allow the Whittler to stick when it seems that it might not. However, what if you could get the same float, slow speed and stickiness AND get it in a smaller diameter disc? I have that to some extent with my Shuttle Puppy, but I can't see anyone being willing to pay $175+ for one of those...

Great job! That's a good goal to start out with - now aim a little higher! Yes, I do prefer watching discs fly as opposed to seeing them projected. I throw a lot of light plastic and regularly get some crazy looks when my 150g Sidewinder flips up, turns over and sails.

Last cash is my baseline for this year in MM1 (although I am aiming higher). I started playing again 2 yrs ago after 15+ years away from the sport. Since then, sciatica and colon surgery have slowed me down a bit, but I'm healthy now and ready to play! I love this game!

Since october: LC, 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 2nd

LC keeps me humble.

:D

I admire your courage in using Last Cash as a screen name Steve. I seriously considered using DFL as mine, but decided I couldn't deal with that kind of pressure. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D

DFL...

been there, done that. :o

:D

REAL question now.

When gripping a deep dish disc, do the tips of your fingers touch the flight plate, or are they sort of half-way up on the inside of the rim? I'll prolly have to take a shallow grip, as it feels like the disc is glued to my hand with a full grip.

Finally playing tomorrow (first time in a month, woo hoo!), and I can't wait to throw this whittler!

Can't tell ya, cuz on most Whittler shots I'm using a fan grip!

REAL question now.

When gripping a deep dish disc, do the tips of your fingers touch the flight plate, or are they sort of half-way up on the inside of the rim? I'll prolly have to take a shallow grip, as it feels like the disc is glued to my hand with a full grip.

Finally playing tomorrow (first time in a month, woo hoo!), and I can't wait to throw this whittler!



Fan grip.
Everything you ever wanted to know about grip. discgolfreview.com/grips (http://discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml)

I tried my whittler out, and it told me I'm a torque monkey. :o

Outside about 70 ft. I couldn't get the thing to do anything other than "flip over like a {insert euphemism here}". Anhyzer City.

I couldn't carry it for the round, cause I had no idea how to throw it. I need to get in some serious time with it first. I used to be able to throw frisbee, I guess I just forgot how.

Perhaps, as others have said, throwing modern plastic has ruined a good thing. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Any tips on how to (re)learn how to throw the dern thing?!?

:D

I tried my whittler out, and it told me I'm a torque monkey. :o

Outside about 70 ft. I couldn't get the thing to do anything other than "flip over like a {insert euphemism here}". Anhyzer City.

I couldn't carry it for the round, cause I had no idea how to throw it. I need to get in some serious time with it first. I used to be able to throw frisbee, I guess I just forgot how.

Perhaps, as others have said, throwing modern plastic has ruined a good thing. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Any tips on how to (re)learn how to throw the dern thing?!?

:D

Yep, play catch with it before the round. First, it is a great way to warm up your arm. I'll grab a buddy and start only 50' apart, then just play catch throwing hyzers, anhyzers, and straight shots. Slowly back up and increase the distance inbetween until you are a couple hundred feet apart. Second, it's a heck of a lot of fun! Ever since I started warming up this way, a bunch of my buddies got Whitlers and started doing the same before and after rounds. The REAL trick is that during a round you have to remind yourself to throw it like you are playing catch, NOT like a golf disc, and that can be awfully hard to do :)! One way that has helped me is to eliminate the approach in the tee box. Every time I have tried to run-up or x-step with a Whitler; yoink! big right turn. Standing still and directly facing my intended line seems to work better for me.

nanook