couldn't find any discussion using search, so here goes...

I've scheduled a C tier Pro only event for December
I would like to have local Ams in attendance to afford them the opportunity of being paired with top pros like
Feldberg,Jenkins, Sexton, Sprague, Embree and Mason.

My question is:

what happens to their Am status if they accept cash?

interested in issues/factors such as:

pdga points/ratings
amateur status/forced to turn pro
worlds/major exclusions
955 rating cut-off
substituting prizes for cash
TD options

cheers and thank you
brock

They lose thier am status and start getting pro points. They can still play Am if they are sub 955. Basically it is the same as any other event.

They can't get prizes instead of cash.

They can't get prixes instead of cash.


Where is that rule?

They can't get prixes instead of cash.


Where is that rule?



It is a know rule and it happened earlier this year and caused a big deal.

Is it in the rule book or tour guide? Or is this just something else the BOD or RC made up without telling anyone?

I've know about it for 5 years and I believe it is in the rulebook as well as under things that make you lose AM status.

Just flipped through the rulebook and tour guide and didn't see it anywhere. How is it a rule if it's not published anywhere?

Nevermind, I found it in the 2006 Division Guide:(kinda obscure)

"A player relinquishes amateur status by registering in a professional division with the PDGA, or by competing in a professional division at a PDGA Tour event and accepting prize money (cash) based on place of finish. A player also relinquishes amateur status by accepting prizes in lieu of prize money (cash) for placing in a professional division at a PDGA event."

Here is another scanrio that may warrent its own thread.

In the 2007 AFDO next year, the winner will receive a new car.

If an AM happened to win this event and declined the cash, but accepted the car, would his status need to be changed to "pro" ?

Just flipped through the rulebook and tour guide and didn't see it anywhere. How is it a rule if it's not published anywhere?

The rule is there. It is 804.08. It refers to the document you quoted.

If an am wins a car in an am division, they are still an am. They could win diamonds, furs and gold ingots and still be an am. If they win that stuff in a pro division, or if they win a salted peanut, they are a pro.

john chapman and carlton howard replied to my emails within an hour, very nice.
summary:
If an am player accepts cash in a pro division, he is now classified as a pro player. If he (or any player) is 954 or below, he can still enter as an Am in future tournaments (even though he is registered as a pdga pro) - Worlds and majors excluded.

ace pots, skins, ctps are usually considered ancillary events and don't count as cashing in a pdga event.


as for winning the car, if he enters as a pro, accepts the car, he forfeits his am status and will be reclassified as a pro. He could always petition to become an am again, but if i was on the rules committee and saw he won a car, I'd decline his request.

Here is another scanrio that may warrent its own thread.

In the 2007 AFDO next year, the winner will receive a new car.

If an AM happened to win this event and declined the cash, but accepted the car, would his status need to be changed to "pro" ?



If he won the Pro division and tok the car then yes.

Is it in the rule book or tour guide? Or is this just something else the BOD or RC made up without telling anyone?


I hate it when people take such an inflammatory and derisive tone when the truth of the matter is they themselves were just too dang lazy to read the rules. :mad:

couldn't find any discussion using search, so here goes...

I've scheduled a C tier Pro only event for December
I would like to have local Ams in attendance to afford them the opportunity of being paired with top pros like
Feldberg,Jenkins, Sexton, Sprague, Embree and Mason.

My question is:

what happens to their Am status if they accept cash?

interested in issues/factors such as:

pdga points/ratings
amateur status/forced to turn pro
worlds/major exclusions
955 rating cut-off
substituting prizes for cash
TD options

cheers and thank you
brock



Brock,

Without checking all necessary documents here are some quick points to consider.

In order for other divisions to play with the top pros they will have to play in the same division, since our rules of play do not allow mixing of divisions and certainly not mixing of classifications during PDGA play. When you say "afford the opportunity" that is what our rules say also...

It is my understanding that if an amateur plays in Open with a player rating below 955 and cashes that they may accept prizes in lieu of cash and keep their amateur status. But you really need to check with the PDGA Competition Director about that...

So on the surface I don't see any challenges with running an event as you propose. I might toss out the idea of offering a greatly reduced entry fee for these amateurs to play in the pro divisions, this is permissible under our rules as I understand them. The only reason you might not want to do that is if you are planning on offering a Gold level course layout and you really need to make sure competitors skill level is not going to:

A. Make the round no fun.
B. Slow down play too much.

Personally, I don't like the idea of amateurs accepting pro cash. Then again I like even less amateurs accepting am cash, so take that with a grain of salt.

Colin has already posted an excerpt from the division guidelines that prevents an amateur from excepting prizes in a pro division and retaining am status.

"ask the PDGA Competition Director about that..."
isn't that bellinger now? he's right up the road, nice.

thanks Colin, Nick and everybody else, I understand now.

cheers

Colin has already posted an excerpt from the division guidelines that prevents an amateur from excepting prizes in a pro division and retaining am status.



Sorry, didn't read the thread, brock emed me to post an answer. Good to know that isn't the rule.

I was talking with Feldberg (our SC) and he said when an am accepts cash in a pro event, he can still play am events if he is below 955, but can NOT accept prizes at am events any longer, ONLY trophies.

No. Pros with ratings below 955 can accept prizes in am divisions.

thanks chuck, I thought that was the case, as one of our locals has cashed in the pro division, but has been accepting prizes at local am events.

I'll talk with Dave tonight and clarify what he really meant

What he may be thinking is that ams playing in pro divisions can't accept merch instead of cash. If a player accepts either cash or merch in a pro division, they become a pro. Ams can only accept trophies in pro divisions.

I was wondering about this situation. A few years ago at a PDGA event here in WI the TD paid all the am players cash because no vendors showed up. This might have been talked about before so i apologize if i missed it. My question is would all the ams who accepted the cash now be Pro even though the TD was not sure what to do? I would think they all should be pro. The players should know the rules about accepting cash right?

I was wondering about this situation. A few years ago at a PDGA event here in WI the TD paid all the am players cash because no vendors showed up. This might have been talked about before so i apologize if i missed it. My question is would all the ams who accepted the cash now be Pro even though the TD was not sure what to do? I would think they all should be pro. The players should know the rules about accepting cash right?



This is a muddy situation, but I imagine that it could be cleared up. It also has to do with how the TD reports the prizes the Am's recieved.

1) obviously the players signed up as amateurs
2) An unfortunate, but avoidable, circumstance occurred which the TD had to repay the Am's back with cash.

Regardless of the poor planning of the TD, if the status of these players were questioned over this event, I don't think it would be hard to prove they are still amateurs.

They lose thier am status and start getting pro points. They can still play Am if they are sub 955. Basically it is the same as any other event.

They can't get prizes instead of cash.



If someone has accepted cash and been declared a pro, why/how can they still play in an amateur division if there rating is below 955?

Here is the how. (http://www.pdga.com/documents/td/06PlayerDivisionsGridFinal.pdf)

and stated on the first page of this thread:


john chapman and carlton howard replied to my emails within an hour, very nice.
summary:
If an am player accepts cash in a pro division, he is now classified as a pro player. If he (or any player) is 954 or below, he can still enter as an Am in future tournaments (even though he is registered as a pdga pro) - Worlds and majors excluded.

ace pots, skins, ctps are usually considered ancillary events and don't count as cashing in a pdga event.

Okay, so a player accepts cash declaring themself a pro. For whatever reason they begin to suck at disc golf and there rating drops significantly. They can then begin playing amateur again? And if so can they accept merch?

Affirmative.

If an am player accepts cash in a pro division, he is now classified as a pro player. If he (or any player) is 954 or below, he can still enter as an Am in future tournaments (even though he is registered as a pdga pro) - Worlds and majors excluded.



This has always struck me as being odd. If you're a pro (whether you've joined the PDGA as a pro, or if you've accepted cash in a pro event) you should play pro. The 955 rule seems like a replacement for the now defunked Pro 2 division. If you're a pro and no longer competitive in Pro events, shouldn't the course of action to regain AM status be petitioning the PDGA?

I think the provision was made for several reasons and is a good one.

For the Adv player near 950 that would like to try the waters in Pro, but not if he will be stuck there.

For the Pro Women that have no alternative division of similarly skilled players in the Pro ranks.

For older players that are no longer competitive in Open or Masters.

The amateur players should be very competitive with these players and it should be good for everyone that is playing in the proper divisions. If you are rated at 900 or below and playing in Advanced, then you will be complaining about it.

Just to add to that.

Why would a mid to top level Pro want to keep 940ish players in the open division, and why would Advanced players be opposed to having 950ish rated players playing with other 950ish players ?

The goal of divisions should be the same as the goal of handicapping. The player that plays the best as compared to their average game wins. If it's a great day for you, then you should be competitive. If you are having a really bad day, then you should not be in the cash.

Those are very good reasons for the rule. Although, it seems like a loop hole to duck, dive, dodge, and duck competition.

There is not much competition playing against players that have 6+ strokes on you per round, so the competition is better among similarly skilled players.

Joe,

As I understand it, one reason is to keep players from leaving the game altogether. If a pro player severaly injures themself and can never be 100%, if they are forced to play with Open players, that are competing at a higher level, they will quit playing. It has happened over and over. If the player never recovers to the point of competing at the open level, they can even petition to move back to the amateur divisions.

There are some players that plateu and never move from that point. It may be that they don't practice enough, it may be they never acquire the additional skills, but if they try to play Open and cash, they need the avenue to drop back and prove that they are amateur and not Open players.


Those are very good reasons for the rule. Although, it seems like a loop hole to duck, dive, dodge, and duck competition.

Why would a mid to top level Pro want to keep 940ish players in the open division



To increase the pro purse with less talented golfers = so called "easy money"



[/QUOTE]and why would Advanced players be opposed to having 950ish rated players playing with other 950ish players ?

[/QUOTE]

I'd rather compete against someone who is better then me. Playing other 950 rated players makes you play 950 rated golf...who wants to spin their wheels? I much rather "play up" than down.

I just don't see why petioning the PDGA isn't the only option for regaining "Am" status. How hard is it to write a letter stating your case (to old and not competitive, injury, jumped the gun to early and support the case by providing your lousy pro finishes etc)? I just think it complicates things....although, the PDGA seems to like things a little complicated ;)