I'm about 5'9, 128 lbs.
My long throws hit 400 but I average more like 360-380. However, I can just feel that I'm not harnessing my full potential when I throw (I'll try to get video at some point).
I've recently been trying some changes (hard power grip instead of fork grip, i.e.) to no avail. Emulating most players form (Feldberg, Schweb, Schultz, etc.) doesn't make sense because they have such different body types.
So is there any sort of general advice for someone of my stature to work on real distance?
(FYI, I'm happy with my putting and the rest of my game, so none of those suggestions--I just want to make all of my discs go farther than I can right now)

5'9" isn't too small. You're a little lighter than me, but I'm 3 or 4 inches shorter, and I can get them out to 500 sometimes. I focus on a smooth run up and a quick whip-thru. Not fast, but quick. Like uh, not fast all the way thru the throw, but very quick right as the disc comes thru the body and out of the hand. I think that alot of Ams have runups that are too fast and jumpy. I think this because I have experimented with many different speeds and rhythms for my runup. I find that I throw farther (and much more accurate) when I have a slower run up. If I start to run or jump, or just go too fast, I SHANK. Tortoise and the hare, slow and smooth wins the race.

edit PS: I experimented and concluded abut this last summer. This summer, I played with Doss once, and he pretty much proved my theory for me. He has the smoothest, most controlled run up, and then whips it thru sooo qucikly. He is an amazing driver with a nice slow runup.

Shane, this year at Am worlds only two people cleared 500' and one of them was Devan "The Dude" and he is about the same height as you and I but he has a little more weight on him. When he throws you can tell that he is focusing on ripping through the shot. I try to do the same thing but I couldn't quite clear 500' but I did get 493' :DAnyway I would also suggest putting your thumb closer to the middle of the disc. Nikko started doing this and gained nearly 100ft to his drive. Chris Boro also has switched to this and has added 40 or so feet to his "D".


BTW this is the way Tyler Horne grips his disc and he throws BIG!!! If all else fails ask Blake. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

What Damon says about how short he is and how far he throws is true. I played a round with him on a Fly-18 style golf course disc golf course. He's a shrimp. He can boom. :D

Anyway I would also suggest putting your thumb closer to the middle of the disc. Nikko started doing this and gained nearly 100ft to his drive. Chris Boro also has switched to this and has added 40 or so feet to his "D".



Good advice! I've been suggesting that for years. Too bad my belly gets in the way on the pull through now. ;)

try throwing Innova plastic ;)

He's a shrimp. He can boom. :D



Thank you Bruce. BTW, I think I'm going to the Sturgeon.

I definitely agree with Daemon. I am about your size (5'8" 135) and can throw 450+ on good throws (nice tailwind, etc). I think I could throw farther too if I emulated Daemon. The smooth runup and quick snap through is key and he does it very nicely. I have a perfect clip of him parking a very difficult hole with that runup...when I find it/have a chance I will post it

Trying to slow down your runup can actually hurt your distance by throwing your timing off. The slow runup helps many people but I am not one of them.

Trying to slow down your runup can actually hurt your distance by throwing your timing off. The slow runup helps many people but I am not one of them.



Slow being a relative word, i guess smooth is more accurate. I think a progressive build up will generate lots of power while maintaining timing...for me at least

I definitely agree with Daemon. I am about your size (5'8" 135) and can throw 450+ on good throws (nice tailwind, etc). I think I could throw farther too if I emulated Daemon. The smooth runup and quick snap through is key and he does it very nicely. I have a perfect clip of him parking a very difficult hole with that runup...when I find it/have a chance I will post it


Thanks JDobb, kind words. If only I could put together strings of birds like you can...

Here is a video of me from last winter. video (http://www.local101dg.com/video/MVI_0809.avi)
I was going too fast at that time. Also, I was reaching back too far to be accurate for that shot consistently.

Here (http://www.local101dg.com/) is our homepage. Scroll down a tad and there is a video wrap-up of our last event. My throw is about 30 seconds in, wearing the sleeveless shirt. Bob Smart is after me. He can definately pump way past me.

Just went to a field and the course to try that stuff out and nothing seemed to change. Well, I was much more wild but that was to be expected.
It just didn't feel like I was getting anything on the disc still. I'll get some pictures of my old and "new" grip up later to see if something is very wrong. If not, must be my timing.

The best advice that helped me with distance in golf is shortening my steps on the tee box. This simultaneously caused me to increase my hip turn in relation to the pin/target. And soforth, like mentioned above, this also caused me to have a faster rip through the end of the throw.

This really has not caused me to increase my overall distance, but it did increase my average drive distance from 390ft to 425ft.

If you can get your arm to accelerate faster, (best way I know of is through hip turn) then you can get the disc to go faster and hence farther.

Of course, throwing for distance and increasing golf drives are two totally different things. My advice is for the course, and not distance comps. I have to learn a thing or two about the wind (as in not throwing in swirling/unpredictable winds) for distance competitions.....453ft blah :p

My normal grip
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3456/pict0574fv5.jpg
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/1552/pict0575ga4.jpg

Grip I tried today
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2475/pict0576xb3.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8628/pict0577cy2.jpg



Does the second grip look "ideal". I tried my normal grip with the thumb position from #2, but it ended up ripping from my pinky more than my index/middle finger.
Any other tips?

Your normal grip is the grip I use the most. the only time I use a power grip is on spike hyzers or 400+ shots. the power grip should add some distance though if you keep practicing it.

Should I mess around w/ moving my thumb towards the center on my normal grip?

snap/timing is what you are missing.

i've seen several players that were smaller than you crush well out over 500'. timing and hand strength are what seem to be the greatest factors for them. bruce-lee-like acceleration helps.

grip mods can add D, but generally only when it strengthens a key part of the grip that wasn't as strong as it could have been.

a strong majority of players that throw 360-400' have good body placement/form, but it is their timing that holds them back (most of them burn their acceleration early on in the throw).

all players that can throw a 450' line drive (there aren't that many of these players in the world) have nearly identical timing during the key parts in their throw.

i would suggest watching videos of long throwers and focusing on that. i can say it took me about 5 years of watching videos to really "get it" and be able to see minute timing differences that can add/subtract 50' or more on a given throw.

a summary of observations:

-when watching great players focus on what they do that is the same and ignore subtle differences in body placement, etc.

-avoid focusing too much on slow motion video and static frames. while this is helpful for body placement, you cannot pick out the timing discrepancies.

-focus on timing through the power zone. i consider the power zone to be as the disc passes the right pectoral and through the rip. i have found that most long throwers do not really start to accelerate the disc until it is around the left-center of the chest. this allows them to get progressively faster from this point and really have focused power as they come through the rip. Schweb is one of the easier players to see this timing with.

as for integrating this into part of your throw, it is probably easiest to do without using a runup and using very little reach back, which will force you to accelerate and rip if you want the throw to go anywhere.

Shane, listen up young manoonit... first of all, start lifting wieghts and doing abdominal work. it's amazing what sheer strength can do for your game. You have the kind of body that with hard work you can be totally thin and ripped. Second, try to imitate other smaller guys that can kill it like our buddy Brinster. Instead of reaching back and pulling straight through, coil the disc up near your left shoulder with a bent elbow and make an effort to "bounce' throught the release. I'm an old guy and making these very changes has given me my distance back.

Oh, and keep your left hand close to the hip for better centrifugal acceleration. And get a haircut. That fro's gotta go...

Shane, listen up young manoonit... first of all, start lifting wieghts and doing abdominal work. it's amazing what sheer strength can do for your game. You have the kind of body that with hard work you can be totally thin and ripped. Second, try to imitate other smaller guys that can kill it like our buddy Brinster. Instead of reaching back and pulling straight through, coil the disc up near your left shoulder with a bent elbow and make an effort to "bounce' throught the release. I'm an old guy and making these very changes has given me my distance back.



Steve is probably not the best guy to try and emulate since he has a unusual technique. Listen to Blake!!!!! :D

grip mods can add D, but generally only when it strengthens a key part of the grip that wasn't as strong as it could have been.



What specific modifications have you seen, and what key parts of the grip gained strength?? THanks Blake.

I've recently changed my release point and have added a good 20-40' to my average drives...btw 5'7" (210lbs :eek:), though my average is still below 400'.
I used to release with a near-locked elbow and am now releasing more 'in front of me' than 'at the side'...seems to add more spin, too. I feel this allows me to actually 'accelerate through the hit' in a smoother fashion.
.02

I'm not saying Blake doesn't make some valid points, but I know Shane and how he throws. and Brinster's technique isn't unusual at all, and it works... couldn't hurt to try, eh?

I've only seen him throw once at a league in KC (during warmups) he was CRUSHING some...he does have a l-o-n-g runup.

I'm not saying Blake doesn't make some valid points, but I know Shane and how he throws. and Brinster's technique isn't unusual at all, and it works... couldn't hurt to try, eh?



Ok well who else throws like Steve? Barry's throw is the same way in that it is very hard to copy and probably won't help.

you know why 2 people don't throw similar?

B/c different things work for different people.

Compare your throw only to one persons - yourself.

Should be How to make a small body drive a car and look Over the steering wheel , not through it !!!

What specific modifications have you seen, and what key parts of the grip gained strength??



anything that makes the rip point stronger.


I'm not saying Blake doesn't make some valid points, but I know Shane and how he throws. and Brinster's technique isn't unusual at all, and it works... couldn't hurt to try, eh?



Shane has sent me video about 5 times over the past 3 years or so. if his throw is still anything like the last video he sent me, timing and power through the finish are what are causing the limits on power.

Brinster has excellent technique and superb timing and strength through the finish. there is definitely much that can be learned by studying his throw.

a big thing is arm speed . i am bigger then the average 15 year old but i use to only average arouf 310 on my drives. one round a guy i was playing with told me to slow my run up and work on arm speed. now my drives are the best part of my game i average aroun 400 on drives now and in an open field i can get around 450 sometimes. so i dont thing size has much to do with it as much as having fluid motion and arm speed. at worlds last week i saw a kid aroun 5 foot 3 and no more the 120 pounds throw i think it was 380 in the distance contest and he was playing in the 13 and under division.

a big thing is arm speed . i am bigger then the average 15 year old but i use to only average arouf 310 on my drives. one round a guy i was playing with told me to slow my run up and work on arm speed. now my drives are the best part of my game i average aroun 400 on drives now and in an open field i can get around 450 sometimes. so i dont thing size has much to do with it as much as having fluid motion and arm speed. at worlds last week i saw a kid aroun 5 foot 3 and no more the 120 pounds throw i think it was 380 in the distance contest and he was playing in the 13 and under division.



That would be big Dave Wiggins :D

arm speed (velocity) is a contributor, but acceleration and snap/finish power is equally if not more important.

the majority of players you will find with tremendous armspeed but not a lot of focused power at the finish will be peaking out in the 380' range (+/- 20').

you can also find players with great focused power through the finish but not a ton of armspeed that can go more like 450'.

granted, to go 600', you need both tremendous armspeed and great finish power.

timing and hand strength are what seem to be the greatest factors .... bruce-lee-like acceleration helps.



"The less effort, the faster and more powerful you will be" -- Bruce Lee

people laugh at me when i tell them to be "like water" when they accelerate into the hit (during the last 12-14" or so of the pull through) :P

maybe you should say "water" with a Chinese accent and start the discussion by calling it the Bruce Lee method :D

either that or carry an audio copy of Bruce Lee saying it ;)

What's Bruce Lee's favorite drink?

WAH-TUHHHHH!!! :D

Thanks for all the advice guys--starting to notice some changes already.

Blake, with regardsto that drill (stand still no reach back), should I be doing any sort of weight shift or just throwing with my arm? I've set up a fence to block my reach back but the timing with weight shift is weird. Should I just stand and fling?

I find if your grip is weak you are better off to grap them under the armpits and swing them like throwing a hammer, if you have a strong grip then you can grip them by the feet and really spin them out there.
:D:D:D:D

"Sorry I read this as how to throw a small body a long way"

http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/veggies/images/corn.jpg

5 feet even and 95 pounds believe it or not. At 5' 10" and 180 he puts me to shame. As far as watching and learning, I've tried that. i must just be stoopid

Blake, with regardsto that drill (stand still no reach back), should I be doing any sort of weight shift or just throwing with my arm? I've set up a fence to block my reach back but the timing with weight shift is weird. Should I just stand and fling?



one thing you can try is to just start weight forward and lead into the throw with your legs (pushing off a bit with your back leg to start the rotation). if you are trying to build feel of the finish, you should be trying to finish strong enough to where you HAVE to pivot and step through.

most people i've worked with on this have said that it felt way different than their normal power once they started hitting it.

So basically do the verrrrry end of the throw (well the main power part of it) from a stand still and then work a run up back in later?

Also: should I be doing this with all my discs? And what sort of distances have you seen people do w/ no reach back standing still?

the piece of advice that worked the best for me was to relax until the hit. go out with a stack of discs and make your focus be on the release (it happens fast so concentrate) once you are feeling the hit try to throw some shots where you are completley relaxed arm grip body and right before the hit tense up. at that instant before the disc rips out of your hand concentrate on increasing your grip pressure as much as you can.

I did this a few weeks ago and it was amazing how much cleaner my release is now.

It is all about being calm and cool until the moment of explosion.

So basically do the verrrrry end of the throw (well the main power part of it) from a stand still and then work a run up back in later?




work on integrating shoulder rotation and hip rotation so that you get the most acceleration/strength through the hit.

slowly add some footwork while still keeping the reach compact. focus every additional motion on making yourself accelerate faster and stronger through the rip.

as you begin to feel the hit more and more you can add reachback which should yield some extra D.

Throw like you don't care if your hand falls off or not.

Throw like you don't care if your hand falls off or not.



but then wouldn't we be living a lie? :D

A smaller/lighter body/mass requires less force to accelerate it...it's all about 'fast-twitch' muscle fibers and explosive power generation - beginning from the ground up through footwork and hip generated power translated into torso and finally arm/catapault-type action....resulting in complimentary disc speed/spin.

I dont think anyone has mentioned him yet - but the farthest thrower at AM worlds 05 in Flagstaff was Linus Astrom the fifteen year old Sweed. He was ~ 5 feet and no more than 110 lbs. Guess how far he threw? almost 600 big ones. (I forget the real number but 570' comes to mind). His technique was sick, his reach back was huge, and his whip was like 20,000 RPMS. Oh yeah, he took first place in <19 and shot better than Jack S.

**** Sweeds...

I dont think anyone has mentioned him yet - but the farthest thrower at AM worlds 05 in Flagstaff was Linus Astrom the fifteen year old Sweed. He was ~ 5 feet and no more than 110 lbs. Guess how far he threw? almost 600 big ones. (I forget the real number but 570' comes to mind). His technique was sick, his reach back was huge, and his whip was like 20,000 RPMS. Oh yeah, he took first place in <19 and shot better than Jack S.

**** Sweeds...



Linus was like 5'7 and threw 525. I played with him before the tournament and had him by two inches. :DHe was like 120lbs though so pretty small.

I dont think anyone has mentioned him yet - but the farthest thrower at AM worlds 05 in Flagstaff was Linus Astrom the fifteen year old Sweed. He was ~ 5 feet and no more than 110 lbs. Guess how far he threw? almost 600 big ones. (I forget the real number but 570' comes to mind)....Oh yeah, he took first place in <19 and shot better than Jack S.


A - He threw 525 feet. Others threw farther but were OB. (Devan Owens and myself would be a prime example.)
2. Get your facts straight about beating Jack. Of course he did b/c the juniors didn't have a semi-final, played different coureses, and had a much easier final 9. 2005 Am Worlds - Get your facts here (http://pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4646)

C. Linus has the longest throw per pound of body weight that I have seen, and that includes NC's little darling 11 y/o.

The <19 guys did play the same final 9 as we did. They didn't play the same semi course though. Oh yeah they didn't get rained on either. :D

How to make a small body throw a long way (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.crazymonkeygames.com/images/midget-tossing.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.crazymonkeygames.com/&h=150&w=150&sz=19&hl=en&sig2=QilNJBSnzVDG7RAyjMQ-lw&start=3&tbnid=1E0b_71O9j2HwM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=96&ei=YrHnRK_pEYfE6gGXruy_Dg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmidget%2Btossing%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3D en%26hs%3DRkv%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG)

Sorry - my poor memory got the best of me...

Either way, my point is this: For such a little guy, he threw a heck of a long way. I do believe though he would have made the final nine in the advanced division for sure. But I shouldn't make such comments and hijak this thread, so if you want to discuss the matter further, we should start a different thread under the players catagory.

No new thread needed.

I check back the stats, and he threw 519, which beat Devan and I by a meter.

I'll take that when throwing in the rain vs. him throwing in perfect weather.

Either way - he's a little Swede pimp, and I imagine he would have made the final 9.

Good luck on learning the long drive.

Either way - he's a little Swede pimp, and I imagine he would have made the final 9.



You saying he would have beaten me? Neither of you know the conditions nor the circumstances.

Either way - he's a little Swede pimp, and I imagine he would have made the final 9.



You saying he would have beaten me? Neither of you know the conditions nor the circumstances.



Hey Eddie he would've beaten you! :DProbably me too.

LOL.. yeah he would have destroyed the whole field.

Good luck on learning the long drive.


I don't think Dion needs too much luck. He seems to have the long drive coming together quite nicely.

You texans are funny with your distance throwing and such.

Good luck on learning the long drive.


I don't think Dion needs too much luck. He seems to have the long drive coming together quite nicely.

You texans are funny with your distance throwing and such.



I know a Texan who probably have won Pro worlds distance...... :D

Good luck on learning the long drive.


I don't think Dion needs too much luck. He seems to have the long drive coming together quite nicely.

You texans are funny with your distance throwing and such.



I know a Texan who probably have won Pro worlds distance...... :D


"Probably" is such a terrible word, isn't it.

Well he throws as far if not farther then Avery.

Well he throws as far if not farther then Avery.



Except for the fact he didn't beat me last year at Am Worlds.

You are Robbie's lap dog :D

EOG would have gone down...lmao....

I tied Robbie! He throws BIGG. BTW I think the AM winner tied Avery. :D

Better said :D I was in H-town last weekend, but I couldn't catch you guys for a round b/c I had to head home.

When I make it there, you two will need to show me some courses other than Bass.

I need to play Oak Meadow! :D

EOG would have gone down...lmao....



Well, I def didnt have to worry about you! LOL

EOG would have gone down...lmao....



Well, I def didnt have to worry about you! LOL



Maybe you didn't but Kim did! I thought Jason was going to break his face. :D

EOG would have gone down...lmao....



Well, I def didnt have to worry about you! LOL



Maybe you didn't but Kim did! I thought Jason was going to break his face. :D



EOG - You can kindly eat me :o

Now for KSW, he made comments all week that were inappropriate (e.g. - Lead card pool A - Matt sponsored by Gateway, Chris Boro sponsored by Gateway, KSW, and myself now sponsored by Gateway - KSW's comment in front of Chris & I,"Matt, would you switch to Innova if they offered you a spot." A few more comments were made about the inferior plastic and his desire to be sponsored by Discraft). The best thing would have been for me to say "shut the f-up," or I could knocked him around for a little while b/c I would have made the top 10 :DHe's seemed alright off the course. :confused: