I'd like to qualify this by saying, yes, the piano has been drinking, again.

But...a longtime wish of mine is that the gof disc manufacturers would put precise weights on their discs. We have a little pro shop with a very accurate scale. One way we know it's accurate is that 75 percent of all the discs we weigh are within a gram, with most of them, somehow oddly, weighing more.

Anyway, If you handful of geniuses can create such beautiful discs, certainly there's adequate technology out there to weigh and indicate their weight accurately. Perfect would be the digital Ching time stamp with the person performing the weighing also listed. Make it a bit accountability thing. Make it important.

It's doubtful we'll ever weigh players' discs at our tournaments here in Massachusetts, or New England. But I'm uneasy selling discs whose weights are inaccurately indicated. A disc weighed digitally to the tenth of a gram is pretty cool, better than a 166 driver that actually weighs 168.4.

AMEN. Im sick of getting 168 sidewinders that actually weigh 171-172, as well as the 175 firebirds that I have that weigh 176-179 grams. Come on!! How can you sell illegal discs? It's just not right.

I'm curious why you weigh them? I sell a few thousand discs a year and I haven't met anyone who makes a real big deal out of their weights. They either want them light or heavy.

I'm curious why you weigh them? I sell a few thousand discs a year and I haven't met anyone who makes a real big deal out of their weights. They either want them light or heavy.



one word "Consistency".

Consistency?
Fly the same or weigh the same? Even if every disc were the same we couldn't throw the same shot with them every time.

I saw an article on Tiger Woods once that went something like this. Nike had developed some new clubs and they had Tiger Woods test them. After hitting a few balls, Tiger said he liked the heavier one of the few he tested. Nike said they were identical clubs so they weighed them. As it turned out every one was different and Tiger had picked the heaviest one. If Nike can't do it, who can.

I wonder how accurate they are in the manufacturing of golf balls.

BTW, hey Jason. How is everything?

Very good point Chris.

Hey Chris things are going pretty well. There's a lot going on all the time now.

Why do we weight them? Bunch of reasons. A lot of players want to know exactly what their discs weigh, for instance. Others want to be sure that they're legal. Once in a while someone will be looking for a weight we don't seem to have, and I'll tell him to weigh a bunch of the discs that are close to find the weight he wants. That usually works.

You weigh them for people who have to have exact weights.

What if discs were not weighed and it was left up to the buyer?

What if we tried to fix other things wrong with disc golf?

What if td's had two weeks to report their results or the venue would lose it's sanctioning for the next year? We'd have less td's but the ones left would be more responsible.

What if the tires on my corvette didn't weigh exactly the same? Would it drive off the road and crash? I don't make Tirerack.com sell me exact weight tires.

Now back to the Jason Southwick Show.

See you soon.

Consistency?
Fly the same or weigh the same? Even if every disc were the same we couldn't throw the same shot with them every time.

I saw an article on Tiger Woods once that went something like this. Nike had developed some new clubs and they had Tiger Woods test them. After hitting a few balls, Tiger said he liked the heavier one of the few he tested. Nike said they were identical clubs so they weighed them. As it turned out every one was different and Tiger had picked the heaviest one. If Nike can't do it, who can.

I wonder how accurate they are in the manufacturing of golf balls.

BTW, hey Jason. How is everything?



Have you ever thrown a monster? 172 and up is completly different from the lighter weights. my 171 star tl and 174 star tl fly very differentfrom each other.
what i'm saying is that for me and other people i know weight matters.
just cause you can't throw the same shot with the same disc doesn't mean others can't.

You would need to point the Daves of Disc Manufacturing over here, but I thought that the disc has a max weight of 8.3 grams per Centermeter. What this translates out to is that some discs can actually weight 176, 177, 178, 179... ect ect ect, but end up marked as 175 or what ever.

Using my powers of deduction and a little bit of the SWAG method, I would say that the discs are run with an overall goal weight in mind. Lets say a batch of 168 gram TLs are run. Well, some might weigh 168 minimum and on target, but some due to flashing and expanding of the mold due to heat would jump up to 171 as a high point. These would still be listed as 168 despite of the true weight as it was molded as a 168 gram TL.

Well, thats my 0.02 � or for those of you in the Japan Open � 2.29

Wts of certain plastics can change a bit after molding. Many plastics are Hygroscopic. In that thay absorb moisture (humidity, even). Its hard to controll these variables without controlling humidity and temp throughout the entire molding process. In theory, they can be weighed accurately after molding and drift after that. I work in a lab and have a scale accurate to .0001g and am fiddling with this now....

You weigh them for people who have to have exact weights.

When someone knows they want a 171 Champ T-Bird, do they want an actual 171 gm Champ T-Bird or a 173 gm Champ t-Bird that has been marked down to 171? Am I doing my customers a service or disservice if I mark discs with their actual weight?

Have you ever thrown a monster?



no

Have you ever thrown a 150 Flick? I like them. You might also.

I think this is very important!!!!!!!! It might not make much of a difference in the actual flight, but there are certain weights that just feel right in my hand. And when I buy a 168 sidewinder off the internet and it comes to my house weighing 174 grams. That is not acceptable.

All of my discs that are prior to 1994 are all dead on with the weights.

And the innova discs from the 80's, some of them are actually labeled 164.5 and they weigh 164.5.

Look at all the old midnight flyers. They are all weighed out as accurately as possible.

196.3

It's something that you would expect from the leader in disc golf sales.

I don't know how many 175 discs that I own that are overweight and ILLEGAL!!! that is a big deal. PDGA approved my #$*&$!.

I agree that the weight of a disc is important. I was very happy when my local shop got a digital scale and allowed customers to weigh their discs. I found several of mine to be off by a gram or so (not a huge deal), but I found some that were off by 4 grams and were illegal as a result. Asking manufacturers to take care in their labeling of discs should not be a big request.

This topic comes up about once every three months. I believe it is likely that The Last Boy Scount is partially wrong; his assesment was that a manufacturer aims for a "lot" of discs at a given weight and then marks all the discs in that batch at that weight and there is variation. This doesn't fit because as Jason pointed out, you don't ever see an underweight disc, they always weigh more than what they are marked as (I weigh all my discs and we are talking about a sample of approximately 500 discs with over 50% of them coming in at a higher weight than marked). That means something else is going on.

The question is, can anything be done? Don't count on it. Here is why, cost. While I don't think that TLBS is completely correct, I do think he is correct that the reason this happens is that not every disc gets weighed, a batch is done that is suppossed to weigh a certain amount and all get marked that way. This is done because to weigh each one just costs too much.

So, it can be done, if you want to add a buck to the cost of each disc you buy. Now, if Jason is willing to pay for that... :D

On the other hand, for those of us who are anal retentive, I suggest buying from a shop that has a scale. A good scale, accurate to .1 gram, is only about $100, cheap enough for a shop.

BTW - while people are going to argue this point till it's dead, if you're really worrying about the difference in flight characteristics due to a gram or even two, you're probably worrying about the wrong things. I've never heard a top Pro or even a good Advanced player mention this as an issue.

Early on I Was told to not throw max wieght plastic b/c "there was a good chance it weighed 3 -4 grams over what it said and the company just marked it 180 to not waste it"

How much does the foil in the hotstamp weigh? It can't be much, but it isn't zero either.

Maybe they weigh the discs as they come out of the mold, and then hotstamping adds some weight?

I never weigh my discs. Right now I just have a good idea that some of my discs are illegal. Why would I want to KNOW that they are illegal? I am an honest person and I would not throw them in a tourney if I KNEW that they were illegal. Ignorance is bliss, eh?

At the Japan Open this year, all the players' discs were weighed. I heard that Dave Feldberg couldn't use most of the discs that he brought over because they were overweight. I wonder if he knew beforehand that they were over?

How much does the foil in the hotstamp weigh? It can't be much, but it isn't zero either.

Maybe they weigh the discs as they come out of the mold, and then hotstamping adds some weight?



My experience has been that those which are overweight are between .5 and 1.5 grms over. In fact, I tend to define .5 as being overweight, i.e. if the disc is .4 or less overweight I tend to view it as being correct. So, If I'm looking at approximately 50% of my discs being overweight, that tells you something. Getting back to Rhett's idea, I don't know, but I doubt that a foil stamp weighs anywhere near .5 grams little alone 1.5 grams. In fact, I think if you pealed off all the flashing and the hotstamp, you're still under .5 grams. Of course, I've never done this and could be wrong. One other thing, These numbers are only applicable to max weight discs. I was not as meticulous when I was buying lower weight discs; it could be that the weights are more accurate when you are below max.

Last point, while I weigh all my discs, and I don't play anything below 174 grams, I do have and play discs between 174 and 176 grams. For me, there is no real difference over that range. I do admit, I haven't gone looking for a difference either. Generally, I try and pick a disc for the conditions I'm playing in and an overstable disc is overstable. Same goes for an understable disc. In other words, I don't try and get a hyzer by turning my disc, I choose a disc that hyzers and throw it. Many argue that you should choose a disc and get to know it and then make it do what you want it to do. Then add in a couple of extra discs for extreme conditions. I view this like ball golf, why not just buy a 3 wood and learn to do everything with it? I am developing a single throw that I try and repeat with great consistancy. Then choose different discs that do different things with that throw. Therefore, if you are one who tries to work a disc into different patterns, it might be that 1 gram makes a lot more difference to you than it does to me.

Obviously, nothing is absolute, that is, I do put hyzer, anhyzer etc. on my throws, I just don't do it in an extreme fashion, I prefer to make subtle changes to my throws and then rely on the tendancy of the disc to get the job done.

How much does the foil in the hotstamp weigh? It can't be much, but it isn't zero either.

Maybe they weigh the discs as they come out of the mold, and then hotstamping adds some weight?


The foil would weigh about 1/10 of a gram.

We have 2 digital scales and 2 triple beams and between them there could be 4 grams difference, I guess we should calibrate our scales more often.
The 2 digital scales cost nearly $400.00 each, but after weighing hundreds of thousnds of discs they can get off a little bit.

What types of scales do you guys find to be the most accurate(brand names and costs would help) and how do you calibrate and compare them?
We are always looking for a better system for quality control.

The man that owns one clock knows exactly what time it is.

How much does the foil in the hotstamp weigh? It can't be much, but it isn't zero either.

Maybe they weigh the discs as they come out of the mold, and then hotstamping adds some weight?


The foil would weigh about 1/10 of a gram.


So much for that theory. :)

How are we supposed to know as disc golfers....It's not like disc golfers all have scales

Just the ones with the heartbreak of psoriasis.

Lyle writes: "So, it can be done, if you want to add a buck to the cost of each disc you buy. Now, if Jason is willing to pay for that..."

Lyle if it costs a buck to weigh a disc I want that job. I could probably get pretty dextrous at it, with stretches where I'm doing ten every minute. I could be making $600 bucks an HOUR! I want that job. Have scale will travel. Course you could get people to do it for less than that...

Jason, your missing the point!
Could you call me I have the solution but need same backing!

Have you ever thrown a monster?



no

Have you ever thrown a 150 Flick? I like them. You might also.



I love subtle message board humor.

Click, click, Oh.....back, back...LOL! :D

Have you ever thrown a monster?



no

Have you ever thrown a 150 Flick? I like them. You might also.



I love subtle message board humor.

Click, click, Oh.....back, back...LOL! :D

It was tough not coming off as an &^%%*, i mean hysell

Maybe increase the maximum legal weight on discs to something heavier. Some players would love that, a lot of players actually. We'll have options on the Marshall Street site with 175, 176, 177, 178, 179 and maybe even 180, with a max of maybe something like 180.3. That would be my perfect disc golf world. Let the big burly guys throw heavier discs, and enforce the crap out of it, like it means something again. Golf discs still won't kill people in most cases. It doesn't seem like making them five grams heavier would make them appreciably more dangerous. It would one of those instances of adjusting the rules to accomodate reality.

This is a good idea. Lets just be honest about things and allow discs that are a little heavy rather than marking them a weight known to be false.

Hey Jason,
Today in the mail I got the discs that I ordered from you back on the 4th. When I order discs from you, you give the selection of "on the lighter-colored side" or "on the darker-colored side". Since I like my discs to be bright yellows and oranges, I go with the lighter option. Well the Teebird I got today was yellow, but the Firebird is white. So I was thinking maybe you could offer more color options, or at least define light vs dark since those terms seem to vary depending on the retailer. Not that I have anything against white, but it looks nasty when it gets dirty and I find them harder to locate compared to yellowish discs.

If gas wasnt so **** exspensive I wouldn't bother with ordering online, but the hour and 15 minute drive to your house is too exspensive. I understand if it would be too much of a pain in the butt to give more color choices, but maybe think about it if you havent already. Maybe offer choices like Light, Bright, and Dark. Bright would mostly apply to higher end plastics that arent as dull as regular DX/Pro-D plastic. Maybe I'm just being silly though, I just figured this would be a good thread bring this up on. Don't worry though, I'm still going to order from you and only you since I love paying the Massachusetts sales tax, and I have to represent NEFA.

This is a good idea. Lets just be honest about things and allow discs that are a little heavy rather than marking them a weight known to be false.


No, this would not be a good idea. If I remember correctly from reading Dave D's posts the most popular weights are the heavier ones. Therefore that's the weight they aim for more frequently. However, due to the variances due to the molding process the weights differ resulting in some discs that are to heavy. Increasing the weight limit would only mean the manufacturers would aim higher resulting in the same problem (disc too heavy). With as many discs that are being produced and weighed, i'm not sure you would be able to keep a balance calibrated properly for very long. Then again, I've worked in a research lab and we had certified technicians calibrate all of our balances once a year.

Thats why the manufacturers would aim for 175! I mean hiw many people would change to 180 when they had been throwing 175 the whole time?

This is a good idea. Lets just be honest about things and allow discs that are a little heavy rather than marking them a weight known to be false.


No, this would not be a good idea. If I remember correctly from reading Dave D's posts the most popular weights are the heavier ones. Therefore that's the weight they aim for more frequently. However, due to the variances due to the molding process the weights differ resulting in some discs that are to heavy. Increasing the weight limit would only mean the manufacturers would aim higher resulting in the same problem (disc too heavy). With as many discs that are being produced and weighed, i'm not sure you would be able to keep a balance calibrated properly for very long. Then again, I've worked in a research lab and we had certified technicians calibrate all of our balances once a year.



As mentioned earlier by Jason, and on the Gateway thread by Dave M. this allowance of slightly heavier weights would coincide with a stricter interpretation of the rule during PDGA competition that should include the weighing in of discs especially for A-tier and above. This would mean that if disc manufacturers were trying for 180 they would have to throw away all of the 181s, 182s, 183s, etc. The manufacturers are not going to be able to afford that. Therefore allowing the abberations in disc weight that occured as the manufacturers tried for 175g to retail and be used legally would solve current problems of disc weight regulation.

This is a very sticky subject, but one that I feel needs addressed vey soon
I have heard rumors where the winners discs were going to be weighed after the event and the players disqualfied down the (line until a player with no overweight discs was found.

The biggest questions would be how to enforce the rule whether it is left the same or changed.

This whole thing could really cause a nightmare for the PDGA and future TD's and add more controversy to disc golf than what already exists. But if there are rules they need to be enforced. The weight rule has been an issue since the pdga started, it was controversial all the way back in 1983 with the amf voits and super puppys, its nothing new.

Here are some facts and suggestions:

Most high end plastics are hygroscopic, meaning the material absorbs moisture even after it is made into a part. Urethanes( E,Z and CE) can absorb over 2% by wieght which could increase a 175 gram disc by 3.5grams, so there must be some sort of a tolarance if the rule is to remain the same. Discs weighed in the dry Arizona climate will weigh less than those in Florida on a really humid day.
Depending on how dry the meterial was when it was weighed and marked the weight, it will most likely be different one way or another by up to 4 grams.

I am proposing a rule change to 8.5 grams per CM which would allow a 21 CM disc to weigh 178.5, with a 2 gram tolorance.

I dont think the players are going to want to switch to 178.5 for their discs if the rule was changed to 8.5g per CM

Just giving a 4 gram tolarance would allow for the scientific aspect of the materials being hygroscopic.( it cant be avoided)

Maybe someone could make a quick poll to see what the players would like?

First of all:(only a very small percentage of discs produced ever wind up being used for pdga events) less than 5 percent!
ALL Players should be responsible for their own equipment they use for PDGA events, not the manufactures.
Weigh your own discs and double check them now and again!!


Heres the questions for the poll if some has the time, feel free to add other options.

1)
should we do nothing except enforce the rule where it stands and disqualify players who are caught using discs over wieght?

2)
Keep the rule the same, but give a 4 gram tolarance to allow for the moisture. If you are caught using discs over the 4 gram tolarance you would be disqualified from the event.

3)
Make the rule 8.5g times the diameter with a 2 gram tolarance and enforce the new rule accordingly?
4)
make the rule 200 grams for all discs with zero tolorance?

I feel the biggest challneg will be enforcing the rule, which it already is) and what to do if the rule is broken.

ALL Players should be responsible for their own equipment they use for PDGA events, not the manufactures.
Weigh your own discs and double check them now and again!!


Why should we be responsible if the disc weight's more than what the manufacture's put on the disc?

Isn't that the manufactures job, to get the right weight written on the back of the disc?

What if I was to buy a disc and it weighed more than what it is allowed, should I be out the money I paid for the disc because I can't use it because the manufacture's didn't put the right weight on it?

Dave,
You said that all high end plastics absorb moisture. Is this also true with "low end" plastics like DX?? If not - I think the effort to make "high end discs" by the nature of the material makes the product fall outside technical standards - and the only reasonable way to make them stay legal is either to make the non conforming plastic illegal, or to lower the max weight until the product under the most extreme conditions is still legal.

Ultimately, if we as an organization set technical standards for MANUFACTURERS to meet in order to have their products eligible for competition - it is up to them to release for player consumption - only products that fall within those standards.

Now - if all plastics act the same way - a wholly different solution may be needed.

I agree that we have a problem here with wrong weights. I know for a fact that most of the discs that go through my hands(which get weighed on my digital scale) are off by 1-7grams. It seems that some disc makers are better than others.

But, really if we are going to address this issue. IMO, I think we also need to address the rigid standards that are also being neglected by some disc makers that PDGA standards also require.

From my current point of view, it puts these two problems hand in hand, because the point of the discs weighing under a certain weight, and the discs rigidness both have to do with the safety of players. Right?? So, I think if we talk about one we need to talk about the other.

Anyone else share my opinion??

Absolutely. The point behind the weight requirement needs to be considered. (thread drift - I think the 150-Class Japan disc golf is a safety issue - but don't 150-Class discs fly faster and therefore the momentum at impact would be comparable?)

Why is the rule in place? Are there issues about the plastics that make the rule unreasonable / should different plastics have different max weights? Should a more rigid disc have a lower max weight?

Two questions:

1. Is this really all about safety?
2. Will my Evolution Element X really weigh more in humid Georgia than it will in arrid Vegas? (if so, how long does it take a disc to acclimate?)

As mentioned earlier by Jason, and on the Gateway thread by Dave M. this allowance of slightly heavier weights would coincide with a stricter interpretation of the rule during PDGA competition that should include the weighing in of discs especially for A-tier and above. This would mean that if disc manufacturers were trying for 180 they would have to throw away all of the 181s, 182s, 183s, etc. The manufacturers are not going to be able to afford that. Therefore allowing the abberations in disc weight that occured as the manufacturers tried for 175g to retail and be used legally would solve current problems of disc weight regulation.



Thats why the manufacturers would aim for 175! I mean hiw many people would change to 180 when they had been throwing 175 the whole time?



I think you would be supprised by how many people would switch to the heavier weights. 'Course maybe i'm wrong. As disc get heavier they fly more like projectiles rather than "fly" like a disc. Which means you can control them better. That's why a lot of players use max weight. They can control them better than the lighter weights. So if the max goes up, the players will switch.

Also, disc manufacturers aren't supposed to ship discs that are to heavy. Why adjust the rule and THEN enforce it? Why not just enforce the rule now?

I agree with Dave that this is a problem that is not easily solved, because the discs weights can fluctuate. I'm not sure it can be enforced. Unless you allowed for a 2-4gm variance, and weighed discs at the beginning or end of tournament.

I think you would be supprised by how many people would switch to the heavier weights. 'Course maybe i'm wrong. As disc get heavier they fly more like projectiles rather than "fly" like a disc. Which means you can control them better. That's why a lot of players use max weight. They can control them better than the lighter weights. So if the max goes up, the players will switch.



If the max weight went up to 180, the smart thing to do would be for manufacturers to aim for 175 still. However, it is a players choice to throw max weight. Since they choose to throw max weight, they should know that they may be using an illegal disc. It is always the players decision when it comes to what discs they want to use, if they want to use max weight discs without making sure they are all legal then it is their own fault if they use discs that are too heavy.

This idea that its up to the player to know if his discs say what is on the disc is BS!!! Not every player has a scale to weigh all his discs on, and those of us that do have scales know how expensive scales can be. How can you really put that responsibility on the player??? In fact, the thought never even crossed my mind(as a player) to weigh my discs until I got a scale for my business. I guess I just expected that these big disc manufactures had enough $$ to buy an acurate scale and weigh the discs properly. I just cant grasp the idea that anyone thinks it is our(as players) responsibility to know our discs weigh what the disc makers say they weighed. I mean what is the point of them even weighing them then, if you expect us to re-weigh them after we pay for them??? Its not like those of us that do have scales take it everwhere with us when we go buy discs. I can picture it now, player walks in with hugh scale in hand. Ask's the guy hey can I see all your "blank model discs", and then weigh every one of them until he finds the weight he wants. Imagine if all the players in the world had to buy discs like that. And what about players that dont even have the luxury of buying discs in person??? Some DG'ers are not lucky enough to have a local disc shop, or even a gas station that sells discs, what about these players, how do they weigh there discs before they buy them?? It would really suck to have to buy a bunch of max weight discs online knowing that you will only get a couple that you can use during sanctioned play. Thats all just silly in my opinion.

I know its up the the player what he/she wants to throw, but what about the players that actually want to throw exact max weight discs, not 3-6 grams heavy. I am sure at least a % of the discs came out at the proper max weight, how does the average player tell what is really max or a few grams heavy??

Here is an idea...Since I think I remember reading someone saying that only 5% of discs made are actually used for tourney use. Then, why dont the disc makers put the real actual weight on them, and sell both legal weight and overweight discs?? Then, the people that care what weight they are throwing can get exactly what they want instead of wondering if its really on or 6 grams heavy. Since only 5%(if this is an accurate #) of discs are used in tourneys then the other 95% of discs it really doesn't matter if they are a little heavy, right? Doesn't ball golf sell equipment that cannot be used during tourney play(I dont follow the sport I really dont know)???

Also, maybe my previous post got lost, but shouldn't we also be discussing the rigid standards that some disc makers are also not following??? I personally think this is a more pressing issue. If someone gets hit with a "to rigid for standards" 175g disc, I think that the extra rigidness to the disc would cause more damage than if the disc was actually 178g, and just overweight, not over rigid.

Just my .02

What if I was to buy a disc and it weighed more than what it is allowed, should I be out the money I paid for the disc because I can't use it because the manufacture's didn't put the right weight on it?



If a competitive player purchases an new overweight INNOVA disc and wishes to return it, INNOVA will replace the disc.

FYI, every single disc produced at INNOVA is weighed on a triple beam scale. Dave Dunipace has posted on the message board several times that if you want to avoid getting an overweight disc, do not purchase a max weight disc. There is much less chance that a 173 or 174 gram disc will be overweight.

Ok, what is a good scale to use to weigh discs? We have a Pitney Bowes postage scale that weighs in ounces - i.e-6.0 ounces converts to 170.09, 6.1 ounces converts to 172.9 grams; , 6.2= 175.76 and 6.3=178.60. So just one-tenth of an ounce can make a huge difference in grams and I only imagine that most scales of this type have an accuracy rating that is +/- .1 ounce. Many of the discs are 6.2 and 6.3. Any thoughts out there? What scales have the best accuracy rating and how expensive are they?

Six or seven years ago we got an electronic scale that weighs to the 10th of a gram. Back then it cost about $150. Comes with a 200-gram weight. A nickle's supposed to weigh 5 grams. I just tested a bunch of coins. A nickle weighs between 4.9 and 5.1 grams. A quarter? 5.6 or 5.7. Dimes? 2.2 or 2.3.

I'll be writing a letter to the United States Mint about this!

Then again, my 200-gram weight consistently weighs 199.9 grams on our scale. Seems pretty close. Weighed a bunch of discs, too. What certain discs weigh compared to what's indicated is occasionally shocking. The Skull blames the Bulgarians.

Still, a big majority of the discs we weighed were within a gram, so people are making an effort to be accurate about it.

They're so cheap now! http://www.scalesgalore.com/digiweigh_pocket_scales.htm#250bx

I use a digital kitchen food scale to weigh dye powder for mixing dye. I've also used it to weigh discs. It was really cheap.

It only measures in increments of 2 grams, so i tap it a couple of times and if I get 174, 176, 174 I go with 175. Mostly I'm only weighing Cystal Z because my players would like a tighter weight range what it stamped on every disc.

I've checked it against the digital deli counter scale at my grocery store. Their weights on salami and potato salad are the same as my weights at home for the same stuff, but i think there they are doing tenths of ounces and i'm translating to grams. Anyway, I'm pretty certain a lot of the stuff marked max weight by the manufacturers is over by a gram or two. None of the stuff marked at max weight ever weighed lighter!

Kelsey was doing the weighing for the last batch and I told her to write max weights for stuff we suspect is overweight. We're going with the theory that no one really cares that much so why rock this boat? :D

I use a digital kitchen food scale to weigh dye powder for mixing dye.



Right "dye" powder. That's what they all say. :p

Just my two cents but when using a triple beam scale its inevitable for the reading to be off at various times throughout the day until its recalibrated.....going digital would be so much easier.

I brought this overweight issue up a few years ago because of where I play there is a definate advantage when throwing a 179 firebird downhill into a strong headwind on a 600 foot hole.......anyway I concluded after that discussion that as long a the disc says "pdga approved" then its legal.

I dont see how anyone can hold the player responsible when the disc they buy says"pdga approved" on it. Its up to the disc companies to quality control what comes out if people actually care about enforcing the rule.
shaka :cool:

Why in this day and age dont you get the right device for measuring the weight of discs????Now that is not about money.I have said for the pdga to fine the company, that produced the discs .....It is pdga approved...Japan was a joke, for the innova players to loose thier best discs they had trained with, and other players who did the same....Measure twice cut once.Triple beam is the 8 track of measuring...Get a CD.. ;)

Actually the triple beems are more consitently accurate than the digitals, especiallly after a few thousand discs, and we have a few $300.00 digital scales, triple beams costs about $200.00, but take longer to adjust if the wieghts are varying. There is simply no way to eliminate human error or variations in weighing at the factory with machines vibrating and fans running.

Of course there are way to keep the wieghts more accurate, it could be by weighing them several times, are players prepared to pay up to $2 more for max weight discs?


I've mentioned before that the materials used for high end discs are hygroscopic.( they absorb moisture before and after manufacturing) especially after they are sitting on the shelves for a few days
A disc made and weighed in july in St Louis will weigh less in a non humid day in Arizona, by as much as 2% of the overall weight.
Actaully we weighed several discs at the factory a few days ago and them brought them home for a day in the AC.
When we weighed them again ( on the same Scale) they all weighed less by 1-4 grams.
The point is if we make a disc in december and it wieghs 175 it could weugh as much as 179 after stiing in a box on a picnic table in August on a 94% humidity day.

If the rule is to be enforced and I want it to be. there neeeds to be a tolorance or you could say good bye to max weight discs or aurely an increase in costs..

I am all for a rule and enforcing it, but there must be an increase in the weight rule to allow more 175g discs to be made without raising the costs. A increase and a tolorance allowing for the variables seems fair.

a 4 grams difference on a 175 gram disc is not really even an advatage, weight and stability are not always in direct corrilation, its the shape of the part and weight distribution.

Does anyone have a plan for enforcing the rule and what happens if a playes discs are weighed after an event and has overweight discs that he used to compete and win an event?
a 2% tolorance would make scientific sence with anyothing over 2% illegal and grounds for disqualification.

Six or seven years ago we got an electronic scale that weighs to the 10th of a gram. Back then it cost about $150. Comes with a 200-gram weight. A nickle's supposed to weigh 5 grams. I just tested a bunch of coins. A nickle weighs between 4.9 and 5.1 grams. A quarter? 5.6 or 5.7. Dimes? 2.2 or 2.3.

I'll be writing a letter to the United States Mint about this!

Then again, my 200-gram weight consistently weighs 199.9 grams on our scale. Seems pretty close. Weighed a bunch of discs, too. What certain discs weigh compared to what's indicated is occasionally shocking. The Skull blames the Bulgarians.


Still, a big majority of the discs we weighed were within a gram, so people are making an effort to be accurate about it.



Jason,
Does it get humid in new england?
Try weighing something hygroscopic, in fact reway a bunch of your discs that you weighed this winter and see if there are any changes.
Would you be in favor of a tolorance to allow for certain variables like weather conditions or calibrations of scales?

Dave,
You said that all high end plastics absorb moisture. Is this also true with "low end" plastics like DX?? If not - I think the effort to make "high end discs" by the nature of the material makes the product fall outside technical standards - and the only reasonable way to make them stay legal is either to make the non conforming plastic illegal, or to lower the max weight until the product under the most extreme conditions is still legal.

Ultimately, if we as an organization set technical standards for MANUFACTURERS to meet in order to have their products eligible for competition - it is up to them to release for player consumption - only products that fall within those standards.

Now - if all plastics act the same way - a wholly different solution may be needed.


almost all plastic is hyggroscopic, our S and almosts absorbs as much as Urethanes, which can be up to 2% by weight.
Even low end plastic like TPO's wil absorb like .5% moisture by wieght more if their are fillers in it!

So the answer is all plastics can absorb water as do the fillers used to densify the polymers.

Check the rules on golf or bowling, in both cases its up to the players at the events to have equipment that passes the tech standards.
In golf companies dont even have to send their equipment in for testing, if a player is found to use a club that falls outside the the rules he cannot use it in his bag as one of the 14. Nothing happens to the manufatcures, especially since so many players have their clubs custom built after manufacturing. They change shafts and grips and even the angle of the face of the club.
Some have even tried to change the shape of the groves to Suare is is ilgal ad it causes much more spin!

A 2% Tolrance for our sport is making the most since right now, but then we need a way to enforce it and we may need multiple scales and records of calibrations!

This is all costly for the pdga ,but something worth spending the money on.

No matter what posters on this board think each competitor will always be resposnible for thier own equipment at sanctioned events that enforce rules. Today its a mute point, but that shoud change as should the rule.

I try to throw discs around 172 so doesn't effect me much but the only way you could reallistically hold players responsible is if the events had the scales available to the players before play began. Because the statements about golf it is easier to hold golf tourney players responsible when even the worst ball golf pros (John Daly at $68,000 so far this year last I looked) makes more than even the best pro disc golfers do.

Well you could do a whole bunch of testing and figure out in what conditions disc weight varies. then adjust the rules; for instance "if weather conditions are <blank> then the weight tolerance is <blank>." Maybe this kind of study would even benfit the manufactures.

Interesting topic....it makes me think of Boxing. When a boxer trains, he is usually 10-20 lbs. over the weight class. But the days before the weigh-in, he loses all the weight. So what happens after the weigh-in. I'm sure he eats and drinks and probably gains most of the weight back. Sorry for the thread drift, just had to share the analogous situation.