Ok. This came up yesterday during a practice round.

Player "A" is farthest from the basket. As he tries to assume a stance, player "B"'s disc is right where he wants to place his foot for a straddle putt. After trying several different stances, he decides to ask player "B" to mark his lie with his mini so there is more room for his foot. Player "B" says, "I want to play from where my disc is, not further up. If I mark my lie with my mini, may I replace my disc after player "A" is done throwing?" They both were behind a tree, so the extra few inches back would benefit player "B". So, is player "B" allowed to mark his lie with his mini to allow player "A" an unhindered stance, and then replace his disc when it is his turn?

Why couldn't player B play first to be simple about it? (Speed of play allows this.) Second, since discs on the ground fall into the category of "objects that came into position on the course during the round," a player may have them moved. The disc also could be considered other player's equipment that can be moved per Interference rule 803.07A&B. So, yes, you could mark the lie with a mini and then replace it with the disc before B makes the putt.

In a common sense use of the rules, yes this should work.

By exact wording of the rules: No, you can't.


803.03 - Marking the lie
A. After each throw, the thrown disc must be left where it came to rest until the lie is established by the placing of a marker. This can be done by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface between the hole and the disc, directly in line with the hole, on the line of play, touching the thrown disc. A player may instead choose, without touching or repositioning the thrown disc, to use the thrown disc as the marker. The marker may not be moved until the throw is released. A marker inadvertently moved prior to the throw shall be returned to its correct location



You are not allowed to touch the disc at rest if you intend to use it as a marker. This is of course unreasonable since you must be allowed to touch the disc to positively verify that it is your disc and not a similar one.

The way the rule reads, you have the option of how a lie is established, but once a lie is established you are stuck with it.

The best solution in this case would be to allow player B to putt first, if he is agreeable to it. Speed of play rules allow, but do not require, a player who is not the away player to throw first.

If you are not allowed to change your lie once established by either placing a mini marker or choosing to use the thrown disc, what exactly signifies choosing to use the thrown disc ? I have often seen players address the next shot from behind their previously thrown disc, and then decide to place a mini marker instead. This seems like a decision to use the thrown disc (thus establishing a lie), and then changing that lie by placing a mini marker. If this is legal, then the reverse should be legal as well.

But the current wording of the rule fobids moving the thrown disc and then going back to it.

Ok. This came up yesterday during a practice round.

Player "A" is farthest from the basket. As he tries to assume a stance, player "B"'s disc is right where he wants to place his foot for a straddle putt. After trying several different stances, he decides to ask player "B" to mark his lie with his mini so there is more room for his foot. Player "B" says, "I want to play from where my disc is, not further up. If I mark my lie with my mini, may I replace my disc after player "A" is done throwing?" They both were behind a tree, so the extra few inches back would benefit player "B". So, is player "B" allowed to mark his lie with his mini to allow player "A" an unhindered stance, and then replace his disc when it is his turn?



I would have to agree with Gary. The rule states that it may not be moved except to verify and then to mark the lie. I would ask Player B to play ahead. If Player B chose not to, I think that a curtosy warning could be issued since the player chose not to move his equipment.

Would you be in danger of getting an interference or courtesy call for stepping on his disc after he refused to play it or move it ?

If you are not allowed to change your lie once established by either placing a mini marker or choosing to use the thrown disc, what exactly signifies choosing to use the thrown disc ? I have often seen players address the next shot from behind their previously thrown disc, and then decide to place a mini marker instead. This seems like a decision to use the thrown disc (thus establishing a lie), and then changing that lie by placing a mini marker.



I am not sure about establishing the lie and then changing your mind. I would argue that the lie is not established until you either mark your disc with a mini and move it or you have thrown from behind the disc itself. Does that make sense?

That all sounds about right. I think a player should be able to move their equipment out of another player's way, and then replace it to make their shot.

I know in PGA tournaments, a player can relocate their spot (marker) on the green, at the request of a player whose putt is intending to travel over that spot, and then replace it after the away player putts. Even though our game is somewhat different than ball golf, there are some situations that do transfer over to Disc Golf.

If you are not allowed to change your lie once established by either placing a mini marker or choosing to use the thrown disc, what exactly signifies choosing to use the thrown disc ? I have often seen players address the next shot from behind their previously thrown disc, and then decide to place a mini marker instead. This seems like a decision to use the thrown disc (thus establishing a lie), and then changing that lie by placing a mini marker.



I am not sure about establishing the lie and then changing your mind. I would argue that the lie is not established until you either mark your disc with a mini and move it or you have thrown from behind the disc itself. Does that make sense?



It is certainly how it is played.

That all sounds about right. I think a player should be able to move their equipment out of another player's way, and then replace it to make their shot.



It just reminds me of the casual obstacle rules. A player is allowed to move a casual obstacle behind his mark as long as it does not cause him to break another rule. In the case of casual obstacles, it was not being able to move anything between the lie and the target. So a casual obstacle that is in your stance and also between the lie and the target can't be moved.

This seems to be the same situation. Though a player can normally move his equipment, moving a disc in play other than to identify it, is not allowed. Well, with the exception of replacing a disc that was at rest and moved.

Once it is marked with a mini marker, it is no longer in play and may be moved, but the rules don't seem to allow for it to be replaced and used as a marker.

It is unlikely that you would ever be called for it, and also unlikely that a TD would uphold the penalty if it was appealed.

How does bg deal with this? I know how they deal with it on the putting green, but what about else where?

I agree John. The rules have to be read and known as a whole, not in isolation. For this situation, I feel that the proper thing to do is to read 803.03 (marking the lie) in conjunction with 803.05 (relief from obstacles including players equipment). Even though it's a disc in play and should be treated as such, it's also some player's equipment and that should be taken into account in making the ruling.

I think the likelyhood of that happening on the fairway on a ball golf course is not likely....

Rule 22 in the USGA rulebook allows balls interfering with play to be "lifted." In on the green, they can be cleaned. If on the fairway, the lifted ball can't be cleaned.

Based on the stance rules, if player B's disc is in the way for a straddle putt, then player B's 'lie' (perhaps by choice of not marking the disc) is the one that is actually out. Either that or player A is committing a stance violation.

Am I missing something?

That all sounds about right. I think a player should be able to move their equipment out of another player's way, and then replace it to make their shot.

I know in PGA tournaments, a player can relocate their spot (marker) on the green, at the request of a player whose putt is intending to travel over that spot, and then replace it after the away player putts. Even though our game is somewhat different than ball golf, there are some situations that do transfer over to Disc Golf.


I'm not a ball golfer - but it would seem that any type of flat marker placed on a putting green 'could' potentially interfere with another players putt...?

In DG - Being allowed to examine the terrain under my disc sounds reasonable (not according to the rules, though) because there could be undesireable tree roots/etc making for an instance where marking my lie with a mini is strategically bypassed... Seems like a lil rules-wording tweaking could/should happen here. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Just tell Kyle to throw that left-handed junk first! :D

You could take a provisional mark! :D

You can't stand on your own marker, but you can stand on the other player's.

DG needs to adopt the rule that BG uses for putting; move the marker one or two disc widths on a particular line away from other player's foot.

Those dang LEFTIES!! ;) It's got to be a counter-spin kind of thing!

Of course Player "B" could throw first, to make things simple :p, but in a situation where one throw could make a difference in Player "B"'s payout (or even perhaps in a match play situation), he might elect to have Player "A" throw first to put a little extra pressure (gamesmanship) on "A"'s putt. If it is allowable to move and replace a disc, should a mini marker be used, or some other type of marker?

This is the first instance I've seen of this in my 20+ years of Disc Golf, but it is a legitmate situation and needs to be addressed. Ball Golf used to have the "Stymie" in effect, and the rules have been modified over the years to take care of these types of rare incidents.

Golf is a centuries old game. Disc golf is less than 0.33 centuries. I'm sure this situation will eventually get codified into the rules somehow. :D

I think if you asked your Rabbi or your lawyer, he would might agree that the thrower of the disc cannot mark and move the disc if he wants to play from behind the disc because of the express language of the rule quoted. However, the player for whom it is a hindrance could mark it and move it for purposes of identification, make his throw, complete his identification, and then return it to where it belongs. :D

No can do....

803.7 C. C. Any player who ... consciously moves or obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.

I still think the best policy is to let the forward player playout. I also don't think it is a big deal to mark, move and replace, but I would get a group majority approval first. This does appear to be at odds with the rules though.



I think if you asked your Rabbi or your lawyer, he would might agree that the thrower of the disc cannot mark and move the disc if he wants to play from behind the disc because of the express language of the rule quoted. However, the player for whom it is a hindrance could mark it and move it for purposes of identification, make his throw, complete his identification, and then return it to where it belongs. :D

:D Don't move your Disc. I still see players do the approx. thing.

you could just pick it up and claim that you were trying to identify it and hold on to it and throw your shot, obviously replacing it afterward.