I have to say I must be depraved in New England. I have been told that I have a pretty good arm, and this weekend I birdied a couple holes well over 400', but apparently 400' is the distance that people in the rec divisions average. One of my favorite Disc sites since I started playing is discgolfreview.com. The reviews by blake and the tecnique analysis are very good but I have been noticing a trend on that site which has gotten me thinking that I have the weeniest of weenie arms. Here are a few quotes:

1)Posted 05-27-06
Submitted by Kelly S [email protected]
Level: Adv. Am
Avg Drive: 450
Disc Weights: 164-166
Review: This is a great disc!! If you throw with a lot of snap, you should get a lighter disc, because you can do a hyser flip turn. Since it is a fast disc, you dont want a heavy weight.

2)Posted 11-21-05
Submitted by Anonymous Disc Weights: 168
Review: I used to throw heavy firebirds and lighter Teebird's, I bought two CFR Wraiths from marshall street. I'm an advanced RHBH thrower with lots of power, I've driven Valks, Eagles, Orc's, Beast's all over five hundred feet but I recenttly threw my CFR Wraith ( Downhill ) close to 900 ft, You can get the INNOVA rep out here if you dont believe it we used a rangfinder to target the basket at around 875 ft and I was at least twenty or thirty feet behind it. One word of advice, most pro's through new DX plastic every game because a new disk obvously has a lover drag co efficant and is natraully more understable than a worn in pro or champ. My freind has already beat the POP out of two pro wriaths, it goes so fast and is so sticky that it almost destroys itself hitting trees. Also these worn in Pro Wraiths seen to be conversely to what me and the rest of the folf world thinks become less stable, so If you don't want a super fast long firebird, buy a pro wraith and throw it the trees for about a month and you'll have just what you want, otherwise pony up the dough for the CFR Wraith.

These are just two of the bigger offenders but there are a bunch who are just as bad. I've had the fortunate opportunity of living near steve brinster one of the few people on earth who have a 500' golf shot and have played casually with avery jenkins, dave feldberg, and a couple other big arms. These people have gigantic arms, and they're average drive would be between 450-500. So to say that you as adv am have an average drive which means a golf shot not a gigantic 40mph tailwind shot with no regards to accuracy. So either I'm getting discs that are defective (ie. every disc I've thrown) or theres a little embellishment on this site. To those who have lied on the site, please clean it up, some people use the site for accurate reviews.

can u imagine a fishing site with talk about how big someof the fish people have caught were and how big were the ones that got away? :eek:

or maybe a site for guys to brag about how great they are a satisfying their mates :eek:

embellishment is the human condition /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

some of those examples you posted are quite entertaining :D

I post and read on DGR and I throw a 400 foot shot with a flat line drive shot. This is the shot I prefer most often. When I have the chance to flex a shot I have hit 450 consistantly and 460+ rarely. Accuracy at that distance is withing 50 to 75 feet at best the majority of the time.

Most pros drive 400 feet accurately. Any distance beyond that is either an all out effort and lucky when it hits near the target, or in a general "lay-up" area. For all out distance they throw the 360 spin drive.

You dont have a weenie arm, and sure, peeps tend to not know what they are throwing accurately at distance wise, but if you were to take a GPS system and measure these holes that they are claiming to judge distance on, you would find that they are all off. Most courses use a peter meter, or a wheel meter to find hole distances. These are innaccurate.

While you may be hitting 400, are you flexing the disc out in an s curve? if so, step it up and start going for the flat shot. Then peeps will know you have what it takes.

Throwing 450'+ doesn't take nearly as much skill as throwing 350' with accuracy and most people add 50' or so feet on message boards (I don't believe most of the stuff some of these people write on here). I would much rather have a good mid-range game and a good putt than be able to crush 500'+. Most people don't realize that distance will come with time, as your technique improves so will distance, its far more important to drive tight fairways < 350' with a lot of accuracy than it is to park that wide-open 500' hole. One of the best golfers I know rarely throws over 400' but his putt and accuracy are amazing.

Will, I played with you, you are far from a weenie arm.

it sounds like you and i have about the same Distance, and i am sure you've noticed we out-throw most Am.s . the tendency when citing distance is to use rolled distances listed on tee-signs and to ignore elevation changes (throwing downhill).

if everyone cited their real distance (flat land laser measured) things would be more believable. it sounds so cool to say i parked my Pro Orc pin high and 25 feet left of a 519 foot hole (Banklick old 18) but in reality that was a downhill shot so it doesn't really count...

I have parked a 666 foot hole in the air with a buzz

total elevation is -75

i know who the SNL Church Lady would say helped you park a hole of that length... :D

I was 40 ft long on the 18th hole at Hyland. Its straight downhill. Big Wow.

Whenever I post a review of discgolfreview.com, I'm never sure what to put for Average Drive. My average drive on the golf course? The max distance I throw? The average distance I can throw with that disc?

Sure, my max drive may be 400+, but that's not my average drive -- most courses aren't that long. If I'm reviewing a putter, am I going to put my max driver distance?

I think Blake should do away with that question on the Submit a Review form, because it really just makes me doubt anything the reviewer says if I see a 450-500 on there, but they can't spell 'overstable.'

because it really just makes me doubt anything the reviewer says if I see a 450-500 on there, but they can't spell 'overstable.'



That's pretty much my thoughts, too.

If someone writes:


most <font color="blue">pro's</font><font color="red"> through </font> new DX plastic every game




because a new <font color="green">disk </font> <font color="blue">obvously </font> has a lover drag co <font color="red">efficant </font> and is <font color="blue">natraully </font> more understable




and the rest of the <font color="green">folf </font> world thinks become less stable



I'm pretty much going to ignore everything they say.

I was 40 ft long on the 18th hole at Hyland. Its straight downhill. Big Wow.



Could it be Satan?

LOL. I always try to play with people better than me whenever I can. The people who taught me how to play throw 400 easy and I learned from them. Biggest thing I found one day after playing 4 different courses was by the time I hit the 5th course, I was dog tired, and not trying to power my drives. Big surprise when I do a slow walk up and still manage to crush it further than I had all day long.

I managed to play in Chase's group at the Bowling Green Ams, and I have practiced my rear end off since then. I have added about 50 feet since then and added a really nice backhand and flick roller to my repetoire as well.

With school being out for most of the country, go find a nice football field and just practice throwing. I practice rollers in an elementary school's yard that has grass about 5 inches high and still manage 450 feet on average. Once i learned to quit playing rounds and start playing one shot repeatitively it was awesome.

Just wait for the DGR videos to come out. Those should rock, and you will get footage of Schweberger on there too throwing the max D.

Only reason for a Big Arm is if you play on an open course like I do. Most shots are in the 350 - 400+ range so i need if for the duece. Get me in the woods and I really have to focus and shave alot of power off. The Vapor Trail will be a big test to see how much I have improved in the woods.

If someone writes:


most <font color="blue">pro's</font><font color="red"> through </font> new DX plastic every game


Usually depends on the course and conditions of play...


because a new <font color="green">disk </font> <font color="blue">obvously </font> has a lover drag co <font color="red">efficant </font> and is <font color="blue">natraully </font> more understable


Lower drag = less friction = more stability or behaving as a more overstable disc. Take a DX, PRO, CHAMP, and STAR disc of the same mold out and see what happens. Wraith is a great example for this experiment. DX most flippy with Star being the most stable.


and the rest of the <font color="green">folf </font> world thinks become less stable


Should I let the mass idiotes as the Greek would have put it, dictate physics to me? Best physics paper I have read is from the Discwing site, where the founder, Johnny Potts, did his final thesis paper on flying wing (british for disc?) aerodynamics. Also, read the article on tuning an aerobie epic. Explains how a rim angle and dome can affect flight characteristics.

I'm pretty much going to ignore everything they say. ( You really should unless it is from a great trustworthy source.)

Most pros drive 400 feet accurately.
<font color="red"> this is true </font>

Any distance beyond that is either an all out effort and lucky when it hits near the target, or in a general "lay-up" area.
<font color="red"> really? lucky? a 425 hyzer that lands 15' from the basket down a fairly wide open fairwayis luck? not hardly,
down a tight wooded S-curving fairway, then you are probably correct
</font>

For all out distance they throw the 360 spin drive.

<font color="red"> they do? never seen any pro 360 in a competitive round of disc golf, if you are refering to distance contests, yeah some do it but most I've seen throw a regular backhand drive </font>

Most people have no idea about how far they can throw. A lot of it has to do with the fact that they are measuring with peter distances, very few people have actually competed in a distance contest.

In my latest distance contest I was measured at 459ft on purely flat ground. At the lastest tournament I went to (KC Wide Open) and I was amongst the longest throwers there, Brinster, Coda, and Devan Owens (Advanced player from Tulsa) were the only people throwing marginally farther then me.

But obviously if you look at my stats, throwing far does not matter much when your short game falters. Distance is only one of the many components needed to be a successful disc golfer, and it is probably the most expendable too. I know many regularly cashing pros who cannot throw much over 400ft max-D but their short game and putting are extraordinary. Putting a 500ft tee shot within 150ft of the basket means diddly if you leave the approach 50ft short and miss the long putt. Obviously broken down, on a 650ft hole, it would be wiser to throw two accurate 325ft shots instead of bombing a big drive.

Plus, with all these rec players saying that they are throwing 400ft which they are drastically mistaken, they are very amazed and even wowed when I pull off a 400ft+ drive. Heck even when you can throw far, seeing a disc fly over 400ft is pretty sweet anyway.

Technique will get you 400ft
Power will push you towards 500ft
Luck is anything over 500ft, because after that distance it is required that you catch the wind just right with optimal timing.

Tru Dat! Its amazing to see that 400 foot drive, and knowing that they only have the 50 foot layup for the Par versus the very precise 300 foot drive followed by the 150 foot layup. What it all boils down to is accuracy, and the chance at hitting the bird from a closer range. Is it feasible to have this ability? Sure when the situation calls for it, but if you dont have the short game to back up that long drive, there is no sense in having it in the first place.

If you make a 3 on a 1,100 foot hole is that still a par? :confused:

Back on topic.
I've read most of the reviews for Gateway discs at disc golf review.
I feel that most people are fairly knowledgable about the discs and somewhat accurate.
One thing about the reviews is that it shows how discs perform differantly for differnt players.
If I'm trying to gauge someones power, I ask them how far they throw thier putters.
This is probably a much more accurate measuremaent for ones power.
We will hopefully have a few flight charts for our discs one day based on putter power.

Even speed cannot be a good barometer of D, as a player with 65 mph and off axis rotation probably cannot throw as far as a player with only 50 that is silky smooth.

Ive been test flying runs of our discs pretty often over the last 8 or 9 years and have a wide method of testing, from speeds to heights, from Hyzer release to reverse.
Most of the time I give a player a stack of discs to test fly they try to throw the same trajectory and release angle for all of the discs, not very many players really know how to test fly and cross examine shots using a range of throws.
In fact most players can barely come close to repeating their own throw for a stack of discs.

My partner at Gateway-Quest is trying to develop a robotic arm for testing discs, When perfected ( if possible) it should help anylize discs flight characteristics a lot better than random guys with random testing methods.

For now I believe disc golf review should be used for reading entertainment or a start for choosing new discs.
Unless you know the person with the review yourself, I wouldnt take 100% stock in anything you read.( have you ever heard about a good movie only to see it yourself and find out you didnt like it or the other way around?)



Has anyone ever read what Aerobie says about their new sharpshooter series of discs?
Their new discs do not fly even close to what it says on their packaging and thats coming from them.
I was seriously dissapointed in what a multi million dollar company like aerobie would put in the market place( basically discs with false advertisment!!!)
I was really hoping they would make competion golf discs to help chip away at the big boy.
I doubt that if someone buys the set and loses their number 1,2 or 3 they look very hard to replace it.

Does anyone know who test flies aerobies prototype discs before production? :mad::mad:

What's the current world record for distance driving?

homeboy should call Guiness Book of World Record and try that again!!

BTW, I can bomb a beat roc down the ski hill 800'+, so maybe I should call Guiness...or have another guiness!!! :eek:

HEY NOW! If you ever need a disc that you know you can shank on an anhyzer line everytime, choose the aerobie line!

If you make a 3 on a 1,100 foot hole is that still a par? :confused:



Unless there is a serious drop in elevation with a wide open (greater then 200ft wide) fairway, not even the biggest arms can reach this hole in two. No matter what the foilage, it would be a tough call to say anything over 550ft is a par 3.

I would use as a good average golf drive distance for a professional player as 400-425ft. Not many players can really throw that far, only pros and advanced players who should be pro can throw that far. I would be happy taking a 4 on that hole if it was level and open, it would take two of my longest throws ever to actually be pin high.

Sorry to stray off topic, but the quoted post was off too.


For one, I don't even really trust fully what people post on here as far as disc reviews. There are a few people who know there stuff, but no one can really tell how much power the people have. I know and have played with people whose power to snap ration is so wacked that they over power the disc and use brand new Tee Rexes as turn over discs, and Firebirds for straight discs.

But at the same time, if you have thrown a disc someone is talking about (and actually know what on earth you are doing) then it is simple to filter out peoples mechanical problems.