I am just curious as to what kind of putters are preferred?

do you prefer hard or soft putters? and what is your favorite brand?

or do you let the wind or other weather conditions determine?

/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif That's really easy.

I have been using a Aviar for over 20 years.

You can't beat it. It may be copied by others , but why ? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................................. ..
maybe because it's the best designed putter.

I use a Aviar X now.
Kinda medium soft version.
Reason : Softer putters tend to stick in the chains better than stiffer putters and don't slide through or bounce out as often.
Also really depends on the putting style of the person releasing the disc with a certain amount of spin. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

My opinion and fully recommended !!!!!!

Innova is number one for a reason. Currently , the Aviar comes in atleast 5 different kinds of plastic runs.

The Aviar , does have some interesting copies out there.

Discraft makes two kinds : The Challenger and the Magnet.
Both of these are stable to slightly overstable. In Different kinds of plastic.

I think Lightning had a Upshot version or APX or Airplane type of putter in different kinds of plastic. C2 flydye or something. Newest version , feels like a shallow rimmed Aviar.

Gateway makes the Wizard. Different kinds of plastic.
Flys dead straight.

Latitude 64 makes the Sinus AP and softer version SP.
Super dead stable. Has 3 grip pads around the top flight plate.

Millenium (Millennium ) makes a AP and Soft version of a Aviar like mold. Stable.

Destiny Disc's use to make the JetEye.

And a Taller version of a Aviar like disc , the puppy.

Now................

Even Whamo has a Aviar like disc. The touchline or trueline series.

I'm sure I may have missed a few ......................

I have putted all of these too by the way. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I'm still putting the Aviar X.
Two in my bag. A Beat 174gram White and a fairly new Blue 173gram. I can do alot of stunt putting with both of these discs.
http://discgolfvalues.com/store/images/5xJK300.jpg

I carry 3 putters:

168 'Soft' Wizard for light wind or a tail wind. My go-to putter.
172 'Medium' Wizard for long hyzer putts or upshots. Also for drives, short flicks, basically anything inside 200 feet that doesn't need to skip.
175 First Run Black Banger-GT For headwinds. This disc has no float, so it flies like a normal putter into even the stiffest of headwinds. I also use this for utility putts that have to get up and down in a hurry.

RHYNOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My main putter is the soft pro rhyno (166g). When it touches anything it dies instantly. It doesn't skip/slide at all, it just sticks. Its super stable and very consistent. I can do anyhyzer, hyzer and flat putts and it floats really nicely.

I also have a dx and champ rhyno, it like the dx for short-med approaches. the champ i'm not really liking but then again i don't really like champ plastic anything anymore waiting for the star rhynos, w00t.

I have putted with many and almost any putter out there is the same as another.
I used to play with an avair and a wizard. when my original avair went past the beat in stage and became to beat i couldn'y keep consistent with it but it was a amazing putter until then. the wizard was good but there ended up being too many things that kept agitating me. it didn't have the greatest amount of glide and on approaches i would either end up way short or way long but about 15% of the time i would cash the really long putts.

http://discgolfvalues.com/store/images/5xJK300.jpg

i prefer 3x's with blue or green hotstamps at 171-175g.
anyone have any new or used they want to trade PM me. i might have something you'd like that i could trade you for it...
(including other hot-stamp colored 3x Aviar-x's)

Rhynos!!! All other putters might as well be used for doggie water bowls.

Rhynos!!! All other putters might as well be used for doggie water bowls.



how many World Championships and USDGC's have been won by Aviars as compared to Rhynos? :eek: :D

I am the only person who I have ever met who putts with a Pro Aviar. Not a JK or KC but a Pro. Nothing else feels right in my hand and I don't putt hard so most of my putts that should stay do.

I like the Pro Aviar for driving and playing in the desert , where the temps. are 105 +

You are right though. The Exact putter HAS to feel perfect for the person using it !!!!!

I'm still putting the Aviar X.
Two in my bag. A Beat 174gram White and a fairly new Blue 173gram. I can do alot of stunt putting with both of these discs.
http://discgolfvalues.com/store/images/5xJK300.jpg

I have a couple 3x , 4x and some of the more recent runs.

Most of mine purchased at Discovering the World.

www.dtworld.com (http://www.dtworld.com)

http://www.dtworld.com/category_s/14.htm

Wizard...it's got a little "magic" in it... ;)

Hey Joe!
Can you put a big Picture of the Wizard in this thread?

Just kidding :D

Rhynos!!! All other putters might as well be used for doggie water bowls.



how many World Championships and USDGC's have been won by Aviars as compared to Rhynos? :eek: :D



How long has the rhyno been around compared to avairs? (idk)
I suspect that the avair has probably been around way longer.

If it has been around longer most of the top guys have been around for about that long too. And you play with what you know best.

Innova is number one for a reason.



20+ years of manufacturing with several hundreds of thousands spent in legal battles to keep other manufacturers out of the business will do that :eek:

Competition drives innovation, I think it is great for the players and the game for new manufacturers to get in on the game, I can not wait to see disc golf available at wal-mart and target,and all the big box sporting good stores...

And to answer the post

http://wrightlife.com/images/large/3994-soft-large.jpg

Rhynos!!! All other putters might as well be used for doggie water bowls.



how many World Championships and USDGC's have been won by Aviars as compared to Rhynos? :eek: :D



how many WC or USDGC have been won by people who throw wizards???? :confused: :eek: ;)

Most of the guys who've won WC could have putted with just about any putter and still won.

I like rhyno's because you don't have to change the way you putt in the wind.

Every putter mentioned was derived from the Aviar, and they all are a bit different to cater to different individuals preferences. The P&A has effortless glide and a predictable finish, the absolute best disc to put in a beginner's hands. The more stable versions of the mold seem to be preferred by more advanced players in my experience due probably to predictability in the wind and a longer break-in period. The Rhyno is faster and more overstable than the overstable versions of the Aviar and flies lower to the ground. Line drive putting styles seem to cater to the Rhyno's characteristics and most people using them putt with a lot of spin and snap. This produces a consistent putt across wind conditions, but you better be good because misses travel further away than Aviar misses, and bounce outs are going to happen more often due to more speed and less glide on the flight. I putt with a Wizard (med/soft) because it has the slow speed and glide of the Aviar with the straight line stability of a Rhyno, with less low speed fade than either. I also prefer the plastic in terms of grip and durability. All are great putters (As are the Discraft clones), to each his own!

I have been in love with Aviars for all of my disc golf life, but over the last year I have had a torrid and satisfying affair with <font color="red"> Soft Wizards</font> . They are the best puTTer my fingers have ever touched...in that way.

Lets see, Jay reading won the worlds putting Chamionpionships, Justin Kerr won the worlds in Advanced, Devan Owens Won Jr worlds last year, Matt hall won Mid nationals, all using the Wizard. ( I think there are others, but they remain anonymous because or possible persecution)

Our Sposnored TEAM Players have won NT events, Many A-Tiers and countless other events using the wizard.
Ask most top pro's ( if you know any) and they will tell you, if they werent sponsored they would throw the Wizard!

Lets see donkey, I'm pretty sure most of the people who beat you in St Louis last month were using the Wizard.

You and the rest of the disc golf world shoot your selves in the foot evry time you criticise Gateway, Discraft, Dga and lightning) and continue to hold back disc golf by not embracing existing or new companies and their products.

This industry needs 20 disc manufacturing companies in order for it to ever go anywhere serious!

Do you feel disc golf should be bigger by now?

Do you want to see a lot more courses go in the ground?

Do you want to see disc golf on TV?

Do you think players should be playing for more money?

In case you are too blinded by the innova light, the biggest reason disc golf isnt huge by know, is mainly due to lack of competition in the industry.
When one company has a 90% ( Market Share) monopoly in any industry its never good for the consumer!!
Take our $20 million dollar industry and divided it into 5 compaines that all do $4 million each and what do you think happens?

It's nice to be loyal to your god ( company) and if your relegion( hating on other companies) doesnt allow you to worship any other gods( Support other Companies) thats great for you, but not for the rest of the world.

These hard core innova supporters are worse than Jahovas witness or Har Chirshnas and even Islamic fundamentalists!
( well That may have went to far, but you get the point!)

OPEN YOUR EYES and your mind might follow!

:confused: :D

Innova is number one for a reason.



20+ years of manufacturing with several hundreds of thousands spent in legal battles to keep other manufacturers out of the business will do that :eek:

Competition drives innovation, I think it is great for the players and the game for new manufacturers to get in on the game, I can not wait to see disc golf available at wal-mart and target,and all the big box sporting good stores...

And to answer the post

http://wrightlife.com/images/large/3994-soft-large.jpg

Wal-Mart sell's disc here in Oklahoma.

My Putter History

(In chronological order)
150 Aviar
#2 Upshot
Rhyno
Aviar
Supersoft
Challenger
Swirl
Wizard
Aviar
JK Aviar

That being said, my favorite putter is the Wizard. The only problem I've had with the Wizard is the overstable finish. During practice, I have no problem using Wizards. However, during tournament rounds I notice I putt much more cautiously. As a result, i'm not releasing the putter confidently, which leads to a weak putt. I've found the aviar P&A will mask this occurence during the tournament round, and finish straighter.

BTW... this is my biggest issue right now. I need to practice putting more often.

Ridiculously soft JK Aviar. The floppier, the better.

I Have used many and the my favorite three are:

Gateway Odyssey Putter (in one word AWESOME! Holds whatever line you give it from 10' out to 200'+. I can drive to over 230' with this putter and with enough spin it will hold my angle till it hits the ground or chains. Say what you want. Give it a try and you'll see what I'm saying)

Discraft Challenger Elite X-Soft (slightly overstable great upwind, and for hyzer approaches. If it's windy as hell my Challenger gets used)

Discraft Putt'R Elite X-Soft (floaty and rocks downwind, awesome for anny approaches)

For you Innova-drones out there hovering over the reply button: I started with an Aviar DX (glow), moved to champ when I actually started using it for more than chain taps, tried the xd, rhyno, roc, and etc etc etc. I've also tried and liked the Banger-GT but it beat and lost stability too fast. I suspect the groove top was to blame as it seems to weaken flight plate rigidity. Loved the Putt'r for it's drop and stay putt, but when it gets windy it gets unpredictable. I replaced the Putt'r with a Challenger untill I recieved the Odyssey.

Dave M Great work on the Odyssey!

Champion Viper,

Everything else turns over before it gets to the basket.

Aviars are the best putters I have ever putted with. I have always used the small beads instead of the big beads because they feel more comfortable to me than the big beads and I have a better grip.

Every putter mentioned was derived from the Aviar


That is silly. You could also say every putter mentioned was derived from the Pluto Platter. The Rhyno is a pretty significant departure from the Aviar IMO.

And as for everyone copying the Aviar, there were Aviar-like discs out prior to the Aviar, XD for instance. I'm not saying they all throw the same, but there are only so many ways to build an 8 inch diameter, 3/4 inch deep flat top disc.

Oh, and I am an avowed Rhyno thrower for all approach and putting duties. I used to throw Aviar knockoff Omega AP, but the Rhyno is money once you adjust your throw to it.

Not ranting, just raving.

Post deleted by donkey_nation

There are only two putters that I feel comfortable with..

Soft Challengers
Soft Wizards

Never have been a fan of aviars.. I did use the SE Rhyno's for a while but they don't get enough glide for me.

Good grief, Colin...you must be really ticked off?

At Bowling Green AM Dave Mac stayed in the hotel room next to mine and I have to say that Dave Mac is a great ambassador to the sport. I'm not sure why he made you so mad but I don't think he deserves this much criticism.

mc

I have been reading this post the past couple of days and it has made me realize how defensive disc golfers are when it comes to the putter, and company they use. The fact that disc golfers will put down other disc golfers b/c of what they have in their bag really pisses me off.

I use Aviars for all my putt and approach shots. I dont use them b/c they are made by Innova, I use them b/c they feel the best in my hand. Most of the pros here in New England putt with Wizards, and these pros have taught me a lot about the game but I didn't let them decide what I should use.

My bag is made up mostly of Innova because that is what I feel comfortable with. I have a few Discraft discs that I use but when I buy new discs, I go for Innova because I know that they will work. Give me a chance to try a disc from any other company before I buy it and I will buy it if I like it. Since I have to order online mostly, I'm going to stick with what works. The one Gateway disc I have is a chief that I got as a prize. I know players that like the chief because it is like a Wizard, but more for approach shots. Compared to my other approach discs(KC Pro Aviar), I dont feel as comfortable with it on long approach shots(i.e. 150+ feet).

When I see disc golfers putting down Innova whores or anyone else that uses strictly one company, do they know why that person uses that company? I dont believe that Innova makes the best discs out there. Not one company makes the best discs. I believe that Innova makes the best disc for me, and my style of play.

Tom at the borderland spring fling I invited anyone who wanted to throw anything in my bag to do so, most pros will, dont expect to throw a 2001 roc or something that cant really be replaced, but I know I have an 02 ce roc I'll let anyone try out. In an open field there is no real chance of harm coming to it. Most of the guys in NE will let you throw something in their bag and I know a ton of people all around will let you try something out of their bag just ask, and flattery helps when you ask, ie. wow you bombed that can I try it. Just ask, and you will recieve. My next tourney near you is ghdgo, feel free to try anything I have with me.

I'm all about the Cam Todd Challenegers. The new version, not the older one. The main reason that I stick with a stiff putter is that there are times when your putter sits for a few minutes in the sun while you wait for your group. Soft putters (especially the black P&A's) completely change while softening up. I've picked up a soft putter from the sun and had it sink in my hands! My stiffy's will always feel close to the same no matter what the weather.

That being said, when will someone make an octagon shaped putter? Or something with edges? After AmNat's last year, BOY! Do those CT challengers like to roll!

Tom at the borderland spring fling I invited anyone who wanted to throw anything in my bag to do so, most pros will, dont expect to throw a 2001 roc or something that cant really be replaced, but I know I have an 02 ce roc I'll let anyone try out. In an open field there is no real chance of harm coming to it. Most of the guys in NE will let you throw something in their bag and I know a ton of people all around will let you try something out of their bag just ask, and flattery helps when you ask, ie. wow you bombed that can I try it. Just ask, and you will recieve. My next tourney near you is ghdgo, feel free to try anything I have with me.



I know that most pros will let you try whats in their bag, and I have done that before. The main reason I said I like to try before I buy from the other companies is because I know Innova works for me. I think the most important thing for any player is to be comfortable with the discs they have in their bag. I like to think of it as a coincidence that I have mostly Innova discs, not intentionaly buying Innova because they are the biggest name in the sport. Don't worry though, today I put in an order to Marshall Street to replace a TeeRex I lost in a marsh at Borderland and I added a 150 class Wizard to the order because it is the 5 dollar disc of the month.

Post deleted by donkey_nation


I am not sure why your post was deleted but feel free to send it to me in a private message.
I can take it as well as dish it out.
I meant no personal attack on the donkey nation or team donkey and was happy to see you guys in St Louis.

I am all for freedom of speech, go ahead and PM me your deleted post I can handle it!

Why I use a Gateway "Soft" Wizard, I won it back a long time ago in a ring of fire, i never used it until this year, it's my main putter now, has places where i grip on it

Also while we were cleaning the yard at the house we were gonna sell my mom found a wizard with a 2004 Ice Bowl stamp that looks like the same run as my current one, Just been sitting out there for who knows how long. heh so I must be using Vintage Wizards, i really need to try to steal my dads proto wizards :o, or somehow get a black wizard (that'd be sweet)

Every putter mentioned was derived from the Aviar


That is silly. You could also say every putter mentioned was derived from the Pluto Platter. The Rhyno is a pretty significant departure from the Aviar IMO.

And as for everyone copying the Aviar, there were Aviar-like discs out prior to the Aviar, XD for instance. I'm not saying they all throw the same, but there are only so many ways to build an 8 inch diameter, 3/4 inch deep flat top disc.

Oh, and I am an avowed Rhyno thrower for all approach and putting duties. I used to throw Aviar knockoff Omega AP, but the Rhyno is money once you adjust your throw to it.

Not ranting, just raving.



I thought the Aviar was before the XD...maybe not, but even so the differences between all the discs mentioned in terms of mold are minimal. Flat top or dome top, big bead or small, these are the only changes needed to produce the different flights of all the putters mentioned in this thread. The Aero came first, but had too much carry for putting, so Dave developed the Aviar. Looking at the shape of all putters that have came out in the 20 years since, not much has changed.

also for the ryhno being such a "significant departure" from the aviar isn't it just an aviar with a thumb track

: ) :

After AmNat's last year, BOY! Do those CT challengers like to roll!



:DI remember those rolls. KC Aviars roll too. It must be the Chainstars. :D

also for the ryhno being such a "significant departure" from the aviar isn't it just an aviar with a thumb track

: ) :


Yeah, and a Roc is just a bigger Aviar with a different lip.

wow with this line of thoght every disc ever made after the aviar is a variation of the original... wait The aviar is not the original golf disc...

The thread is Favorite putter type not "why my putter is better than yours with a complete lineage of my putter including date of origin and likely asthetic influence"
:D:D:D

Every putter mentioned was derived from the Aviar


That is silly. You could also say every putter mentioned was derived from the Pluto Platter. The Rhyno is a pretty significant departure from the Aviar IMO.

And as for everyone copying the Aviar, there were Aviar-like discs out prior to the Aviar, XD for instance. I'm not saying they all throw the same, but there are only so many ways to build an 8 inch diameter, 3/4 inch deep flat top disc.

Oh, and I am an avowed Rhyno thrower for all approach and putting duties. I used to throw Aviar knockoff Omega AP, but the Rhyno is money once you adjust your throw to it.

Not ranting, just raving.



I thought the Aviar was before the XD...maybe not, but even so the differences between all the discs mentioned in terms of mold are minimal. Flat top or dome top, big bead or small, these are the only changes needed to produce the different flights of all the putters mentioned in this thread. The Aero came first, but had too much carry for putting, so Dave developed the Aviar. Looking at the shape of all putters that have came out in the 20 years since, not much has changed.



Yea , I read that too !!!!! " And as for everyone copying the Aviar, there were Aviar-like discs out prior to the Aviar, XD for instance.

Wrong !!!! The XD came AFTER the Aviar. XD stood for Extra Distance Aviar. That guy needs to know his Disc Golf History , before shooting himself in the foot. :p

also for the ryhno being such a "significant departure" from the aviar isn't it just an aviar with a thumb track

: ) :



That is a Ask Dave question to be more specific.

Fake rubber vomit is just an Aviar with chunks.

Every putter mentioned was derived from the Aviar


That is silly. You could also say every putter mentioned was derived from the Pluto Platter. The Rhyno is a pretty significant departure from the Aviar IMO.

And as for everyone copying the Aviar, there were Aviar-like discs out prior to the Aviar, XD for instance. I'm not saying they all throw the same, but there are only so many ways to build an 8 inch diameter, 3/4 inch deep flat top disc.

Oh, and I am an avowed Rhyno thrower for all approach and putting duties. I used to throw Aviar knockoff Omega AP, but the Rhyno is money once you adjust your throw to it.

Not ranting, just raving.



:confused: That is silly. You could also say every putter mentioned was derived from the Pluto Platter.

No. The Pluto Platter is closer to a Mystery Y.

The Rhyno is a pretty significant departure from the Aviar IMO. No again. It just has a thumb track like the Tank.

The Wolf also has a thumb track , way different than a Roc ?

My putter history:

1995-1998: Tried everything under the sun: Aviars, Birdies, Magnets, Rattlers, Polecats, Omega SuperSoft
1999-2002: Discraft APX
2002 - present: Omega SuperSoft

personally i use an 11x time aviar for putting
but i could just as easily use a cam todd challenger or a medium wizard, I like both a lot
i use the 11x times b/c I don't buy discs, they are replaceable, and they are what i have left from playing AM

from The EVOLUTION of DISC GOLF DISCS By : Tom Monroe Edited by : Doug Carder

"1984
Innova :
The Aviar was Innova�s third disc. It was special in its accuracy and overstability. It allowed you to make a faster run at your target. Over the years it has been debated to be the best overall and most popular disc golf disc ever.

The next disc that Innova came out with was the XD. It was a low profile version of the Aviar. It is less stable and flies longer than the Aviar. It has a very thin rim. It was the distance champ right out of the box."


Oops, guess I was wrong. It doesn't change my point though. The fact that the disc is similar in size and shape, does not mean it is a copy. It's called standing on the shoulders of giants. You start with what works and see what you can do to improve or change it.

Also, my Rhyno flies quite a bit different than my Aviar. If they intended to copy the Aviar, they did a poor job of it.

Lets see, Jay reading won the worlds putting Chamionpionships, Justin Kerr won the worlds in Advanced, Devan Owens Won Jr worlds last year, Matt hall won Mid nationals, all using the Wizard. ( I think there are others, but they remain anonymous because or possible persecution)





I thought Jay Reading used KC's, or was this before he was sponsored by Innova? I've heard a bunch of good things about Wizards from some really good players.... I might try one out after worlds, but for now i gotta stick w/ the 11xkc.

The thread is Favorite putter type not "why my putter is better than yours with a complete lineage of my putter including date of origin and likely asthetic influence"
:D:D:D



I would like to second this motion. Lets end the thread sidetrack and go back to the original intention.

Plus its not the disc who makes the player but the player who makes the disc.

O and i guess all american cars are just model t's since that was the first car and the rest have just been modified and upgraded versions. :D

True.............O and i guess all american cars are just t's since that was the first car and the rest have just been modified and upgraded versions.


I would rather drive a Continental GT versus my Toyota !!!!

BB Aviar-> Z Putt'r-> APX Swirl-> Aviar P&A-> soft Rhyno-> Aviar P&A-> soft Challenger-> Aviar-> Wizard (med, soft & ss)-> Aviar P&A. I've tried different putters and I always come back to what feels & works the best for me. Aviar, #1 for a good reason.

Aviar...............always copied.

Probably the First Hall of Fame Putter !!!!

I'm pretty sure I listed several ways the Wizard is not a copy of the aviar, all of which change the way it feels and flies.
I'll be the first to admit the Aviar was the starting point but there are a ot of differences that make the Wizard unique!

Jay won the worlds putting contest using the Wizard before he was sponsored (twice I think)!

My favorite putter is the Shuttle Puppy, which is still my main putter. It has been my main putter for 20 years. I continue to audition new putters, looking for one as dead straight as the Kitty Hawk (which is actually the mold used for the Shuttle Puppy). Currently, I'm trying out a Lightning Upshot and a Rhyno.

And your trying these out for the straightness?

Do you know Jan Sobel?

I have treid to contact him sveral times so we can run sokme Wizard type metarils in the super puppy but he never returns my calls.

CHALLENGER!!!
Lightly beat Pro D for throwing.
CT sig. for putting.

One that goes in and stays in.
One that doesn't bounce out or go through.
One that you don't have to second guess.
;)

Lets see, Jay reading won the worlds putting Chamionpionships, Justin Kerr won the worlds in Advanced, Devan Owens Won Jr worlds last year, Matt hall won Mid nationals, all using the Wizard. ( I think there are others, but they remain anonymous because or possible persecution)

Our Sposnored TEAM Players have won NT events, Many A-Tiers and countless other events using the wizard.
Ask most top pro's ( if you know any) and they will tell you, if they werent sponsored they would throw the Wizard!

Lets see donkey, I'm pretty sure most of the people who beat you in St Louis last month were using the Wizard.

You and the rest of the disc golf world shoot your selves in the foot evry time you criticise Gateway, Discraft, Dga and lightning) and continue to hold back disc golf by not embracing existing or new companies and their products.

This industry needs 20 disc manufacturing companies in order for it to ever go anywhere serious!

Do you feel disc golf should be bigger by now?

Do you want to see a lot more courses go in the ground?

Do you want to see disc golf on TV?

Do you think players should be playing for more money?

In case you are too blinded by the innova light, the biggest reason disc golf isnt huge by know, is mainly due to lack of competition in the industry.
When one company has a 90% ( Market Share) monopoly in any industry its never good for the consumer!!
Take our $20 million dollar industry and divided it into 5 compaines that all do $4 million each and what do you think happens?

It's nice to be loyal to your god ( company) and if your relegion( hating on other companies) doesnt allow you to worship any other gods( Support other Companies) thats great for you, but not for the rest of the world.

These hard core innova supporters are worse than Jahovas witness or Har Chirshnas and even Islamic fundamentalists!
( well That may have went to far, but you get the point!)

OPEN YOUR EYES and your mind might follow!

:confused: :D




Dave, I respect you. I think your a smart guy about almost everything disc golf.

But, that being said, this is a ignorant post.

I have to ask, dont you get tired of pushing your Anti-Innova propaganda? Or is the answer no, because you have enough impressionable minds around you, they still enjoy listening to it?
Im all for you sharing your opinion, it makes for enjoyable reading and ( most of the time ) adds great insight. Your not afraid to talk about subjects others are ( especially relating to design ) and I respect and appreciate that. However, when your not doing that your blasting Innova and thier 90% ( BS ) dominance of the game and how its keeping the game down.

What if the sides were reversed? What if Gateway was the "All Ruling God" and Innova was the "Other Religion"? Are you trying to imply youd give away what youve worked for so that 15 other companies could step up and take sales away from your company? LOL. Thats hilarious.

Why not start now? Why not give CHING or DGA the rights to the Wizard? Im sure that would give them the added boost they need to join into the competitive market of disc golf retail.

I guess you do what you gotta do to sell discs right? I guess finally getting some payoff for your hard work and getting your product into TONS of new players hands isnt enough? Your products have lately been lights out, and more people than ever are buying your Wizards, yet you still have to constantly RIP on people that dont buy it or throw it, or call it an Avair or some knock off.
Its not a knock off, your right. Its re-tooled.

Im also curious how Innova is holding people down in this business? You are offering to sell discs to anyone on the planet that will simply call your shop, at least Innova makes you work to sell thier products. I couldnt become a authorized dealer of thier products until I produced a lease and a business license. Oh, I get it, your still hooked on the "Sell them out of your trunk" theroy. Go Gateway! Make it harder on individules actually trying to sell this sport legally by inducing as much of your product as possible on whoever will take it, regardless of how they distribute it. Whatever it takes to get the product out, huh?

IMO, its not a company holding down the sport, its the lack of outside companies wanting to contribute sponsor dollars to it.

I honestly hope your individule packaging works out for you. It didnt work well for others, but maybe it will for you. I wish you the best of luck.

Past the thread drift...........

Aviar> Magnet> Rhyno> Wizard> Avair> KC Avair> Star Aviar> AVIAR.

Magnet never worked for me, Rhyno and Wizard didnt have the glide of the Aviar. I bounce back from DX to KC to Star, depending on how things are going at that time.

I liked the Wizard the most for approachs, but could never find 2 that were alike unless I bought them both at the same time. Wasnt big on them as putters.

DX Aviar P&A --> 3x JK Aviar --> Polecat --> Wizard --> 3x JK Aviar

Aviar P&A was too flat
Polecat sailed by too far on misses
Wizard never really felt "at home" in my hand
BB supersoft Aviar is the girl for me!

Latitude 64� Sinus AP & SP

You can easily throw a 300ft shot with the AP with more control than a Roc.

PT Woods :cool:

I've putted with every putter u can imagine...86 softies all the way to innova Zepyers...I'm back once again using soft black proto Wizard

One last thing...no reason to argue to putter is better than another...its all about different stokes for different folks.

dx rhyno --> cobra --> soft magnet --> buzzz --> rhyno --> supersoft --> rhyno --> wizard -->aviar --> qmega -->chief -->rhyno.....see a pattern here?

I always putt with a buzz. :cool:

I putt with a 184 40F mold.
Longer Putts , I use a 71c* at 178 grams.
Turnover shots , a 70 mold.
:cool:Midnight Flyers.

Past the thread drift...........

Aviar> Magnet> Rhyno> Wizard> Avair> KC Avair> Star Aviar> AVIAR.

Magnet never worked for me, Rhyno and Wizard didnt have the glide of the Aviar. I bounce back from DX to KC to Star, depending on how things are going at that time.

I liked the Wizard the most for approachs, but could never find 2 that were alike unless I bought them both at the same time. Wasnt big on them as putters.



Word on that. Aviars for regular putting and bulldogs for windy days.

Worked on my putting some more chase, and Im really banging them away. Even managed to get a pretty accurate jump putt working for me.

I putt with a 184 40F mold.
Longer Putts , I use a 71c* at 178 grams.
Turnover shots , a 70 mold.
:cool:Midnight Flyers.



Donny, I think you're having a flashback from the early 80's! But those are the right molds for those shots!

Pro line Rhyno

my name says it all ;)

I putt with a 184 40F mold.
Longer Putts , I use a 71c* at 178 grams.
Turnover shots , a 70 mold.
:cool:Midnight Flyers.



Pure nostalgia, I love it :D:) :)

I checked the whole thread just to make sure nobody else had said this one yet, because I bet myself no one would.

I use an Aerobie Arrow.

In the past I've used (that I can remember): Soft magnet, Aero (DX and CE), Birdie (pre-Thumbtrac), U2-Prostyle, #1 Upshot, US-1 Prostyle, Polecat, Chief, Evolution Wizard, X-Putt'r, and a Juju prototype from when they were still calling it the Excelerator (I think). My glow putter is a Hi-Flex Rubber Putter because that's what I have that glows.

All of these worked pretty well for me when I was using them. I've never cared as much for the aviar as for its "clones" because for some reason the rim always seemed to me to be deeper than it should be for the shape of the wing...personal preference, just because I don't like the way it feels doesn't take away from its being a great putter. I use a flippin' Arrow...I ain't gonna judge someone else's putter by how it feels.

My favorites...or possibly the ones I was using when I liked my putting the best...have been the Aero/Birdie combo (I used them for different purposes), the U2-Polecat combo (I can't for the life of me remember why I switched to that...), the E-Wizard, and my Arrow. At the moment, however...I think my second choice putter would be my Condor. And that's terrible.

I putt with a 184 40F mold.
Longer Putts , I use a 71c* at 178 grams.
Turnover shots , a 70 mold.
:cool:Midnight Flyers.



Donny, I think you're having a flashback from the early 80's! But those are the right molds for those shots!



Circa . 1976 -1981 /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Started using Puppys just after that from late 1981 through 1984.
Traveled across the USA in 1982. Played over 70 courses then with a Puppy and Midnight Flyers.

Then in 1982 the Original Eagle came out , then the stable version , the Aero.

Used those through the birth of the Aviar in 1984.

Soft Rhyno, Pro Line for most putts; older DX rhyno for 'into the wind' putts. I never use my soft rhyno for anything but putting and I believe they get better with age. You do have to like to put a little snap on rhyno putts, otherwise don't putt with them. I can putt with anything given time to get familiar with it (proven by putting in people's basements with whatever is on hand) but the rhyno holds up best in the wind and feels best in my hand. The one downfall of rhynos is they 'swoop hyzer' at end of longer floating putts unless the disc is very seasoned and you give them extra spin. A beat up Aviar/Magnet/Challenger/Wizard is a better choice for that type of putt.

I checked the whole thread just to make sure nobody else had said this one yet, because I bet myself no one would.

I use an Aerobie Arrow.



have to think there is a reason no one else said it :D

Piranha > Magnet > Aviar(s) > Omega(s) > XD > Rhyno(s) > Wizard(s) > Aviar P&A

Where's my Star Piranha?! :eek:

I prefer rhynos and am a decent putter. I can do a pretty good job with the long putts as well, but generally a plan for the tail off to hit the basket on long putts. I will say this, QMSs are excellent for long putts, just beware that they spins out unless the basket is hit properly.


Soft Rhyno, Pro Line for most putts; older DX rhyno for 'into the wind' putts. I never use my soft rhyno for anything but putting and I believe they get better with age. You do have to like to put a little snap on rhyno putts, otherwise don't putt with them. I can putt with anything given time to get familiar with it (proven by putting in people's basements with whatever is on hand) but the rhyno holds up best in the wind and feels best in my hand. The one downfall of rhynos is they 'swoop hyzer' at end of longer floating putts unless the disc is very seasoned and you give them extra spin. A beat up Aviar/Magnet/Challenger/Wizard is a better choice for that type of putt.

Rhynos rule I wish they woudl remake the Pro Line which were a bit more stiff but other than that they rule.

I putt with a 184 40F mold.
Longer Putts , I use a 71c* at 178 grams.
Turnover shots , a 70 mold.
:cool:Midnight Flyers.



Donny, I think you're having a flashback from the early 80's! But those are the right molds for those shots!

[/QUOTE]

Circa . 1976 -1981 /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Started using Puppys just after that from late 1981 through 1984.
Traveled across the USA in 1982. Played over 70 courses then with a Puppy and Midnight Flyers.

Then in 1982 the Original Eagle came out , then the stable version , the Aero.

Used those through the birth of the Aviar in 1984.

[/QUOTE]

22 years making money with a Aviar. :D

Don't leave home or the course without one !!!! :cool:


Oh , yea I'll switch to the other guys putter for $ 923,358,497,000.50

That's my cost for my putter integrity /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I love the Rhyno. I've only putted with Tanks, Aviars, Birdies, and Rhynos. I like the Rhyno the best, especially the old Special Edition Rhynos. Glad I have 4 of them.

I've recently switched over to the Wizard from Gateway. This disc is awesome on short drives, approaches, and putts (regardless of wind).
Looks like I am gonna find a home for my Putt'R, and Challengers.

I like the Aviar X.

I carry two.
A new stable one and a beat understable one.

The Best. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

My Putter Evolution...

December 2004 - Lightning Number 2 Driver
This was the first disc I ever threw, and for a while whenever my friend Ryan busted out the Birdie I laughed my #$*&$! off at how stupid it was, and how it didn't matter what disc you putted with because I could put my #2 in the basket better than he could put his Birdie in the basket!

March 2005 - Innova Aviar Putt & Approach
Eventually I saw the sign, and it opened up my eyes I saw the s... oops, got distracted... anyway, eventually I figured out that putters mattered. I got my first putter in March 2005 on my birthday, along with a Roc and Panther in a three disc set from ***** Sporting Goods.

June 2005 - Innova Rhyno
I used a Rhyno. It was my rebellious stage. Rawr.

July 2005 - Innova Aviar Putt & Approach
My rebellious stage was over quickly, I was looking for something with a bit more of a classic feel...

August 2005 - Innova Champion Aero
And classic I found, indeed. I putted with a Champion Aero for a while, it was different from the Aviar and really helped me ease back into putting after I lost my eye in a mid-July carjacking. With the way it floated I was able to hit more putts despite my depth perception conflicts.

October 2005 - Innova Aviar Putt & Approach
Soon, however, I began to get a feel for distances and it was back to the P&A... the Aero and the Rhyno found special places in my bag for about eight months after this as hyzer and anhyzer putters, but now I'm down to just the Aviar in the bag... along with a First Run Pro Aviar for my putter drives.


And to be honest... I don't get all the hubbub about what putter is better... I've played hot rounds with Wizards for fun, with Challengers for fun, with Aerobie Arrows... I've even matched my best on a local pitch-n-putt course with the Innova Polecat... If you know what you're doing you can get hot with any freaking putter on the market...

As for the guys that talk about their Omega Supersofts... I may be joining you. I've heard reports that Innova is switching their Putt and Approaches to a completely beadless mold. I'm comfortable with the small bead, and if the no-bead feels too sharp (as the no-bead star ones do!) I may be jumping on the Omega bandwagon.


-Chris.

I wanted to post this somewhere and this seems like a good thread for it. My buddy goes to yardsales on weekends and ran into a deal. A bag of 12 discs labeled 50 cents each. All were slightly used to used condition, none were bad. It included a nice variety of putters among others.

DX Aviar P/A
D Magnet
DX Birdie
APX Swirl
DX Puma
DX Shark
DX Archangel
DX Roc
DX Firebird
Z-Xtra
and the creme of the crop...the one I talked him out of....the one with the actual 50 cent sticker on it...a very nice condition 9X Aviar. All for 6 bux. He gave me the 9X for free and he kept the rest.

I wanted to post this somewhere and this seems like a good thread for it. My buddy goes to yardsales on weekends and ran into a deal. A bag of 12 discs labeled 50 cents each. All were slightly used to used condition, none were bad. It included a nice variety of putters among others.

DX Aviar P/A
D Magnet
DX Birdie
APX Swirl
DX Puma
DX Shark
DX Archangel
DX Roc
DX Firebird
Z-Xtra
and the creme of the crop...the one I talked him out of....the one with the actual 50 cent sticker on it...a very nice condition 9X Aviar. All for 6 bux. He gave me the 9X for free and he kept the rest.



A friend of mine works at a DG store around here. Last week this kid came in with a Sanny Roc, DTW "one leg roc" stamp. He said he was hoping to get $10 for it. :D:D:D

well here is what I have thrown.

early 94 to late 94 The good ol Birdie
late 94 to early 95 The Polecat (but it always rolled away so far from the basket)
95 - 96 The Lightning Rubber Putter. It was a great disc, but only until I tried a supersoft
1996 - 2000 Omega Supersofts 1.3 mold. LOVED IT. Had more putts stick into the side of the basket than in the chains.
2000 - 2004 DX Aviar. Still the bets approach disc in the world.
2004 - NOW The ProLine Aviar. The putter I have always wanted. Not too soft, not too stiff. Durable and very stable. I've really dialed in my putts over the last 2 years with this disc. Still using the same one I started with 2 years ago and it is still as stable as it was when I bought it. Thats why i didn;t like the normal aviar, it would get too beat and not come back after a few months.

Aviar, big bead, 170g, beaten => primary putter
Aviar, small bead, 150g, beaten => for long or anhyzer putts

I used Soft Wizards for a while, but their flight characteristics changed too dramatically when they
(a) got too beaten, or
(b) were used in temps lower than 40 degrees

The GT Banger ALMOST replaced my Aviar, but I'm going to need more practice with a different grip.

and as for yard sales. I picked up a kitty hawk the other day for $0.05. NOt bad :)