blueberry valkyrie at $200 and climbing

http://cgi.ebay.com/mint-BLUEBERRY-1ST-Run-CE-VALKYRIE-disc-golf-frisbee_W0QQitemZ7232921938QQcategoryZ20851QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

Unless it surpasses $1338, no record. Actually I remember there was a pluto platter a year or 2 a that back that was like 5-6 grand. Anyone?

Yeah, there was a pluto platter in the wrapping with "instructions" for throwing a platter that went for just slightly over $6,000.

this disc went for 5 grand?
http://www.irishrescue.org/pics/mickeypluto10inch.jpg
****!

Weren't all the first runs red?

He sold a dark version not to far back as well.

Weren't all the first runs red?



No. Those are the most common of the 1st Runs. In some molds there are Lime, Blueberry, and Purple, Im pretty sure.

Weren't all the first runs red?


Troublemaker! :)

Who, me?

Yeah, there was a pluto platter in the wrapping with "instructions" for throwing a platter that went for just slightly over $6,000.


I thought Phil Kennedy bought it for $5600. I was in the middle of the pack of bidders with a $550 bid. I believe it was a American Trends Platter, pre Frisbee.

Considering that the Valk on ebay is not a 1st run and "just another dark blue" i think 3rd run valk, this should be very interesting. I've seen the real 1st run Blueberry Valks, and THAT AINT ONE!

Weren't all the first runs red?



The reds are the most prevelant, there are also blueberries and a few white.......like the one hanging on my wall :D.




I still want Rhett's star stamped blueberry though :( ;).

And Donkey's right, that's not a 1st run in the pic, at least from the look of the color and opaqueness of it.

It seems quite innappropriate to question the integrity of the Ebay seller (tmurph92) here. If anybody has a question about the accuracy of the item description, he should probably address his concerns directly with tmurph92 first, maybe then reporting back here if he is dismissive or evasive. . .

which he will not be. I've done literally dozens of trades & Ebay transactions with tmurph92, and he's, in every instance, been scrupulously honest and an EXCELLENT trader.

I don't want to seem disrespectful of any user in particular, nor of the spirit of completely open dialog on the mesage board, but I don't want to see an honest trader's reputation possibly impugned here unfairly.

I still want Rhett's star stamped blueberry though :( ;)


The holographic blue star is more of a sky blue. :)

I had a true 1st run blueberry that I used to throw, and it wasn't even close to the color of the disc in the auction. I don't think listing it as "blueberry" was a good move. HOWEVER, tmurph has regularly and consistently sold the "real deal" on eBay so I don't think he should be called a liar about this one being a first run until research has been done. Since it is him selling it, I believe it is a 1st run.

Anybody remember the witch hunt over Himing's white 1st run CE Valk?

when we ordered first run valks from Innova for the store, we were told all distributers were allowed a max of 25 then if they had enough they would allow up to an additional 25 so when we got the order in there were 50 first run ce valks, they were all blueberry and they were all semi opaque, it is hard to tell looking at a pic on the net, But I agree if Tmurph says it is first run I would tend to believe it. I have a harder time buying the red ones as first runs, the next order of ce valks we got after the limited initial order were all red ones, Makes me think that the true first runs were blue and latter runs were red. I dont have time to look back on the ask dave thread but I would love to see the true answer to that from the horses mouth, If he remembers back then. :D

Dave is not much of a historian when it comes to runs of discs. He is the mad scientist behind the molding and manufacturing but not a collector. I doubt anyone really knows. As a purveyor of fine plastic I have a case of 1st Run TL's that are red with the weight in large font and the TL written in large font rather than both in the mold circle. I also have a white CE TL that looks identical, same flashing, same writing, same nipple (I said nipple) etc that I would bet came out of the same batch as all the "First Run TL's I have but it has always been the accepted knowlwdge that all the first run TL's were red. Unfortunately outside of the True first run's with the star Stamp (Valks & Gazelle) there was no marking from Innova to actual differentiate the runs.

It seems quite innappropriate to question the integrity of the Ebay seller (tmurph92) here. If anybody has a question about the accuracy of the item description, he should probably address his concerns directly with tmurph92 first, maybe then reporting back here if he is dismissive or evasive. . .

which he will not be. I've done literally dozens of trades & Ebay transactions with tmurph92, and he's, in every instance, been scrupulously honest and an EXCELLENT trader.

I don't want to seem disrespectful of any user in particular, nor of the spirit of completely open dialog on the mesage board, but I don't want to see an honest trader's reputation possibly impugned here unfairly.


I'd like to amend my statement in response to this ^^:
While I don't know tmurph92 I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt. I've probably seen a dozen "blueberry" 1st run valks, all weighing 170g-174g, and the one in the pic does not look like one. I'm not saying its not, but it doesn't look like any that I've seen. It could be a 1st run, but I doubt it. There are anomolies within every run, so this could be one. However, every single 1st run CE disc (valks, teebirds, rocs, firebirds, etc.) that I've ever seen (prob hundreds) were opaque. The lighter weight ones were semi-opaque. The pic looks very clearish. But he could be using a very high-powered light source and camera flash to give that appearance.
I give tmurph92 the benefit of the doubt and would hope he's not trying to make money off some poor ebayer's ignorance.

I talked to him about it. He told me it was a 1 of 10(?) from the first runs.

I have one 1st run blueberry purchased from John Ahart who got it from one of the molders. It's blank with the molders signature on the back. Paid $150 two years ago for it.

I'm right there with Vegan Ray, tmurph is a great seller / collector.

Ill give you 50$ for right now. Cash.

so how much would my first run(that todd branch told me he personally took off the line when the winnie crew was at the factory way back when)that is in my innova rack at home be worth??
it is really a first run?
would todd branch lie about such a thing?
does anyone at innova know,or do they know and just aren't saying that that "all" of them are first offf the line??


i'll sell mine if someone can honestly answer the questions

keith

no Keith,it's a 5th run I give you 50.00 for it ;)LOL

honestly

It seems quite innappropriate to question the integrity of the Ebay seller (tmurph92) here. If anybody has a question about the accuracy of the item description, he should probably address his concerns directly with tmurph92 first, maybe then reporting back here if he is dismissive or evasive. . .

which he will not be. I've done literally dozens of trades & Ebay transactions with tmurph92, and he's, in every instance, been scrupulously honest and an EXCELLENT trader.

I don't want to seem disrespectful of any user in particular, nor of the spirit of completely open dialog on the mesage board, but I don't want to see an honest trader's reputation possibly impugned here unfairly.


I'd like to amend my statement in response to this ^^:
While I don't know tmurph92 I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt. I've probably seen a dozen "blueberry" 1st run valks, all weighing 170g-174g, and the one in the pic does not look like one. I'm not saying its not, but it doesn't look like any that I've seen. It could be a 1st run, but I doubt it. There are anomolies within every run, so this could be one. However, every single 1st run CE disc (valks, teebirds, rocs, firebirds, etc.) that I've ever seen (prob hundreds) were opaque. The lighter weight ones were semi-opaque. The pic looks very clearish. But he could be using a very high-powered light source and camera flash to give that appearance.
I give tmurph92 the benefit of the doubt and would hope he's not trying to make money off some poor ebayer's ignorance.

Forgive him Terry,he's new.Ive got alot of discs from Terry,it's all top notch.Nuff said

I know Terry also and have dealt, traded, sold & bought from him before. I also have looked at a number of his auctions over the years and this is not the first time he has listed something with questions concerning it. He had sold a green 1st run CE Firebird FL about a year ago???? I'm not saying Terry is trying to decieve anyone. I believe the true problem is with misinformation.

Every blue CE Valk on Ebay anymore carries the "1st run blueberry" tag with it and these discs are fetching big money while not being 1st runs. There are certain indicators as to the authenticity of a true 1st run. And Rhett may help a bit with this one.

-Aproximatley 200 were made. Out of those 200 Rhett got quite a few for the SOCAL Championships, aprox 50 were made and stamped with the Zonedriven stamp, I also have 3 in my collection that have the Icebowl stamp and I'm sure there were more. Not alot with the "factory stamp".

-Number produced. Once again straight from Dave, Aproximately 200 made. There have been at least a dozen listed on Ebay in the last 6 months. All transparent, all had the factory stamp. Some even claiming the true "1st run rainbow stamp". There were alot of 1st run stamp colors with rainbow being but one of them. Don't fall for this.

-The marking test on back. 1st runs and half way through the 2nd runs the weight was written in the small production circle with the model written outside the cirlce. Latter 2nd runs and beyond had both the weight and model both written inside the circle. There were also alot of 1st runs that had a sticker on back stating it was a 1st run. All 10 of the Bleberry valks in my collection have this sticker and markings. None of them have a factory stamp.

Here's a pic of a true 1st run Zonedriven CE Blueberry Valk.
You can somehwat see the sticker on the back although the disc is not transparent. It is opaque. This also gives you an idea about the "blueberry" color. Whatever you do ask alot of questions if you have any doubts about a discs authenticity. I've also added a pic of the sticker found on back.

http://i21.ebayimg.com/05/i/06/d6/31/42_1.JPG

http://i23.ebayimg.com/03/i/06/dc/53/a2_1.JPG

I have a 1st Run CE FX, which is key lime. And an CE Eagle, and Ive heard, but do not have, the elusive Lime Green CE Leopard. I have a friend that has a Blueberry Valk he got from Juliana, that she said was a 1st Run, and was quite rare. It is completely opaque. It also has a Lime green Swirl right through the center.

So would hers be a first run production possibly? Im not going to call her a liar, but you can.

mine has NO weight OR model written on it....

what does that mean...that maybe todd DID take it right off the line and didn't have it weighed or marked??

again....the only ones who really know aren't talking now
:(

The huge flashing shown in that picture by RickB is also a sign of first-run-ness, although it doesn't guarrentee it.

CE Firebird FX's were 3rd runs. These came in a variety of colors. FL's made up the first 2 runs, same applies to the CE Eagle EL and CE Teebird TL.

And there are alot of stories about the "elusive" 1st run colors that some claim to have. 99.9% of those claims are myth or false. The only one that I know of that has been verified is Chris Himing's 3 off color 1st run CE valkyries that he got. Purpleish, grey and off white if I remember correctly. Not made for him but rather 3 where the color didn't come through right.

As for Kieth, there are alot of stories also about Pro Golfer so&so got this straight from the factory and swears it's a X?X run disc. Todd may have grabbed one off of the production line without it being marked by weight, model or stamp. However he knows this is a major issue with Innova in that thier policy states no disc is to leave the factory without a stamp unless Harold or Dave give it to you. They do make it out though. Either someone visiting the factory sneaks one out or in the very, very rare case a dishonest employee smuggles some out. I bought a sleeve of blank 2nd run CE Valks 2 years ago from an ex Innova employee. Turned them back in to Harold right away. If I got caught selling them there was a chance they'd cancel my ability to buy product from them.

Moral is you have to be careful about what you buy no matter who's selling. The few folks I get information from are those that handled the discs. Even Dave is not quite sure sometimes. But the guys at Innova who stamped them all or boxed them all have been the most helpful and reliable for info.

As for Kieth, there are alot of stories also about Pro Golfer so&so got this straight from the factory and swears it's a X?X run disc. Todd may have grabbed one off of the production line without it being marked by weight, model or stamp. However he knows this is a major issue with Innova in that thier policy states no disc is to leave the factory without a stamp unless Harold or Dave give it to you. They do make it out though. Either someone visiting the factory sneaks one out or in the very, very rare case a dishonest employee smuggles some out. I bought a sleeve of blank 2nd run CE Valks 2 years ago from an ex Innova employee. Turned them back in to Harold right away. If I got caught selling them there was a chance they'd cancel my ability to buy product from them.

Moral is you have to be careful about what you buy no matter who's selling. The few folks I get information from are those that handled the discs. Even Dave is not quite sure sometimes. But the guys at Innova who stamped them all or boxed them all have been the most helpful and reliable for info.



well rCIk(i know you spelled mine wrong on purpose) :D
the story from todd was that HE WAS running the line when the winnie crew was there before the winnie crew started out and i got several winnie rocs-2 of the ce blue valks-and 2 of the first run ce tbirds-and a winnie stamped nude whippet that todd threw a couple of times
i spent a few hundred dollars on fueling the winnie that first year as i played a majority of the tournament around the country that they played in...i can only go by what he told me and maybe he got them from innova as part of their sponsorship,maybe he got them for working there,maybe he stuffed them in his underwear every night as he was headed out....i don't know or really care....i bought the discs to help out friends of mine live their disc golf dreams and threw all of them except the second valk as i didn't like how the first one flew for me...i threw it twice and hated it,so it melted on the top of my practice basket in the tucson sun and cracked before i threw it in the trash can...
the other one was in my boxes of discs(which have now been back and forth across the country)
and is now in my display racks with the over 500 other discs on the wall

if i had a place to put digital pictures up i could show the discs and the valk to see if rick thinks it is real...
i am curious to know what the REAL story is on it....

keith

...i can only go by what he told me and maybe he got them from innova as part of their sponsorship,maybe he got them for working there,maybe he stuffed them in his underwear every night as he was headed out....



Or maybe he took them one piece at a time, and it didn't cost him a dime...but you'll know it's him when he comes through your town.

Sorry, just had a Johnny Cash moment there. :cool:

What Im told comes straight from other CE wholesalers at the time. Im not out to call anyone wrong, especially since no one really seems to know much about anything, except conflicting stories. I do know I have a 1st Run CE Leopard that is purple...and my Lime Eagle isnt a EL, I dont think. Id have to double check to be sure.

I worded my post wrong, I just wanted to state that the disc in the pic didn't look like the first run blueberries I have seen. There are obviously allot of variarances in colr, opaqueness, etc..... in the first runs. The white, or off-white, one that I have is one of the 1st runs that came from Himing and everyone questioned it at first. It still amazes me how crazy people go over some of the 1st run discs.


Again, I wasn't trying to call anyone a liar or question their integrity, just stating my opinion based on the pic. The real indicator (color and all of the markings aside) should be the flashing on the rim, I've yet to feel any other run of Valk like the 1st runs.