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Discuss.

Tried it at Pro Worlds last summer. Looks like fancy protection for Great Grandma's urn.

Too small.

My GG was petite...

Not that this is a bad idea at all. It really closes up the putting green and will help reestablish pars in a similar manner to ball golf.

But thinking of the capital outlay that would have to be undertaken to revamp every disc golf course to change basket styles.....pheww.

The only way this would be feasible is if clubs had available land to relocate all the displaced old baskets too from pitch and putt and make a larger course. Of course then, it would destroy the highly needed and warrented pitch-n-putt courses that help build the amateur and recreational players.

Traveling disc golfers would likely not play tournaments on these styles of baskets, mainly preferring the older more common style.

Again, not a bad idea. I just do not know how feasible it really is. I would like to try putting on it, but how will it stand up to getting hit with a fast disc? This proto model looks portable, unless it can be installed into the current diameter sleeves, it looks a little shaky.

I cant tell by the pic...is there anything stopping the disc from falling to the ground besides an off chance possibility of getting hung in the chains?

Oh, it would be much cheaper and solve the problem of the disc falling to the ground if they replaced the unnecessary chains with steel rods.

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There are cross-chains so that the disc should not fall out. Jim P. claims that they stay in.

But thinking of the capital outlay that would have to be undertaken to revamp every disc golf course to change basket styles.....pheww.


I haven't read anyone suggesting that we replace all the existing baskets (though I'm sure the inventor of this basket would like that).


Traveling disc golfers would likely not play tournaments on these styles of baskets, mainly preferring the older more common style.


I'm not sure. Those that are avid BGers, might appreciate it if it does indeed emulate BG putting like it claims to.


This proto model looks portable, unless it can be installed into the current diameter sleeves, it looks a little shaky.


Good point, I wonder if Mr P. has considered that as part of his marketing plan.

My GG was petite...

LOL

I believe there are horizontal cables that prevent a regulation sized golf disc from making a side exit (or entry).


Personally, I don't like it. It would make long holed putts and aces nearly non existent. I don't see it as an improvement to the game. Without significant improvement there is no reason to undertake the added cost and effort it would require to make such a change.

Makes our game more like golf. Putting becomes a lot harder and the short game becomes more critical.

Almost completely eliminates the "lay up vs. go for it" equation since the same kind of throw would usually be required for both, which is also like golf.

It is change. Disc golfers are ultra-orthodox about the way their game is played. Change is very, very bad, always. :cool:

Eliminates the jump-putt controversy. No one is going to get an advantage by jumping at that thing from 40 feet away.

It would require some people to learn a different kind of throw.

It is superfluous if it costs more than $7. I mean, if I wanted to putt into a bucket, I could buy a good quality bucket (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=20327&product%5Fid=9715) for that much. Or I could get them for free from my local seal coat guy.

Conclusion: It is a cool idea. This is not a sport for cool ideas. It is as likely to succeed as a target as Dr. Fred's directional baskets. But if no one else wants the new car, I'll play the tournament on them.

If we would go to this extent, it would make more sense to just put fancy holes in the ground at a diameter between this basket and our basket. The holes could have a nice metal lip around it that could be cemented or secured to the ground and a metal screen in the bottom for drainage. That would significantly reduce the cost for a course and we could literally get more of them "in the ground."

Can a disc enter the basket while the flag is in place ?

It looks too small for that.

"Where is the hole"...dumb idea IMO.

"Where is the hole"...dumb idea IMO.



Guess I didn't notice the flag at first. It never ceases to amaze me the endless supply of stupid ideas disc golfers come up with. /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

C'mon now. You know the caddie removes the flag when you get on the putting green to putt :D

Way back in the day, the course in Rochester, New York, had ground baskets that consisted of a fence post surrounded by some chicken wire.

These tru-putts are definately cuter than that.

My initial impression was so favorable, I know this idea is dead in the water. I like whacky, innovative concepts. But when it comes to disc golf, I think I'm the only one. Maybe Mark Ellis is the other one.

This is the problem. Most disc golfers are pretty short sighted. If Innova makes a driver that goes fifty feet further they all think that's really neat, as if its going to go 50 feet further only for them. If DGA makes a basket that catches 50% more putts they think that's cool too, as if it is only going to catch 50% more of their putts. So this guy comes out with a target that makes putting really, really hard.

Clearly, he does not hang out with disc golfers. :D

Can a disc enter the basket while the flag is in place ?

It looks too small for that.



It looks to me like it would if it enters at a very steep angle. I added another picture to the original post.

Before I even knew what 'disc golf' was or what a 'pole hole' was, I was playing frisbee golf using round laundry baskets for holes....looks like the same idea.

My initial impression was so favorable, I know this idea is dead in the water. I like whacky, innovative concepts. But when it comes to disc golf, I think I'm the only one. Maybe Mark Ellis is the other one.


I'm the only one that likes the DFA baskets. (Dr. Fred Abomination.) I'm the only one that wishes Emerald Isle still had them instead of the new baskets that were put in.

I would play a tourney on those "Houck Baskets". :)

None of my aces would've been aces on those baskets, so therefore.....I hate them. ;)

My ace last friday at WaterWorks would've been a horrible shot if those baskets were being used. It would've turned a beautiful "1" into a "3" or "4". I don't think my putting would suffer though. An "Airball" on those would be the same as an "airball" on mach's or discatcher's or etc....

My initial impression was so favorable, I know this idea is dead in the water. I like whacky, innovative concepts. But when it comes to disc golf, I think I'm the only one. Maybe Mark Ellis is the other one.


Put Dr. Fred in that group as well, and maybe Harold Duvall/Jonathan Poole (USDGC was pretty **** innovative). Add Chuck (ratings) to that list of innovators. And I'm a fan of ideas from all the above.



Clearly, he does not hang out with disc golfers. :D



As far as the old ground baskets, this is probably an offshoot of those.

It looks to me like it would if it enters at a very steep angle. I added another picture to the original post.


My home course is on a ball golf course. From the design of that little basket, it looks like the marketing angle is to put the basket on greens of ball golf courses right over the ball golf holes.

That is a humongous mistake.

Ball golf greens are the most expensive parts of ball golf courses. You want to keep the discs off of the ball golf greens. Putting the basket on the green will encourage the use of the tombstone impaling spike-hyzer shot to "stick-it" next to the basket.

All those zipper-line cuts in the greens will quickly lead to the removal of the baskets from the ball golf course.

I'm the only one that likes the DFA baskets. (Dr. Fred Abomination.) I'm the only one that wishes Emerald Isle still had them instead of the new baskets that were put in.


Yeah, but they were still in the "standard" basket configuration, right? Not the directional style?

I would play a tourney on those "Houck Baskets". :)


LOL. Took me a minute.

What i like about this basket:

- it rewards to a greater degree accurate upshots and tee shots on reachable Par 3's. With this kind of target, an upshot that lands 5 feet from the basket offers a significantly greater opportunity to sink the next shot than an upsot that lands 20 feet from the target. With current targets, there isn't as huge a difference in the likelihood of sinking the next shot when one compares a lie 5 feet from the target vs. one 20 feet away.

- i like what jim palmeri has done for the sport.

what i don't like about the targets:

- one cannot take a run at the target from a distance because the likelihood of nailing a long-distance shot is quite minimal.
- aces would be almost non-existent.
- the targets are harder to see from a distance.
- what do we do about the existing 2000 courses with traditional baskets? those targets won't be just thrown away, and because the strategy is so different from the Tru-Putt basket, i don't believe it is sensible for the sport to have 2 very different disc-catching devices with 2 very different strategies.

I've played competitive rounds on tone poles, 4X4 posts, cone baskets, chainless baskets, cable baskets, painted trees, cloth baskets. Seal coat buckets might be interesting. We may try that for our temp league when we go back to the park this summer. It would be easier than lugging Skill Shots all over the park and worrying about them getting stolen. Since aces are nearly impossible anyway, we could mark the tees and bucket pocations, issue maps, and give each foursome a bucket to set up as they go along.

Frisbee bucket golf. :D

Duct tape is even more portable. As they say, "Don't bucket 'til you've tried it."

Personally I don't like them, it makes putting way harder but not in a fair and skilled way. Putting in ball golf you can get better at, you can learn to read greens and you can learn to control your speed. The big thing in ball golf is reading the greens. Take a look at putt-putt (mini golf) there is no green reading, it's flat concrete with astroturf (or carpet), watch novices putt on that surface and it's pretty easy.

So with that style of basket you are turning the DG green into a putt-putt green. Learn your speed and line and you're done. Granted this would be more difficult than the current baskets but I don't think that's the challenge people are looking for.

My practice basket at home doesn't have chains on it (or sometimes I tie the chains together to make them smaller). This seesm like a much better alternative to changing the way everyone who plays putts.

It seems alot of the baskets coming out now all advertise that they catch better, maybe the pdga should approve baskets that catch consistently but require a truer putt in order to catch. The titans and Disccatchers catch just about anything that hits chains, making putting much easier. If you want to make it more challenging and skillful make the chains smaller and the basket smaller as well so that your true center putts will stick and everything else falls out.

my $0.02

It appears as though this basket tries to emulate ball golf in the sense that it is a hole for the game object to fall into from the top, like a golf ball falls into a hole in the ground. The trouble with that is that discs generally don't roll on the ground and fall into a hole. They fly through the air. Disc golf has been based for the past 30 plus years on a device that catches the discs in flight as they normally fly.

If you wanted to change over to this type of target, a large hole in the ground would serve the same purpose and be more fair.

I'm going to do my best to get a decent variety of target types for my home course. I offered to run an event using all Holgate experimental directional style targets and will still do so.

Will it be different from playing with Chicken BBQ targets?

Yup. But then that's the point, isn't it?

Imagine Brandywine with all TruPutts!?! Scores would go up by 15 to 20 strokes a round.

And I'm not saying that TruPutts or Holgate's design are the end all, they're just a long overdue variety and imagination.

One thing I want for my course is Open Lid targets. Both these designs are open lid. Dr. Fred's is a decent design too. I got one of his PVC targets years ago and really liked it, never played on the metal ones. I'd like to try several of the designs out at Kennett before I commit to buying 18.

Shameless plug: If you guys send me some of your targets I will install them at Kennett and invite course pros from our region to come check them out in live action...

I would play a tourney on those "Houck Baskets". :)


LOL. Took me a minute.



HA! Sadly it took me longer. :confused: But at least I got it now.

I think Stick has a valid point here. Granted I haven't putted on this type of basket (TruPutt) but it does appear to be something that would more resemble the skills of throwing Horseshoes rather than discs. I am not saying the TruPutt is a bad idea, but the skill set seems to be flowing away from throwing a disc as we think of it today. With all that said I do remember Ed telling me that part of the idea behind the basket came from them throwing discs into a trash can in the warehouse, so with that in mind this basket is just what Ed was talking about when they started, it would resemble the trash can in the warehouse.

Now, my opinion is, if you want to make the game more difficult, go back to the original DGA Mach I, use 8 chains and the original shallow basket. You will here many complaints about how the disc went through the chains, it bounced out of the basket, etc.....

So, is a basket supposed to be able to catch shots that are not good? I think the TruPutt is along that pattern (making it harder) but isn't putting all about touch? If all the baskets catch everything, then shouldn't we just throw it hard at the basket and go to the next hole :( :confused:

If you want a true par 3, make the basket harder to putt on, but don't change the way we go about it. Just so you know, I have an original Mach II in my backyard as my practice basket, shallow basket and all. It spits, discs go through the chains, etc... but I wouldn't change it for anything because it make these new baskets so much easier to putt on.

my .02

In everything I have read from Mr. Palmer, he has NEVER stated this basket was better or should replace the current basket. Only that it is different and takes a different approch to the basket.

However, I would not mind playing a tournament with this for a chance for a new car :D

Is there a picture of this basket ?

Is there a picture of this basket ?



The first post on this thread has a picture of the TruPutt basket.

Why have sports such as basketball, football, baseball, soccer, and ball golf succeeded? I believe it is in part due to the fact that they have changed relatively little over the course of many years. Of course, there have been (and will always be) developments within the game, but generally they have not affected the fundamental way the game is played. In ball golf, for instance, we have seen new clubs with the ability to hit the ball farther and more accurately, and balls that fly farther and spin more. However, what elements of the game have changed? We still drive from a tee box to a fairway, approach the green, and putt to a hole in the ground trying to stay at or under par. Disc golf has developed with the elevated basket as we know it today, its how we play the game and is a source of its individuality. We should continue implementing this device because it is a part of disc golf's fundamental identity. This identity, while related to ball golf, does not have to be as similar as possible in order for our sport to be valid. Disc golf will validate itself within the sports world by sticking to its roots.

Is there a picture of this basket ?



The first post on this thread has a picture of the TruPutt basket.


Two, in fact.

Is there a picture of this basket ?



The first post on this thread has a picture of the TruPutt basket.


Two, in fact.



Do all putts have to go through the top ?

Do all putts have to go through the top ?



I don't think there's any other way in.

Pere Marquette Park (http://home.comcast.net/~tradtuba/sgdgc.html)
Check out this basket design...homemade by a great local welder. The design was roughly based on the Ching portable, but they got the dimensions a bit wrong (even though, after they were built, I looked at the drawing I'd given them and it was correct, as to the width of the top surface...) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I figure if you can putt on these, you can putt on almost anything!
This will NOT be submitted for PDGA approval, in fact, I'm trying to get them to buy new baskets for the 9 holes, maybe use these as the first step toward expanding to 18. The course is about 60 miles south of St Louis, fwiw.

steve

Do all putts have to go through the top ?



I don't think there's any other way in.



it looks like if i'm only a couple feet away i can slide my disc sideways thru the chains and have it stay in.... :p

If that was true, then they'd fall out just as easily. I'm pretty sure that can't happen. Though I haven't actually seen one of these in person.

I'm beginning to wonder why it has chains in the first place. Why not just have solid sides instead of chains? I would think it'd be cheaper to build.

I still say keep that thing off the ball golf greens if you ever want to have another tournament at that ball golf course, even though it looks like it was designed to sit right above the ball golf hole.

Seriously. Spike hyzers cut into ball golf greens like a hot knife through warm butter.

This idea will never catch on because holing out from more than short distance away is next to impossible. In ball golf, both professionals and amateurs hole out from all sorts of distances: off the green, in the bunkers, on approach shots from both on the fairway and from the rough, and even making double eagles from 250 yards out on par fives.

I'm intrigued by the idea of increasing the number of shots around the green and making putting more of a premium in disc golf, but eliminating even the possibility of long range hole-outs should not be compromised.

I still say keep that thing off the ball golf greens if you ever want to have another tournament at that ball golf course, even though it looks like it was designed to sit right above the ball golf hole.



I say keep that thing off the moon because if you ever want to not have your disc fly away in the low gravity, even though it looks like it was designed to sit right on the moon.

I still say keep that thing off the ball golf greens if you ever want to have another tournament at that ball golf course, even though it looks like it was designed to sit right above the ball golf hole.



I say keep that thing off the moon because if you ever want to not have your disc fly away in the low gravity, even though it looks like it was designed to sit right on the moon.


I'm not sure what that reply is all about. Attempted geek humor? Oh well, I don't get it.

But my home course is par-56 executive ball golf course with permanent disc golf baskets, and I get to see first hand what golf discs do to ball golf greens.....and ours are OB so nobody is actually trying to land on them. Putting a disc golf target on a ball golf green is a very bad idea.

Rhett, I think you're tilting at windmills.
<ul type="square"> Saying that "it looks like it was designed to sit right above the ball golf hole" is just silly. You could say the same thing about any existing portable basket.
Nowhere on his site (at least not that I read) does he advocate putting these on ball golf greens.
You made the same comment earlier in the thread, and nobody disagreed with you, so you stated it again for what reason? Trying to provoke discussion?[/list]
I really don't think anyone disagrees with your premise that it's bad to throw golf discs on ball golf greens, but that premise is pretty much a non-sequiter to this thread.
Yeah yeah, in the pictures, he's got it on a ball golf green, maybe that's his back yard or something, maybe he's doing it for asthetics.

We played an alternate shot deal with disc and clubs/balls. Only putters were allowed to be thrown onto the greens, any other discs were OB on the greens. The holes had to be completed by putting a ball into the hole. More fun than dropping a disc into the baskethole and no hardware to buy!

If you want to create other disc golf hybrid games for a change of pace then by all means party on Wayne! While our baskets can be improved for more consistent catching, longer life, resistance to vandalism/theft, etc., there overall shape, size, and function rocks!

Our baskets, more than the discs we throw at them, are what define our sport.

Stupid idea...Go back to the drawing board, and throw the whole thing away.

Like this : " While our baskets can be improved for more consistent catching, longer life, resistance to vandalism/theft, etc., there overall shape, size, and function rocks! "
Our baskets, more than the discs we throw at them, are what define our sport.

I have played on many types of Baskets , PoleHoles , Ground Baskets etc.

This may be used for backyard play , but not for any Sanctioned Tournaments or PDGA use in Parks or on ANY Ball golf courses.

Keep Experimenting though !!!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

An important design characteristic of the original Disc Pole Hole was also that it's dimensions simulated the "target area" (torso) of a person with whom you would play catch. Remember that the original baskets were designed when players were throwing light plastic - Super Pros, Pros, World Class Frisbees, etc., so the target that Ed developed was an extension of the original intent of the flying disc - a toy with which to play catch.

When Rizbee Jr. and I warm up before a round, we play catch with an approach disc that floats/hovers (an old Discraft Skystreak), and when one of us throws acurately enough that the catcher doesn't have to move and the disc hits him in the gut, we yell "ching" to signify hitting the chains.

Targets for disc golf shouldn't move us away from the throwing skills necessary to play catch with a disc. Yes, I played on ground baskets a few times back in the 70's, but I never thought they made as much sense as our typical disc catching devices (or a post, tree or mailbox for that matter).

When Rizbee Jr. and I warm up before a round, we play catch with an approach disc that floats/hovers (an old Discraft Skystreak), and when one of us throws acurately enough that the catcher doesn't have to move and the disc hits him in the gut, we yell "ching" to signify hitting the chains.



Do you also make the sound of the back chains as the disc spits through? Of clank when them sliding off the chains and off the edge of the basket? Of the doink as the disc smacks off the pole and back out? Of the disc smashing chains and falling out the back side? ;)

One of the areas our sport can take a quantum leap is in the area of target design. Better functioning. Better looking. More fundamental. I like the ones we've got just like the next person, but have to admit, just from direct experience, that there at least appears to be plenty of room for improvement.

If that was true, then they'd fall out just as easily. I'm pretty sure that can't happen. Though I haven't actually seen one of these in person.



i meant as sit the disc inside the basket THRU the chains instead of dropping it into the top sort of like in "regulation" baskets where you can slide a disc thru the chains and drop it in the side of the basket away from you...i do it some of the time when holing out after having an easy putt cut thru the chains to keep myself calm, and prove that all discs cutting thru the chains don't have to come out of the basket :eek:

Keith, I don't think you can do that. I don't think the opening in the chains is big enough for the disc to enter (or exit). The only way in and out of this basket is through the top.