accidentalROLLER
Mar 27 2006, 05:37 PM
I played in a tourney (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=5779) , (and finally won) and there are no round ratings. Will I get rated for this tourney? There was an event last year at the same course with the same (2) pin locations and by comparing with the open rounds I should have a 1st round rating of 909 and a 2nd round rating of 950. Do you know what's going on?

Parkntwoputt
Mar 27 2006, 05:44 PM
Don't panic man.

Only unofficial results are given preliminary ratings.

Your event is listed as official. Once the event results are made official the preliminary ratings go away.

Your rounds should get rated, you had a good TD who turned in the results soon enough. Some TD's wait months, they are bad TD's.

accidentalROLLER
Mar 27 2006, 06:10 PM
OK, that's good. Also, just out of curiosity, if an open player shoots a 54, and I, (an Am), shoot a 54, do we get the same round rating? Or will my round rating be slightly higher?

ck34
Mar 27 2006, 06:15 PM
If it's in the same round, it will be the same. If it's another round, day or year, it could be higher or lower based on who's playing and weather. With our new adjustment factor, your status as am or pro won't make any difference.

Mar 28 2006, 02:07 PM
Chuck,

Gentry and Houck are in town this week and we had an issue come up and your opinion came up to answer a question.

What degree of slope would be too severe to put a basket on?

I would say the basket in question is on about a 30 degree slope, its defintly in a gray area.

bruce_brakel
Mar 28 2006, 03:13 PM
From a course design stand point, you could make an interesting risk/reward scenario if the basket were on a steep slope but there was a good flat landing zone in an area 20 to 50 feet away from the basket.

You see this kind of design in golf a lot where the pin is set near a sloping part of the green, or towards the bunker side of the green, and there is a large forgiving area on the green further away where a pro can put his approach shot but pretty much guarantee a two-putt. You also see this kind of design where the landing zone for a drive gets more precarious the farther you try to hit the ball.

In that case, the good course design is the one that successfully tempts some of the field to go for it while causing others to play it safe. It rewards each player for knowing his abilities and limitations and making a sensible decision in light of his position in the field and the number of holes remaining to be played.

ck34
Mar 28 2006, 03:16 PM
I'm not sure it's the slope that's the issue but how well the "green area" will hold a shot. Using my rules of thumb pertaining to thirds I posted a while back, if more than 1/3 of accurate throws landing on the green won't stay there and roll or slide away, it's unfair. So, if the green is really grassy or is a sand box (like Winthrop 6) or there's a big log 15-20 feet below the basket to stop rollaways, that would make the slope more fair. You've seen the retaining wall about 15 feet from the #18 basket at Winthrop. That's what makes that green fair, because you can throw a relatively safe upshot that will usually not go over that wall.

Mar 28 2006, 03:25 PM
Thats kind of what we came up with last night. A retaining wall would eliminate this convorsation all together here in Tulsa.

If you went by your 1/3 idea, it would be fair, but for those who would roll away would end up in a creek and very unlikely to make their next shot which would end up being a 2 stroke swing. Thats why it was debated last evening

ck34
Mar 28 2006, 03:30 PM
The retaining wall would also be better for erosion control and allow you to make the ground on the lower side of the basket a little less steep.

accidentalROLLER
Mar 28 2006, 03:41 PM
Are you talking about hole 2 at McClure?

gnduke
Mar 28 2006, 03:43 PM
There's one at Haikey that's steeper, but close enough to the top of the bank that it makes it challenging more than unfair.

Mar 28 2006, 03:49 PM
The new #2 at Dovillillilllillillioooo

Mar 28 2006, 04:00 PM
I'm a bad TD.

gnduke
Mar 28 2006, 04:03 PM
That was a very interesting location.

Very tough with the prevailing wind. I had a putt from 20' that ended up in the middle of the waterway.

I don't think the slope is too severe, and going for the birdie out over the bank instead of playing to the front of the basket is a very risky shot. It does involve some luck where some discs stay on the bank, but most go down.

As far as the rule of 1/3s, I'd say that 2/3 of the shots over the bank will end up at the water's edge or in the water. The high risk shot will yeild a 2 or a 4 most of the time. The safe shot straight at the basket, then lay up near the basket, then drop it in should give 3/4 of the field an easy 3 and some a dangerous putt at a 2.

I think it is a very good example of risk/reward where the expected result of the risky shot is to get wet.

Mar 28 2006, 04:04 PM
NO TD is a bad TD :D

ck34
Mar 28 2006, 04:12 PM
Like I said, I think the 1/3 idea is a little easier concept for designers to get their arms around rather than say 31 degreees is bad and 30 degrees slope is good because other factors are also intertwined.

Mar 28 2006, 04:30 PM
They suggested it should be shorter (315 foot range) but still use the basket on the slope

gnduke
Mar 28 2006, 05:09 PM
I think the hole played very well into an almost head wind for the MM1 division at GCD. Anything shorter would have taken a lot of the challenge out of the hole by making the safe 3 up the middle routine.

As it was, the straight route is tough because of the trees near the basket and length. A good drive still leaves you a 40'-60' upshot to a downhill green.

Going around the outside, over the slope is possible, but the disc has to stick on the landing. At the current length it's a huck that leaves the disc on a dangerous trajectory at landing. A very risky birdie attempt.

At 315', the player can soften the shot a lot more going around the back and get more of them to stick. It makes the birdie route easier, and the par route simple.