I�d like to hear a little more to the story, if there is more, of the reasons Ed might have given for rejecting Dave�s beveled edge disc patent. Seems to me this was one of the pivotal points in our disc golf history. I have speculation on the reasons but that was before my time in the sport. It sounds like a point when innovation was able to trump less well established infrastructure. Whereas today, certain innovations such as significant changes in basket design (smaller or Tru-putt) or holes in discs (longer throwing Aerobies) would likely not crack our existing structure in the sport.

I'd also like to hear the first hand account from. Malafronte, Rodrick, Johnson, and Fred Morrison have told their side of the history. It's time for Dave to write Innova's history. I would be the first in line for that book. Would be sweat with a picture of every Innova disc released.

I heard a rumor that the beveled edge frisbee was invented in 1979 by Alan Adler (the same guy who invented the Aerobie in 1980), and that he spun a few wooden ones on a lathe, they were made of balsa wood, and when he gave it to Whamo in 1979 they rejected it but showed the promo balsa wood models around and that's where people got the idea of the beveled edge disc.

Just a rumor?

I would have thought the idea occurred even earlier when people watched Odd Job whip his hat in Goldfinger...a little domey but effective...

I Googled it and Alan says in his own words:

"I developed several discs which had thinner rims than a Frisbee, and thus less drag and longer flights. But they were also less stable. After much research and experimentation without further progress, I shifted my design efforts to flying rings."

http://aerobie.com/Products/Details/RingScientificPaper.htm

It sounds as if he made some beveled edge discs but they didn't work because they were not stable, (and I would guess that the lightness of balsa wood did not help) so he then switched to flying rings. I guess the understable thing is where Dave came in and invented the massive rims to make them more gyroscopic and stable.

Thanks Dave!

from what i gathered through a few emails with Dave quite a while ago, he tried to sell the idea to several people including Ed, but everyone thought it wasn't worth pursuing (Snapper Pierson was the only one who said maybe.) Most of them evidently liked frisbees and were resistant to changing them. Fortunately Harold Duvall was ready to back Dave's idea financially without much hesitation when Dave let him know he thought the idea would revolutionize disc golf. Most great ideas throughout history are met with ridicule initially -- purists probably thought beveled-edged discs would ruin the game.

they outsourced the manufacturing at first, but quality control and other problems like that caused them to begin doing it themselves.

hopefully Dave will check in here. my memory is not the best anymore, and i wasn't playing disc golf 'back in the day.'

Tim Selinski might have seen the the wooden disc during the period when he was working at Wham-O.
Ed , Wham-O and other's might have had the attitude of, "if it's not my idea, it's no good". Sort of like that famous cartoon character when he always said, " go away boy, you bother me".

was that Foghorn Leghorn? :D

I heard a rumor that the beveled edge frisbee was invented in 1979 by Alan Adler (the same guy who invented the Aerobie in 1980), and that he spun a few wooden ones on a lathe, they were made of balsa wood, and when he gave it to Whamo in 1979 they rejected it but showed the promo balsa wood models around and that's where people got the idea of the beveled edge disc.

Just a rumor?


I heard that same rumor but the story ended with ED lighting the balsa wood on fire at the 1982 worlds and throwing it or something like that.

Actually form my research and evaluation of the 297 patent, innovas first patent application was rejected for claims on the bevevled edg,e among ather things, as there were already 3 given to a guy named morrison in 1979 for beveled egde disc ddesigns and descriptions in the embodiament of the invention.
Most patents are rejected on first application.
I saw the drawing from the 1979 patent and they were similiar to todays mid-range discs.
Innovas revised patent which was granted in 1985 went in the direction of gyroscopic effect.
something about enertia migrating towards the mass and lowering the profile and then doming back up on decleration creating lift.
( I'm jst going from memory ( or maybe it was a bad nightmare I had, but seemed to have blocked out most of it now) :mad::confused: :D

Do a patent search on the 4568297 and then search the patents cited for the invention.

That would never work. How fast would you have to spin a disc before it became less domey from the spin pulling the plastic outwards?

Nice idea though. Who wants to invent a disc that has more dome when it slows down? Then it would not fall off left at the end. Some sort of centrifugal clutch on the rim or something that pulls the dome flatter when it spins faster, the disc would turn into a putter when it slows down.