i know this disc is supposed to be the answer to the wraith and it comes out on the 24th. it appears to be avenger like. it has a little more glide and a tad bit more fade
Surge
Stability Rating: Speed: 9 Glide: 5 Turn: 0 Fade: +1.7
Avenger
Stability Rating: Speed: 9 Glide: 4 Turn: 0 Fade: +1.6

Discraft is the worst at rating there discs. I can think of 4-5 discs that have a 1.5 rating that are nothing like each other. I seriously doubt they would make a new disc that simular to the avenger.

All I can tell you is it goes further than my Avengers.

Discraft is the worst at rating there discs. I can think of 4-5 discs that have a 1.5 rating that are nothing like each other. I seriously doubt they would make a new disc that simular to the avenger.



Why would you doubt that Discraft would do that when Innova does it with almost ALL there discs. Starfire/Starfire_L/Starfire_X Firebird/Firebird_L/Firebird_X Teebird/Teebird_L Beast/2nd Mold Beast...........Need I go on???

Uh, none of those discs have the same rating:

Starfire 10 4 0 3
Starfire L 10 5 -1 2
Starfire X (same thing as a Starfire)

The Firebirds have the same ratings (but that's a mistake), the Teebirds have different numbers, as do the different molds of beats. Eagles are another example with differing ratings between the different mold variations.

I think they were stating that different molded discraft drivers often have the same number rating, when, in fact, they fly completley different. Discraft should consider extending its rating system to differentiate between drivers with the same rating.

Discraft should consider extending its rating system to differentiate between drivers with the same rating.



It cracked me up to see that a Z-MRV and a Z-Wasp had the same stability rating.

But in all fairness stability is truly in the arm of the disc thrower.

The Surge is supposed to be a Wraith like disc. Well my Wraith is less stable then my Avenger. I can handle a disc like that from discraft if it goes farther then my avenger.

I would say that Innova does do a better job of rating their discs then Discraft, but to me, it really does not affect what I am going to throw. I am going to throw a disc that fills a niche in my bag. I used to throw teebirds as stable fairway drivers and switched to Reapers. But after seeing my Reapers getting knocked around in the wind, I am debating on going back to Teebirds.

The only way to really tell if a disc is more stable then another is to go out and throw them exactly the same way and see what happens. When I get my hands on a Surge, I will throw it and my wraith over and over again to see which one I prefer.

The only problem with using the logic of trying out every disc is that not everybody has the means to do that. I rely on disc ratings and reviews when I want to try a new disc. I don't even pay attention to Discraft ratings anymore because they're such a joke. They don't tell me a thing.

It is not like I am going out and buying every new disc that comes out. I hear what other people are saying about them first, find out if I have or do not have a similar disc in my bag that is not being discontinued, if a particular disc could fill a void or replace a disc I am unhappy with I find someone who owns one first. Give it a throw or two before I decied to buy one myself. After a month of testing one I just bought, if I like it, I buy 7 more.

Here was a little feedback I posted on a different thread the other day...

I did get to throw them yesterday and was pleasantly surprised. They feel similar the the Avenger & Predator molds, doamed pretty good and the depth is similar to the Flash and Avengers. I wish I would have had some brand new Avengers to throw along with the Surge, to really compare. But my initial thought is they are way more overstable than what I expected. They fly more stable than X Avengers, maybe more like Z Avengers...They are really fast and carry nicely. I throw a normal backhand RH about 375 -400 and that disc flew a really easy 400 for me. I will try to throw them some more and give a bit more feed back, but I think they will be a nice addition. I definitely do not think this is a flip hyzer disc for normal arms, maybe the 500+ ft. throwers...just my 2 cents


I have not had another chance to throw them, but I do feel they are a bit more stable than expected. I have seen people flip Wraiths up and say the are way too touchy, I can tell you from first impressions, the Surge is not touchy. Perhaps if it gets a little beat, but out of the box it flew really stable for me, even in some headwind. Hope this helps, I think you will like it!

Lol.

I watched Justin Kerr flip his like it was a spectra today. I chunked it a couple of times and it seemed very touchy to me. Once you turn it over it aint coming out. But it did seem to be very fast.

Lol.

I watched Justin Kerr flip his like it was a spectra today. I chunked it a couple of times and it seemed very touchy to me. Once you turn it over it aint coming out. But it did seem to be very fast.



Not sure Chris, that is not the disc I threw. I got a box of 20 and of the 4 I threw, they all flew very true and stable? Maybe you are a BIG arm and put a lot more snap on it? As it was said before, all discs fly stable or unstable depending on how you throw them. All I know is I like it and it definitely found a spot in my bag! Good luck.....

Lol.

I watched Justin Kerr flip his like it was a spectra today. I chunked it a couple of times and it seemed very touchy to me. Once you turn it over it aint coming out. But it did seem to be very fast.



Not sure Chris, that is not the disc I threw. I got a box of 20 and of the 4 I threw, they all flew very true and stable? Maybe you are a BIG arm and put a lot more snap on it? As it was said before, all discs fly stable or unstable depending on how you throw them. All I know is I like it and it definitely found a spot in my bag! Good luck.....



I could take a Z-Predator and flip it but that isn't a good thing. Why is it that throwing really hard, off axis is the cool thing?

I have a really beat up CE TL that I can make turn left. OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! lmao

Lol.

I watched Justin Kerr flip his like it was a spectra today. I chunked it a couple of times and it seemed very touchy to me. Once you turn it over it aint coming out. But it did seem to be very fast.



Sounds like the same qualities as a wraith.

My only problems with the wraith have been it turning over when I broke my wrist on the snap, but I really cannot blame that on the disc now can I?

This disc BOMBS!

Does anyone know if we might be able to get the Surge at the Memorial in AZ? Will Discraft, or any dealers have them for sale? I would order one, but since they will not be released to non-pro sponsored players until then, there is no way to get some before the Memorial.

I could have bought one last Sunday from a vendor at our Big Chill so they're out there.

Does anyone know if we might be able to get the Surge at the Memorial in AZ? Will Discraft, or any dealers have them for sale? I would order one, but since they will not be released to non-pro sponsored players until then, there is no way to get some before the Memorial.



Here is one... :D

Surge (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7220376363&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1)

It throws exactly like Mountain Dew or Moon Mist for me. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Now that's funny! :D
BTW, who the helll comes up with the names for these discs? Discraft has probably worn out their thesaurus to shreds.

Now that's funny! :D
BTW, who the helll comes up with the names for these discs? Discraft has probably worn out their thesaurus to shreds.



Be careful of the surge !!!! You might explode !!!
http://www.volnation.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/focus.gif

Now that's funny! :D
BTW, who the helll comes up with the names for these discs? Discraft has probably worn out their thesaurus to shreds.



Be careful of the surge !!!! You might explode !!!
http://www.volnation.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/focus.gif



If this disc is the new long distance driver, out shining all other disc. Will Innova come out with the Surge Protector?

Boneman,

I will be at the Memmorial and I can bring you a couple if you would like.

Kirk

I finally got the chance to go out and field test this disc yesterday. I threw it alongside a Z-Avenger, a slightly worn in Z-Wildcat, a Sparkle Tsunami, an X-Avenger, and a Z-Tracker. All I can say is BOOM!!! I was throwing on a marked athletic field with plenty of field beyond the end. I probably max at around 430 or so in golf distance, but can throw a good bit farther than that when accuracy is not of concern and wind is on my side. My longest throws were with the Z-Avenger, the Z-Wildcat, and the ESP Surge. My longest throws with the Z-Avenger and Z-Wildcat were around 490-500. However, I got two throws with the Surge that measured between 530 and 540, which even in ideal conditions are VERY long for me. The thing that was most impressive to me about this disc was that my bad throws were still going a long way, and that is because this disc has so much glide. As far as stability goes, the Surge was less stable than my Z-Avenger by a good margin. When I turned around to throw back into the headwind, I could get the Z-Avenger to fly straight when I snapped it with a little hyzer. When I threw the Surge the same way it quickly turned over. This disc was made for one thing and one thing only, and that is PURE distance. It is definitely going into my bag to fill that role. Enjoy.

How would the Mr. Hedberg know that hitting the guy is more satisfying than a hole-in-one if he never aced? That just makes no sense...

-E

How would the Mr. Hedberg know that hitting the guy is more satisfying than a hole-in-one if he never aced? That just makes no sense...

-E



huh?

How would the Mr. Hedberg know that hitting the guy is more satisfying than a hole-in-one if he never aced? That just makes no sense...

-E



A person is a moving target, baskets are stationary....

How would the Mr. Hedberg know that hitting the guy is more satisfying than a hole-in-one if he never aced? That just makes no sense...

-E



A person is a moving target, baskets are stationary....



Every time I yell FOUR................the basket seems to jump out of the way !!!! :eek:

Jim are you playing this weekend? If so I want to look at this disc. :D

maybe u should yell fore then

Sounds like the Surge is a Flash in disguise ?

I just want to look at the design. :D

It looks like the wraith but it feels wierd. I think that it similar to the Pro Starfire in flight.

Definitely not a flash. This disc has more dome to it and is much easier to control. The Flash is also less stable. It's been awhile since I've thrown the flash, but I think it's probably faster out of the hand than the Surge.

Matt - No, I won't be there this weekend... Try and get that cousin of mine to cash!! And good luck to you too!!

2/3 of Team FlyNhighDiscgolf.com will need to represent!

Give it to Robbie then. Have fun no-show Jimbob :D

If that I'm hearing here is correct my bag may soon be Discraft only for driving... :-X Avenger+Surge combo... fun :-)

Now that's funny! :D
BTW, who the helll comes up with the names for these discs? Discraft has probably worn out their thesaurus to shreds.



Be careful of the surge !!!! You might explode !!!
http://www.volnation.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/focus.gif



If this disc is the new long distance driver, out shining all other disc. Will Innova come out with the Surge Protector?



I was expecting the Vault next year myself...

I walked out of the factory this morning with the last Surge ESP but I could hear machines humming in the back so maybe they are making more.

Looks a lot like and feels a lot like a Star Starfire L. I stopped at Wolverine Park a mile north of the factory to throw it along with a Star Starfire L. The conditions were cold, dense air and slightly breezy headwinds and tailwinds.

For a guy who gets 350 on a good throw and is happy with anything 325 and up, the Surge had a little more glide and a little less fade than the SSL. Into the wind it had a little bit of turn but did not burn out. The wind was light and beezy. It seemed a bit longer for me than the SSL. Upwind I was getting 325-330 and downwind 350 or so except one boomer that caught the wind right and went more like 375. The Starfire was right out there too, but a little more left and short.

I drove some more north and east and stopped at Hess Hathaway where I could throw cross-wind. There I was definately getting longer drives with less fade with the Surge.

The ESP plastic is a lot like the Star. Similar grippiness when warm. When they are cold, I don't get much advantage from ESP or Star versus candy plstic.

This Surge is a keeper. It is completely taking away my desire to put an SSL in my bag. I hope they produce it in Z.

I agree a lot with Jim, after throwing it a bit more, they are a little less stable than I gave it credit for. Surely not as stable as the Z Avengers, but more than the X Avengers. I think the first time I threw them I was only in calm or tail wind conditions :D. In headwinds they were flipping up and in big headwinds they were usually not coming back. I still think they are a great addition to the bag in the right conditions!

I think I'm in love!

I think I'm in love!



aww, come on! you gotta give a better review than that.

I agree a lot with Jim, after throwing it a bit more, they are a little less stable than I gave it credit for. Surely not as stable as the Z Avengers, but more than the X Avengers. I think the first time I threw them I was only in calm or tail wind conditions :D. In headwinds they were flipping up and in big headwinds they were usually not coming back. I still think they are a great addition to the bag in the right conditions!



Sounds like an X Avenger replacer for my bag. I carry an X as I can throw it further than my Z Avengers, but I'll only throw it down wind as it's not QUITE stable enough to mask my subtle wrist roll I've been getting when trying to bomb em. I don't turn it over hard enough to make it look like it's gonna be a roller, but it's enough that it finishes straight.

Lol.

I watched Justin Kerr flip his like it was a spectra today. I chunked it a couple of times and it seemed very touchy to me. Once you turn it over it aint coming out. But it did seem to be very fast.



I held his disc up beside one of my wraiths, and marveled at the similarity. The Discraft wraith should be a hot seller!

I mean seriously, that's pretty close. Thisclose.

Boom! is all i have to say about this disc!

yes its simalar to a wraith, but who cares! If you love discraft they just got better!

This Surge is a keeper. It is completely taking away my desire to put an SSL in my bag.




A keeper indeed!

I found it really easy to throw. It was more overstable than i expected after hearing it was a retooled FLASH. It appears to have a FLASH bottom mold and a new domier top mold.

The Surge didn't seem to fall out of the sky like a Flash does at slow speeds, it just kept on gliding. I'm guessing the domey top helps keep some air underneath her wings.

I can see the HUGE DISTANCE throwers tossing this thing a mile because i was able to get 420'+ at 75% power.

Incidentally, what's a wraith? :D

Name: wraith
Difficulty: 8
Base level: 6
Base experience: 123
Speed: 12
Base AC: 4
Base MR: 15
Alignment: -6
Frequency: Quite rare
Genocidable: Yes
ATTACK:
Touch: Drains an experience level
Weight: 0
Nutritional value: 0
Size: medium
Resistances: cold, sleep, poison, petrification
Resistances conveyed by eating: None
A wraith can fly/float. Due to its unusual body chemistry, It has no need to breathe. It is humanoid. It has an insubstantial body.

haha...

down in the MUD?

LOL.

Well the SURGE of magic that my wizards and paladins will come forth with will be too strong for the wraith. :D

I was only able to throw it a couple of times, but it was awesome. It was fast and more stable then I thought it was going to be. The glide is unbelievable. I will have a more detailed report once I get some more in and some more time. It is definitely going in the bag.

LOL.

Well the SURGE of magic that my wizards and paladins will come forth with will be too strong for the wraith. :D



Which company makes the Paladin?

I think it's Blizzard ... and of course they are owned by Microsoft.
Paladins need to be NURFED, lol.
I think Microsoft also just aquired the Devilhawk and plans to use it as a high altitude satalite for their new MP3 players.
(ok, i'm putting the crack pipe away now)

LOL.

Well the SURGE of magic that my wizards and paladins will come forth with will be too strong for the wraith. :D



So you are putting with a Wizard now? :D

D'OH....should have used the word "sorcerers" instead. :D :p

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA your stuck :D

these things go so faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

I got some 1st Run Surges for sale......
http://stores.ebay.com/Channel-Zs-Disc-Golf-Fly-Mart_AVENGER-TRACKER-FLICK-SURGE_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ12QQftidZ2QQtZkm

whats the low speed fade like on these?

these things go so faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!



My wife ordered one for me. It's supposed to arrive in about 4 days.
From what I've read this is gonna be an awesome driver!

whats the low speed fade like on these?



Very minimal. The disc just carries and carries.

I had the chance to throw a brand new 174 next to a brand new 175 pro wraith the other day. I am not that impressed, I was throwing them within about 15ft. of each other, but my wraiths were going that far on a srtaight line where as the surge had a very nice distance line on it. I don't think this disc is quite as fast as the wraith and I don't see it replacing my wraith.

BTW spped does not equal distance. I just wanted to say that since everyone thinks it does. :confused:

Go thorw that Wraith into a couple of trees, then get back to us.

I like the Dx Wraith .............................but then again , I live west of the rockies where most discs are stable.

When I do travel East of the rockies , I throw more understable plastic , unless I head South.

Altitude , Humidity , Air Pressure all play factors in disc flight and performance.

You really have to know your plastic well............... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Go thorw that Wraith into a couple of trees, then get back to us.



:D


Nice shoot'n at Z-Boaz Chris!

Thanks Hero!

I just had one of those weekends where everything went right.

Now back to the topic.

The Surge is the bomb!!!


I have had 30 footers on 2 holes at my home course, that I never reach. This disc kicks some serious *****!!

I had the chance to throw a brand new 174 next to a brand new 175 pro wraith the other day. I am not that impressed, I was throwing them within about 15ft. of each other, but my wraiths were going that far on a srtaight line where as the surge had a very nice distance line on it. I don't think this disc is quite as fast as the wraith and I don't see it replacing my wraith.



Can you tell me what the difference between a distance line and a straight line is?

Are you referring to a hyzer shot, or an anhyzer?

I guess I am confused because when I throw for distance I throw in a straight line.

This is a good example where it would be nice to have Pat's ratings rankings right there instead of having to do the click-click, "oh," back-back thing! :D Do the click-click-back-back and tell me you don't say, "oh," to yourself. :o

My distance line is a long s-curve. I threw it flat out to the left it flipped a little bit and had a long s to it. This is just my opinion, which is kind of bias because I am a huge supporter of innova, but I think the wraith is a little bit faster.

I know that wraiths beat up fast, I still carry the one in my bag from when they first came out. I was simply comparing a brand new wraith to a brand new surge.

i feel that speed depends on rim width. wraith, illusion, spectre/venom/flash seem to be fastest/widest, with the orc/beast/starfire/surge/flash/crush slightly slower [narrower rim]

i just went click-click-"OH, i see what bruce means"-back-back.

then i said i cant wait to throw my surge in the round tomorrow morning :D

I'm not really sure how speed is even relevant. I'd be happy if my disc took ten minutes if I could get it to go 600 feet on a 600 foot hole! :D

Throwing the Surge today, I overthrew some holes I don't normally reach. On the soccer field I was getting, "Wow," distance according to Kelsey's unrehearsed reactions.

Ok, this post will only be truly understood by people who have played my home course...

We shot the beast today for leagues and I tried the round with my normal 169 beat up Z Avenger with a new 172 ESP Surge. Snow was deep, so there weren't any skips. Wind was minimal to none. Tee pads were calf deep snow and ice.

First time I threw it was hole C (335ish with about a 20 foot uphill at the end). Normally my avenger is just barely to the top of the hill and left. I put the surge 40 feet past the basket on a straight line with it.

Next throw was hole 11 (480ish along the road). Normally my avenger is about 60 feet short of 'the box' which is rumoured to be 400 feet. I think calling it 400 feet is being optimistic for those who believe a big arm makes their..... feet bigger. I was just short of that box.

Throw 3 was on hole 15 (360ish double dog leg left, with a very long hyzer line). It was a poor choice of disc for this hole as you want something that will ride a long hyzer. Normally I throw a pred here as I can't turn it up to flat. Anyways, this was likely my longest throw on the day, getting almost all the way to 16's tee pad. I have NO clue what the distance is on this.

Throw 4 was on hole 18 (425 feet that plays a gentle S nicely). I was a bit weary of trying to release it dead flat to see how it'd S so I tried it, but aimed at goliath 1's Tee. It definately turned right for me for most of it's flight. Not a hard turn, just a long gentle one. The shocker was when we got to my disc, and I was 10 feet past the basket(triangle tee-basket, then the perpendicular line, I was about 80 feet left, 10 feet long which would make the drive sqrt(435^2 + 80^2) Which is about 442 feet, give or take the fact that we were eyeballing it. Also not taken into account is the fact that you likely get 18-20 feet of free distance due to elevation on this hole.

Throw 5 was hole 1 (557 feet or something like that, TALL hill to tall hill, probably a net change of 50 feet down). Here, apparently, I decided to test the durability of the surge. I generally try to throw low, just above the tree/shrub thingys to play it safe due to the cross wind. Well, I found them today. All was not lost because after 2 tree skips, I still managed to get out around 350 (**** amazing glide on this thing, even new). Upon inspection of the disc by me and Jeff Schwass (he kept saying he needs a surge), there wasn't even a sign that it had hit something. Both trees were glancing blows, but no scuffs.

My final, and 6th toss, was on hole 4 (I'd guess, 380 linear across a 'river(road)' a long field fairway, across another 'river', up a 30-40 foot hill). Jeff has this 'Bush' that's about 20 feet up the hill on the far side of the second road that he has a tendancy to stick into. I, jokingly, said I'd like to stay out of his bush. Well, it looked like I was in it when I released, but I got a good 30 feet past it and up the hill, leaving me my first legitimate 2 attempt on that hole.

All of those shots (except 18) were probably 80-90% power (taking it easy on my elbow), with maybe 10 degrees of hyzer, nothing big, just enough to get a solid flight line out of it, and on crappy surfaces. It went WELL further than any other disc I've ever thrown.

That's crazy distance. Was the wind off the lake?

I was throwing it right handed and left handed at Kensington today. We played short tees so I threw it for lefty shots more than righty shots. The plastic does seem very durable. I had at least three lefty birdies.

this thing sucked!!!!

That's funny b/c i threw it very well today...even into the wind at times.

this thing sucked!!!!

click, click, oh, back, back. lol :D

this thing sucked!!!!

click, click, oh, back, back. lol :D




HA! So true.

I was watching our course pro throw his today. It held a nice flat line very well. His synopsis is that it is slightly more stable then the Wraith. I would buy one and test it myself. But I just preregistered for my next five events, plus the check for Worlds is on the desk. So I am spent as far as disc golf expenses go. But as soon as I get some money, I am buying one. Maybe they will have it in Z plastic by then.

I had the chance to throw a brand new 174 next to a brand new 175 pro wraith the other day. I am not that impressed, I was throwing them within about 15ft. of each other, but my wraiths were going that far on a srtaight line where as the surge had a very nice distance line on it. I don't think this disc is quite as fast as the wraith and I don't see it replacing my wraith.



Can you tell me what the difference between a distance line and a straight line is?

Are you referring to a hyzer shot, or an anhyzer?

I guess I am confused because when I throw for distance I throw in a straight line.


For myself a distance line (ie: a 400-420 foot throw, my longest throws) comes out of my hand on a hyzer angle and does a nice hyzer flip over into a slight anhyzer glide before finally flattening, gliding some more, and coming into the green area on a fade.


-Chris.

That's crazy distance. Was the wind off the lake?

I was throwing it right handed and left handed at Kensington today. We played short tees so I threw it for lefty shots more than righty shots. The plastic does seem very durable. I had at least three lefty birdies.



We had, maybe, a few gusts to 4 mph today. It was amazing out. We were all in sweatshirts and jeans trudging through knee deep snow.

this thing sucked!!!!

click, click, oh, back, back. lol :D



That! was one of the funniest things i've read here in a long, long time!!!!! :D:D:D:D

I love the new plastic its in. Grippy. I have thrown it a couple times and it seems a bit stable, but all the guys I let throw it loved the heck out of it and threw it suprisingly far for the weanie arms they are. :)

I love the new plastic its in. Grippy. I have thrown it a couple times and it seems a bit stable, but all the guys I let throw it loved the heck out of it and threw it suprisingly far for the weanie arms they are. :)



I think your the Best for calling some guys weenie arms !!!!! :D

this thing sucked!!!!



Yeah it sucks...If you hate throwing 500' hyzerflips.

I almost forgot...If you have actual snap, try throwing this...Just don't expect it to come up as short as a Wraith would.

this thing sucked!!!!

click, click, oh, back, back. lol :D


I'd like linked PDGA numbers to be next to the avatars so it would only take one click to see who a poster really was. Too much display name changing around here to keep up.

do you think if Pat had placed PDGA numbers there instead of rankings/ratings the air would have been left in the tires?
Then it would just be a click-back instead of a click-click-back-back :D

this is how is should be displayed (http://www.earthoffice.net/discgolf/board.html)

that's a pretty cool roll-over-the-id-with-your-mouse-to-reveal-ratings-info (http://www.earthoffice.net/discgolf/board.html) feature. could people shy about their rating turn it off? then again, they can't opt out of the present id->pdga#->rating info linkage so why would it matter?

i guess if it were to happen it would have to be opt out. i do like the rollover thing... saves space on the page, and is a LOT more meaningful than the Member# you get on the current site - its not even your pdga number, just a number that means nothing at all.

ps: everyone dont forget Chuck on your thoughts and prayers!

Which is easier to throw? Wraith or Surge? The wraith is very nose-angle dependant. Is the surge the same way?

Which is easier to throw? Wraith or Surge? The wraith is very nose-angle dependant. Is the surge the same way?



I've found the surge to be VERY nose angle dependant as well. Not quite as bad as the flash is when it gets nose up, but it definately like to be thrown flat. Fortunately for me, I've never been one of those 150 feet in the air throwers.

This disc just flat out bombs! Longest disc I've ever thrown!

the surge is looooooong. i am throwiing ti slightly tail down, probably due to a mental thing with a new disc and it is stretching out as far as a perfectly thrown distance driver. i cant wait to get over the "new disc syndrome" and see what it does thrown flat.

it doesnt seem overly super-duper "fast", but so many discs are fast these days i am not sure what constitutes "fast" anymore.

it doesnt seem overly super-duper "fast", but so many discs are fast these days i am not sure what constitutes "fast" anymore.



While the out of the hand speed isn't overly 'fast', it does seem to have an incredible glide speed.

Is the surge more overstable then the wraith?

I hope Dcraft makes this disc in Z...ESP is cool, but no matter what anyone tells you about star or ESP plastic; Z and Champ. plastic has a way longer life span.

It appears that the Z Surge is going to happen

It appears that the Z Surge is going to happen



SWEET! :D

Non-Bias opinion of the Surge:
I don't think it flies further than the Pro-Wraith. The plastic might be a bit more durable than the Pro-Wraith, but I think the disc's flight is about the same, I have thrown it for the past couple days and haven't found it to be any more overstable than the Wraith like I have been hearing. Neither have I experienced it outflying the Wraith distance-wise. I have to put A LOT of hyzer on the disc to keep it from flipping over on me. And I have been testing two different Surges in two different weights!

For all you who have experienced otherwise, that's great, but from my honest non-partisan viewpoint, it's not the super disc ppl are making it out to be. Good, but not anything "phenom" worthy. I am not getting any difference in distance between my Avenger / Wraith / Surge / ProStarfire so far. And I can still out throw all those discs with my Z-Predator. I will continue to test the Surge and if anything changes, I will definitely come back and document my error.

That said, I would love to see the disc in Zplastic, I don't really like the feel of the ESP plastic so far, feels too flimsy.

I hear this is a updated version of the Flash ?

I hear this is a updated version of the Flash ?


I don't think so Donny, if you hold the two discs up, it doesn't seem very similar in my opinion. The Surge is more like a Wraith or Pro-Starfire. If you took the hotstamp off, people would think it's a Wraith. The Flash had a much different wing, and was much more flat.

I hear this is a updated version of the Flash ?


I don't think so Donny, if you hold the two discs up, it doesn't seem very similar in my opinion. The Surge is more like a Wraith or Pro-Starfire. If you took the hotstamp off, people would think it's a Wraith. The Flash had a much different wing, and was much more flat.



The rim profile of my 172 Surge is indistinguishable from the rim profile of my 166 flash. I have been throwing a flash for about a year and a half and they feel nearly the same in my hand. Yes, the Surge is domey while the flash is flat topped, but that seems to be the only noticible difference.

I thought my Flash had a concave under rim whereas the Surge is almost flat, but I'll have to check when I'm in the car.

I thought my Flash had a concave under rim whereas the Surge is almost flat, but I'll have to check when I'm in the car.



Both my flash and my surge have a concave bottom half of the rim.

I hear this is a updated version of the Flash ?


I don't think so Donny, if you hold the two discs up, it doesn't seem very similar in my opinion. The Surge is more like a Wraith or Pro-Starfire. If you took the hotstamp off, people would think it's a Wraith. The Flash had a much different wing, and was much more flat.



The rim profile of my 172 Surge is indistinguishable from the rim profile of my 166 flash. I have been throwing a flash for about a year and a half and they feel nearly the same in my hand. Yes, the Surge is domey while the flash is flat topped, but that seems to be the only noticible difference.



Thanks for the update. I'll go check the difference between the decks/ flight plates.

this thing sucked!!!!

click, click, oh, back, back. lol :D


I'd like linked PDGA numbers to be next to the avatars so it would only take one click to see who a poster really was. Too much display name changing around here to keep up.



And I thought I was the only one that did that in order to apply a 'weighting' to posts. I think it should just be listed under the avatar.

Then one of us got a freaky disc.

I just went out in the rain and felt around in the dark in my car for my Surge and a Flash. The under rim of the Flash is concave from the outer edge to the inner edge, much like a Crush or a Champion Starfire. The under rim of the Surge is very slightly convex near the outer rim with a very slight concavity near the inner rim, more like a Star Wraith than a Star SL. The under rim of the Surge is almost flat but the Flash has a definate concaveness.

I've got all these discs sitting here because I recently merched up for IOS #1.

I was throwing the Surge at league today. The plastic is durable. I took a tree whap every time we played #5.

The surge is nothing like the Flash.

I imagine if you over tourqe the Surge it will flip over like the flash. But as far as feel and design of the rim, the surge and flash are opposites.

I think Pat received the wrong surge.

Then one of us got a freaky disc.



AHA!, you are correct. I just retrieved one of the surges from my shelf and the rim starts concave then transitions to convex towards the tip, the one I've thrown DOESN'T do that. Interesting......

surge and flash have the same rim width as starfire, orc, beast. narrower by .2 cm. than the wraith. [or spectra/flick for that matter] you can feel the difference between the surge and the wraith when you grip them.

Wow, if you can feel a 2mm width difference, then you should go into tool & die.

I cannot wait for the Z-Surge. ZI Zwant, Zthe Z Zsurge

seems to me as disc's rims get wider, the disc gets faster. how wide do you think they will get? there is no limit now. i assume they will keep gradually increasing [faster] until they get uncomfortable [play around with the grip of an epic]. you can really feel that little of a difference if you hold both back and forth a few times. i like the narrower teebird size rim for comfort/control, but will pull out the wraith for long, open, fast shots. the surge feels better than the orc to me [which it reminds me of], and i like the esp plastic. can't wait to throw one.

2mm is "enough to drive a truck through" in engineering speak.

I measure that the Wraith rim is 2mm wider than a Starfire-L. I cannot properly grip a Wraith due to that 2mm and my stubby fingers...it simply slips out of my hand. I don't have that problem with my SL.

Two millimeters rim width difference is very significant for me...

-E

1.8 cm--valk,f-bird,vike,swinder,predator, avenger
2.0 cm--crush, flash, surge, beast, orc, monster, starfire
2.2 cm--wraith, tee-rex, flick,spectra, gateway's long drivers

these are estimated and i'm sure i left out some. i guess if one had to know exactly, you could check the pdga specs. what will be 2.4?

1.8 cm--valk,f-bird,vike,swinder,predator, avenger
2.0 cm--crush, flash, surge, beast, orc, monster, starfire
2.2 cm--wraith, tee-rex, flick,spectra, gateway's long drivers

these are estimated and i'm sure i left out some. i guess if one had to know exactly, you could check the pdga specs. what will be 2.4?


What is a tee-rex? Gateway will probably come out with the first 2.4

What is a tee-rex?



It's the newest disc from Innuhhvuuhh...The 3 disc set will be sold at sporting goods stores, K-marts and Wal-marts all over the country. It consists of the Tee-Rex driver, Apatosaurus mid-range, and the Stegosaurus putter. Oooh oohh can I name the next ones?

Putting a 2.2 cm rim driver in the hands of children is just silly. I gave a demo in FL and when some kid, who was supposed to be putting, ran 100' and picked up my champ Wraith and then threw it forward from behind his friends, I was at a full-out sprint across the field. Luckily for him his bus showed up!

So, what's the general consensus on the Surge's stability? Z Avenger-ish? X?

seems to me as disc's rims get wider, the disc gets faster. how wide do you think they will get? there is no limit now. i assume they will keep gradually increasing [faster] until they get uncomfortable [play around with the grip of an epic]. you can really feel that little of a difference if you hold both back and forth a few times. i like the narrower teebird size rim for comfort/control, but will pull out the wraith for long, open, fast shots. the surge feels better than the orc to me [which it reminds me of], and i like the esp plastic. can't wait to throw one.



As the rim gets wider, the profile (heigth) gets shallower. This leads to less air resistance which equals more speed and distance. There is a limit, as a 2.4+ cm rim would probably be too shallow to properly grip.

Putting a 2.2 cm rim driver in the hands of children is just silly. I gave a demo in FL and when some kid, who was supposed to be putting, ran 100' and picked up my champ Wraith and then threw it forward from behind his friends, I was at a full-out sprint across the field. Luckily for him his bus showed up!

So, what's the general consensus on the Surge's stability? Z Avenger-ish? X?



I'd put it as a More Overstable X Avenger than a Less Overstable Z Avenger. Definately grips differently though. It grips more like a flash. The step from an avenger to a surge is like what the step from an X2 to an Avenger was for me.

What is a tee-rex? Gateway will probably come out with the first 2.4



The Epic already have a more than 2,4 rim ;), 2,5-4,1 mm.

So who's going to be the first company to vary the rim depth but keep the mass distribution balanced? Say a 2.0-3.8 configuration? Basically have an oval type rim. Fast but easy to grip!


Patent applied for!

I would definitely include one in the bag for long range bombs or flip hyzers. I still throw the flash on long golf holes, just because of my comfort level in throwing it flat. When distance is more key than accuracy though, I don't think that you can beat the surge. The domey rim seems to just keep the disc in the air forever. Pick up one today and you won't be sorry.

So, what's the general consensus on the Surge's stability? Z Avenger-ish? X?


I would definitely put it less than the Z-Avenger! In between is probably a safe estimate.

Be careful with this thing into a headwind, it will flip and go a mile in the wrong direction! :)

I agree that its less stable than a Z Avenger. It's definitely in my bag though, and when the Z Surge comes out I think that will be the best distance disc-assuming that its more overstable...Now if they can make a disc like the Monster I can completeley be rid if Innova. The Monster is the most useful utility disc out there at the moment.

Z-Xtreme?

I'm pretty sure our rim Length of the Speed Demon,Spirit and Illusion is still the longest other than the epic!
I know the Illusion is the most Gyroscopic in terms of rim weight in proportion to flight plate! again besides the epic.
Is the epic a real golf disc that people who play events use and if so, has enyone ever been beaten by any body in a pdga event who used one for anything other than tomahawks.

The rule is that the rim depth has to be at leats 5% of the diameter of the discs.

Any rim bigger than a 1-1/4 inch would most likely need finger grips that were actually ON THE RIM.

I see future distance discs being created by other means than speed, like Gryroscopic weight distribution combined with lift, glide and surface friction.
Remember most TRUE distance records were set with DX or Matted style discs.

The DRY LAKE BED, thermal updraft Jet stream aided distance record has actually ruined distance contests.
Because the record can only be broken in one place no one will run events enymore!
If the record can only be broken at that one place on earth, is that a real record? :confused:

Not to take anything away for Christian, but I think the distance record needs a BIG asterik by it!

The Epic.... Yea Ive see it thrown thumber style so that it flips around several times and then comes out flat and flies straight for another 100 or so feet. Pretty incredible. But Im pretty sure thats the only use for that disc.

i agree with dave's distance comp comments. maybe it should be a yearly record, thrown at a different comp/location [not the lake bed] each year. a location that actually mimics golf conditions.

finally started releasing it level with the flight plane. i liked it! in a tail wind i went flat and got a very smooth, long glide. in a head wind i threw with hyzer and got a beautiful S, but not with the wide curves an Avenger would require. came up about 15' short on vet's long 17, about a 415 hole, into a solid 10-15 headwind.

it flies like a modenized XL.

Thanks Hero!

I just had one of those weekends where everything went right.

Now back to the topic.

The Surge is the bomb!!!


I have had 30 footers on 2 holes at my home course, that I never reach. This disc kicks some serious *****!!



Yeap! I finally broke 330' with this disc UPWIND! I love this disc and it's tendancy to just float and float and float. I played with a friend today and threw the surge on a couple long holes. He's like "Wow! That disc has some serious glide!" it just kept gliding till it hit a tree hard. I know some folks are just not gonna like this disc and compare it to a wraith saying it sux. We all have our opinions and we are entitled to them. I've stated mine.

The DRY LAKE BED, thermal updraft Jet stream aided distance record has actually ruined distance contests.
Because the record can only be broken in one place no one will run events enymore!
If the record can only be broken at that one place on earth, is that a real record? :confused:

Not to take anything away for Christian, but I think the distance record needs a BIG asterik by it!


Actually, the location of the competetion is irrelevent as long as you have the cream of the crop distance throwers in the field. The whole idea is to see how far we can throw a plastic GOLF disc.

dunno about that. for the official record there should be some set of standards. wind, altitude and terrain come to mind, but there may be more.

for the unoffical record, go throw in whatever conditions you can find, wherever you want. throw with a favorable wind at 10,000 feet and set a "record". but that shouldnt be a world distance record.

dunno about that. for the official record there should be some set of standards. wind, altitude and terrain come to mind, but there may be more.

for the unoffical record, go throw in whatever conditions you can find, wherever you want. throw with a favorable wind at 10,000 feet and set a "record". but that shouldnt be a world distance record.


It's called "controlled environment". Ken Jarvis talked a lot about wanting a "controlled environment" distance competition. Probably have to be done in an airplane hanger or something. I doubt you'd see people throwing past 650' if that.

An airplane hanger may be a little too extreme.

How about at sea level with no more than 10mph winds. 650' would be HUGE in those conditions.

I used to work for Lockheed Martin their assembly line building is a mile long. Not enough room for me but or those guys, maybe.... :D

This disc sounds like a flippy Pro Wraith in Discraft plastic ?

Maybe Z plastic will make it stable ?

A Wraith for Discraft throwers. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Would it be considered a tail wind disc ?

I didnt think it was flippy, it seemed stable to me.

This disc sounds like a flippy Pro Wraith in Discraft plastic ?

Maybe Z plastic will make it stable ?

A Wraith for Discraft throwers. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Would it be considered a tail wind disc ?



I have thrown a light one 171g, and it flipped up and held flat for a long time. So it seemed fairly stable to me. I imagine once I get my hands on a 174g Z-Surge it will be what I am looking for.

Right now I am using a CFR Wraith for moderate headwinds when I really want to push long-D. Most of the time I will just use the Avenger. But into the headwinds, I have to release the wraith with hyzer and it will S out a good ways. I am thinking I will not have to put as much hyzer on the Z-Surge when I get it.

"174g Z-Surge it will be what I am looking for."

Would this disc go farther than a Crystal Tsunami ?

I would guess that it would... The ESP version certainly does.

I had my longest throw ever on Hole 11 at Tom Bass (Wilmont) this past Sunday with the surge. Hole 11 is a long hole that is relatively open (a good shot will anhyzer around a group of trees approximately 300 feet into the fairway, with another 350-400ish feet to the basket). I typically throw a mid-range for my second shot on this hole (and a driver if my tee-shot is poor). But I knew my drive was long when I had a 150ish upshot with my Swirl APX.

I am continually impressed by the glide on this disc.

The surge is plenty long -- is it longer than the other long drivers of the day . . . . dunno -- maybe it's me but throwing the new drivers it seems like splitting hairs to decide which one is the longest. Unlike when the first Valkryies came out or the first Beasts -- I don't really remember a disc living up to all the message board hype.

A wraith goes far as does a surge as does an avenger as does an orc . . .. they all kind of morph into one disc after a while.

The plastic however does vary -- I like the ESP stuff, although the new DX Wraiths feel real good too. I think the first DX Orc stuff was the best -- better even than the current DX which is wayy more better than the previous couple of years.

The ESP stuff is the only non-z Discraft plastic that I've liked in quite a while.

The surge is plenty long -- is it longer than the other long drivers of the day . . . . dunno -- maybe it's me but throwing the new drivers it seems like splitting hairs to decide which one is the longest. Unlike when the first Valkryies came out or the first Beasts -- I don't really remember a disc living up to all the message board hype.

A wraith goes far as does a surge as does an avenger as does an orc . . .. they all kind of morph into one disc after a while.

The plastic however does vary -- I like the ESP stuff, although the new DX Wraiths feel real good too. I think the first DX Orc stuff was the best -- better even than the current DX which is wayy more better than the previous couple of years.

The ESP stuff is the only non-z Discraft plastic that I've liked in quite a while.


I agree. I finally got my hands on a surge (blue, 165g) and you can get BIG D with it. Bigger than my flash when I'm throwing well? Probably not, but it seems easier to get the most out of the surge time after time. The best analogy I can think of is that it's like the surge has a bigger "sweet spot". Still love my flashes, and they won't be coming out of my bag, but the surge seems to have more margin for error when it come to getting maximum D.

I will say this though, the ESP plastic does seem to be quite durable (so far). A few big impacts with almost no discernable wear. I'm definitely planning on getting a couple more, although probably around 170g this time.

nanook

My suspicions were right! Picked up a couple bright yellow Surges (170g) from The Wright Life last weekend. Not the first run stamps, but the little added weight seems to be just what I was looking for. Biggest difference is that the flight plate is more substantial. Really, really enjoying these discs so far...

The flight plate is more substantial than what?

The flight plate is more substantial than what?



Than the 165g Surge I referred to in the post immediately preceeding. My meaning was that the flight plate of the 170g disc feels significantly stiffer than the flight plate of the 165g disc.

nanook

"174g Z-Surge it will be what I am looking for."

Would this disc go farther than a Crystal Tsunami ?



The Surge has added distance for me, but it sucks in a headwind, Tailwind this disc glides forever. I also throw a lot of Tsunami's for headwind shots, and would like to get my hands on at least one Z. Does anyone know if they are making more or do I have to trade for one?

I cant wait till the Surge comes out in Z!!! Then I can Take the Star Wraiths out of my bag :eek: :eek: :eek:

The flight plate is more substantial than what?



Than the 165g Surge I referred to in the post immediately preceeding. My meaning was that the flight plate of the 170g disc feels significantly stiffer than the flight plate of the 165g disc.

nanook




Got digital?

We tested what I believe were proto Z surge down at The Memorial. They looked and felt sweet. I have a proto Surge that is flatter then the first runs and it has some serious D. It is 1 of 2 that I know of.