been asking this question lately at events and discovered that most players (17 out of 20) would like an X Games approach to sponsorships and exposure rather than the strict, uptight PGA standards.

I believe we are a sport that would appeal to more disc golfers if we promoted wearing shorts, tank tops, had red bull and beer sponsors, and played rock and roll at ceremonies.

we are not PGA material nor should be.
The money will still come if we adopted an xgames approach
any opinions on this idea? or is this old subject matter?

why try to appeal to one or the other.

let each tournament decide based on the people in that area who would attend the event.

: ) :

if it was non-sanctioned,then no problem
but PDGA events have some regulations (i.e. steve rico looks much more intimidating (and marketable) wearing his white tank top than a collared shirt)
i'm just thinking in the long run, we'd have much more exposure
if we could get on TV like skate/snowboarding, rollerblading, and motocross. I see darts, curling and billiards quite often, why not disc golf? It's not worth even thinking of competing for NBC/ABC/CBS exposure when they have (L)PGA events with multi million dollar sponsors.
We need ESPN "the Ocho" for our sport to flourish so quality players like Feldberg, Avery, Schwe, Rico, Yeti, Ken, Barry, Martin etc. can make a "real" professional athlete's salary.

The US snowboarders at the Olympics all had spiffy white outfits with black pinstripes and they don't seem to be complaining about all of the sponsorship and money that has come their way since playing it pretty straight at the 2002 games in Utah.

X games for sure!! look at disc golf's primary demographic , i would say its somewhat parralel to that of the x-games!! ;)

i agree with efrain
not only that but i think the people on the outside of our sport think of disc golf as sort of an x game anyways

the x gamer are on espn so is the great outdoor games eating championships i want to see us on espn

Yep, we're an adrenaline junkie sport all right. :D

Yep, we're an adrenaline junkie sport all right. :D



Well that depend's on the course you are playing at. :D

i think this is a great discussion becasue what Disc Golf is missing is big corporate sponsors exactly like red bull etc. but i do not think that getting those sponsors is going to come down to wearing a tank top. there is no reason why a sport as great as disc golf could not pull in the big coporate money and still keep the integrity of the polo shirt combined with the care free attitude of the partcipants.

I think if you refer to yourself as "X-Games Style" then you probably aren't what the vast majority of those athletes that live those particular sports lifestyles, attitudes and appearence are like :)

I DO think we are adreniline junkies as are most any other athletes on Earth. Some just need a certain degree of danger to get the adreniline rush they are looking for. I know I get a rush when I can a fifty footer, drop a sweet round, fly past or slam the chains on a drive, and obviously when I nail an Ace. Those are some of the main reasons I keep playing.

Personally I think we are what we are. That just happens to be a sport that carries over to many people from many walks of life. That is another great thing about this sport, we are all equal and treat each other as such on and off the course(for the most part)

As far as sponsorship goes. I think we have a much better chance landing the types of corporations that sponsor "X-Games Style " events but Most of those companies were started from the ground up by the actual athletes in those sports. The rest just jumped on the band-wagon when those companies got large enough to compete with them and/or they saw dollar signs from all the people the grass-roots companies pulled in.

i'm just thinking in the long run, we'd have much more exposure
if we could get on TV like skate/snowboarding, rollerblading, and motocross. I see darts, curling and billiards quite often, why not disc golf?



Why not? One of the reasons is production costs. Most of those can get away with 2-4 fixed cameras (and associated cameramen, producers, etc) and create a very compelling program.

How many camera's would it take to produce a compelling real-time show of a DG event? Think about how many cameras are in place in a PGA event.

great posts, i'm pro-pdga btw, ace member, TD, all that jazz...
i'm not trying to categorize us into one or another, just where our focus should be from listening to other golfers. The US snowboarders wear their uniforms, sure, but if you gave them the choice, i'll bet they'd choose their own, individual sponsor-laden x-games-style threads.. with their own stylistic panache

that's what i'd rather see anyhow... individuality
papa's pink hair, rayman's styly pullcart, renz' socks,
buck's knickers, Mr. Lee's kilt, Goodwin playing barefoot, etc...

Rico's tank top would be his signature, like Tiger's red shirt on Sundays...It's not for everybody to wear. It would show the everyday dude "hey, i can play this game and make a little change too.."

Our sport excels at flair; killer putts, booming drives, fist-pumping skill shots, powerful thumbers, and wild rollers...

MP3,
i almost mentioned that, but after seeing MSDGC's 2005 dvd I have realized that 3 cameras CAN really grab the viewers interest.
Haven't been thrilled with the other dvd's on the market, so I see your point. Production costs would be high, but could be offset with a minor sponsor?
I know (pdga member) Terry Roddy works with the PGA production crew on tour, maybe he'll give us some insight on costs?

The US snowboarders at the Olympics all had spiffy white outfits with black pinstripes and they don't seem to be complaining about all of the sponsorship and money that has come their way since playing it pretty straight at the 2002 games in Utah.



I thought just the opposite. They are wearing a team uniform but they're so big and baggy that they still look like the snowboarders you see on the slopes. Meanwhile the skiers are wearing the skin tight performance suits.

i hear what you are saying but i think you are missing something. the x games are not sponsored by skateboard or surf or inline companies. they are sponsored by moutain dew, red bull, ESPN, Right gaurd etc. these are huge corporations that like you said are flowing tons of money into the respective sports because of the exposure these sports have garnered. who cares if they are jumping the ban wagon they are kicking down serious cash. i myself have competed in numerous x-games qualifiers as a pro skateboarder in 1999 and 2000. the sponsors do not set any criteria they are just there reaping the exposure we created by doing our thing. same applies to disc golf we can do it it just takes stoked people to show the companies what they will get for their money and any look at the majors will show them the sport is on the come up. remember it took us 36 years to get skateboarding where it is today disc golf could be next

and if you will notice the snowboard uniform was designed and has Burton's logo on it which by the way is the sponsor of shawn white danny cass and the rest of the mens snowboard team

I am with ya. I ended my 20 year skateboard run just 3 years ago. I won a contest then broke what would be my last deck while skating after the event. I woke up the next day and couldn't really even walk from the pain in my knees and decided that was the end of it for me.

The point I was kinda trying to make was that, we need to grow ourselves and let the large corporations kinda jump on our bandwagon. We are unique and in being unique we must prove ourselves. I don't think we need to make an attempt to "make" ourselves fit some image that will pull in money, we need to be ourselves and grow ourselves and let the money come when the rest of the world realizes what we disc golfers already realize about this sport.

exactly. but i think we are there. we have a image we have an organization we have numbers. we are in position for the blow up and i don't see anything wrong with making the whole world aware of what we got going on. and how they can help us grow even more

X games for sure!! look at disc golf's primary demographic , i would say its somewhat parralel to that of the x-games!! ;)



Actually, the last demographic stats I have seen from the PDGA reveal more PGA style demo's then X-Games. Basically the majority of disc golfers were professionals, college educated, and middle-upper/middle class (40-50k/yr incomes).

We (as disc golfers, and the PDGA) should learn from snowboarding. When it started, it was the annoying, dirty, little brother of skiers. Skiers snuffed their noses at snowboarders and snowboarders had to ride on different parts of the slopes. Nowdays on some slopes snowboarders and skiers are sharing space. This is starting to happen thanks to the people who are doing Fly-18 style courses. It will take some time to really fit disc golf well into ball golf courses, instead of the roller/roller/upshot/putt of some of the fly 18 courses.

Do the Snowboarders have a Snowboarding assoication? Is it modeled similarly to a skiers assoication? If so, then modeling ourselves after the PGA is an ideal route. I do not think the intention of the dress code at large PDGA events was to make us look "prim and proper" but more or less acted like a sweeping defense against any profanity and explicit images that are traditionally kept off of collared shirts. A preventative measure of the "one-bad-apple" philosophy.

If we can mimic what snowboarding has done, then we can be successful. But also realize that it takes time to grow, and that snowboarding did get a nice boost, parents who went skiing took their kids, the kids thought snowboarding was a more stable and cooler form of skiing. Perhaps this can get started at fly 18 courses where dad is playing golf, while his children are playing disc golf along the side of the fairway.

X games for sure!! look at disc golf's primary demographic , i would say its somewhat parralel to that of the x-games!! ;)



Actually, the last demographic stats I have seen from the PDGA reveal more PGA style demo's then X-Games. Basically the majority of disc golfers were professionals, college educated, and middle-upper/middle class (40-50k/yr incomes).




I wasn't necessarily speaking of the pdga demographic rather disc golfers as a whole!! I wonder what the ratio of non-pdga disc golfers is compared to pdga current!! I would wildly guess it is at least 20-1 here in Austin. That sure is a massive untapped resource if you ask me!! :D

Disc Golf can be on ESPN as early as tomorrow.

I had went down this road with them a few years ago. They would be more than willing to put the sport on in a paid infomercial type of programming. Meaning not only does the sport foot all production costs etc. but we also supply all advertising costs. We would be responsible for everything, all they do is air the show.

Unfortunately the sport is not ready to be on tv although most of us PDGA members would like to see it. The problem isn't with the marketability of characters that compete. It's more of what audience would be targeted. And the numbers are not there. Sure there are 10,000 members. But what company wants to market to such a small bunch. It would be the millions of recreational and casual players and thier families that would have to join in to make it feasible. And that won't happen because there in no way to organize that group at this time. The PDGA would need money to do that. Yet so many members that want this tv time and corporate money don't want to put anything extra back into the sport. Just look at the responses for a $100 or $200 a year membership.

How does World Conglamerate A Inc. justify investing money when those that want the money aren't willing to invest anything themselves. Take a look at your local scene for a small example. Pros and ams alike cry out for more money added to tournaments. But what do they do for Mom & Pop sub shop? Do they thank them at the awards? Do they patronize that business or refer thier friends and family to that business? Most of the time the answer is no. If we cant support the $100 sponsor then what hope do we have with the million dollar sponsor?

And this isn't negativity. I've long been an advocate for the sport on TV and corporate sponsors. But I have heard the answers from both ESPN and corporate America and we are not ready...Yet. The time will come.

Just some things for you to ponder when it comes time to pay your memberships (regular or Ace Club) or the occasion arises to make a contribution to the sport (monetary or other). Or taking it easy on the local TD who busts his hump to get $100 sponsorship from Mom & Pop only to have the players say that the TD's don't do enough. Quit asking what the sport can do for you and do something to help the sport and yourselves.

To each his own, but I have no desire to play disc golf on ball golf courses.

Trying to portray an image is lame. It is far from unique in this day and age. Just let disc golf be what it is: a challenging sport played by people of all walks of life.

I wasn't necessarily speaking of the pdga demographic rather disc golfers as a whole!! I wonder what the ratio of non-pdga disc golfers is compared to pdga current!! I would wildly guess it is at least 20-1 here in Austin. That sure is a massive untapped resource if you ask me!! :D



I whole heartedly agree with you Efrain, out of ~500 local disc golfers here in Birmingham, only 10 are PDGA members! And they are the only ones that hold or go two tournaments. thats only about 2%! And that is out of a very very small market.

But those 10 people are what the public sees in the intended media. So on here, talking as PDGA members, already a small percentage of the disc golf market, if we want ourselves to grow, we have to figure out what we are. Also, we have to realize why these other 95-98% of disc golfers are not joining the PDGA? I would be very interested in finding out what percentages of other organizations hold with total players of the sport. It bet NBA and MLB have very low percentages of members vs participants, the PDGA may be on the leading side of saturation.

I would argue that even snowboarders and skateboarders had to organize and "clean up" when going after sponsorships. While they still maintained a portion of their uniqueness, I am pretty sure their corporate sponsors were monitoring behavior and what they were wearing. We are mearly self policing so that sponsors will not have to.

With that said, there just needs to be more disc golfers to start reaching the interest of the national corporate media. There are what, 1 million disc golfers roughly in the United States, and we have what 350 million people? That is a small percentage of the whole.

We are still at the grass roots level because we are so small, but grass roots does not mean we are still assoiciated with some other forms of grass and roots. (nothing wrong with it, but it does not bode with the media and public perception). Once we get more players, and a larger number of PDGA members, and tournament players, then corporate sponsors will pay attention to us, no matter what we are wearing. We just need more players first.

I am with ya. I ended my 20 year skateboard run just 3 years ago. I won a contest then broke what would be my last deck while skating after the event. I woke up the next day and couldn't really even walk from the pain in my knees and decided that was the end of it for me.

The point I was kinda trying to make was that, we need to grow ourselves and let the large corporations kinda jump on our bandwagon. We are unique and in being unique we must prove ourselves. I don't think we need to make an attempt to "make" ourselves fit some image that will pull in money, we need to be ourselves and grow ourselves and let the money come when the rest of the world realizes what we disc golfers already realize about this sport.



Agreed. As a skater and mountain biker, I can definitely say we are NOT X games material. Every X game sport has some form of death defying in it, I don't see too much of that in DG. Playing DG on reg. ball golf courses diminishes the beauty (trees and shaping of shots) of our sport. But it is a step towards letting the public see that we are playing golf. It also gets us out into the non-DG public more than playing our wooded hidden courses. Every time I play Edgebrooke in Chi. I know at least 20 people go away with a new appreciation for a sport that they knew nothing about the day before.

My next step is to invite the mayor, city council and park district president of the town a tourney will be in to go see that tourney. Exposure needs to start somewhere, and I'm not going to sit around and wait for it. I will start a thread about this idea later.

I completely agree that disc golf should not be viewed as an X-Games sport simply because of the lack of risk/danger/consequence. Sure us discers feel the sport is exciting and challenging, but it will simply never have the "big bang" effect of life being risked for the sake of catchng some air. Now if disc golf ever becomes full contact, with a strong emphasis on defense................

I also maintain a simpletons view of our audience/members within the PDGA. Common sense tells me that if membership fees are lowered, tournament fees are lowered, Am payouts become regulated or of trophy only, and we stop catering to simply a handful of the best pro's, and soon enough you have a sport where more casuals and Recreational players are taking the step forward to pursue having a better game or competition. It is pretty noticeable that far too many golfers are dropping off the scene or never willing to move to an organized level. Once we figure out why and do something about it, perhaps membership will increase. Then there is support fo future endeavors like a television spot.

I had an idea a couple of days ago to get disc golf some exposure. A possible ballgolf/discgolf challenge could be set up between our top pros and any pro ball golfers that would like to participate. There are a number of pro ballers that would probably be interested if it were in the off-season. Guys like Duffy Waldorf or Gary McCord, who have a bit of flair/individuality on the golf course with colorful shirts and uniquely marked golf balls might like to participate. I don't think we would have any problem getting Ken and Barry to do this. We just need to rope in some PGA pros. It doesn't need to be on prime time. It could be shown in the winter when ball golf is on a semi hiatus. Just a recent idea. Any comments?

Last fall, one of Des Moines' local pros organized a "sticks and discs" event. For those of you that have been fortunate enough to play the midwest's finest courses here, you might remember a ball golf course adjacent to Grandview disc golf course. We played both. It was a small, unsanctioned event in which 16 people participated. It was a lot of fun, I must say, and this year there is already talk of it being much bigger and better. We have also entertained the idea of inviting some local pros to participate in the event in the future. We'd use a doubles format, with a disc golfer being paired with a ball golfer. Kind of a give/take event more for the fun and exposure, so true competitors in ball golf can see us competing in the same way at our sport. I think it would be great if more clubs nationwide held a similar type event. It will gain us more exposure, and might even get a few more competitors on board.

About 8-9 years ago, our club used to hold Golf/Golf/Golf events.

Play one round of Disc Golf, a round of ball golf on a par-3 course, and then a round of putt-putt. They did that until the only putt putt place in town shut down.

We call that a Trigolfalon. We do all three either outside or inside on a computer with rounds of BG, DG and PP.

Its all about the venue.....Change the venue, change the coustomer ,change the coustomer, change the results.As Tafe said at Edgebrook, 20 golfers went away with a posivitive image about disc golf...And an appreciation, for the sport...No x games, are not us, we have x game habbits :oI have said all along that spectators need more than players...Most disc golf courses, are not made for spectating.Sponsors need a profesional venue ,not to wave a banner, but to serve thier product ,7 days a week to coustomers ,reguardless, what sport ,they choose to play.The venue, is a reflection ,on the companys image. When we ,disc golf ,get our act together ,we will have more opprtunties ,than we know ,what to do with.We are being watched, by large companys, waiting for that time.I am proud to say ,that Fly 18 will continue to push the envelope, building premier courses, with the best eminties.Like the saying goes ,if you dont know where your going ,any road will take you there!!!!!Now i must get back to being a cage fighter......why dont you come down here, and show me what you got!!!!!! :D:D

If you want ESPN to recognize you may want to be shooting towards the Great OUTDOOR Games. Disc golf is obviously a GREAT OUTDOOR GAME. ;)

They could slide us in between the log roll and the fly dog.

Many years ago the sport of ball golf was changed in a major way, A course was built with the single purpose of creating a harmony between spectators and athletes. Huge natural 'bleachers'(for lack of better word) were built around tee boxes, fairways rolled through ravines with ample room for spectators to watch. It was pretty successful, the course is the TPC at Sawgrass in Ponte Vedra, Fl. I have been there many times and every time i think to myself: "how in the world can i come up with the resources to do something like this in the sport i love so much?" I dont know how to solve that problem but I do know it's a good idea. Disc golfers themselves are a lucrative market, just ask Innova and Discraft. Get spectators at major events on premier courses, and suddenly marketing becomes a whole lot more appealing to would be sponsors. It takes the combination of superior athletes, dedicated tournament directors, and a strong, sound governing body to bring it all together. I hope we have all of these, I have faith that they will come together. I love this friggin' game.

just got back from the Bigfoot in Humboldt where Oregon took the top 5 spots in open... including Feldberg's third win...

i thought a cool visual display for disc golf would be at a college (or NFL) game and have some golfers throw discs through the uprights. compete with the kicker, QB, etc...

i thought a cool visual display for disc golf would be at a college (or NFL) game and have some golfers throw discs through the uprights. compete with the kicker, QB, etc...



Yeah that would be funny to see a kicker try to make a 100yd field goal. Back in high school we were throwing 60yd field goals with lids. It would be fairly easy to get a 100yd field goal with disc.