I was digging my 170 pro, doing hyser flips for max D and found the heavy to not be as long because I couldn't flip it as much. But almost all pros throw max wt discs. Is it good to carry a Max wt also? Its hard to get consistancy from the longest drivers, so I dont care about flipping them around when theres room and it seems easier on my arm. I'm in the consistant 360-370 range, startled by the occasional bomb to about 420. I'm also thinking the STAR CFR ones available only in max wt at ZD might be even more overstable than my Champ CFR's are now (I throw the poop out of my 168 CFR, but hardley ever throw the 175). How is the Max wt Augusta STARS working out for everybody whos got em? Thanks, for any info as I kind of am on the fence about getting some now instead of waiting for lighter wt to come out in the STAR.

Throw what you know. Know what you throw. One mans firebird is another mans sidewinder.

On the fence and in the closet? :eek:

I get tired carrying a heavy bag because I carry about 30 discs. When I used 175 g discs my back started to hurt so I replaced all my discs with 130 gram and now I'm fine.

Heavier discs help mask technique errors -- they are better at dampening off axis torque and they do better through wind, etc. Therefore heavier discs are likely to be more consistent. However, you probably need enough arm to throw them.

Lighter discs are harder to throw (control). If you don't have a big arm though, they may be easier to throw faster which in turn can lead to better D (distance). I still laugh when i think of the am.s who brag they can't throw anything but Firebirds or Flicks because they have such big arms and then look at the fact that Sandstrom set the distance world record with a DX Valkyrie in the 160's or that Climo, Schultz and other top pros go to Japan and beat the field using 150g weight discs. Imagine trying to beat the best with 150g plastic. That takes serious skill. (not that our NT doesn't, but...).

ymmv

all over the board on wraith's, depends on what I'm doing with it. I have prolines at 170, 174,175, and three cfr's at 173, 173, and 171.

Throw what you know. Know what you throw. One mans firebird is another mans sidewinder.



awesome quote

I throw everything max weight except for my turnover discs.

Weight is a personal issue. Some people cannot control heavy discs. Throw the heaviest weights you can control.

Some people will carry different weight discs of the same mold for different shots. For example, 160 Orc for Turnovers, 170 for normal shots, 175 for head wind. Where I will throw a 175 Beast for turnovers, 175 Avenger for normal shots and a 175 CFR Wraith for Headwind shots.

My way requires getting to know a lot of discs.

To answer your question, I really like my max weight August Wraith. It is too touchy to be used for my main long drives, but if I have a shot where I need to go over 400ft and the headwind is less then 20mph, I will throw the Wraith on a hyzer flip line.

If you averaging only 360-370 on your long drives, and are looking to increase distance, you may want to work on technique and form using Blake T's website (discgolfreview.com). I see a lot of people complain about distance, and I see them throw and they are using jerky technique and moving through their run-up in an unefficient manner.

Good luck.

AvairX, you're right about the top weights. Top pros generally don't throw them. I remember when I first started playing ('95), I read that Scott Stokely broke the distance record with a 166g X-Clone. It's all techinque and control. I think it's good to start out with heavy and overstable to develope an arm and then work your way down and develope your control game. With lighter weights, you'll get more glide at the end of the flight.

AvairX, you're right about the top weights. Top pros generally don't throw them. I remember when I first started playing ('95), I read that Scott Stokely broke the distance record with a 166g X-Clone. It's all techinque and control. I think it's good to start out with heavy and overstable to develope an arm and then work your way down and develope your control game. With lighter weights, you'll get more glide at the end of the flight.



Actually tha majority (95%) of the top pros throw near max weight unless they are in a distance competition or in japan where you must throw 150g discs.

Right -- that was my point. They throw max weight when legal because that makes the disc comparatively easier to control. When they have to -- they are skilled enough to get 150g discs to fly well. That takes great technique (very little off-axis torque).

throwing for big D is a whole different scenario

If you want to know what weight you are throwing you should weigh your plastic. I go through a lot of discs and the weights of 80% of INNOVA's discs are off....

how accurate is your scale? do you have a standardized calibration weight of say 100 or 200 grams to check it with?

If you want to know what weight you are throwing you should weigh your plastic. I go through a lot of discs and the weights of 80% of INNOVA's discs are off....



Yeah especially the max weight star stuff. A 175 is more like a 177-178. They are illegal during play and if anyone wanted to weigh them in a NT event a lot of innova's pros and other people would get disqualified. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I have a 178 Champ Sidewinder and a 180 Champ Orc. Neither one are in my bag though

How nice of them to sell you illegal discs. :confused:

They most certainly are illegal...I can say that the 180 Champ Orc is a superb headwind driver, I have it in my practice stack and I use it at a practice soccer field down the street from my house.

I'm not that guy who uses illegal equipment to gain an advantage on the field, my guess is there are illegal discs being used even in the pro ranks.

I have a 178 Champ Sidewinder and a 180 Champ Orc. Neither one are in my bag though



The Champ Orc is a blank X-out.

0 grams....

-Scott Lewis

A 175 is more like a 177-178. They are illegal during play and if anyone wanted to weigh them in a NT event a lot of innova's pros and other people would get disqualified. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



I have heard this is true of Discraft max weight discs too :confused: However, if someone wanted to weigh and potentially disqualify anyone over it -- they had better use certified calibrated scales and have some standardized weights around 200g to verify the accuracy. Is there any leeway given by the rules (such as +/- 3%) or is 175.5g illegal?

Also, would the disc just be disallowed from that point forward or would the player be DQ'ed? Probably s/he simply could no longer use the disc in question :confused:

Does anyone really think two grams should get someone DQ'ed simply because s/he doesn't have an accurate scale?

Does anyone really think two grams should get someone DQ'ed simply because s/he doesn't have an accurate scale?



I don't think it's a DQ if the owner doesn't know that the disc is over weight (and trying to circumvent the rules). You just can't throw it after the TD or whoever weighs it.

A 175 is more like a 177-178. They are illegal during play and if anyone wanted to weigh them in a NT event a lot of innova's pros and other people would get disqualified. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



I have heard this is true of Discraft max weight discs too :confused: However, if someone wanted to weigh and potentially disqualify anyone over it -- they had better use certified calibrated scales and have some standardized weights around 200g to verify the accuracy. Is there any leeway given by the rules (such as +/- 3%) or is 175.5g illegal?

Also, would the disc just be disallowed from that point forward or would the player be DQ'ed? Probably s/he simply could no longer use the disc in question :confused:

Does anyone really think two grams should get someone DQ'ed simply because s/he doesn't have an accurate scale?



I would never accuse someone of it but you could. :confused: :D

you would prefer it be against someone throwing Innova though -- right? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

No I weight all My stuff be fore i throw it at school. I make sure my stuff isn't overweight. I don't think it really matter but according to the PDGA it does.

how often do you calibrate your scale and how accurate is it?
also, how much did it cost?

Is a balance and it is very accurate. We also have electronic ones that are ok.

I was throwing a 175 gram Pro last Saturday into a 35 mph headwind with gusts to 45 mph and outdrove everyone on my card.I did'nt get caught though. :)

Anyone else throwing these CFR Wraiths half an inch off the ground?

Seriously, I have a pretty low flight, and I can positively try to worm burn and get a sick hover that just goes forever.

Dammm Scooter, I don't know if I want you to post more or stop altogether! Great avatar! ;)

:o

I throw a 175g Proline Wraith. If I manage to give it enough air I can put it out there a mile... Well, maybe not quite a mile (except for that one time with the truck bed...). But yeah, it gives me what I want in terms of a disc that I can hyzer-flip at high speeds, but if I give it some air it'll swing back at low speeds easily. Works very nicely for wide open holes.

I did use a 174g CFR for a while, but then it quite literally disappeared... For some reason I think it was pulled from my bag. Could have fallen out, but my discs are more likely to get stuck IN the bag than fall out... anyway... The 174g CFR was a phenomenal short-hyzer disc. I felt like it was unreliable for me, but when I wanted to put it on a sweeping hyzer it would do what I wanted. I enjoyed using it on wide open holes, putting it out wide and swinging it into the basket (more forgiving than trying to throw straight at the basket).


-Chris.

A 175 Orc

zonedriven has star wraiths in regular production now $15!! STAR WRAITHS (http://discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=ST_WR) :D

A 175 Orc



well said :D did you stash a whole pile of Pro Orcs, or are you content just to have Champ and night shift/Special Blend/STAR Orcs and let the Pro Orcs go bye-bye?

i like the Champ and SB Orcs, but i also keep Pro Orcs in the bag too (for tail winds, etc.).

maybe you can talk Dave into bringing the pro Orcs back? :D

ps: i have a Champ Wraith too, and it gets some of my love, but the Orc rules.

How does the stability of a Star Wraith compare to the CFR and Pro?

Thanks for the heads up, Efrain. Just ordered 4 of them.

How does the stability of a Star Wraith compare to the CFR and Pro?



I have all three plastics, and I'd say that the CFR is the most stable (by a considerable margin), then the Star, and then the Pro. It didn't take too much beating in on a lightweight (172g) Pro Wraith to get it to hold a nice anhyzer line.

I have not thrown the cfr but have thrown the pro!! I think the STAR is more stable than a mint pro and have heard the same compared to the cfr's !!

That is weird. I threw a mint Pro and mint CFR and the Pro was definetly more overstable than the CFR. :confused:

I was asked to try a 170 ? Is this too light for a Wraith ?

How does the stability of a Star Wraith compare to the CFR and Pro?



I thought the star was way more overstable than the others. I mean it actually didn't flip over and roll when I threw it.

I am just throwing the Champ Orcs.

Schweb,

Do you throw the clearer champ orcs or the opaque champs? Also, do you carry a max weight champ orc?

Thx,
mc

I am just throwing the Champ Orcs.



if it ain't broke... don't fix it. :D ;)

A 175 Orc



174 Z Avenger :D;)

millzzz: you throwing any of the Midnight buzzz's from the players cup? i have 4 and am holding them as backups for when my 1st run buzzz gets too beat up(should be soon)..
if you throw them how good are they?


-Scott Lewis

That is weird. I threw a mint Pro and mint CFR and the Pro was definetly more overstable than the CFR. :confused:


I've noticed the same thing. For a while, my super heavy (179 on my scale) CFR Wraith was like a giant firebird, but when I throw it sidearm with some anhyzer, it never comes back. That being said, I can throw a 173 Pro Wraith on giant S curves, but not all the time. I really hope the star Wraith is similar to the CFR like the comparison of the star and champ sidewinders.

172 grams. :o

my cfr is 164, my pro was 171. the cfr was less stable by a little. as fast as the illusion or venom/flat flick. the z-avenger gives up a little speed and [maybe] distance, but it is much more managable for me.

That is weird. I threw a mint Pro and mint CFR and the Pro was definetly more overstable than the CFR. :confused:



I think your correct Danny!!

millzzz: you throwing any of the Midnight buzzz's from the players cup? i have 4 and am holding them as backups for when my 1st run buzzz gets too beat up(should be soon)..
if you throw them how good are they?


-Scott Lewis



1st off if you do decide your 1st Runs are too beat send them my way. 2nd the Midnights are pretty much exactly the same as the 1st runs but I cant throw black discs so if you anyone wants to buy a Midnight BUZZZ I have 3 of them for sale :D

PM me if interested :D

PS. The WRAITH SUCKS!!! :eek:

What is a Midnight BUZZZ ? Glow plastic or glossy black ? I have heard the phrase before , Midnight Glow. Must be black then ?

What is the lightest Wraith ? 160 ?

The WRAITH SUCKS!!!



Innova is to golf discs what Discraft is to ultimate discs.

therefore, according to your logic: ultrastars are crap! :eek:

The WRAITH SUCKS!!!



Innova is to golf discs what Discraft is to ultimate discs.

therefore, according to your logic: ultrastars are crap! :eek:



Interesting.................what is the Best Ultimate disc ?

Schweb,

Do you throw the clearer champ orcs or the opaque champs? Also, do you carry a max weight champ orc?

Thx,
mc

M, I throw both, and they are all Max weight.

I am just throwing the Champ Orcs.



if it ain't broke... don't fix it. :D ;)

You gots that right.

I am just throwing the Champ Orcs.



if it ain't broke... don't fix it. :D ;)

You gots that right.



:D The Orc is hands down the best driver ever made! :D

do you notice any difference in flight characteristics between the opaque and the clear champions? i have pearly ones in my bag and stash, and also a couple of clear ones i've yet to throw... by opaque do you mean pearly or nightshift :eek:?

Yes !!! - "Do you notice any difference in flight characteristics between the opaque and the clear champions" ?

My Opaque Orcs are really stable. They seem to be a little stiffer from the rim to the flight plate too. They come highly recommended !!!!!! I do have a couple of clear type as well that are overstable.

thanks Donny -- that's the type of info was looking for. one more thing so i know whether we're on the same page. When Orcs came out they were almost opaque but not quite more of a pearlescent translucent maybe. lately i see Orcs that are very clear without pearliness. so i am inclined to call the first Orcs opaque. But, i hear the original nightshift Orcs which led to the SB Orcs which led to the STAR line were completely opaque like my SB (Tulsa) Orcs.

are you saying the first Orcs were more stable than the latest clearer ones, or that the SB Orcs are more stable :confused:

sorry this is so long, but the devil is in the details.

in a nutshell:

SB/Nightshift Orcs (completely opaque) = most stable
Pearlescent Orcs (almost opaque) = second most stable
Clear Orcs (not at all opaque) = not quite as stable???

Sounds like you got it right. Also , check for either domeyness or convex tops. Airflow across the flight plate on some runs makes a world of difference sometimes !!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Oh...............if you play in high elevation.........say above 8000 feet...............they are really overstable !!!!!

I can trust an Orc into a headwind as well !!!!! Love that disc.

in a nutshell:

SB/Nightshift Orcs (completely opaque) = most stable
Pearlescent Orcs (almost opaque) = second most stable
Clear Orcs (not at all opaque) = not quite as stable???




My only exception to the above would be that I have found the clear Orcs (after the pearly Orcs) to be more overstable than their pearly counterparts. YMMV.

My only exception to the above would be that I have found the clear Orcs (after the pearly Orcs) to be more overstable than their pearly counterparts. YMMV.



okay, then:

SB/Nightshift Orcs (completely opaque) = most stable
Clear-ish Orcs = second most stable
Pearly Orcs (not clear, but not opaque) = stable, but not quite as much

[/QUOTE]

would you say the clear ones are more stable than their pearly counterparts during the high-speed turn phase, the low-speed fade phase, or in both phases of flight? :D

according to either dave at innova or the guy at discraft(not sure who said it) The clear Discs are usually more STABLE than the opaque versions...

Just what i remember getting answered a bunch of months ago.

-Scott Lewis

Whew! Good question! I think that the clear Orcs (in my opinion) were equally stable (read overstable) in the low speed portion of the flight, but more overstable than the pearly ones in the high speed turn category.

Make sense? Again, just my experience here, but I was excited when the clear orcs came out, because to me, they flew more like a nightshift than the pearly ones did.