Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

treachery
Only entry found for treachery.


Main Entry: treach�ery
Pronunciation: -rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -er�ies
Etymology: Middle English trecherie, from Old French, from trechier, trichier to deceive, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin triccare -- more at TRICK

1 : violation of allegiance or of faith and confidence


Disc2Tech on ebay sold me what he described as a Nightshift orc. Actual item description:

Rare Special Blend Nighshift Orc Champion disc golf 253 (7187258358)

He sent me a Tulsa Fundraiser Orc. He didn't clearly state that it was a SB orc. He didn't clearly say that it WAS NOT a Nightshift Orc.
He was unwilling to refund my $26 for what he sold to me. UNWILLING! :mad::mad::mad:
Now, he has one for sale. Here is the item description after I was denied dispute resolution by both ebay and paypal :confused::

Rare Real Nightshift ORC, Solid Blue 175 G Disc Golf


This looks like a nightshift from what I can tell with his crappy picture.
Hey Eric, Screw a couple more people and buy yourself a better camara!
Disc golfers are a happy, helpful bunch. They look out for others of their kind with hints, tips, discs, rides, and shelter in travel. I am always telling people that disc'rs are some of the most genuine people there are...honest, fun loving people who care for their fellow players.

ERIC E is not one. He will screw you over. Don't buy anything from him unless you want something completely different from what you ordered or want to be ripped-off.

Maybe I'll start touring in Wisconsin or pop into menomonee when I'm up in Highbridge. See you then...

You know, the item description reads:
"New and unthrown, limited to 500 of this stamp. Special Blend Orc, Blue 172 Grams. Same as the Special blend 2005 Rocs and Rare Nighshift Orc's"
I would say that is pretty well defined, and he had a picture as well. But I would be angry that he would not refund your $.

Would it be possible to pay say, $16.00? Maybe he won't refund the whole amount, but maybe he'll give you some back...

In my dealings with Eric, he's been OK!

unless the description and picture have changed it doesn't say it is a night shift but same material as.

"
New and unthrown, limited to 500 of this stamp. Special Blend Orc, Blue 172 Grams. Same as the Special blend 2005 Rocs and Rare Nighshift Orc's"

The picture says it all it's a tulsa disc I'd say the seller should have worded it better but didn't screw you by any means.

I've bought a few discs from him, including two of the tulsa orc's. It said something close to "same plastic as nightshift orc's" if I remember rightly, and there was a picture with the Tulsa stamp.

In my dealings on e-bay there have been far worse than eric, he communicates well and has good discs. At least he replied and said no to a refund instead of just deleting your messages. It's ebay, you get what you pay for...

First off, you paided $19.99 for the disc, and shipping was $5. for a disc that was sold out of the limited # stamps.

so you really paided $3.99 more than you would have if you had purchase 1 disc from an online store.

You lied to paypal, You sent threating emails from the start, called my house, of course that didnt reflect in me not giving you a refund. you start threads like this. You came off as a jerk everytime you messaged me and I always reponded.

If you would have started off as I made a mistake in thinking this was a Nightshift orc and not a special blend. Then things would have been different.

All I asked is if you could refund the transaction when I explained that I thought I'd purchased a nightshift from what the description said to me. You didn't even want to hear my side of the story. You immediately said tough luck, you bought it. Essentially, you told me that you didn't care and you didn't do refunds.
Were you afraid that no one would buy your disc if you posted it again? Were you happy that someone felt deceived by the auction? I'm still trying to figure out why in the world you just wouldn't take it back IF YOU WEREN'T GOING TO LOSE ANY MONEY TO DO SO??? :confused: What did that prove?
I was simply following the policies on dispute resolution where they said to make an attempt to call the seller. Did I call you at 3am? No. Did I repeatedly call you? No. In fact, the number you had listed for such resolutions was wrong or not connected.

I work in sales and in my business, if I tick someone off, I try to make it right. I don't get a big head or think that they are out to get me. It's called "customer service" and that means making the customer happy. If I don't make my customers happy, they say bad things about me to their friends and that taints my image and destroys what I worked so hard to build.
Would it have hurt to make an effort to rectify the issue instead of being bull-headed and shooting down every solution I tried to come up with to reconcile our differences?

Let me repeat myself "customer service"

If I went about my business like you did, Eric, I'd be a bored and poor man. But I guess when a customer can't come to your office and talk face to face, a lesser man could hide behind their computer and tell their customers to [I'm a potty-mouth]!

While the description may be slightly misleading to some did you really think you were getting a night shift orc that cheap? I've seen those things go for over 30 bucks plus shipping.

My $ .02

All I asked is if you could refund the transaction when I explained that I thought I'd purchased a nightshift from what the description said to me. You didn't even want to hear my side of the story. You immediately said tough luck, you bought it. Essentially, you told me that you didn't care and you didn't do refunds.
Were you afraid that no one would buy your disc if you posted it again? Were you happy that someone felt deceived by the auction? I'm still trying to figure out why in the world you just wouldn't take it back IF YOU WEREN'T GOING TO LOSE ANY MONEY TO DO SO??? :confused: What did that prove?
I was simply following the policies on dispute resolution where they said to make an attempt to call the seller. Did I call you at 3am? No. Did I repeatedly call you? No. In fact, the number you had listed for such resolutions was wrong or not connected.

I work in sales and in my business, if I tick someone off, I try to make it right. I don't get a big head or think that they are out to get me. It's called "customer service" and that means making the customer happy. If I don't make my customers happy, they say bad things about me to their friends and that taints my image and destroys what I worked so hard to build.
Would it have hurt to make an effort to rectify the issue instead of being bull-headed and shooting down every solution I tried to come up with to reconcile our differences?

Let me repeat myself "customer service"

If I went about my business like you did, Eric, I'd be a bored and poor man. But I guess when a customer can't come to your office and talk face to face, a lesser man could hide behind their computer and tell their customers to [I'm a potty-mouth]!



again, your words, not mine, I told you that the listing was correct and that I would not issue a refund. I NEVER SAID Tough luck, or swear at you. I had moved in OCT and thats my old phone #, When that number is called it listed my new phone #, it's a nice service. I am sorry if someone else in my house answers the phone, they also get phone calls too, image that.

again, I not the one, starting threats, lieing to paypal, ebay, putting word in other peoples mouth, and making aligations.

Lets mislead everyone here, and maybe you would be happy then?

Everyone should ask sellers questions or request better pictures, rather just bid. People ask for more pictures all the time and I gladly answer and provide them to the best of my ability.

I have made mistakes on bidding on items, but those are my fault not the sellers. It is their choice to issue a refund, not the buyers. I didn't crusade afterwards.

Troof, Look at the picture when you shop on Ebay. If what you get is what is in the picture and it is not what you wanted, take the blame for the mistake. If the picture doesn't match the delivered product, ask the seller for a refund or the right product. I don't know either one of you guys, but if you shop online very often you should know that rule of thumb by now.

BTW I looked at the picture and knew without reading any of the caption or descriptions what was for sale. It was a Tulsa SB Orc and was pictured very clearly.

I have dealt with Eric without a problem!!! sounds like the buyer simply failed to determine what he was actually buying!! sounds like an honest mistake , perhaps a 3 dollar refund would settle this dispute!!

sounds like an honest mistake


I agree!


perhaps a 3 dollar refund would settle this dispute!!


I can understand Eric's reluctance to offer any relief after the vitriolic personal (and public) attack mounted against his integrity.

I have asked this before, was the buyer getting it for collecting or throwing?

If for throwing, it is a nightshift. The nightshift were only called that because they were discovered during a run on the nightshift. Special blend is a nightshift, as the new Star is a nightshift.

if it was for collecting, then buyer beware. I have had my share of "I wish I hadn't bought that." but it happens.

Move on. ;)

I'm just letting everyone know my situation. All I wanted was what I thought I was buying. When something different came, I tried very nicely to resolve the problem, trying to work with eric, not against him. He was very unsympathetic to my request.
When ebay told me "you bought a frisbee, you got a frisbee..." that ticked me off.
What he isn't telling everyone is that I tried, taking his interest into consideration, to rectify the matter so that both parties would be satified. I told him that I would, at my cost, send the disc back, and he could refund the money, and we would walk away. He didn't want any of that. How would that affect him? He would get to sell his disc to someone that really wanted a Tulsa disc and I wouldn't be stuck with a disc that I didn't want to begin with.

Put the darn thing on Ebay then and get over it. It is pretty obvious it wasn't a nightshift by reading the description. Heck when you enter disc golf as the search key, I always get something related to brakes on a VW. Read the description and look at the picture.

saying nightshift plastic is like Special blend plastic is like saying 11x Pro teebirds are just like the new champion plastic of today :)

They are supposed to be the same, but they are not. I have nightshift orcs as well as special blend orcs and rocs. they are different, but very similar.

In any event though.. The seller would be losing money on ebay because they ahve to pay for all the fees associated with the auction. Either they would refund you the money and take a dive on the auction fees or you would end up getting negative feedback and they would have to go through a "failure to Pay" dispute so they could get theyr Seller fees back.

-Scott Lewis

p.s. That's why i hate selling anything on ebay. I sold a BMW mountain bike and it took me 2 months for ebay to give me back my final value and insertion fees because somoene bidded without paying.

Since Nightshift Orcs seem to me far more collectible than the ones that came out as a formal release, i think you have a legitimate beef. The description should be careful and say these aren't the original nightshift Orcs but are the Special Blend Orcs that were stamped as such after the nightshift Orcs became in high demand. To have a mint nightshift Orc would seem to me far more valuable than having a Special Blend (which anyone can buy without an E-bay middleman).

as the disc that triggered the STAR line of plastic, a true Nightshift Orc may be worth a fortune some day and i can see why you were willing to pay what you did. If you knew it was a special blend you probably wouldn't have paid nearly so much. I think the seller should offer some kind of credit to you, but he certainly doesn't have to. i won't buy from him though until he does, thanks for the heads up...

saying nightshift plastic is like Special blend plastic is like saying 11x Pro teebirds are just like the new champion plastic of today :)

They are supposed to be the same, but they are not. I have nightshift orcs as well as special blend orcs and rocs. they are different, but very similar.

In any event though.. The seller would be losing money on ebay because they ahve to pay for all the fees associated with the auction. Either they would refund you the money and take a dive on the auction fees or you would end up getting negative feedback and they would have to go through a "failure to Pay" dispute so they could get theyr Seller fees back.

-Scott Lewis

p.s. That's why i hate selling anything on ebay. I sold a BMW mountain bike and it took me 2 months for ebay to give me back my final value and insertion fees because somoene bidded without paying.



Scott,

Thanks for the two Nightshifts... they look and feel great!

Thanks for the support X. I'm not trying to poke a sleeping bear and I don't want to start problems.
I can say that I didn't 100% understand exactally what the disc was. What I am saying is that I felt like I was misled by both the wording of the item header and description in the aution.
I wonder if he feels like he represented his product to the best of his ability, being 100% truthful about what he was selling...that's all I"m saying.

On the same note, when I order a cheeseburger without mayo and it comes to me with mayo, i'll usually go back and talk with someone about it. I have never heard the response, "it's still a cheeseburger, just scrape it off..."
That's poor customer service.
The customer is the livelyhood of your business, whether you're preparing food, selling a good, or a service.... without the customer, you're out of business.
Simularly, with sales, customer service is everything.
I sell cars and when something goes wrong, I fix it...whether it was my or my customer's fault. I want the happiest customers possible, because a happy customer is a repeat customer...even if the initial contact is a rough one...and you'd be suprised how many times someone that is upset with sales or service can be won over by a small jesture of kindness, putting pride aside, turning them into a LIFELONG customer.

Glad you got them already. that was pretty fast..

HOpe you enjoy throwing/collecting them.. they are definatley some sweet looking discs.

-Scott Lewis

Throwing one, collecting one...

--Erick

first off, you paided $19.99 for the disc... so you really paided $3.99 more than you would have if you had purchase 1 disc from an online store...
image that. again, I not the one, starting threats, lieing to paypal, ebay, putting word in other peoples mouth, and making aligations.



clearly there was no intentional deception in this ebay sale. i just had to point out how proud your english teacher must be.

On the same note, when I order a cheeseburger without mayo and it comes to me with mayo, i'll usually go back and talk with someone about it. I have never heard the response, "it's still a cheeseburger, just scrape it off..."
That's poor customer service.
.



I would have just scraped it off like a man :Dand never buy a cheese burger again., Then start a thread called MC D's Treachery

When you move out of your parent's basement and join the rest of us in the real world, you're going to be sadly suprised that most productive people in society take responsibility for their actions and realize that you can still be wrong and proud at the same time.

Good luck with that.

Even the guy that sold the 4X6 picture of the Xbox 360 for $600+ told all of those people that they were bidding on a picture, that's their fault. At least he was man enough to take a chance by *actually* telling them what they were getting, not just leaving it up to the *interpretation* of the buyer. That's the proper way to rip someone off. I wouldn't be upset if I were dupped like that...

first off, you paided $19.99 for the disc... so you really paided $3.99 more than you would have if you had purchase 1 disc from an online store...
image that. again, I not the one, starting threats, lieing to paypal, ebay, putting word in other peoples mouth, and making aligations.



clearly there was no intentional deception in this ebay sale. i just had to point out how proud your english teacher must be.




WOW, you found the first post in the world with bad spelling and grammer.

It's no different than 75% of the posts on this board. :eek:

WOW, you found the first post in the world with bad spelling and grammer.


grammar

WOW, you found the first post in the world with bad spelling and grammer.

It's no different than 75% of the posts on this board. :eek:



No s h i t, it gets annoying when people start acting like a grammar teacher.

WOW, you found the first post in the world with bad spelling and grammer.


grammar



Ahhh, I can't make everyone happy today. :D

<<< I'll eat that cheeseburger.

This thread is a page and a half long . . .

. . .and nobody is arguing with Nick Kight!?!

:eek: :cool:


Seriously, although I wouldn't be too happy, Egger didn't mislead or screw you. I'd just throw the disc.

I would ship you one. I will post a picture of a big mac missing the middle bun, and the one I am shipping you will be missing the middle bun.So I guess It will not be a Big mac, unless the Nightshift Crew at MC D' is making it. :D

I would ship you one. I will post a picture of a big mac missing the middle bun, and the one I am shipping you will be missing the middle bun.So I guess It will not be a Big mac, unless the Nightschift Crew at MC D' is making it. :D



LMAO! Thanks for the laughs!!!!!

I would ship you one. I will post a picture of a big mac missing the middle bun, and the one I am shipping you will be missing the middle bun.So I guess It will not be a Big mac, unless the Nightshift Crew at MC D' is making it. :D


That is f*$&in' hilarious!!! Kudos!

Even though I was wronged...I'm willing to be the bigger man and try for another solution.

If I wanted a Tulsa disc, where would I go? To the tulsa guys. The point of the fundraiser discs is to raise money for the PDGA events, right?

Try this...You send the $3.99 to twisted flyers from the overage of the sale. That means, that yea, I'm stuck with a SB orc that's under weight for me and I'll deal with that...but that means that the tournament that the disc was made for gets the profit.
Solution? you get to keep your money, Tulsa gets their profit, and I get to stop trying to convince you to be ethical. Everyone wins except for me...doesn't that seem fair?

Board members...does that seem fair to you?

I would ship you one. I will post a picture of a big mac missing the middle bun, and the one I am shipping you will be missing the middle bun.So I guess It will not be a Big mac, unless the Nightshift Crew at MC D' is making it. :D




make sure you call it a quarter pounder in the item description and we'll be on par.

Rare McD's Big Mac:
just like a big mac eaten at mcdonalds. made just like a big mac except without middle bun. Seller will include own special sauce. no refunds as item is described correctly...with meat and bread product.

Actually I probably be lucky if I made $2 on the sale, with buying the disc and paying shipping, then with the crappy Ebay listing fees, finale value fees, and then the Paypal payment transfer free, packaging and shipping fees. My time might be worth some thing too, say $.25


So now we can argue about the $2.00.


How about you come to the Wakanda Open next year and I�ll buy us each a double cheeseburger, not those crappy single cheese burgers.

both our bellies would be bigger

Did someone say Big Belly?

Glad to see that you plan on eating your profits. Might taste better than this tinfoil i'm chewing on.

I would ship you one. I will post a picture of a big mac missing the middle bun, and the one I am shipping you will be missing the middle bun.So I guess It will not be a Big mac, unless the Nightshift Crew at MC D' is making it. :D



make sure you call it a quarter pounder in the item description and we'll be on par.

Rare McD's Big Mac:
just like a big mac eaten at mcdonalds. made just like a big mac except without middle bun. Seller will include own special sauce. no refunds as item is described correctly...with meat and bread product.



But a quarter pounder has one slice of meat and a big mac has 2. would that make it a second run ?
:eek:because it went through the slicer twice ?

How about you come to the Wakanda Open next year and I�ll buy us each a double cheeseburger, not those crappy single cheese burgers.

both our bellies would be bigger



I'll do you one better, I'll pop in to visit you at work when I'm at Highbridge next. I'll make sure that I tell the server exactally what I want on my pizza. You can't mess-up a pepperoni pizza by sending out a mushroom one...although it's still a pizza and I should be happy that I got any pizza at all even though it wasn't what I ordered.
Hey, maybe when I'm visiting, I can bring my magic cards and we can hang out in your parent's basement! I'm sure things would be smoothed over with a little snack of goldfish and kool-aid!

How about you come to the Wakanda Open next year and I�ll buy us each a double cheeseburger, not those crappy single cheese burgers.

both our bellies would be bigger



I'll do you one better, I'll pop in to visit you at work when I'm at Highbridge next. I'll make sure that I tell the server exactally what I want on my pizza. You can't mess-up a pepperoni pizza by sending out a mushroom one...although it's still a pizza and I should be happy that I got any pizza at all even though it wasn't what I ordered.
Hey, maybe when I'm visiting, I can bring my magic cards and we can hang out in your parent's basement! I'm sure things would be smoothed over with a little snack of goldfish and kool-aid!



I'll pass, I am more into these kinda cards killer bunnies (http://www.unclesgames.com/product_info.php?ref=2&products_id=3536&affiliate_banner_id=1)

When you move out of your parent's basement and join the rest of us in the real world, you're going to be sadly suprised that most productive people in society take responsibility for their actions and realize that you can still be wrong and proud at the same time.



How about you take the responsibility of misinterpretting a description and buying something you didn't want? He didn't force you to read the description as being a nightshift orc, and he didnt force you to ignore the picture of the disc. You seem to be ignoring everybody's post that says the description was fair and you only have yourself to blame.

Troof & Egger need a spirited session of one-on-one Flazer Guts.

This is possibly the stupidest thread I have seen in "Equipment" for quite some time ... Good job ... and please pass the whine bottle, my glass is almost empty. ;)

The funny thing is that all this would have been avoided if he had asked a simple question before bidding or after bidding, if he wasn't 100% sure of what it was.

The funny thing is that all this would have been avoided if he had asked a simple question before bidding or after bidding, if he wasn't 100% sure of what it was.




You're right, I should have assumed that what you were selling wasn't actually what you were selling, but just an excuse to trick someone search keywords to buy something that isn't the keyword used to describe the item. Silly me.

Don't you think that its a little immoral to use keywords to guide someone to a product that completely counteracts the keyword search, knowing that if they find the product, they might actually want to buy what they were searching for? Sounds like bait and switch to me. Just alittle illegal in the real business world. The BBB is coming for you with some healthy fines

Try this...You send the $3.99 to twisted flyers from the overage of the sale. That means, that yea, I'm stuck with a SB orc that's under weight for me and I'll deal with that...



Twoputt offered to get you one in your correct weight almost a month ago.

The funny thing is that all this would have been avoided if he had asked a simple question before bidding or after bidding, if he wasn't 100% sure of what it was.




You're right, I should have assumed that what you were selling wasn't actually what you were selling, but just an excuse to trick someone search keywords to buy something that isn't the keyword used to describe the item. Silly me.

Don't you think that its a little immoral to use keywords to guide someone to a product that completely counteracts the keyword search, knowing that if they find the product, they might actually want to buy what they were searching for? Sounds like bait and switch to me. Just alittle illegal in the real business world. The BBB is coming for you with some healthy fines



I didn't mean to get MC'D in trouble, really, but the picture on the menu looks nother like what it got in this card board box :o

Maybe next time I will use BMW or Volvo in the title, and some one will want a car ?

You got exactly what was described. That is the bottom line. In no way is this bait and switch.

Do you remember this line from your original post:
"ERIC E is not one. He will screw you over. Don't buy anything from him unless you want something completely different from what you ordered or want to be ripped-off."

I have an easier time accussing you of libel than him of bait and switch.

From the same online dictionary you quote above:
Main Entry: 1li�bel
Pronunciation: 'lI-b&l
Function: noun
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel.

The most ironic part of this thread is you have given yourself the nickname as "the truth", and your'e also a car salesmen. :eek:

You got exactly what was described. That is the bottom line. In no way is this bait and switch.

Do you remember this line from your original post:
"ERIC E is not one. He will screw you over. Don't buy anything from him unless you want something completely different from what you ordered or want to be ripped-off."

I have an easier time accussing you of libel than him of bait and switch.

From the same online dictionary you quote above:
Main Entry: 1li�bel
Pronunciation: 'lI-b&l
Function: noun
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel.

The most ironic part of this thread is you have given yourself the nickname as "the truth", and your'e also a car salesmen. :eek:



Preacher: "Can I get an undercoating?"
Parishners: "Undercoating"

naaa, amen sound better

How about you take the responsibility of misinterpretting a description and buying something you didn't want? He didn't force you to read the description as being a nightshift orc, and he didnt force you to ignore the picture of the disc. You seem to be ignoring everybody's post that says the description was fair and you only have yourself to blame.



He's absolutely right. If you are to much of an [I'm a potty-mouth!] to actually read an item description on ebay then you have no room to complain. Honestly, I know it sucks to not get what you expected and I know it can [I'm a potty-mouth!] you off, but Troof, you talk about being the bigger man? The bigger man would admit his mistake in perceiving the "not very misleading description" as wrong and stop his ridiculous slander campaign. Plus anybody that starts cracking "move out of your parent's basement" remarks after being so meticulous in trying to ruin a guys reputation doesn't stand high in the "I'll take his opinion into account" category.

Although Eric might not have said it I will...

"Tough luck kid, maybe you learned a lesson"

And I'll be the first to say, I don't know either of these guys from Adam, but this won't stop me from dealing with you Eric, you've always done well in my book.

The most ironic part of this thread is you have given yourself the nickname as "the truth", and your'e also a car salesmen. :eek:



Other have given me the name b/c of my moral standings, ask anyone that knows me beyond the board. IMO, you are still paying off your 1996 kia at 9.99% and are angry at the world for having to ride your bike until your car is payed off in 2012

The most ironic part of this thread is you have given yourself the nickname as "the truth", and your'e also a car salesmen. :eek:



Other have given me the name b/c of my moral standings, ask anyone that knows me beyond the board. IMO, you are still paying off your 1996 kia at 9.99% and are angry at the world for having to ride your bike until your car is payed off in 2012



If he is , then it's only because a car salesman ripped him off :D

Much like the business you're in, there are ethical people and unethical people. That's why I don't sell cars over the internet. People can't tell what kind of a truck stop bathroom stain someone is when they email back and forth...but they realize over time.
My customers are #1 to me, because they are the ones paying for my future. If I screwed everyone over that came to me...my reputation would be tainted and word would spread.
I know pleanty of salesman that weld people into cars, but that's the last time they see any of their money, or their families money, or their friend's, or their friend's friends....so on and so on...

reputation and distinct situations linger much longer than forum topics. People will remember this topic long after it's buried 9 pages into this board...

Much like the business you're in, there are ethical people and unethical people. That's why I don't sell cars over the internet. People can't tell what kind of a truck stop bathroom stain someone is when they email back and forth...but they realize over time.
My customers are #1 to me, because they are the ones paying for my future. If I screwed everyone over that came to me...my reputation would be tainted and word would spread.
I know pleanty of salesman that weld people into cars, but that's the last time they see any of their money, or their families money, or their friend's, or their friend's friends....so on and so on...



oh, you were talking to me , then no, I drive a 2004 GMC Envoy with a 2.9% interest rate, if you want TRUTH

When it breaks down in about 2 years...save all those extra pennies you get from ebay sales and put some money down on a nice German car.

reputation and distinct situations linger much longer than forum topics. People will remember this topic long after it's buried 9 pages into this board...



Doubtful :D

Ever been sold a lemon and felt like somebody stamped SUCKER on your forehead?

I got suckered ONCE...some car dealers are SCUM.

Ever been sold a lemon and felt like somebody stamped SUCKER on your forehead?

I got suckered ONCE...some car dealers are SCUM.



That's why I got into the business. Got suckered. I said, "If some evil jerk can make money, imagine what an ethincal person can do. Make money and retain customers."

I have never met either of you. But I think you are the one receiving the negative reputation. I would do business with Eric in the future, regardless of the stuff you have spewed here.

I would do business with Eric in the future, regardless of the stuff you have spewed here.



what if you were in the situation I was in next time you did business with him? Would you roll over and accept the fact that you got gat? How exactally would you handle things. Feel free to elaborate and I'll let you know if I covered all those step before we got to this point.

I have to agree with Troof, the description was not worded fairly....I have seen and thrown the nightshift orc, the Tulsa orc flies just like a nightshift but they absolutely LOOK different.

Thanks for your unbiased interpretation of the situation. I appreciate your support.

I bought the "NS" for collectibility. Not that a tulsa FR isn't going to be an item, but I believe innova is going to release star orcs eventually, so the stamp will be the only unique thing about it after the Tulsa Open.

I hear you, I would trade my Tulsa Orc for a true nightshift orc right away....I've got a transition color in the Tulsa Orc that is a maroon/purple color, it's #256 out of 500 - FRIKIN SWEET!!

Thanks 2putt ;)

If he would have come from the start by saying, that he made a mistake on bidding on a special blend instead of insisting that I forced him or cheated him, things would have be different. Instead he states

"It looks like you've got alot of positive feedback and I wouldn't want to give you a negative review, that's why I'm giving you the opportunity to redeem yourself. "

As to start off threatening me with negetive feedback and fully blame me for his bidding. Redeem myself, I didn't do anything wrong. Also then start all this crap and try to paint me out as an ebay fraud and bandit. I can see why the PDGA lets only members post here now. So the member don't belittle them and turn them off to the sport by the few people around here.

Not one thing he said is true. he has to resort to lies, name calling and defamation of character. That one customer everyone can live without.

Really, the auction title also reads SB Roc. If you are arguing about what the item title was, (and not the photo) you should be angry that you did not receive a SB roc as well.

Really, the auction title also reads SB Roc. If you are arguing about what the item title was, (and not the photo) you should be angry that you did not receive a SB roc as well.



Hey now, we do not need fuel on the fire :D

to make a 3rd of the people happpy i add the following to the SB orc listings:

These are not nighshift orcs,

These are not nighshift orcs, These are Special Blend Orcs

Both contain the same grip and champion mix, fly the same and feel similar

If you want to throw a nightshift, buy the cheaper Special Blend


Commence stone throwing..................

troof, next time read carefully and notice differences between titles and descriptions. they happen.

eric, be careful about titles and descriptions.

personally, i think eric could/should have been more accurate in the title. but i think it was on troof to read carefully and ask questions before buying. i seriously doubt this was a scam, more like a little carelessness on both sides.

definitely not worth the length of this thread

troof, next time read carefully and notice differences between titles and descriptions. they happen.

eric, be careful about titles and descriptions.

personally, i think eric could/should have been more accurate in the title. but i think it was on troof to read carefully and ask questions before buying. i seriously doubt this was a scam, more like a little carelessness on both sides.

definitely not worth the length of this thread



No doubt about it.

I agree that the carelessness on both sides are to blame. But the hostility from both sides, right from the beginning, didn't help either.

If we are to believe Troof, Eric's response to Troof's first e-mail was "{I'm a really big potty-mouth}, dude. You bought it. Up yours."

If we are to believe Eric, his response was based on Troof's first e-mail that accused Eric of cheating him and threatened negative feedback.

Neither is justified. At this point, I think both sides have presented their cases and there's nothing more that can be said. Time to end this thread.

troof, next time read carefully and notice differences between titles and descriptions. they happen.

eric, be careful about titles and descriptions.

personally, i think eric could/should have been more accurate in the title. but i think it was on troof to read carefully and ask questions before buying. i seriously doubt this was a scam, more like a little carelessness on both sides.

definitely not worth the length of this thread



You got it right sandals. Both of these cats should accept some blame here. First off nightshift was put in the title to draw people to the item when it's definately not a nightshift orc. It's like representing a 4th run CE Valk as a 1st run. They both are CE plastic and they even have the same stamp but are way different in value and flight characteristics. If you heard about nightshift orcs and had never seen one then it is possible you might be mislead even if you read the description. For collecting purposes there is a major difference. As for Troof you have to know going into Ebay that items are misrepresented on a regular basis and this goes for anything you buy. It's a great sight and I love to buy things here but you have to read the descriptions, check feedback, etc...I actually looked at the disc you bought because I wanted an original nightshift but saw the description and moved on as I already have 4 Tulsa Orcs in the 1st 100. In the end it should of been worked out without all the Bull[I'm a potty-mouth!] and trying to ruin someones rep. Hopefully u boys have learned yo lesson! :p

If you heard about nightshift orcs and had never seen one then it is possible you might be mislead even if you read the description. For collecting purposes there is a major difference.



That's my point. I had never seen a nightshift orc. My disc retailer (now closed) had told me about them. dark/medium blue, a "special blend" of plastic...long before the 2005 sb rocs were introduced...which at the time was not as ambiguous as the term now applies.
When I looked at his feedback, he was as close to 100% as one could get, so I bid with confidence that I was getting in fact what was described.
Taking into consideration the super feedback rating, the item description, and not the clearest picture that I could read everything on the label (it was alittle fuzzy and taken at an angle...plus I'd not seen a tulsa disc at the time, so who knew what the tulsa stamp looked like) I thought I was getting a nightshift.
This campaign didn't begin until I was frustrated by the very first reply from the seller of...'I don't issue refunds as the item was accurately described as pictured'...So immediately, he didn't want to work with me to come up with a solution.
I didn't know that I had to get my rhetoric book out and break down everything in his description, questioning the validity of everything written. I trusted all the other people that left him all that A+++++feedback to ensure that I was getting only top quality product from a proven seller, so I don't know why this all took place? :confused:

Looks like there's only one thing left to do. Get a couple of swords and fight to the death. Winner gets the NS/Star Orc

some one call the disc police,

Tmurphy is selling fake nightshifts too

Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/mint-SPECIAL-BLEND-CHAMPION-ORC-175g-disc-golf-frisbee_W0QQitemZ7201743597QQcategoryZ20851QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem)

So I get crapped on for using it in the title

Did anyone even notice that I didnt even spell Nightshift in the title. nighshift ? I just did

The major difference, eric, is TMurph *clearly* indicates that it is as Tulsa Fundraiser Disc....

this auction for brand new mint 175g. ~SPECIAL BLEND/NIGHTSHIFT~ champion plastic ORC. disc is Solid Opaque Red Stiff SPECIAL BLEND/NIGHTSHIFT Plastic With silver hot stamp for the up and coming, 2006 AM JR. WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, Tulsa, Ok.

It must have been tough to tell everyone bidding on it that it was a fundraiser disc...he probably could have made an extra $2 off someone by leaving that very important detail out! :D

DOn't you think TMurph takes nice pictures? I do! Evenly paced in the frame, in focus, and you can clearly read what's stamped on it. What a businessman! what a Champion of the People! Bid with confidence. Tmurph is for real! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So I get crapped on for using it in the title

Did anyone even notice that I didnt even spell Nightshift in the title. nighshift ? I just did



That wouldn't even stand up in Judge Judy's courtroom!
We all know you can't spell anyway (see previous posts)
You Grammar felon!

So I get crapped on for using it in the title

Did anyone even notice that I didnt even spell Nightshift in the title. nighshift ? I just did



That wouldn't even stand up in Judge Judy's courtroom!
We all know you can't spell anyway (see previous posts)
You Grammar felon!



ooohhh and lieing/name calling to her would be much better :p

Lying? /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Here is his paypal complaint

I bid and won a disc golf frisbee that was described as a rare nightshift orc. The poor picture quality could not make out the text on the disc and the description of the item did not clearly indicate that it was not in fact a nightshift orc, but a fundraising disc of different make and mold. When the package arrived, i contacted the seller and he said tough luck, i don't do returns. I contacted him three more times to no avail. I tried to call as instructed by ebay, but his number was not either current or he is not returning my call, but the number was definately not his as a female voice was the outgoing. He is unwilling to refund the total amount and accept shipping of said same condition disc back to him. I feel like I was misled by both the item description and product description. The seller doesn't seem to care at all about my satifaction with his product which in the real world would not do at all. I even gave him a chance to retify the situation before I would give him a negative feedback score, once again to no response. I have been very satisfied by my previous transactions through paypal and ebay, this is the first time I have felt wronged. Please do what you can to bolst my customer confidence in paypal and ebay to right this wrong. If you require further information or copies of the emails we have exchanged, please contact me at: thetruthxl@yahoo.com. Thank you Mark Stubbs

<font color="red">
I never said tough luck, I dont do returns, I replied to every email. my phone was correct, (whoo i have 2 phone numbers danger everyone). fully of brown nosing too. </font>

<font color="red"> He also knew what it was when he got it.</font>

Eric-
I received what I thought was an innova nightshift orc like described in your auction. When I opeded it, it was not a nightshift orc, it was simply a fundraising disc for the tulsa open. These are plentiful (500) and nightshift orcs are extrememly rare. I didn't want a tulsa disc, I could get one of those from the sponsor site for $16 and I'm very upset. I was under the assumption that you as well knew the difference between the two and having sold so many discs as I saw, thought you would to.
I would like to return the disc for a full refund. It is still unthrown, in the original condition that you sent it to me. I would like a full refund of all the money, including shipping, and I will pay for shipping myself.
It looks like you've got alot of positive feedback and I wouldn't want to give you a negative review, that's why I'm giving you the opportunity to redeem yourself.
This disc will find a good home to a happy customer.
Thanks for your understanding,
Mark

actual picture in question (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79804&item=7187258358)

<font color="red"> Who cannot read tulsa on the disc? it's not too hard to read, yes it could be better, but the lighting sucked that the time. not to mention there were serveral other sb orc autioned off at the same time all with differnet pictures to compare, with the same info for each disc except the # </font>

So I get crapped on for using it in the title

Did anyone even notice that I didnt even spell Nightshift in the title. nighshift ? I just did



That wouldn't even stand up in Judge Judy's courtroom!
We all know you can't spell anyway (see previous posts)
You Grammar felon!



ooohhh and lieing/name calling to her would be much better :p



When exactally did i lie? oh yea, must have been when I...bid on a nightshift orc, no, that's not it...maybe, when I followed all of ebay/paypal's policies on item significantly different from listing...no, that wasn't me either...could it be when I decided to tell everyone about what went on? Not really...if you expected me to sit and take it, you haven't dealt with me before. I don't stand down to anyone.

Boy I can't figure out when I became the bad guy :confused:

If I refund your money, will this go away? :o

I want to thank you, Eric for posting my responses to ebay and yourself.

Rereading these shows me how professional and accomodating I tried to be before this point.

He's right, he didn't say tough luck...he simply said with no applicable reason or empathy that "i dont do returns (ad lib)" with no consideration.

Once again, Eric, thank you for posting that information. I know that those that were on the fence will see that I tried to take care of the situation within every boundary that ebay gave me and tried to come up with a solution that would be both positive and beneficial to both parties.

Mark Stubbs
thetruthxl@yahoo.com

(in case you missed it in the original post)

I want to thank you, Eric for posting my responses to ebay and yourself.

Rereading these shows me how professional and accomodating I tried to be before this point.

He's right, he didn't say tough luck...he simply said with no applicable reason or empathy that "i dont do returns (ad lib)" with no consideration.

Once again, Eric, thank you for posting that information. I know that those that were on the fence will see that I tried to take care of the situation within every boundary that ebay gave me and tried to come up with a solution that would be both positive and beneficial to both parties.

Mark Stubbs
thetruthxl@yahoo.com

(in case you missed it in the original post)



That didnt carry over to here, now did it. You just cannot admit that you made a mistake.

If you want a refund, if you ship it back , I will take care of your mistake.

[quote
If you want a refund, if you ship it back , I will take care of your mistake.

[/QUOTE]

Please detail for me exactally what you are proposing.

[quote
If you want a refund, if you ship it back , I will take care of your mistake.



Please detail for me exactally what you are proposing.

[/QUOTE]

pistols at dawn


ship the disc back and I will refund you, your full purchase price + shipping

Other wise this will never end, I tired of trying to defend myself and give up

I will ship the disc back.

Thank you.

Please pm me your current shipping address.

That is very big of you.

Thank you.


Thread OVER.

Hurray!

Its over!

The war is over! :D

Is this thread dead yet? 5 pages of bickering? Isnt there a PM function? :confused:

Disc Golf........

Peace, Love, and Harmony.....

And for a short time only.......... Refunds . :D

I'm glad you guys got that worked out. :)

Right or wrong it was definitely a cool move on your part Eric. :cool:

Sorry, my .02 here.......

Both are wrong in the following respect:

1. Ths disc seller should not have used the Nightshift Orc in the description, thus not leaving any room for it being mis-read by any potential buyer.

2. The buyer should have at the very least questioned the picture of the disc being that the stamps on the Nightshift Orcs did not contain any relation to Tulsa or the Worlds, so far as I knew. (Come to think of it, I really dont know what one looks like either....lol, but I do know the Tulsa SB Orcs were not the coveted Nighshift Orcs.)

Looks like (IMO) someone used a normal ebay tactic and someone took the bait. Sorry this is not intended to be-little anyone, but just to point out the need for being extremely careful about using ebay. For those who havent seen the xbox 360 thread, check it out for real ebay treachery! ($6K for PSP box!)

eric{ 1 (at least)

troof: 0


i wonder what part of "Tulsa" and "243 of 500" made troof not ask questions. :eek: :D

On the same note, when I order a cheeseburger without mayo and it comes to me with mayo, i'll usually go back and talk with someone about it. I have never heard the response, "it's still a cheeseburger, just scrape it off..."
That's poor customer service.
.



I would have just scraped it off like a man :Dand never buy a cheese burger again., Then start a thread called MC D's Treachery

\

McD's doesn't put mayo on their cheeseburgers anyway... thats B-Bops

You do have a point there. I saw the auction too. It was listed just fine.

ship the disc back and I will refund you, your full purchase price + shipping

Other wise this will never end, I tired of trying to defend myself and give up




Eric, do not tell me that you're giving in! If you give in, you're just letting him get his way. He's like a child who threw a hissy fit and kept crying until he got his way. I dont care how long it takes, you can't let somebody like this win!

For all of you that were financially unattached, but emotionally attached...I've removed the negative feedback from ebay for thanks to erics cooperation in the deal.

I'm not such a bad guy ;)

ship the disc back and I will refund you, your full purchase price + shipping

Other wise this will never end, I tired of trying to defend myself and give up




Eric, do not tell me that you're giving in! If you give in, you're just letting him get his way. He's like a child who threw a hissy fit and kept crying until he got his way. I dont care how long it takes, you can't let somebody like this win!



I agree. I saw the auction(s) as well and before I even clicked on it i knew it wasnt a "real" nightshift orc. Pretty easy to tell.

E-bay is an expensive way to sell discs but you can't beat the exposure. The fees e-bay and paypal charge take up about 1/2 the profit you make on a normal available disc. Sell DX and e-bay/paypal get more than 50% of the profit. I take care of any REASONABLE request for refunds/ returns but I try to avoid them by describing accurately and avoiding bad grammar....I see alot of e-bay sellers don't use complete sentences or proper grammar and this inaccurate communication leads to the majority of problems. I had a guy buy a disc and when he got it he told me he didn't realize he was buying a mini....sometimes stupidity is the problem....if you have seen my ads they are very accurate.

and avoiding bad grammar....I see alot of e-bay sellers don't use complete sentences or proper grammar .... sometimes stupidity is the problem....if you have seen my ads they are very accurate.



You can start your proper grammar and lack of stupidity by spelling it "a lot" instead of "alot."

U R brutal....iz it tuff beeing purfect?

U R brutal....iz it tuff beeing purfect?



is it not "BrewtL" :D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

U R brutal....iz it tuff beeing purfect?



is it not "BrewtL" :D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



BrewtL? Is that a beer with a leopard bottom? :o

U R brutal....iz it tuff beeing purfect?



is it not "BrewtL" :D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



BrewtL? Is that a beer with a leopard bottom? :o



Probably just less stable beer....