The Orc (champ & pro versions) is in my bag and isn't going anywhere. I have a Champion Starfire (the X mold) and a Pro Wraith in the bag, and i am trying to figure out whether to keep both or if they overlap so i can trim a mold out. But, if i stick with the Wraith i am going to go with the Champion (or S.T.A.R. once it's available) because my home course (Idlewild) is incredibly wooded & long :D

So how do discaholics out there feel about the Champ Wraith vs. the Champ Starfire-X vs the Champ Orc vs. the Starfire-L? where does the Starfire-L fall? between the Orc and the Sidewinder?

here's what i am thinking:

Sidewinder (flippiest during high speed turn and least amount of slow speed stability)
Starfire-L (flippy during high speed, some slow speed fade)
Champ Orc (slightly flippy during high speed phase, overstable slow speed finish)
Wraith (stable at high speed, overstable slow speed finish)
Starfire-X (stable at high speed, overstable slow speed finish)

the Starfire-X is good into the wind -- is the Wraith better in headwinds?

all of these discs seem to have great speed & glide

also, i hear the Wraith and Sidewinder fly very well even when thrown with moderate power (say when thrown at 60% of your power). comments? how are others out there choosing which of the above models are in, vs. out of, the bag?

Just my opinion, I can throw the starfire, and I actually have one that's become a roller in my bag now... but I personally do not have the arm to throw the wraith, it is much too unpredicable for me because I can't wing it 400+, I've thrown champ sidewinders, orcs, and wraiths as well as pro line and the most predictable and probably longest (uncomfirmed) driver that I have in my bag is the new star line orc.

It isn't as flippy as the champ was for me and I like the lip better than the sidewinder. I see alot of guys getting much better results with the wraith but for me I just don't have the power it needs.

i take it you are talking about the Pro Starfire (which is the starfire-L mold)? thanks for your input.

I have only thrown the Pro Wraith, not the champ, but have thrown all the others, and the Wraith gets the most D, and it straighter than any of them.....

I dont understand the "not enough arm" thing about the Pro Wraith.....

I max out at like 350 on a good rip, and absolutely love this disc....

I carry 2 Orcs, Pro and Champ Starfires, and 2 Pro Wraiths in my bag......among others....

The Pro Wraith and Starfires are both in my bag...I'm finding them to be fairly interchangeable on most holes. They are both also easily the longest discs I've ever thrown. The Wraith is slightly more stable than the Starfire, but I've found they can still be turned over fairly easily (and I'm not big arm either).

I also have a CFR Wraith, and it's a totally different disc than the Pro Wraith. Not nearly as much distance for me (although still a long range disc), but much more overstable. I use this disc when I need to pull hard and have it hold a tight line for a long distance before coming back predicatbly left.

I still keep a Champion Orc in the bag too, and consider it my "sniper" disc...while not as long or fast as the Wraith or Starfire, I feel very confident using the Orc for shorter distances where accuracy and predictability are paramount.

These are exactly my observations on these discs.

Though the Pro Wraith is listed as having less high speed turn as a Pro Starfire, I think it turns just as much as a Pro Starfire.

As listed, the Pro Wraith has more low speed fade than the Pro Starfire.

Innova Discs and Epicenter Disc Golf Services are preparing to release a limited number of dyed, custom stamped, Star (special blend) Wraith's to raise money for the 2006 Pro World Championship in Augusta. Special thanks to Innova for the opportunity to use this disc as a fundraiser and also to Jay "J-Bird" Mathes for dyeing these discs for us.

http://members.aol.com/epicenterdg/StarWraith.jpg

awesome! although "fund raiser" is one word i think.

awesome! although "fund raiser" is one word i think.



Now that is funny :D

I have all of these same discs in the bag currently, however Ill be trimming it slightly before spring. I lean on the champ glow Starfire x's to get my maximum distance. I cant seem to get either the pro line or the champ Wraith to get as far as the Starfires. I use the Starfire L's for those long turn overs. Sidewinders for the shorter turn overs. I throw the Orcs religously as well. I just love the SB Orcs (pre Starline) and cant wait to get my hands on the rest of the expected Starline! With that being said the Wraiths will probably come out until the Starline Wraith is released then it will be back in for a second try.

Champ Orcs - I can flip
Starline Orcs - I can not flip
Champ Starfire X - I can not flip
Champ Starfire L - I can flip
Starline Starfire (X-L?) - ???
Champ Sidewinder - I can flip
Starline Sidewinder - ???