I looking for a dependable Innova putter that isn't too hard. I thought about trying to find a JK Aviar but I am not sure which way I should go. I would like to buy about three and break them in and learn them. I am sure the topic has been covered before, but does anyone have any suggestion? Thanks!

I would recommend sticking with the Aviar whether it be a P/A Aviar a JK Aviar, Grid Stamp Big Bead or a KC Aviar.

Before Discraft came out with the Challenger I putted with 10X KC Aviars and those were great for me because I like a stiff putter but if you like a soft Putter then go ahead and get some 4 or 5X JK Aviars and practice with those. If I were you I would get a stack of 5 or 10 ( I myself have 20 challengers to practice with) and just use 1 while your playing but practice with all of them so they all wear at pretty much the same rate.

If you dont like the bead on the JK or KC then you might want to try the P/A Aviars

Yes, I have a jk 3x aviar, very soft and I loved it, for almost 4 years. The problem with the aviar, is trying to replace it and then breaking it in over time. So I switched over to the Wizzard, which performs much better for me and I can do more with it. I had been carrying it and using it for selected anhyzer shots, then one day I forgot my aviar and had to use the wizzard exclusively and had one of my best days of putting ever. Have been using only the wizzard for about a month and I am hitting more putts. It just works for me.
Plus I can find them all day long for about $5-$6. I use the soft model, which when compared to the Aviar I used it is much stiffer.

I still carry my aviar like it's some kind of security blanket. I know its there if I need it, but that hasn' happened yet.

If you don't know what you want, then you definitely don't need to limit yourself to one type of putter. Try putters from all of the companies. Innova, Discraft, Gateway, etc.....all make great putters.

Since putting is what this game comes down to you need to experiment with a lot of different ones. Find the one that feels the best, and goes in the most. :D

Which of these has the smallest bead JK, KC P/A? Also, I am not looking for a soft floppy putter. I need something soft enough that I can press down into in and one that is a little tacky to the touch.

Get a Birdie. They rule.

Get a Birdie. They rule.



Now thats just plain MEAN!!!

P&A is small bead.
KC and JK are big bead.

Go to a disc shop and grope as many putters as you can. Pick the one that feels best in your hand and then learn how to putt with it.

Wizard all the way. Get a Soft or a Super Soft. Aviars are the weakest link! :D

You should try the Omega Super Soft!

Get a Birdie. They rule.


That's nasty...

The softest aviar I have, I think is the putt and approach. I started with magnet, progressed to aviar, and now use a wizard.

If you're interested in trying a wizard, there's a super soft. I recommend the midnight; they are sweet.

My second choice is the ct challenger. one of the reasons I choose the wizard is price. The challenger is a nice putter too.

I'm still toying around with going to a pro d challenger. It's a toss up. The wizard performs better for me in the wind.

What your looking for sounds like the JK aviar X "proto". mark at discgolfvalues.com has them. I'm sure he has quite a few left, but I got a few a while back, and they are a tacky unique blend of plastic, soft, not floppy, and firm out by the rim. They are by far the best feeling in the hands that I have ever tried.

I was going to suggest that too dm4_.
I really like that putter, but don't use it for ANYTHING other than putting or you will end with a floppy pancake-looking disc.
I need to go buy another one....these things stick in the chains pretty well.
But I still only use my one "lucky" Wizard when I play. (171g Soft)

I also may be trying some soft Magnets here shortly.....see how they are.

Soft magnet is hands down the best putter ever produced.

I rely on a standard DX rhyno... I have yet to find anything else that works as well for me.

I second the choice for rhyno...straight flight with very predictable fade...use it for putts and approaches up to 150. I used an SE soft rhyno for a while but have recently switched to Pro. Grippy in the hand and soft on the chains. I'll even throw it for tee shots on open holes <250.

Hop off the Innova train and try the Gateway Wizard. I recommend the Soft for putting and the Medium for all types of approach.

I personally prefer a 171g piece of rubber vomit 50 feet & in & the lid of a pickle bucket for upshots. Oh, yeah, and a novelty giant wooden nickel in heavy wind. :D

Ray either you need to eat some meat...or you been hangin' with Quidam too long!

Putter - Aviar, left in the sun for awhile to concave the top, preferrably lime green with the old "hands" stamp.

Are the Soft and Super Soft Wizards Flippy/Floppy? Back earlier in the summer I made the decision to buy the 10 Wizard deal for practice putters but they are all Medium. What's the difference between Medium and the Soft versions?

Thanks

Are the Soft and Super Soft Wizards Flippy/Floppy? Back earlier in the summer I made the decision to buy the 10 Wizard deal for practice putters but they are all Medium. What's the difference between Medium and the Soft versions?

Thanks



The Soft Wizards are more pliable in the flight plate, but are still far from floppy. I think they're still on the stiff side for most DX/Pro D type plastics. The Super Soft Wizards are softer still and are similar to other "Soft" putters. They still hold their shape well and I wouldn't call them "floppy." My E Wizard is "floppier" than my SS Wizard, but nothing like a Blowfly or the Supreme plastic Ching discs.

I just happen to have a few Wizards sitting here. The only difference I can "feel" is that the Soft Wizard flex is from the center of the disc to the rim. The Medium Wizard flex is from center to about halfway to the rim. Does that make sense? The super-softs are not a whole lot softer than the soft, but enough that you can feel a little more flex in the center. They still have a pretty rigid feel around the rim. I have a pretty hard time turning over any Wizard that isn't totally beat.

I like to try a lot of different putters, and recently tried the JK, KC and DX Aviars. I like them all, and they are all great putters. If you like floppy, the 4x JK is floppy. The 5x JK's are firmer and really, really nice putters IMO. The KC is stiff, like a med-hard Wizard. The DX is a great turnover putter and awesome for short right turn shots up to 200ft.
JK flips up flat really nice, but doesn't turn over too easy. KC is more like a Wizard and won't flip unless it's beat. DX turns over nice for nice long gliding hyser, straight or anhyser shots.
Personally, I'm throwing 173-174 1st run, black, Soft Challengers right now. Something about this putter is working for me (and I have 6 that I practice with daily), and I'm not about to mess with a good thing. I feel like I can make any shot or approach with the SC, but it requires good spin control.

However, I like to change things up now-and-then to see if my putting is improving ... or if it's all about the disc. Most often, it's my putting, and after a short period of practice, I can get any putter dialed.

Nice !!!!!!!
"Most often, it's my putting, and after a short period of practice, I can get any putter dialed" !!!!!!!

That's it really !!!!!! Could not have said it better !!!!!! :D

I love the Pro Rhyno. I actually preferred the Ching Fusion Tank, which was a beadless Rhyno that flew quite a but straighter, but that's been discontinued. I also use the Rhyno for approaches. The best thing about them is despite being easy to throw, they don't want to stay in the air. Even if you completely miss metal on a long go-for-it putt, they aren't going to be very far from the hole. Ditto for approaches; they aren't going to glide away on you.

The Rhyno also has a very shallow rim, like a driver. I haven't found another putter like that. I happen to like that a lot, almost as much as the lack of glide. YMMV.

thought i would throw my two cents in.

I love the omega super soft. I don't putt with anything else. Plus in cold weather they don't feel as hard as a rock in my hand. But as stated before only putt with them no upshots.

I used to putt with soft magnets but the newer ones dont fly the same for me as the older ones.

I wanted to try the JK aviar. I went to innova south and was looking at them and to me the JK's got a lot more soft at the 174-175 range.

The wizards are a great disc for upshots( for me)

Just remember Find what works for you the best. depending on how serious you are you might want stock up on them
and practice, practice, practice.

WIZARDS are the way to go. They are great putters and are the best driving putters around.

WIZARDS are the way to go. They are great putters and are the best driving putters around.



Word. Give 'em a go...you won't be let down!!!

So now there have been about 15 different putters recommended to this guy. I bet he is pretty confused.

So now there have been about 15 different putters recommended to this guy. I bet he is pretty confused.



Yeah but the Wiz has been mentioned about two times as much. :o:o

Well, if you are looking for a new putter ... it is going to be confusing, because there are so many putters out there, and then there are people that have to say a particular "brand" of putter is going to make them putt better. I don't believe that, and those comments are what make it confusing.
Get a Wizard, JK, KC, Magnet, Challenger, JUJU, blowfly, superpuppy ... or a brick. What ever you get, it's going to work, but the most important thing is throw it till you know it.
Recommending brands or models isn't the most helpful advice.

Well, if you are looking for a new putter ... it is going to be confusing, because there are so many putters out there, and then there are people that have to say a particular "brand" of putter is going to make them putt better. I don't believe that, and those comments are what make it confusing.
Get a Wizard, JK, KC, Magnet, Challenger, JUJU, blowfly, superpuppy ... or a brick. What ever you get, it's going to work, but the most important thing is throw it till you know it.
Recommending brands or models isn't the most helpful advice.



Well said; thanks for providing a non-insane synopsis of my "rubber vomit" post. :D

Although the point may be argued that all putters are the same within the circle, I for one disagree, the same can not be said for that putters use for an up shot or driving disc. This is where the wizard stands apart from anything else. You can change molds if you want once you get close but I prefer to simplify and be used to just one putter mold. The wizard is the best disc inside 250 IMO, it also happens to be a solid close range putter as well.

So now there have been about 15 different putters recommended to this guy. I bet he is pretty confused.



Yeah but the Wiz has been mentioned about two times as much. :o:o


That's because only the gateway guys are on here posting. The other players are out there touring and playing. ;)
JUST KIDDING! I'd like to try a wizard if I could find a place that fricken sells em. I'd like to at least touch one before I have to commit to buying one.

Whatever putter feels good in your hand is probably the best one for you. From 15 - 35 feet almost every putter made is going to fly about the same. Stick with the same mold and buy at least 5 of them to practice with. Putting is pretty much muscle memory and confidence, so using the same mold and weight putter will help with the muscle memory part, while a putter that feels good should help with the confidence. I would suggest a KC Aviar or a CT Challenger if you like stiffer plastic or an Aviar P/A or JK if you like softer plastic and I would definately stick with Innova or Discraft cause they are more popular and easier to purchase/replace.

So now there have been about 15 different putters recommended to this guy. I bet he is pretty confused.



Yeah but the Wiz has been mentioned about two times as much. :o:o


I bet Ganzel has a few; he's the guy who got me throwing 'em!
That's because only the gateway guys are on here posting. The other players are out there touring and playing. ;)
JUST KIDDING! I'd like to try a wizard if I could find a place that fricken sells em. I'd like to at least touch one before I have to commit to buying one.

WIZARDS are the way to go. They are great putters and are the best driving putters around.



Hey Scooter ,

Some guy here was asking me if they ever made BLACK Wizards !!!!

[QUOTE]
Well, if you are looking for a new putter ... it is going to be confusing, because there are so many putters out there, and then there are people that have to say a particular "brand" of putter is going to make them putt better. I don't believe that, and those comments are what make it confusing.
Get a Wizard, JK, KC, Magnet, Challenger, JUJU, blowfly, superpuppy ... or a brick. What ever you get, it's going to work, but the most important thing is throw it till you know it.
Recommending brands or models isn't the most helpful advice.



Although I agree that you have to actually try a putter to see if it works for you, getting advice helps narrow down the choices. You do want to avoid brand whor's. People that just throw Innova will say their brand is better; the same with other companies. However, you can get good advice on these boards.

It was on the advice of the board that I discovered the wizard and other discs. Those that suggested it gave me their reasoning, which made it worth my while to try. Perhaps the Gateway reps were trying to sell a product, but they told me why they recommended it. Not just the Gateway #1 b.s.

So now there have been about 15 different putters recommended to this guy. I bet he is pretty confused.



Yeah but the Wiz has been mentioned about two times as much. :o:o


That's because only the gateway guys are on here posting. The other players are out there touring and playing. ;)
JUST KIDDING! I'd like to try a wizard if I could find a place that fricken sells em. I'd like to at least touch one before I have to commit to buying one.



I'm not a Gateway guy, but wizards make me want to try other Gateway products...

So now there have been about 15 different putters recommended to this guy. I bet he is pretty confused.



Yeah but the Wiz has been mentioned about two times as much. :o:o


That's because only the gateway guys are on here posting. The other players are out there touring and playing. ;)
JUST KIDDING! I'd like to try a wizard if I could find a place that fricken sells em. I'd like to at least touch one before I have to commit to buying one.



Yeah, Ganzel is a Wizard thrower. Try one of his out. They are sweet.

WIZARDS are the way to go. They are great putters and are the best driving putters around.



Hey Scooter ,

Some guy here was asking me if they ever made BLACK Wizards !!!!



They there are black ones. Btw most innova and Discraft throwers when asked what is thier favorite disc from another company they will tell you thi Wizard. :o

The funny thing is...No one asked him, he just like talking to you.

The funny thing is...No one asked him, he just like talking to you.



Actually that is Michael Jackson stuff. :D

The funny thing is...No one asked him, he just like talking to you.



Actually that is Michael Jackson stuff. :D



Actually, its Donny stuff :D

WIZARDS are the way to go. They are great putters and are the best driving putters around.



Hey Scooter ,

Some guy here was asking me if they ever made BLACK Wizards !!!!



They there are black ones. Btw most innova and Discraft throwers when asked what is thier favorite disc from another company they will tell you thi Wizard. :o



Thanks Scooter , yea , this good kid , Eddie Spracklin , here in San Diego , just asked me , so I thought I'd check with the source. Who do I contact to get one of these Black Wizards for him ?

Your help is appreciated !!!!!

Thanks Scooter , yea , this good kid , Eddie Spracklin , here in San Diego , just asked me , so I thought I'd check with the source. Who do I contact to get one of these Black Wizards for him ?

Your help is appreciated !!!!! You can send me a PM if needed.

Call the shop:
(314) 487-5204

I'm not a Gateway guy, but wizards make me want to try other Gateway products...



That was me six months ago. So I bought a sabre. short driver, long mid, perfectly controllable, stays on whatever line you pick. So, I bought an element X ... great mid, plastic feels great, easy to throw and very controllable. So, I bought an illusion ... I only got it saturday, but it's already replaced my crush... overstable [I'm a potty-mouth!], feels better for a forehand throw than any other disc including the flick... I can't wait until it gets beat.

They haven't let me down yet, and I now carry more Gateway than innova or discraft (if you include all four wizards that is)

In other words, try it ... you may like it.

Thank you for staying open minded and trying new discs. The Sabre and Blaze are cRaZy under-rated and I'm glad you have found their uses!!!

Funny. Same exact thing happened to me. I started throwing Wizards a couple months ago and I now have 2 Sabres heading my way. After reading about the flight characteristics I had to have one......so I bought two :D

Back on subject: I think a SuperSoft Wizard will be my next disc. Sunking has a glow model....sweet. I think I'll buy 2 :)

OMG ... yet another sad Gateway sales push thread. :p

Seriously, the Wizard is a great putter ... I bought a few early spring, and after going to the GW shop in St. Loowee this summer, I own a stack of them. However great the Wiz is though, there are still some other really great putters out there, and i have suggested some of them in my previous posts. You can't go wrong by starting with a Gateway disc ... but then you can't really go wrong by starting with some of the other options either.

^^^ lol.
Yes, Gateway did pay me to post that. I'm waiting for my check GDS.

Seriously. I've tried a few of other putters, Aviar, Rhyno, Omega SS, and a Mercury (<- lol, that's the putter that comes with the InStep basket) but I liked the Wiz the best. If I had to choose one that I liked just as much as the Wizard it would be the Omega.
The only problem with the Omega is that it got too floppy, too fast.

As stated earlier, it's not the putter, it's the puttee :D

OMG ... yet another sad Gateway sales push thread. :p

Seriously, the Wizard is a great putter ... I bought a few early spring, and after going to the GW shop in St. Loowee this summer, I own a stack of them. However great the Wiz is though, there are still some other really great putters out there, and i have suggested some of them in my previous posts. You can't go wrong by starting with a Gateway disc ... but then you can't really go wrong by starting with some of the other options either.



Well, I was responding to another poster who expressed curiousity. I know that there are many good putters out there, as I tried most of them. I never like the feel of an Aviar in my hand, and many of the good putters are aviar knock-offs (omega) or really similar copies (challenger). I've used a magnet, a rhynos, a Putt'r, aviar p&a, and APX swirl, I even used a beat roc for almost a year.

I bet you can guess which one worked best for me....

IMHO...
APX and the Putt'r were very controllable for putting, but not very good for longer shots as they tend to be understable.
Magnet was a very close second.
Aviar is a great disc that just feels awkward in my hand... a big bead aviar may have been perfect for me, but the small bead feels like it was falling out rather than a clean release.
Rhyno was just too overstable.
Challenger was gonna be next on my try out list, but I found something that works well and stuck with it.

and trying everything out there and sticking to what works is the only way to find your putter, as a forum post is going to be a popularity contest, and what works for me may be trash to you.

The only putter you'll ever need is the JK Aviar.

One Sound JKnorth.

OMG ... yet another sad Gateway sales push thread. :p

but then you can't really go wrong by starting with some of the other options either.



Not a sales pitch. Many of us recommending the wizard don't work nor are sponsored by Gateway. Btw, I still need to get me a max weight blaze.

Though my line up for the wind right now is: demon, predator, and avenger.

Gateway makes a good product; do not overlook them.

Oh, the reason I chimed in here (damned I lose focus easily): try the midnight wizard! I was using the firm, and it was awesome but the soft max weight midnight is better. The firm is still a tad better in the wind [30 mph or so]. (CT challenger a close second)

Gateway dudes, are the midnights a regular production? or do I need to fill my other closet with them.

Can you describe what a midnight wizard is?

I am trying to be open minded but do want a putter with a small bead. I have alredy ordered two JK-X , I have a soft wizard, may consider a gateway...but what has a sball bead. I have been putting with a dx roc because that is what felt good to me, so I have sort of become comfortable with the smaller bead discs.

P&A is small bead.
KC and JK are big bead.

Go to a disc shop and grope as many putters as you can. Pick the one that feels best in your hand and then learn how to putt with it.

Omegas also have small beads.

Can you describe what a midnight wizard is?


The midnight wizard that's being produced right now is in the "proto style" plastic. Its grippy, and when one starts to use it, it has a "chalky" look to it. And, as you can tell by the name, it's black. There are also midnight wizards made with actual proto platic as well (which is what I personally putt with), but the newer midnights feel pretty close to them.

link to midnight wizard

Ok there is no such thing as a "Midnight" wizard. Hank just called it that because it was black. I have two of these in the "SS" plastic and I use them quite a lot for putting as they are very grippy ans soft. They also make a great approch putter. :D

I think this is the disc Hank is refering to, Black Proto Wizard (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3131-SWZBS). But if you are looking for small, or no-bead putters, this is not the disc you want. This disc has a big honker bead and flies like a brick ... they are just plain bad ... don't buy any, right Hank? (Hank jumps up and down shouting "They are all MINE, MINE! YOU CAN"T HAVE THEM!"
Pro Aviars, DX Aviars ... no bead, very nice putters. Gateway will be coming out with a new beadless putter sometime ... maybe by 2012, lol. OK, maybe sooner, but who knows when.

I feel stupid asking this, but what are you referring to when you discuss bead? I've heard it before and even used it myself, but I guess I never knew what I was talking about.

Call the shop:
(314) 487-5204



Thanks Chris !!!!! I'll provide Eddie the info !!!!!! :D

Call the shop:
(314) 487-5204



Thanks Chris !!!!! I'll provide Eddie the info !!!!!! :D



Glad that didn't get lost in the mix!!

I know these are not putters ... couldn't find any good example of putter profiles that show this.
Spectra is a Venom with a bead. http://sopris.net/~jjmcmullen/images/SPECTRA.gif
Venom has no bead. http://sopris.net/~jjmcmullen/images/VENOM.jpg

Are you sure a Spectra is a Venom with a bead or are you going by that picture???

I feel stupid asking this, but what are you referring to when you discuss bead? I've heard it before and even used it myself, but I guess I never knew what I was talking about.



at the bottom of the rim, there is a small bump on a beaded disc. it usually makes the disc more overstable.

here is a beaded disc...
http://www.discraft.com/Disc%20Golf/Profiles/Wasp.gif

this disc is not beaded...
http://www.discraft.com/Disc%20Golf/Profiles/Challenger.gif

The challenger actually has a very small bead, but it is difficult to see in that profile.

I know these are not putters ... couldn't find any good example of putter profiles that show this.
Spectra is a Venom with a bead. http://sopris.net/~jjmcmullen/images/SPECTRA.gif
Venom has no bead. http://sopris.net/~jjmcmullen/images/VENOM.jpg




I don't think it ia a beaded Venom because that would cause it to be more overstable. :o

I test flew some Spectra prototypes, before jim added the bead.
It is not anthing like the venom as the height of the nose from the bead is much greater in the venom making it more overstable, if you added the bead it would be more like a Spirit or speed demon.
The spectra also has much more dome. The combination of less height from nose to bead and more dome makes the spectra an undertsable disc like the road runner and most likely why the bead was added.

I think profile was more in line with what I was trying to say, low profile. I don't want a putter with a high profile although I know it must have some to increase drag. Something middle of the line and not "chubby" in the hand.

I think this is the disc Hank is refering to, Black Proto Wizard (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3131-SWZBS). But if you are looking for small, or no-bead putters, this is not the disc you want. This disc has a big honker bead and flies like a brick ... they are just plain bad ... don't buy any, right Hank? (Hank jumps up and down shouting "They are all MINE, MINE! YOU CAN"T HAVE THEM!"
Pro Aviars, DX Aviars ... no bead, very nice putters. Gateway will be coming out with a new beadless putter sometime ... maybe by 2012, lol. OK, maybe sooner, but who knows when.



That's exactly the one I meant; that's where I bought it from too.

And scooter, I didn't call it a midnight cause it was black; that would be silly. I called it the midnight wizard cause that's the time I wrote the post. :p

Hey guys: I went to Sun king's site to check some prices, and they have that wizard listed as the midnight wizard.

http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? Sun King (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?)

Incidentally, mine came with no markings on them. Just a nice black disc to be thrown at midnight. Tee hee.

Here's a better link for the midnight Wizard. link (http://www.sunkingdiscs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=3131-SWZBS&Category_Code=3131)

Yesterday I took my Wizard & my Omega SS with me. On all putting shots I threw them both. I can't say I was more successful with one over the other......

On a bad note: I think I left one of my practice Wizards at one of the courses I went too in the last couple days.... I feel like I lost a child. Now I only have 4

Speaking of putters, I'm definitely loving the wizard...

also I just found 7 mint Swirl Apx's 174. Anyone interested in 1 or two? PM me.

I got two JK-X's in on Saturday and have been throwing them around a little.......I won't make a call on these just yet, they feel good to the hands but need to see what happens when they get a little more broken in.....I have to push them a little left because they are new...

They are good putters(I used them for three years) but they have a big weakness in the wind and I feel that a Wiz gives a more consistant flight in all conditions and all together is a better putter.

Scoot_er, how many Wiz's/putter-molds do you carry in your tourney bag?

Speaking of putters, I'm definitely loving the wizard...

also I just found 7 mint Swirl Apx's 174. Anyone interested in 1 or two? PM me.



The apx's are nice, but I didn't like them in the wind.

I never saw a reply: are the black (non-midnight, whatever they are called) wizards a regular production? special run?

Scoot_er, how many Wiz's/putter-molds do you carry in your tourney bag?



1 "E"
1 proto
1 SS
1 soft

The last three are pretty much the same.

And the SS is as hard as a KC avair. Go figure that.

UMMM no. the mediums are though :D

I've got one of those grainy protos (170g) in my stacks...I like the texture. I've just never completely warmed up to BB's, KC's, JK's, Challengers, Wizards...nor have I preferred any kind of soft putter with the exception of a SE/ Proline Rhyno...though a soft Challenger was very close to remaining in my bag.

I'm going to get one of the glow Wizards, though...they too have a nice feel...the main reason is for the extended glow-ability (I've heard) for night/glow DG. How would you compare glows to the other Wizards in terms of hardness/softness?

The S Glo's I have are med....

I use:
S Glo
S SS
Swirl Apx

They are a little stiffer but they feel like a soft or med.

I saw a cool glow semi-dyed Wizard in Omaha at a tourney...and I'm STILL kicking myself for not getting it! :mad:/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Was it an "e"? If it was they do a lot of them and justin does some sweet dyes :D

I'm not sure...it seemed to have just a few random colored spots on an ivory/off-white disc. I liked the plastic's feel as it reminded me of the UV Challenger I have.

Those were E Wizards which of course are meant for driving and laying up and a bit overstable for some to putt with.
I'm guesing when we do the beadless wizard ( Magic) it will be closer to a straight putter in the E and hopefully a bit understable in the S.

One thing to remember about our grading system for our S wizards is that it is also based on surface grip.
A medium and soft that feel the same at first will definately change to become less flexible with usage or by flexing!

Here's the reason: :cool:

We combine polymers for the diffferent flexibilities by mixing them ourselves instead of having them compounded into one homoginized pellet by a compounder.
The softer of the combined materials always migrate to the surface in this method and thats why even our Firm are great for sticking into the chains.
Because of our thicker flate plate at the last 1/2" by the rim( .90-1.25) it is very difficult for any of our wizards, no matter how flexible, to actually lose the shape of roundness from use or flexing. The same goes for the Sabre Blaze and Demon)
If you have a Wizard that you like grip, but feel it is too firm, flex it back and forth to loosen up the polymers and dont worry about changing the stability ( YOU WONT be able to, like you can with the Spirits and illusions)

While I'm on here for a sec, we just finally ran some E and H illusions as well as some E spirits and Speed demons.
We are heading out to test fly some today!

So, the real question is WHEN will I have a Magic in my hands?

Sounds good to me David...anxious to test some myself!

I'll be gald to throw anything and give you my "looking for a putter" opinion. You can send me any disc and I'll give you my opinion. If you need the address, let me know.

You mentioned earlier you wanted something soft but not floppy. The 4x JK Aviars are probably too soft for your taste, but the 3x or the protos might be just the thing. (the 5x might suit your taste too -- i have very limited experience with them though)

check out DiscGolfValues.com (http://www.discgolfvalues.com) where Mark still has these babies for sale at an affordable price. (see my avatar for pic of this disc)

So, the real question is WHEN will I have a Magic in my hands?

JK 5x Aviars are firm, but soft. I've thrown them and they are great putters ... but pretty much like all others. Care to try something new and innovative (note I said innovative ... not original, and yes I've throw Ching, but I didn't like them).

But the best new putter is the Banger GT, IMO.

It must be a bummer to have to chase down discs that were made several years ago or such special runs.
Whoeever feel their putting game is in need of some help should just take advantage of our ( Gateways) missed stamped specials of 5 for $35 or 10 for $50 asking for a mix of flexibilities.

Very few who get the special ever turn back and most reorder for specific weight, flex or color, that should be a good sign of the value in the offer.
314 487 4204 or www.gdstour.com (http://www.gdstour.com)