im somewhat a begginer of this great game... im hooked though... i saw my game getting better and better the first couple months of playing... but lately it seems like its not going anywhere...

my drives were getting better and better at first but now there just gettin more accurate... i need more distance i only drive about 200... ive tried so many discs and only c if anything a 10 yard difference.. how do i get my drives to go farther?

also another big question... i cant even tell u how many rounds ive lost cuz i putted at a hole on a hill and it just missed going in, then laands and rolls to the bottom of the hill.. is it doing this cuz of the way im throwing or is it the disc?

Well how are you throwing the discs...backhand and putting???

progress is not a stright line

yea righty backhand...

First read the articles on http://www.discgolfreview.com/ Then try to find someone who really knows what they're doing to help learn how to throw. If you can't find anyone like that you can still learn by reading the articles on that site and asking questions. Eventually things will start falling into place and you'll reach another plateu. Then start all over until you get to the next plateu and repeat. I try not to rely on new discs for added distance. Granted I'll use them for that, but I sill work on throwing putters and midrange discs farther. Above all, remember to have fun.

Throwing farther and more accurately is a matter of proper form and muscle memory.

It takes time. And I will trade your progress track for what mine was. I could throw over 400ft after 3 months from first picking up a disc. However I was not accurate enough to hit the broad side of a barn.

Study the form of your local pros and the videos from Blake's website. And just be patient. It has taken me almost two years to start saying that I can throw distance shots accurately. But the more time you put into the game the more you can get out of it and the sooner you will get results.

im somewhat a begginer of this great game... im hooked though... i saw my game getting better and better the first couple months of playing... but lately it seems like its not going anywhere...



It happens to everyone. Its just a platue. (sp?) Everyone hits them. You just gotta play threw it and youll find a way to make your game better. Its really frustrating but you just have to play threw them. Once you get threw this one you will improve for a while again and hit another one. Its just part of the process so just keep playing and eventually youll start improving again.


my drives were getting better and better at first but now there just gettin more accurate... i need more distance i only drive about 200... ive tried so many discs and only c if anything a 10 yard difference.. how do i get my drives to go farther?



Forget about throwing far. Distace is a skill that can be learned but not untill you build your proper form and can control all your shots. Once you can control your 200 ft shots then you can worry about throwing further but untill then dont worry about it. I can throw 425 ft golf shots and trust me its not that big of a deal. What kind of discs are you throwing by the way???


also another big question... i cant even tell u how many rounds ive lost cuz i putted at a hole on a hill and it just missed going in, then laands and rolls to the bottom of the hill.. is it doing this cuz of the way im throwing or is it the disc?



1 suggestion I have is to just lay up short of that basket and the putter wont roll. Unless I really need the stroke I wont try and make a putt outside 20 ft on a fast green. I find I save many more strokes by laying up and taking par or bogie then I do if I try to make a long putt on a tricky green. Doesnt matter what disc it is they will all roll if given the opportunity (sp?).

I have just told you the 2 things that took me the longest to learn in this game. Throwing far doesnt mean crap and playing smart will save you a ton of strokes and lots of heartache.

Hope thats helps.

if you aren't breaking 250', then you haven't yet really hit a plateau yet. chances are you are missing something from your throw that is a significant distance contributor, or doing something fundamentally wrong with the throw (such as nose up).

the standard introductory article is:
http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/drivingform.shtml

this article had me throwing 300' after playing 6 weeks and 340' within a few months.

you also have to keep in mind that 10 yards is a BIG jump when you are throwing 200' and going from 200' to 230' is a 15% increase.

however... what i use as rules of thumb:
anything greater than a 10% increase is significant if:
1) it does not result in a decrease in left/right accuracy of more than the increase (e.g. 30' of forward while losing 50' of left/right accuracy is NOT worthwhile)
2) it does not decrease your execution percentage by more than the % increase (e.g. you add 10% D but now you only execute well 3 out of 5 times instead of 4 out of 5 times).

i know a LOT of people that fall victim to this trap.

basically, your order of development should probably follow a progression of:
1) development of base mechanics (grip, pull line, nose down, understanding of hyzer/anhyzer, etc.)
2) footwork/timing.
3) manipulating disc flight, lines, etc.
4) moving up discs (assuming you started with a stable, controllable disc).

I'll have to echo that blake's website is the absolute best, also pair up with some experienced locals. Disc golfers are almost always happy to help out an up and comer.
As far as driving, I reccomend discs that aren't as stable when you are first starting (ie, roadrunner, sidewinder, sabre). Too many beginners see the pros throwing orcs and wraiths and feel they need to throw these. This results in learning bad technique like rolling the wrist over or the discs hyze out early.
A disc is more likely to roll if it lands on an angle when landing. Roll away putts can be cut down on if you learn to throw your putts flat and straight. Also take the slope of the hill into consderation.

Yeah,
These are some great Posts in response to your Thread. The main thing that I learned is that this game and personal improvement is based on gradual subtleties. In otherwards , you will see improvement on a major scale the first few months if you play alot. Then like Pimp said you will hit plateaus. This is normal.

But if you are persistent and do not give up your game will improve over the long term. And it will be a stroke here and there. It usually won't be where you throw +5,+6 or so on your home course and then the next day you hit -5. And never look back. For me at least its like I stay around +1 OR +2 for a few months and then like last week I finally hit Par for the first time. Like I said its very subtle.

But if you keep yourself out there enough on the Course or practice field your body will find a way to get that under Par score your after.

Its simliar to the evolution of giraffes. They originally had short necks but after strecthing for millions of years trying to get fruits off the tall trees there necks evolved naturally longer.

So I am a true believer in this concept of the body subconsciously finding ways to adapt to the desired environment you are looking for if you keep on keeping on. :)

while i agree they should stay away from wraiths and orcs, i generally still steer beginners towards discs that are or were considered stable (to slightly understable), but generally several years older and much slower.

i find discs like the polaris ls, dx cheetah, d cyclone, dx gazelle, d xl, etc. are more apt to teach newer player's "true" flight characteristics while still being controllable.

when you get "too understable" it does not teach them that disc fade can be good and predictable. a result i have seen from starting with some very understable discs is players throwing straight at targets rather than playing to the natural flight characteristics of discs.

once players have those tools, i see nothing wrong with having them choose to throw more or less overstable discs, but i find those early experiences really shape their expectations of discs and i'd rather have those experiences shaped by discs that are more representative of the majority of discs on the market.

I'm actually getting pretty frustrated in my attempts at throwing for distance.

I've been playing since May, have read every article from Blakes site on driving (hundreds of times), watched every video I could, tried every grip, basically have tried everything I could and I'm still stuck at about 250 on a good throw.

My discs used are a 168g DX Cheetah, that's broke in now and (thrown flat) will go right and fade back left at the end. Thrown properly this is probably my furthest flying disc. I use it for for a mid shots as well, but hyzer it and try to elimate the right turn, while still playing for the fade.
I was using a 168g JLS, but I found it unpredictable, so I've been throwing a 168g Q-JLS which is more predictable and overstable.
My other 2 are a 158g & 174g Sidewinder. I cannot get these to turn right at all. With my arm I find these extremely overstable, but I have got some good distance with them.

The only thing I think that is left for me to do is too actually hire someone to tell me WTF I'm doing wrong. My driving is defintely my weakest part of my game...... I throw good upshots & my putting is always improving, but my noodle arm would compare to a player in the Junior Girls division.

I'm truly to the point of frustration :D





(off topic: If Dweller happens to read this...... would you be interested in taking me out & giving me some tutoring? I'd be happy to pay you for your time...)

Just for grins, try gripping your disc where the front edge rests between your forefinger and middle finger. Curl your forefinger on top of the disc and either put your thumb on top of it or pressed against it. It feels a little weird at first but it will help keep the front of your disc down on release if that's what's holding back your distance.

Shoot. I'll give it a go. It does feel weird though :)
Today while I was out just practicing driving, my best throws were with a fan grip.

I guess I don't expect to throw 500' after only playing a few months, but I keep reading articles that say " EVERYONE should be able to throw 350' " and I feel excluded :)
With 350' & a little accuracy you could dominate our local courses.

chuck is talking about the bonapane grip (i have a picture of it on my grip article) and is an easy grip to get a lot of nose down with.

chuck is talking about the bonapane grip (i have a picture of it on my grip article) and is an easy grip to get a lot of nose down with.



Hey Blake so my 200ft drives after playing like 4 months wasn't very good? :confused:

yeh i havent been playing long enough to have reached this yet. however i swim yearround and have experienced this in swimming. when i was trying to get my 50 free under 30 secs it wouldn't happen and finally, after many months of trying i got down to 29.8 and it went from there.

Hey Blake so my 200ft drives after playing like 4 months wasn't very good? :confused:



200' is pretty good for a 10 year old :P

Ok I didn't know if you would catch that. :D:D

:)

something about plateaus that hasn't been mentioned yet...

it is pretty gradual up to the ~350-400' range (depending upon discs, disc technology has taken this from 350' to closer to 400' since 2000). when most players break this last plateau, they generally shatter it and add 50' or more at once when everything finally clicks and that last intangible of throwing (snap) shows up.

for most longer throwers, this happened fairly naturally. a small number of players are able to find it via practice, training, etc. from my experiences and the experiences others have shared with me, many of them at some point made an abrupt jump from 350' to 425' without changing discs.

distance beyond that is more often dictated by the courses people play (most locations don't require more than 425' of D). the super huge throwers (500'+ at their fingertips) are generally freaks :P

i was out playing yesterday and that 200 was an estimate.. i checked and im about 220-250....

im throwing valkyries, archangel, orcs... my main driver is the Arch Angel.. i can throw it pretty far and always pretty straight... i just got an Orc because everyone says how good they are... and i cant throw it for [I'm a potty-mouth!]... its SOO overstable.. i dno if it has to be broken in or what not... so what discs do u think i should be using?

thanks everyone for your advice... i appreciate it..

discs that come to mind for the power/speed you are throwing: dx cheetah, dx gazelle, polaris ls, voyager, d xl, d cyclone, dx raven, s sabre, dx leopard.

the archangel is too unpredictable to build a technique around imo, and the orc will likely be too fast/overstable for you to develop good mechanics with.

i would also focus on a midrange disc and try to push its distance out as far as you can take it.

discs that come to mind: shark, roc, spider, coyote, buzz, mrv, hawk, element x, aurora ms.

Blake: If you had to choose 1 or 2 people from your website videos, who do you think has the best driving form for a beginner to immitate?

it's hard to say since there isn't any one form that i feel makes some of the intangibles obvious.

a couple of players with generic but good form are:
if you are over 5'10": http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/analysis/micahdorius.shtml

if you are under 5'10":
http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/analysis/justinbunnell.shtml

direct imitation can often help unlock some of the conepts of the throw, but is not always necessary. one thing you will notice is that how bunnell and dorius reach back is similar, and that style is found in many pros. it is not really that style of getting the disc back that is important, but the way they start ahead and swing back does prime the shoulder in a good way. this same result could be done without the swing back, but that is one way it can be done.

Funny about the height. I am 5'10".

I will watch the video a couple hundred times and see if I notice them doing anything different from my throw.
I've watched them both & they both seem to put little effort into the throw...... do you know what kind of avg.distance they throw?
I'd say I probably look like I'm trying to throw a brick a 1000 feet...I put a lot of effort into the throw and often leave with a sore right shoulder.

both can hit 450' controlled, but i haven't seen micah throw very much.

i believe justin's longest official throw was probably at this year's USDGC distance prelims at 579'.

Old Tyme, I like your description of your throw. It sounds like you are doing at least one thing wrong. Possibly two. In order to throw long and efficiently, you need to have a strong grip at the rip. The disc should not slip out, but instead rip out. You may or may not be doing this right. Most likely you are putting your effort into the front side of the hit with little pull through. If instead you concentrate your energy into pulling through the hit, you will have a much more efficient and powerful throw. Also, it will force a follow through that will tend to unload your shoulder so it won't get sore. The illusion of "effortlessness" comes from efficient throwers who are very relaxed before the pull through. They aren't doing much before the hit, but from the hit forward they have a very short, concentrated blast of energy that whips the disc down the fairway.

Yeah Justinhas a very POWERFUL throw and he definanty puts a lot of torque into the discs. Basically he isn't tall but stocky. Hey Blake what about the little skinny guys man? :D

Thanks Dave & Blake. You guys are great. We (I) really do apprecriate the help you guys provide.
I'm reading your (Daves) Distance Secrets again and some of it is finally starting to sink in.... now I just have to take this info out on the field & practice.

(also, I checked Innovas website first as I know you have your Daves Tips there..... why don't they include that article on their site?)

Thanks again.

when i was 15 and in the best shape of my life i was 5'7", 230 lbs, could bench 290 lbs, curl 120 lbs, and leg press 1450 lbs. skinny isn't really something i can relate to :P

skinny doesn't really change what the throw should look like, just changes what the body looks like performing the throw :P

i suppose if you were bored enough you could take someone's throw breakdown and use photoshop to stretch them taller :P

when i was 15 and in the best shape of my life i was 5'7", 230 lbs, could bench 290 lbs, curl 120 lbs, and leg press 1450 lbs. skinny isn't really something i can relate to :P

skinny doesn't really change what the throw should look like, just changes what the body looks like performing the throw :P

i suppose if you were bored enough you could take someone's throw breakdown and use photoshop to stretch them taller :P



Are you serious??? 5'7" 230 and you could almost leg press a TON??? Thats freakin insane. I bet if you were like that now you might be able to throw 700 ft :eek:

when i was 15 and in the best shape of my life i was 5'7", 230 lbs, could bench 290 lbs, curl 120 lbs, and leg press 1450 lbs. skinny isn't really something i can relate to :P

skinny doesn't really change what the throw should look like, just changes what the body looks like performing the throw :P

i suppose if you were bored enough you could take someone's throw breakdown and use photoshop to stretch them taller :P



Are you serious??? 5'7" 230 and you could almost leg press a TON??? Thats freakin insane. I bet if you were like that now you might be able to throw 700 ft :eek:



Either that , or play Rugby !!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

WoW. Thanks again. I went out today after posting the above messsage, concentrating on practicing what I read.
Like I said earlier, our courses are pretty short, so I don't have to get more than 250' most of the time, but I was still practicing on the pull through, light steps, and being quickest at the hit. (I was also trying to throw with a bent elbow only as on Daves article).
Anyways, so I finally get to hole 9 which is a longer hole, about 340'. I said to myself "ok this is where we will see if it's sinking in"
I let it rip......whoosh. I throw it about 320 feet, landing just short & in front of the basket. Clearly my longest throw ever on that hole. (I still think I missed the putt, lol)

While I still think I have more to learn, I think the lack of pull through was robbing me of distance & hurting my shoulder.

Off topic: The highlight today was a hard 2nd shot, 140 feet away, 3 large trees about 70' in front of me. I throw my sidewinder very high and to the right (around the trees) & very hyzered, it flys around the trees.....and cuts right towards the basket......CHING! :D
I love this game. Thanks for helping me make it better.

i peaked at the leg press after doing 1750 10 times, but i was sore after doing it so never tried that much again.

one thing i have found is that the more bulk i carry (even if it's all muscle), the less apt i am to throw far due to decreased flexibility and a widening of the shoulders/chest which both elongate the motion needed during the throw and make it more difficult to keep the disc close during the pull.

i've been recruited heavily for rugby a few times :P
they are bummed when they find out i have torn up both of my knees and ankles during football/baseball and can't play contact sports anymore.

How about a good old fashioned tractor pull Blake :D

I just wanted to thank everyone again.
It's been a week now that you guys have helped me & I no longer have the shoulder pain and have improved my distance.
I've been taking a slower x-step & concentrating on being fastest at the hit and pulling/following through. I throw with less & get more.
So me & my shoulder thank you again for all your help.

A great disc golfer once said, "straight is King"

practice throwing straight and keeping the disc as flat as possible. I suggest getting yourself a nice Innova Roc, a Discraft Buzz, or a Gateway Element (keeping all disc manufacturers happy) in a weight range of 170-175grams.
Those are great discs to learn b/c you will learn flight dynamics and the general rules of thumb and not be so punished for minor mistakes in form.
Once you've learned flat and straight, practice tilting the disc to match the throw...work off a plane (ie: a tabletop...straight line A to B) if you need to go left, you'll learn the hyzer. If you need to go right, you'll throw anhyzer. Those discs will emphasize these throws.

Don't worry about BIG D, yet. The best golfers learn the courses within their limitations. If you can't throw far, learn landing zones to best suit each hole. If you can't putt, practice landing within 5 feet of the pin...it's hard to miss a putt from there...you really have to work to miss one at that distance! :D

i peaked at the leg press after doing 1750 10 times, but i was sore after doing it so never tried that much again.

one thing i have found is that the more bulk i carry (even if it's all muscle), the less apt i am to throw far due to decreased flexibility and a widening of the shoulders/chest which both elongate the motion needed during the throw and make it more difficult to keep the disc close during the pull.

i've been recruited heavily for rugby a few times :P
they are bummed when they find out i have torn up both of my knees and ankles during football/baseball and can't play contact sports anymore.



When I got divorced, I put on a few pounds. And, my distance was greatly reduced. I remember being in high school. For football, I would bulk up, but for basketball, I would lose about 40 pounds. I tried to play football at my basketball weight and found I didn't have the power for my style of running.

I guess when I was thinner, I had more arm speed.