To what degree do you believe may be true or not? Personally I think they are pretty close. Usually my worst rounds include lousy putting. Of course those OB's don't help much, as being able to drive accurately is a must. Driving, however, can be over-rated. Some rounds you drive poorly, but hit all of the long putts. Other times you drive well, but don't hit the 25 footers. Whattayathink?

absolutely correct!

no matter what level your game, you're gonna putt far more times than any other shot.

upshots are next, especially on shorter courses where the teeshot isreallyand upshot.

drives are the least thrown shots of all.

as someone once posted on the "how to become a 1000 rated player" thread... to become a 1000 rated player FIRST become a 1000 rated putter!

ahh, nah, i would have to pass on that theory. I have had days where i putted like a champ, but couldnt get to half the holes on my drives. Your rating is the OVERALL ability you have on that day, weekend or year. I played like crap the begninng of the year, and it showed. During the ladder part of the year, i played better, and my rating should go up come decemeber. Now there are days when putting can affect your rating a lot. You miss one put at the end of an event, and now your round rating is 965 instead of 977( I just had this happen last weekend.) So your kinda right, but overall your rating is based on your overall game. :eek:

I agree that it is your overall skill level for that round day week month or year.

Just this past sunday I couldnt miss a putt inside 35 ft the first round. Out of 24 holes (20 of which you can put a drive within 35 ft) I only put 7 drives withing 35ft so I got 7 birdies. My putting was on fire. I did not miss 1 putt inside the circle so I figure my putter rating that round was about a 1025 but my driving was horrid so I assume I shot around a 960 round.

So I would have to say your rating is your total ability all averaged out :D

I would agree with that too. Id say im about a 1025 rated driver, but a 875 rated putter lately, so im shooting about 950 golf. For example, there was this 460+ hole that is quite difficult to park or birdie, i put it about 15 left of the pin and **** near airballed the putt. I would say it is an overall ability.

Nope.

Because I just shot an 844 round. Why?

It was a very wooded course. The tournaments there are always local heavy, and the difference in a good shot and a shot that only goes 20ft is about 1/2 of 1 degree in difference of release angle on the throw.

I was making a good percentage of shots inside of 30ft, nothing out side of my normal range. The next round we changed courses, I missed more devestating putts and shot a 947 rated round.

The round rating has more to do with overall play, a stroke in the fairway rates the same as a stroke on the green.

dont listen to these fellas. while they are correct on the surface, the quickest way to change your rating on the composite of the courses you play is to change your putting ability. yes, ratings represent the entire game. but the game is MOSTLY putting. the rest follows both empirically and intuitively.

The SSA formula is a combination of shots around the green (30) plus throws to the basket (course length / 285) for those around 1000 rating. We have little official data that shows how these skills change for 950, 900 or 800 rated players. The assumption is that the ratings difference would not be caused by only one of these variables changing.

We know that a player with a 950 rating has a round rating standard deviation around 30 which means about 19 out of 20 rounds they will shoot a score within 6 throws either side of a 950 rated round. One would expect that some of this variance comes from their throwing skill variance and some from their putting skill variance.

My expectation would be that for a pool of 950 players, their putting skill would correlate very closely to their rating. In a given round, they will vary in putting skill but on average, their skill will be similar to others at that rating.

We do know that older players and women play better around the green than younger players with the same rating while the younger players have better distance. So, if you're comparing say five 900 rated women with five younger 900 rated guys, they will likely have better skills around the green. But they would likely not have better skills around the green than five women around 950.

Here's some putting data to chew on. Winthrop Gold #17 and Highbridge Gold #16 are both island green holes about the same length at 250'. WG17 has hay bales and the lake to create the 10m putting circle. HG16 has a moat to create the 10m circle. WG 17 has a more restricted flight path to the green than HG16 which is wide open. The data shown in the table for WG17 is the score percentages for Gold players averaging 1000 rating and the HG16 data is for Blue level players who average 942.

<table border="1"><tr><td> Score</td><td>WG17</td><td>HG16
</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>62%</td><td>52%
</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>9%</td><td>21%
</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>21%</td><td>13%
</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>2%</td><td>13%
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>5%</td><td> -
</td></tr><tr><td>7+</td><td>2%</td><td> -
</td></tr><tr><td>Avg.</td><td>2.84</td><td>2.88
</td></tr><tr><td> </tr></td></table>

The Gold players made 87% of their putts for 2s that landed in the circle on the drive [62% / (62% + 9%)]. The Blue players made 71% of theirs [(52% / (52% + 21%)]. Interestingly, both groups were able to land about 7 out of 10 drives in the putting circle although the Gold players had a tougher flight path.

thats some good stuff there chuck! am i mostly correct in interpreting all of that to mean that, yes, putting seems to be the biggest fator in the rating, and therefore the original poster's question can be answered in the affirmative?

I would say that putting is very important. The thing is you could be the best putter in the world but if you cant put it on the green then it really doesnt matter :D

Ive had days where I couldnt miss a putt inside 40 if I wanted to but I also couldnt throw a drive inside 40 to save me life. Those days I end up shooting about the same score I would on a day where I was parking every drive and missing almost every putt.

It when they are both going at the same time that things really happen.

So I would say putting is 65 percent of the game and everything else is 35 percent.

The constant of 30 in the formula for shots "around the green" is not exclusively putts. But let's say that they mostly are. We could probably say that for most of our course with SSAs under maybe 56, there will be more putts than throws. For the currently smaller percentage of courses with SSAs over 56, then putting is less than half the throws.

As a point of reference, the factor for around the green in ball golf is 42 (versus our 30) with the typical number of putts running around 34 or so for scratch golfers. So our courses around 57-60 SSA are the most similar to BG in ratio of putts to throws for a round.

I would say the only real difference in our sports is that that 1 putt in Disc golf would equate to about 2 putts in ball golf. I used to be an avid ball golfer and when I got on the green I expected to 2 putt just about every time no matter where I was on a green and now that I am an avid disc golfer anytime I get on the green I expect to take 1 putt and be done.

Would I be out of line to say that???

You wouldn't be out of line to expect to make one putt, but since you're still rated as a Blue level player, you might only average 7 out of 10... :D

You wouldn't be out of line to expect to make one putt, but since you're still rated as a Blue level player, you might only average 7 out of 10... :D



This is true.

And the three putts I miss would be about as many times as I would three putt out of ten on a ball golf coures being a 7 handicap :eek:

this is completely false! I have the putting game of an 840 rated player(and some of them putt better than me). PIMP can confirm this!

this is completely false! I have the putting game of an 840 rated player(and some of them putt better than me). PIMP can confirm this!



Yes I can and it cant be completely false because your still only rated 937 and thats not a pro by ANY stretch of the imagination :eek: :o:eek:

you must have some kickbutt upshot then! :D

i know i have been busting balls working on my putting game, and it has showed. my rating has gone up 10 already, and if i only look at round since about june, right after i started my putting improvement, its gone up 25 points.

ok, how about this: regardless of the answer to the original question, to become a 1000 rated player, first become a 1000 rated putter. a 1000 rated putter can overcome a 940 rated upshot and driving game, cuz that game gets you to within 40.

you must have some kickbutt upshot then! :D

i know i have been busting balls working on my putting game, and it has showed. my rating has gone up 10 already, and if i only look at round since about june, right after i started my putting improvement, its gone up 25 points.

ok, how about this: regardless of the answer to the original question, to become a 1000 rated player, first become a 1000 rated putter. a 1000 rated putter can overcome a 940 rated upshot and driving game, cuz that game gets you to within 40.

howd i do dat?

My drive is ugly and my putt is pretty. I threw a shot on a straight 300ft hole on Sunday. I yanked it 90 degrees to the right. I threw a sidearm up to the basket from 250 feet away. It skipped and rolled 50 feet away downhill under a cedar tree. I made the 50 foot uphill knee-putt directly into the sun. It was a gimmee. That's how I play.

Lots of good responses. Makes me believe that your player rating = your putting rating possibly when you are a pro player. Ams have a wider variety of problems that lead to low ratings. This isn't a rip on Ams, just an observation.

Aye, Kenny. Playing Am is all about minimizing damage. Playing pro is all about scoring.

I agree to an extent, because on of the best puTTers I kow is Billy Crump, he does not miss that often from inside of 35 feet. But his rating is like 976.

Aye, Kenny. Playing Am is all about minimizing damage. Playing pro is all about scoring.



Close. Playing Am is about winning Plastic.
Playing Pro is about winning Cash.

7 of my last 9 rounds are rated between 1000-1025, the other two being 998 and 979. Each of these rounds I've missed probably 4-6 putts inside the circle PER round. The beginning of the year I had some crazy putting struggles, but consistently shot 970-1010 rated golf. Now if I hit just 3/4 of my putts inside the circle in each of those beginning year events, I'd probably have 6 or 7 wins under my belt. I don't think putting rating=player rating, I think a better putter only increases your player rating.
Look at Schweb, he's a 1018 or whatever rated player, but can't putt worth a hoot (except that big anhyzer putt on hole 11 Sunday morning, nice putt buddy!)
:-D

After a tournament on Saturday where I missed about 12 putts(inside 35ft) the second round I walked up to some of the guys that were on the lead card and asked them how they only beat me by 2 strokes, as they probabily missed around 3 putts the whole round.

I just don't understand how good putters do not shoot 1000 golf every round. :confused: :confused:

It's easy to figure that out. In order to shoot a good round you need to have good putting and good driving. Round two last weekend I couldn't miss a putt and made everything. My driving was horrible. I had 6 OB strokes. My round was rated in the 930's. Sunday morning I couldn't make a putt but drove well, no OB's. My round was in the 980's. Your rating is a combination of every shot.

After a tournament on Saturday where I missed about 12 putts(inside 35ft) the second round I walked up to some of the guys that were on the lead card and asked them how they only beat me by 2 strokes, as they probabily missed around 3 putts the whole round.

I just don't understand how good putters do not shoot 1000 golf every round. :confused: :confused:



Do you ever practice putting??? I mean if you are seriously missing 6 putts inside the circle every round that is TERRIBLE!!! Maybe you should change your putting style or practice alot more or something.

What kind of putt are you using and what kind of putter???

Ever since Ive known you, you have been the worst putter every and thats been for more then a year. You would think you would have practice or something since then :eek:

7 of my last 9 rounds are rated between 1000-1025, the other two being 998 and 979. Each of these rounds I've missed probably 4-6 putts inside the circle PER round. The beginning of the year I had some crazy putting struggles, but consistently shot 970-1010 rated golf. Now if I hit just 3/4 of my putts inside the circle in each of those beginning year events, I'd probably have 6 or 7 wins under my belt. I don't think putting rating=player rating, I think a better putter only increases your player rating.
Look at Schweb, he's a 1018 or whatever rated player, but can't putt worth a hoot (except that big anhyzer putt on hole 11 Sunday morning, nice putt buddy!)
:-D

That is not completely true now MiTTenz.. My puTTing has goTTen quite good over the past month. 2 wins, one second place, 5th at some tourney called the USDGC, and 10th at The CharloTTe Open, which happened to have like 19 players rated over 1000. but who is counting. ;)

That is not completely true now MiTTenz.. My puTTing has goTTen quite good over the past month. 2 wins, one second place, 5th at some tourney called the USDGC, and 10th at The CharloTTe Open, which happened to have like 19 players rated over 1000. but who is counting.



Yeah Schweb. You tell that SonderMullet whats up!!!

I definatly say that if you cant putt your no good, but Putting well doesn't mean playing well, belive me I'm an EXPERT ON THIS SUBJECT!

Schweb, dont' get me wrong, you've been putting your ***** off the last month or so, and it shows in your performance and where you've placed. Outside of this month however, you used to be the first person to admit 'i'm the highest rated player that can't putt.'
Glad to see you got your putt :) It was about the only part of the game you were missing. I'll still take you out in monthlies though.

I think that putting is about 65% of the game and that it needs to be reduced to about 35% driving, 25% approaching. and 40% putting. This can be done my forming more courses which involve two-shot holes. A great example of this is Highbridge. :D

It's cool to watch someone hit anything outside of 40, yes. But, I think the most underappreciated shot of the game is the upshot. Let's take a 580 foot hole for example. Player A drives it 480,Upshot 100, but right, cans the 20' putt. Player B drives it 360, Upshot 180, makes the 40' putt. Player C drives 320, Upshot 255, drops in the 5' putt. Everyone will be talking about the 480' drive, or the great 40' putt. Most likely Player C will go largely unnoticed. These are the players that end up winning it, and everyone says HOW? It seems that the natural progression of a game goes like this. 1.Main focus drives, 2. Main focus putts, 3. Main focus upshots. It isn't until you have all 3 under your belt that you can start to master the game.

That is pretty much true. But...mentally putting and approaching interplay with eachother.

When I spent a bunch of time several years ago getting my confidence up in my 25-30' putts suddenly I was much less tentative on my approaches. I was surprised when that part of my game actually improved more so than my putting. I am also now much more confident going for those "go for" upshots in the range of 50 - 150'

About a year ago, I spent a tournament writing down whether or not I was closer to the basket after the drive (on a 2able hole) or the upshot (on a longer hole) in comparision to 2 other really good players that were on my card.

Here was my results for 1 of the rounds:
I found that roughly 40% of the time I was the closest on the green. Player 1 was closest 33% and player 2 was closest, 27% of the time. Player 1 shot 9 strokes better than me and player 2 shot 5 strokes better than me. I missed 10 more putts than player 1 and 5 more than player 2.

I used the round that had the most extreme results in there to prove the point.

It may be that some players are better at putting than driving and upshots but most are not. I think I am really good at driving and above average at upshots but terrible at putting. Particularly when there is a good amount of wind. I can usually adjust for the wind factor on my drives and upshots. However, I am totally clueless on wind putting. I have tried and tried and I understand the physics pertaining to nose up/down and how that affects the discs reaction to the wind. But when it comes down to it, they don't go in.

The point is, if my putting were half as good as my driving, my rating would go up 25 points.

That is why I agree that putting is the most important factor in disc golf and has the largest impact on one's rating.

About a year ago, I spent a tournament writing down whether or not I was closer to the basket after the drive (on a 2able hole) or the upshot (on a longer hole) in comparision to 2 other really good players that were on my card.

Here was my results for 1 of the rounds:
I found that roughly 40% of the time I was the closest on the green. Player 1 was closest 33% and player 2 was closest, 27% of the time. Player 1 shot 9 strokes better than me and player 2 shot 5 strokes better than me. I missed 10 more putts than player 1 and 5 more than player 2.

I used the round that had the most extreme results in there to prove the point.

It may be that some players are better at putting than driving and upshots but most are not. I think I am really good at driving and above average at upshots but terrible at putting. Particularly when there is a good amount of wind. I can usually adjust for the wind factor on my drives and upshots. However, I am totally clueless on wind putting. I have tried and tried and I understand the physics pertaining to nose up/down and how that affects the discs reaction to the wind. But when it comes down to it, they don't go in.

The point is, if my putting were half as good as my driving, my rating would go up 25 points.

That is why I agree that putting is the most important factor in disc golf and has the largest impact on one's rating.



agreed. putting is more important, putt for dough, drive for show :D
have you tried to putt with a bulldog or a classic roc in windy situations? those two discs work for me, keeping them on line into the wind, or a crosswind. it just takes a little more wrist action.....

If it were really only about putting, then there wouldn't be a reason for full tournaments. All we'd need to tell who the best golfer is would be a putt off. 18 shots from 30' out. Lowest score is the world champion disc golfer. ;)

I think that how important putting is depends on the level at which you're playing. If you need to be a 1000 rated putter to be a 1000 rated player, then all 1000 rated players will be great putters. It will come down to who can spend the fewest strokes getting into putting range. At a lower level it will probably come down to who makes the most putts.

So, to become a 1000 rated golfer you probably do need to be a 1000 rated putter. However, to beat a 1000 rated golfer you'll also need to be better than them at driving and approaching.

If it were really only about putting, then there wouldn't be a reason for full tournaments. All we'd need to tell who the best golfer is would be a putt off. 18 shots from 30' out. Lowest score is the world champion disc golfer. ;)

I think that how important putting is depends on the level at which you're playing. If you need to be a 1000 rated putter to be a 1000 rated player, then all 1000 rated players will be great putters. It will come down to who can spend the fewest strokes getting into putting range. At a lower level it will probably come down to who makes the most putts.

So, to become a 1000 rated golfer you probably do need to be a 1000 rated putter. However, to beat a 1000 rated golfer you'll also need to be better than them at driving and approaching.



Umm, you are wrong. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Even Ken Climo says its 75% driving and 25% putting. Putting is important but if you put yourself in a position to putt more often than the competition you will win. There are NorCal players that are much better putters than I am (Pterodactyl for example) yet our player ratings are pretty close.

I really have no business on this thread but, my best round ever was one in which I don't really think I ever putted. It was silly, shot a nine down. Parked the short holes for two's and the long holes just put my ups under the basket. Nothing heroic at all in the round. Then it started snowing in Corpus Christi Texas. Sorta like He<d.>ll freezing over. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif