How similar is a challenger to a wizard?

They're both round.

Not too much...the Challenger is more similar to an Aviar if anything.

Hold the two (In any plastic) up to each other...the obvious is that Wizards have a convexed wing vs. the Challenger's concaved wing. Also, some runs of Wizards had extra thin flight plates.

Not too much...the Challenger is more similar to an Aviar if anything.

Hold the two (In any plastic) up to each other...the obvious is that Wizards have a convexed wing vs. the Challenger's concaved wing. Also, some runs of Wizards had extra thin flight plates.



I just got 50 of the most recent run of glow wizards for a glowie I'm doing(well, just setting up and arranging) in.....well.... 14 hours. Snuck a quick glow round in like 10 hours ago and these things are amazing. I grabbed a 168 because my soft wizard is 168 and thought it'd be similar. These have the thinner flight plate, and they fade even less than the soft wizard does at the end. I managed to hit a few 30 and 40 foot putts with it and am now hooked. I believe my go to putter will now be glow! The plastic also seems to be grippier, although that could change in time. The only down side was the thing glowed so **** bright that it kept blowing my night vision and I couldn't focus on the basket.

How similar is a challenger to a wizard?



When it comes down to putting, the Wizard, Challenger, and BigBead Aviar are very similar. They are all slow speed overstable putters.

You may notice a difference in those 3 molds off of the teebox, on longer upshots, or anytime they are thrown with some moderate force.......but 125' and in it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. I'd choose the one that feels best with your grip and throwing style.

How similar is a challenger to a wizard?



When it comes down to putting, the Wizard, Challenger, and BigBead Aviar are very similar. They are all slow speed overstable putters.

You may notice a difference in those 3 molds off of the teebox, on longer upshots, or anytime they are thrown with some moderate force.......but 125' and in it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. I'd choose the one that feels best with your grip and throwing style.


Jonn,
I'm pretty sure you have not thrown the Wizard as much as most, if at all.
While I can appreciate your input on the difference in the 3 discs, it seems to be inacurate.
Within 125 is where our disc excells, in fact I'm pretty sure it's stability through a wider range of speeds is what gives it the seperation.

How many 125 foot shots have you thrown with the Wizard?

When I first started throwing the wizard, I found it difficult to adjust.
Small bead and beadless Aviars would flip a bit at 125 whle big beads were much too overstable.
Magnets were the closest discraft at the time and the plastic was never up to par in my opinion.
Firm magnets were a bit overstable, but broke down to become flippy rather easy. I have not thrown the Challengers too much but they seem closer to the Wizard in flight than anything else.

The Wizard was so true it took 30 or so throws to really hone in on it's precise flight pattern.

One of the best attributes to the Wizard is they keep their original flight characteristic the longest of any putter or approach disc made in matted type plastic.
The fact that all 3 of our flexibilities fly pretty much the same is also a big bonus.

I do agree players should choose a disc based on feel and thats why open minded (and bagged) players who get their hands on the Wizard and use it for a round or 2 rarely turn back.

Wizards are great. I still have the first one I got. It's so hard, I keep it by the front door of my house. That way, if anyone ever tries to break in, I can hit them over the head with it, and knock them the [I'm a potty-mouth!] out.

Yeah, wizards are great. :p

Ill never be able to give up my Challengers :D

I have thrown both of these putters a ton. And I can say that there definitely pro's and con's to both

Wizard Pro:
- Great putter for driving with and approaching with. Has great stability to handle a little bit more power on it than the challenger.
- The durability of the s-wizard is the best around. (This is assuming that most people putt with some sort of dx/s/pro-d style plastic.

Wizard Con:
- Doesn't have as much float as the challenger when putting with it, so you have to put a little more on your putts.

Challenger Pro:
- Price of a Pro D challenger is much cheaper than an S-Wizard...unless you do the mis-stamp deal.
- A little bit straighter of a flyer right out of the box.(Not sure if that is a Pro or a Con) ;)

Challenger Con:
- The best Challenger is the CT Challenger, but they are hard to get a hold of.

I am a huge fan of the CT Challengers right now. Sorry Dave, I finally gave up my Wizards...

In my opinion...The Wizard is a better approach disc than Putter. I still use a 10x off the Tee, but have alot of respect for the Wizard, all the same.

The best Challenger is the CT Challenger, but they are hard to get a hold of.



All the Supercolor Challengers at CT Challengers. Plus I think they have 2nd Run CTs on ebay just about every day now :D Best Putter I have ever had and I used to putt with 10X Aviars and Wizards for a while too :D

It's backwards for me; the wizard is the best putter I've ever tried, granted I haven't really used a challenger too much, and it was the ct challenger I was thinking of trying.

However, for tee shots or longer (over 100') shots, I don't get as much distance out of them as I did my aviar or even my putt'r.

I'm happy with my wizards, wish I could find the midnight medium in max weight; I may have to call Gateway.

Are the soft wizards less overstable? or did I just beat mine to hell?

CT Challenger is the best putter there is... Gotta give it up for the man who convinced me to try them...Mr. Mills...my game thanks you.

I thinnk alot of depends on which Wizard your using. IMO, the Proto Wizards are the best ever.

The E Wizard is probably the best off the Tee, as far as distance and durability, but I dont hear alot of people talk about them. At first, I didnt like them, but after a few rounds I learned how to throw it ( The same way as a 10x ) and its a really beefy disc. I never flipped one , even in the wind , and it was nearly indestructable.

i actually carry 3 different putters:

- Avair Putt and Approach (beat to crap for anhysers)
- Elite X Challenger (Big Hyser putts and if i need an approach/ drive to finish left)
- Soft Wizard (Putting and anything dead straight under 300')

I think the challenger and wizard have the same speed and feel, but different low speed fades... The Wizard (no matter how beat) will go as straight as it can... the Challenger will Hyser out of most shots...

Carry them both... but realize that they're different discs...

David,

I've thrown the Wizard plenty of times, from all distances, in many different weather conditions. I've even played an entire round with a Wizard! A lot of players around here use them, so they're not hard to come by for a test toss. :p

I agree with you on their durability and their stability, simply amazing. However, for me , of the molds i listed, within 125', 6 of one half dozen of the other.

John is a very objectional and open minded thinker when it comes to discs. Even the ones that are made by companies other than Discraft. I know for a fact that he has thrown Wizards because he as thrown MINE!

Dave, you should assume less when you post about what you THINK other people know.

Thanks DR. It's not even about that. Hank simply asked for peoples thoughts on the similarities between the two. I gave him mine. I guess David doesn't know how much i like them. :)

Do we all come to the message board after dinner, or what? I know i do. :)

Sorry John,
I just figured you hadnt thrown one much by your assesment and comparison, My bad!

Its good to hear that there are wizards flyng in Texas and that you are a fan of them.

It's backwards for me; the wizard is the best putter I've ever tried, granted I haven't really used a challenger too much, and it was the ct challenger I was thinking of trying.

However, for tee shots or longer (over 100') shots, I don't get as much distance out of them as I did my aviar or even my putt'r.

I'm happy with my wizards, wish I could find the midnight medium in max weight; I may have to call Gateway.

Are the soft wizards less overstable? or did I just beat mine to hell?



Hank,
Im pretty sure we have Medium Black Wizards if thats what your talking about.
As far as I know supersoft Wizards are slightly overstable at slow speeds and of course if you hit a lot of trees with them they will become slightly understable if thrown hard.

I know that its hard for wizards to actually become flippy with out a little work done on the bead.
From just pure use alone, it would take a long time for a wizard to become a turnover disc at slow speeds.

We have plans for the MaGic which will be a beadless Wizard, just not sure when.

And I really value Hero's opinion. Dealing with some people and companies has left a bad taste in my mouth regardless of the quality of their product.

It's backwards for me; the wizard is the best putter I've ever tried, granted I haven't really used a challenger too much, and it was the ct challenger I was thinking of trying.

However, for tee shots or longer (over 100') shots, I don't get as much distance out of them as I did my aviar or even my putt'r.

I'm happy with my wizards, wish I could find the midnight medium in max weight; I may have to call Gateway.

Are the soft wizards less overstable? or did I just beat mine to hell?



Hank,
Im pretty sure we have Medium Black Wizards if thats what your talking about.
As far as I know supersoft Wizards are slightly overstable at slow speeds and of course if you hit a lot of trees with them they will become slightly understable if thrown hard.

I know that its hard for wizards to actually become flippy with out a little work done on the bead.
From just pure use alone, it would take a long time for a wizard to become a turnover disc at slow speeds.

We have plans for the MaGic which will be a beadless Wizard, just not sure when.



I was talking about max weight midnight wizards (medium); sun king doesn't have them in max weight.

I went 15 holes with a medium wizard today (would of gone more but gf was dizzy), and I do not put as good with it as the firm.

I may just order another firm wizard; I actually like the one I have in a creamish color.

Still have never tried a challenger and am curious about them; not sure what I did with the one I had.

Wizards and Challengers are both AWESOME putters. I have used both, and own/thrown loads of them in different weights and hardness. I don't think you can go wrong with either one, or both.
I prefer the softer versions for putting (soft challenger 1st runs, or Soft/Supersoft Wizards. I like them both a lot and can put just as well using one, as with the other. However, I do like the Med Wizards for short drives and short accuracy shots a little better than the Soft Challenger. Never really liked the EliteX Challenger or Crystal Challenger for these shots.
And although this tread is not about Aviars, ALL Aviars are fantastic putters and short drivers too. The newer 5x JK's are sweet, the DX Aviar is my choice for backhand anhyzer upshots, and the KC Pro Aviars are great putters.
I can't really see any reason to pick one brand over another ... yet.

Still have never tried a challenger and am curious about them; not sure what I did with the one I had.



I've got it and you'll never see it alive again unless you put $1,000,000 in a swiss bank account....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

We have plans for the MaGic which will be a beadless Wizard, just not sure when.

[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you can call it The Mage to go with the wizard theme. Then maybe one called the warlock...
I

I love hearing about all these discs Gateway is coming out with. However, the waiting is hienous. Scream, Hybrid, MaGic ... ack! Been hearing about them for a year.
Still can't order a Hybrid from the Gateway site, and there is no information about it unless you want to read the chatter in the forum. The only ones you can buy are from other dealers and they are all protohypes.

Sun King has some, but you're right that they are prototypes. Sometimes those are the best discs though.

I'm confused about the hybrid. Gateway players told me I needed a demon and a blaze to play in the wind. I have the demon; it's a good disc for 30 mph and higher wind. The blaze I couldn't find it at max weight. I understand the hybrid is turn over resistant, but do I still need a blaze, a hybrid now, or both? Or should I stick with my predator?

I'm confused about the hybrid. Gateway players told me I needed a demon and a blaze to play in the wind. I have the demon; it's a good disc for 30 mph and higher wind. The blaze I couldn't find it at max weight. I understand the hybrid is turn over resistant, but do I still need a blaze, a hybrid now, or both? Or should I stick with my predator?



Here is where you need to make a judgment...if you are more of a power player, go with the Blaze...if you don't have as much gas behind your throws, go with the Hybrid.

Bury my mongoose and tell me that you framed Radiohead's Lead Singer.

Quidam, welcome to my ignore list! :p

If I can get the dashboard to assassinate a thalassomaniac, the bull will act as backing vocals to a fire engine and I'll be able to measure the width of a cold cure!

Quidam, welcome to my ignore list! :p



No joke.

We are strongly urging parents to write their state's stalagtite. If a child were to see the irresponsible scenes of pumpkins and how they stick sharp objects into themselves with friends, they may think that they too are able to predict the weather using a pipe!

So you like French Dance troops?



QUIDAM

Quidam: a nameless passer-by, a solitary figure lingering on a street corner, a person rushing past. It could be anyone, anybody. Someone coming, going, living in our anonymous society. A member of the crowd, one of the silent majority. The one who cries out,

Not too much...the Challenger is more similar to an Aviar if anything.

Hold the two (In any plastic) up to each other...the obvious is that Wizards have a convexed wing vs. the Challenger's concaved wing. Also, some runs of Wizards had extra thin flight plates.



Do like I do ... carry one of each! It won't take long to know what's different. Comments about Wizard having little float are correct; my Crystal Z Challenger can't handle power (flips) but is a good putter when you need fade.

Both are 'go to' putters, for different circumstances.

Will do. Just ordered a pro D challenger and another wizard (soft, just can't pass up a black putter or middie).

My blaze and hybrid question: I think you answered me. I don't really have a power arm. Though i can flip a disc if I really want to. Of course, I'm looking for a wind disc, so I may have to try a blaze. I have plenty of fairway drivers; I'm looking for a bad hair day disc.

Will do. Just ordered a pro D challenger and another wizard (soft, just can't pass up a black putter or middie).

My blaze and hybrid question: I think you answered me. I don't really have a power arm. Though i can flip a disc if I really want to. Of course, I'm looking for a wind disc, so I may have to try a blaze. I have plenty of fairway drivers; I'm looking for a bad hair day disc.



I think the Hybrid overlaps both the Sabre a bit and the Blaze a bit. In other words, from my somewhat limited testing, I'm finding that the Hybrid is right inbetween a Blaze and Sabre as far as stability, but it is a bit faster than either. I'm waiting to see what a S Hybrid will be like after getting beat in. Right now I'm getting similar distance with my new S Hybrid and my beat S Blaze, but the Blaze fades more. I'm hoping the Hybrid will get longer and straighter as it gets beat in.

Yeah, I still haven't really broken in my "S" Hybrid to the point where I notice a different flight...anxious to see it though.

9x Aviar (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7190648305&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEBI%3AIT&rd=1)

I don't want it, but someone does

and sorry for the thread-straddle, but it doesnt deserve it's own thread, just 1 post

Thing I really like about the wizard is how high speed stable they are. I can throw a fairly beat up soft wizard about 300 feet, and it holds the line perfectly, doesn't flip at all, and really has minimal fade. I haven't tried the challenger at all yet though.

I agree with Jacks, I was amazed today at how well (straight) they flew on longer shots. Made a couple amazing shots today, one from 80'(actual, not mb) and a couple from 40-50'.
Get 'em moving & watch them aim for the chains.
I'm glad I bought 5 of them..... I only take one with me while playing & now that it's getting a bit worn it just keeps getting better.

After messing with the challenger, I have concluded the following.

I like the wizard better for short putts, but the challenger seems to work better for longer putts.

Given that for long putts, I use a midrange, I think I like the wizard better still. I haven't decided if I like my midnight wizard ( as compared to my max weight firm).

I think that for a 200' upshot, the Challenger is more overstable than a Wizard but I can't tell a difference from 30' and in.

Which one do yall think is more overstable (don't count premium plastic)?

Why wouldn't you count premium? I think the wizard is pretty straght in the S but is resistant to turn. So I guess the challenger in the low line plastic.

Because I am not gonna putt with a premium disc. I think it is silly. I just meant to compare an S Wizard and a D Challenger.

Anyone got any orange CT Challengers for trade? :D

Iknow Discraft has realy worked on their plastic for the challenger, it is much closer to Wizard plastic than anything else.
I feel our range of flexibilities from supersoft to firm gives us the advantage still, but I have never seen any plastic in the aviar , with the grip or feel of the Wizards.
Flight wise the Wizard has a great resistance to tunr and very minimal fade at a wider range of speeds than any other disc made! Again I may be a little bieased but most of this is fact :cool::D