I have been wondering about this and I am not sure about the ruling. Let's say, on a really long hole, your drive lands in the fairway, but a foot behind a 6" high stump. You are still a long way from the hole and need a run up (remember, Am here). On your run up there is nothing obstructing your line. However, on your follow-through you will probably kick the stump and possibly fall. So:
Question: If you run up and make a legal throw and on your follow-through kick the stump and fall, have the rules been violated?

Thanks.

No.

No problem if you kick the stump after you release the disc.

I have been wondering about this and I am not sure about the ruling. Let's say, on a really long hole, your drive lands in the fairway, but a foot behind a 6" high stump. You are still a long way from the hole and need a run up (remember, Am here). On your run up there is nothing obstructing your line. However, on your follow-through you will probably kick the stump and possibly fall. So:
Question: If you run up and make a legal throw and on your follow-through kick the stump and fall, have the rules been violated?

Thanks.




I would say if your disc is a foot behind the stump and you throw from the back of the disc or even a mini and hit the stump then you prolly foot faulted and that would result in a violation of the rules :eek:

I have been wondering about this and I am not sure about the ruling. Let's say, on a really long hole, your drive lands in the fairway, but a foot behind a 6" high stump. You are still a long way from the hole and need a run up (remember, Am here). On your run up there is nothing obstructing your line. However, on your follow-through you will probably kick the stump and possibly fall. So:
Question: If you run up and make a legal throw and on your follow-through kick the stump and fall, have the rules been violated?

Thanks.



Depending on how you fall on the stump, it's YOU that might be the one that was violated. :D

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I hadn't seen it but was almost certain that there was a rule pertaining to "hurting yourself". But I guess not. So, basically, once you release the disc, it doesn't really matter what happens. For instance, if you are putting across a stream, lake, pond, etc., once you release the disc on your follow-through you can land in the stream,lake,pond,etc.?

Not if you are actually putting IE within 10 meters. If you are outside of 10 meters then you may follow thru past your lie, within 10 meters the defined putting distance you must establish balance before you proceed past your lie.

Use the rules to stay further back from the stump. Leave the disc as your lie instead of marking with a mini and take advantage of the 30cm behind your mark.

Not if you are actually putting IE within 10 meters. If you are outside of 10 meters then you may follow thru past your lie, within 10 meters the defined putting distance you must establish balance before you proceed past your lie.



Yeah, I was talking about outside the circle. I know you can't go past your lie inside 10m. I do know that rule. Alot of Ams break it and have falling putts. Some people don't know any better.

Once you release the disc from outside of 10 meters, you are allowed under the rules to follow through and injure yourself however you see fit, and take yourself out of the rest of the tourney. :)

It's nice that you ask, though, as 99.99999% of the players at PDGA tournaments who actually realize that the stump might hurt them and still decide to do the full runup/followThrough will illegally step 2 to 5 feet to the side of their lie and then argue with you and want to get in a fight when you call them on it.

Thanks guys, the reason I asked it that this came up during a tournament I was in and 2 pro's got in an argument about it.
Here's the situation:
Player A throws his drive and hits a 6"x6" post that sticks up about 12" marking the parking lot in front of OB. His drive was in bounds but up against the post. So He uses his disc as his marker and throws. After he releases the disc his non-plant leg swings around on the followthrough causing him to fall up and to the right. Player B is quietly waiting for us to throw, as an alternate teepad was close to where we were and they were being polite and waiting for us before they tee'd off. Player B told Player A that what he did violated the legal stance rule and that you can't step into OB on the followthrough. Player A disputed this because he said he had already released the disc and since he was about 300ft. out, there was no rule dictating what happens to your body once the disc is legally released appropriately behind the lie. Since neither I, nor the advanced player in our group had heard of a rule dictating what happens to your body after you throw, outside 10m, we concurred with player A and no penalty or warning was issued. Player B brought this to the TD, but I never heard the final ruling on the situation.
So I assume we were right.

Thanks guys, the reason I asked it that this came up during a tournament I was in and 2 pro's got in an argument about it.
Here's the situation:
Player A throws his drive and hits a 6"x6" post that sticks up about 12" marking the parking lot in front of OB. His drive was in bounds but up against the post. So He uses his disc as his marker and throws. After he releases the disc his non-plant leg swings around on the followthrough causing him to fall up and to the right. Player B is quietly waiting for us to throw, as an alternate teepad was close to where we were and they were being polite and waiting for us before they tee'd off. Player B told Player A that what he did violated the legal stance rule and that you can't step into OB on the followthrough.



Sounds like someone could have really used the free 1m from out of bounds rule (803.02C)

This thread reminds me of a time I was playing a casual round. At our courses we have these concrete cups on stakes for lack of better term. I was attempting a forehand roller. and my the toe of my left foot went on the top of the cup (so like this |\) I was told it was still legal, because I hadn't technically crossed the plane. However I could barely finish the rest of the round, and 3 months later, I still have trouble putting pressure on it sometimes.

Sounds like someone could have really used the free 1m from out of bounds rule (803.02C)


The posts, as claimed in the players meeting, were basically 3ft from the parking lot, so he couldn't take relief. I did forget to mention that. We talked about that too in the discussion between Player A and Player B.

Here is a skematic of what happened.
http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/2120/untitled4qp.th.jpg (http://img348.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled4qp.jpg)

Nice, but a Line-Of-Play [showing direction], or a Target would be helpful! :p

Nice, but a Line-Of-Play [showing direction], or a Target would be helpful! :p


Ok, here
http://img333.imageshack.us/img333/6140/untitled14uc.th.jpg (http://img333.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled14uc.jpg)

I like the "guy after throw" graphic. :)

Looks just like a, "where the police found the body," diagram from any low-budget Pontiac murder trial.

Colonel Mustard, in the Library, with the Roc!

Did I get it right?

More like:

Nick Kight, in the parking lot, with disc that was stuck in a tree

I would agree with you and the rest of the group.

He did make a legal throw.

While you cannot throw from out of bounds (have any supporting point of your body out of bounds when the disc was released). There was no violation.

On his follow through, since follow through is defined by what happens after you release the disc, he is allowed to do what ever he wants and is able to step out of bounds. And the same goes for being able to do a run up from OB. You can start your run up from OB only if when you release the disc all supporting points of your body are inbounds.

To call a violation on this player would precedent having to call people when they pass through an OB area on the way to or from their lie. Because where is the definition from when you truly finish your throw? By all current definitions, the throw ends once the disc is released by the player, if the lie is outside 10m of the basket. If it was inside 10m, the throw is complete when the disc comes to rest (hence the falling putt rule).

So if he wanted, he could have done cartwheels into OB after he released the disc. The only stance rule in this situation would be if he released the disc after stepping over his lie.

Based on the line of play to the pin, he could have moved the marker right next to the parking lot and not had the post in front of his lie if that would have been better. The rule for 1m relief from OB means the marker can be placed anywhere from 0"~39" from OB.

Based on the line of play to the pin, he could have moved the marker right next to the parking lot and not had the post in front of his lie if that would have been better. The rule for 1m relief from OB means the marker can be placed anywhere from 0"~39" from OB.

It looks like he's ~5ft from the O/B (the parking lot). How can you move _closer_ to the o/b line when you are not within 1m?

It looks like he's ~5ft from the O/B (the parking lot). How can you move _closer_ to the o/b line when you are not within 1m?



No. The disc would have to have been within 1m to start with.

This guy asks a question.

Chuck replies with "no" and answers the question.


There are now 24 replies (this is the 25th).

I felt that my elaboration on the rules allowing you to injure yourself added value to the thread. :)

If it was inside 10m, the throw is complete when the disc comes to rest (hence the falling putt rule).

Um ... pardon my ignorance, Parkentwoputt, but which rule specifies that a throw made from beyond 10m of the target ends when the disc is released, but a throw from within 10m is not complete until the disc comes to rest?

I'm not sure which rule off hand, but it has to do with the falling putt thing. Which I personally don't care for..I say it should be the same as a tee shot, but that's a different topic.

If it was inside 10m, the throw is complete when the disc comes to rest (hence the falling putt rule).

Um ... pardon my ignorance, Parkentwoputt, but which rule specifies that a throw made from beyond 10m of the target ends when the disc is released, but a throw from within 10m is not complete until the disc comes to rest?



There is no rule that specifically states the above. It is an interpetation of the rules. If you were putting and the throw ended once released, then it would not matter if you stepped over your lie (as long as you released behind the lie). But as far as tee shots and fairway shots, you are allowed to follow through past the lie after release.

The rules basically say that it matters what happens with your body after the throw, when putting but not other shots. Once your putted disc stops moving, you are free to move past the lie but not until then.

At least this is the interpretation that I get from the rules. Any differing opinions?

The rules basically say that...once your putted disc stops moving, you are free to move past the lie but not until then.


Can you please quote the rule that says that?

The rules basically say that it matters what happens with your body after the throw, when putting but not other shots. Once your putted disc stops moving, you are free to move past the lie but not until then.

At least this is the interpretation that I get from the rules. Any differing opinions?

I suggest you go to the Rules Q & A page and read the Rules Committee discussion under "Maintaining balance while putting."

As the RC notes, you can have a grand mal seizure while putting as long as you don't make contact closer to the hole than the lie before demonstrating full control of balance. Whether or not the thrown disc is at rest is irrelevant to determining whether or not a falling putt has occurred; the ONLY thing that matters is that you demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole. As long as you don't make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the mini marker disc before demonstrating full control of balance, you can release the putt and fall sideways while the disc is in the air; you can face away from the hole and snap the putt between your legs like football center and fall forward onto your face while the disc is still in motion; you can make an MTA (boomerang-style) throw with a 95g Fastback, run to the basket, climb on top and be doing a tap dance on it when the disc crashes in, provided that you demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

Now that would qualify for funniest thing seen on the course.

That is the operative part of the rule. You must demonstrate balance. After that you can advance if you like. There is no reference to the disc coming to rest.

...you can make an MTA (boomerang-style) throw with a 95g Fastback, run to the basket, climb on top and be doing a tap dance on it when the disc crashes in, provided that you demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.


We should start having between round contests with this throw. It could have several components for score <ul type="square"> The shot must end up in the basket to score the time the disc is aloft is one component of score the skills demonstrated in the tap dance are the other component of the score [/list]

The rules basically say that it matters what happens with your body after the throw, when putting but not other shots. Once your putted disc stops moving, you are free to move past the lie but not until then.

At least this is the interpretation that I get from the rules. Any differing opinions?

I suggest you go to the Rules Q & A page and read the Rules Committee discussion under "Maintaining balance while putting."

As the RC notes, <font color="red"> you can have a grand mal seizure while putting as long as you don't make contact closer to the hole than the lie before demonstrating full control of balance. </font> Whether or not the thrown disc is at rest is irrelevant to determining whether or not a falling putt has occurred; the ONLY thing that matters is that you demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole. As long as you don't make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the mini marker disc before demonstrating full control of balance, you can release the putt and fall sideways while the disc is in the air; you can face away from the hole and snap the putt between your legs like football center and fall forward onto your face while the disc is still in motion; <font color="red">you can make an MTA (boomerang-style) throw with a 95g Fastback, run to the basket, climb on top and be doing a tap dance on it when the disc crashes in, provided that you demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole. </font>



Felix wins the make me laugh award of the week... too funny!

ive done so many jump putts in my day where ive landed on sticks that are stickin up and jabbin my leg.. but its all worth it when you make the putt

...you can make an MTA (boomerang-style) throw with a 95g Fastback, run to the basket, climb on top and be doing a tap dance on it when the disc crashes in, provided that you demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

Is a 95g Fastback now PDGA approved?????????

I liked Twoputt's Opinion of the rule. It would be an easier way to explain to newer players the difference between drives and putts...
But I guess it isn't totally correct, although I very rarely start moving with a putt before the disc stops.

-Scott Lewis