I'm just curious. People talk so much about CE valks, Eagles firebirds etc and spend plenty for used ones. I've thrown several of these and have come to the conclusion that they aren't any better fliers than today's champion discs. My CE valk was getting easily beat by a newer JK champ version. Any other observations? Why the hype?

Why the hype?



supply and demand, mystique, cool hotstamp.
main attraction: they don't make them anymore.

while their durability is awesome, my beat CE valk is a lot less stable than it was out of the box...

Now the SB's -- those things are the shizzle. (disclaimer: i have never thrown or touched one, but i hear good things about them and they are hard to get :D)

Rob -

I'll let you look at my new blue Orc this week, but that's it.

It's SAWEET!!!!

Played Banklick on Saturday, first throw, first hole, new SB Orc:

Very Grippy - I actually threw it off the road, it skipped and went all the way down past the first basket.

They are very nice in the hand - good feel. I think it's really simple to describe. The best of Pro, with grip, feel, and glide, and the best of champion with durabillity, (over)stability, and resiliancy.

The second run won't last long - the secret is now OUT.

I'm glad I have a nail-polish red first run, first stamp 174g SB Orc sitting in a bag on top of the fridge, #271, I think.

Someone will really want that in a year or two, I bet.

I'm just curious. People talk so much about CE valks, Eagles firebirds etc and spend plenty for used ones. I've thrown several of these and have come to the conclusion that they aren't any better fliers than today's champion discs. My CE valk was getting easily beat by a newer JK champ version. Any other observations? Why the hype?



I think it's a convergence of two technology leaps in disc golf. The first was the plastic. This stuff was durable and grippy and never available to the masses before. Imagine throwing dx your whole life and just being used to the fact that a disc would get beat after hitting a few trees. Now you have this new stuff that can last a couple of years.

The second leap was the disc mold. Valkyrie, teebird, eagle & leopard were all relatively new designs at the time of CE. IMO the valkyrie changed what people thought a "distance driver" should be. I was about to quit DG when CE came out, and after I picked up a CE leopard and valkyrie (both of which I still keep in my bag) it totally changed my game.

Nowadays, champion, SB, elite-Z are probably just as good, but they were not a huge step forward like the CE plastic. It's like CE is RUN-DMC and Champion plastic is Kanye West. CE was first and influential, but others that came after are just as good but not as revered because it wasn't such a huge step forward.

I'm not sure what the difference between champion and ce is; I know it stands for champion edition. I figure they have to do with the stamps.

Also, I believe z plastic came out before candy plastic as I was throwing a z xs before anyone had ever seen that type of plastic (in this area). I was excited when champion plastic came out, but it doesn't seem to hold up (for me at least before I get flamed) as well as z though it is much grippier.

Interesting comments when the biggest complaints I heard about CE when it came out was that it was too slick, and couldn't be gripped if there was any moisture on the ground or falling from the sky.

Also, I believe z plastic came out before candy plastic...


Wrong.

First candy disc: The Chameleon T-Bird at the FlyMart at PAW2000. 20 pure candy totally clear T-birds.

Next came the Star-Stamped Gazelles and Valkyries that were introduced at the 2000 SoCal Championships. The first Z discs came out about that same time, too.

Anybody remember what disc it was that was first for the Z?

Z-XS?

Ghost stamped Cyclone, in colbalt blue?

I remember the first time I saw a CE disc... A guy was selling them out of his trunk at the course and took one out of his bag and slammed it into the ground and handed it to me... it wasnt taco'd. I knew I had to have one.

I bought a 175 Eagle...

I lost it, but that was the disc that got me over the hump from beginner to official disc golfer.

It was great to have one disc that I would know what it would do everytime even if I smashed a tree the throw before.

I hated CE when it came out. All I threw was Special Edition TLs, and bought a CE TL. I sold it the next day for 5$. It was way to beefy. It was like throwing a Speed Demon for the first time. I think my first shot went like 250'. Now its almost all I throw. Just a hint for yall though, the CFR GLO plastic ages almost identical to old CE.

I agree about the glow chase.
I have a CE Glow TB(weird to find a TB not a TL) and it's absolute Money.. Still glows it's butt off and is in perfect shape. I hit a Square metal Pole from 50feet out on a full power drive and I can't find the spot where it hit.

Flat top and Fast.. Glow CFR rocks.

-Scott Lewis

p.s. They need a CFR Glow Flat top VALK like CE

Lost a 158 champion eaglet in a lake this weekend (hey it was a tough shot!) and pulled out an old 2nd run ce 166 eagle to replace it - and it was awesome!!!! The 1st and 2nd runs have the flat lip (on the underside rim) and really fly.

Why'd innova put the lip on the later runs?

I find it surprising that the candy plastic was released first. I remember buying an xl and was given an xs. I also remember many Innova players throwing discraft for a while until they got innova candy plastic. I don't know which discraft z disc was released first; I would guess xl or xs, or rather, they were widely available.

I think I remember the first candy disc being a valkerie because Innova players throwing discraft switched back and all had valkeries.

Of course, availability plays a large part in these factors. I didn't get smart and start ordering from the Internet until much later; until then I was buying discs on trips to Austin.

Scott: Couldnt have said it better. I thorw an '04 Glo TB, and after the first round I played with it, I took out my CE T. They felt identical, and since beating it in, there is no difference.

The Eagles you have or had are in the less stable mold (L). The beaded version is the Eagle. although I think its different from the original Eagle.

Hank, I think it was the XS. That was the first Discraft Candy I saw, and it came in either Ice or Blue. The first true CE disc I saw was the Valk. It was in 150g weights and was given to some locals by Des Redding. They were red, see through, like the Proto Star Stamped Gazelles. There was no stamp or markings on them either. I have a friend that still has one. The first CEs our Club got were TLs and Eagles. Maybe Leopards too, but I dont remember.

Yeah, my xs was blue. If the valk was released first, it must of not been available to us right away. Just think, I may have remained an Innova fan had I found the candy valks. Prior to elite plastic I was throwing gazelles and stingrays (and 1 cyclone). Or maybe the valks sold out quick.

Still the xs is a great disc, but it was actually a gift.

CE plastic was released first though it was more expensive and hard to find in the begining. CE plastic was revloutionary but they ran out the plastic and had to swtich to thier champion line witch more resembles the z plastic. And I do believe that the first z disc wasthe xs and xpress both came out at the same time they were the new releases. CE plastic is the most durable and if they could have contiuned to make it with the new plastic like orcs, vikings, beasts than they would still havethe most popular thing out, but the playing field is a little more even these days even though innova is better.

It wasn't revolutionary, just pure urethane....and they got alot of bubbles due to a reaction with moisture and the cooling urethane.
Correct me if i am wrong.

Also, I believe z plastic came out before candy plastic...


Wrong.

First candy disc: The Chameleon T-Bird at the FlyMart at PAW2000. 20 pure candy totally clear T-birds.

Next came the Star-Stamped Gazelles and Valkyries that were introduced at the 2000 SoCal Championships. The first Z discs came out about that same time, too.

Anybody remember what disc it was that was first for the Z?



Z-XS blue was the first Discraft candy disc.
Todd White bought it at the Chills at The mills disc auction with his ace money. It was a hand made disc. It is a zipper XS.

Z-XS blue was the first Discraft candy disc.
Todd White bought it at the Chills at The mills disc auction with his ace money. It was a hand made disc. It is a zipper XS.



What color blue? I have a dark blue one from the 2001 Am Worlds with a SWEET stamp.

Yeah, my xs was blue. If the valk was released first, it must of not been available to us right away. Just think, I may have remained an Innova fan had I found the candy valks. Prior to elite plastic I was throwing gazelles and stingrays (and 1 cyclone). Or maybe the valks sold out quick.

Still the xs is a great disc, but it was actually a gift.




No, I dont think the Valks sold out. They were Protos. She didnt have alot of them, but sold some because they were all light. Right now they would probably be very valuable , as they didnt even have a stamp on them. ( If I remember correctly. ) I dont think they were released at the same time as intial CE line.