Like a hole in one on a long par 4 hole ??.

Or a two on a Par 5 if there is any such holes on Pro circuit ??

You must be bored a lot.

:D

I'd say everything was Par 3 for the pros.
I was just watching that 03 Brent Hambrick Memorial Open and there was a 710 foot hole. Par 3.

Bzzzzt!

Wrong answer.

:

I'd say everything was Par 3 for the pros.




Definately not true.

Today the course design trend is to make courses much tougher incorporating more par 4's and even an occasional par 5.
Lake Nockamixon has an ssa around 64. Paw paw's courses are around 62-63. Winthrop's way up there in the high 60's I believe.


I've never heard of a double eagle.

One of the most impressive scores I know about is Brinster's two on Tinicum's 700'+ hole 18 which plays around par 4.3. Incidently he had two deuces on 600'+ holes in the same round at the Eric Yetter a couple weeks ago.

Bzzzzt!

Wrong answer.



What do I win? :D

Thanks Steve. I learn something new everyday here. If a 710 foot hole was a 3 then a 4 (or 5) would have to be truly difficult.
A 710 foot should be at least a 5 for rooks like me. It'd take me 3 good drives just to get near the basket :D

OT,
The length of the hole is only one factor of diificulty. A 710 foot hole that is open with little or no obstacles may play significantly easier than a hole 450' that is tightly wooded and has OB to contend with.

At Paw Paw the hole that has the highest scores is circles (woodshed#4). There have been 12's and 13's carded on that hole even thugh it's actually shorter than most holes on the course.

There is a 900'+ hole at a course 20 mins from my house. Im pretty sure they play it as a 3. if im lucky, i can park it on my 3rd drive. usually dosent happen though because of the OB on the right side. wouldnt matter for most people, but i throw RHFH, so if the wind picks up the disc, it fades over the treeline... :o

meanwhile, my local course, Basil Marella has whats called one of the most difficult holes under 300'. tight, tight fairway, 20' infront of the tee the trees are no more than 4' apart, and its a sharp right turn. if you throw RHFH like me you can use a really overstable driver like a firebird to make the turn, but 9/10 times your gonna hit a tree somewhere before the basket. i wouldnt even know where to start if i thew backhand. a low ceiling prevents a good anny, and that probably wouldnt work anyway since its an irregular turn, and is sharper mear the middle.

hobson mills in Mi. and staford lake in Ca. both have a 1000+ hole

There is a 900'+ hole at a course 20 mins from my house. Im pretty sure they play it as a 3.


Not to revive a very tired topic, but...

Holes aren't played "as a 3" or "as a 4". We compete for total overall score. The lowest score wins. The "par" on a hole is supposed to be a rough estimate of the SSA (rounded up) on that hole. The lowest acceptable par on a hole should be 3, where as the highest should be 5... but this is more of a factor when designing a course than when playing one. As for that "toughest under 300" hole... I hate to sound negative, but that sounds like a very poorly designed hole. It sounds like something along the lines of using a putt-putt windmill on a PGA championship course. It might make it more difficult, but that isn't always the point :)

To the original poster, I have personally seen a 2 on a hole marked as a par 5 (in PDGA competition). I have also seen an ace on a hole marked as a par 4. In the first case, the par 5 is really more of a 4.5, but a 2 there is still very impressive. The hole is about 550', with a relatively tight fairway all the way down, and a dogleg left at about 420'. For those familiar, I am talking about hole 16 at Cameron East in Waco, TX. To score a 2 here, a very fortunate skip at the end of a long drive or a very accurate (and long) putt... sometimes both... are required. It has only happened once that I know of, and I doubt more then two or three times otherwise. I'd say that a 2 there definitely enters eagle territory, but double-eagle might be a stretch. The second example I used is a hole marked as par 4... but which is realistically a par 3. Pros are disappointed with a 3, and ams would be very upset with a 4. This hole has many obstacles, including a creek along the right side of the fairway, many trees, OB street at about 320' straight, a fairly sharp right turn to the basket, and a casual ditch 30' short of the basket. There is certainly a level of difficulty to this hole, but that does not make it a par 4.... just a good par 3.

My point is this: par is relative. it is marked by the course designer simply for the purpose of communicating level of difficulty. Disc golf course design is not held to the standards for par that a ball golf course is. If a 2 is carded on a supposed par 5 DG hole, chances are that the hole is more like a 4.5 par. Doesn't mean it wasn't a great score though :)

Wow. Good points Baldguy.
You can beat the course and shoot "under par" , but if the guy next to you beats your score than your course score is pretty much useless.

DISC -

I've seen many posts of yours comparing ball golf and disc golf, as does this one. I used to the do the same, afterall, I was on my high school ball golf team.

I've very quickly realized that golf and disc golf are two totally different sports and they will always be. Please stop trying to compare the two.

Let's go back to second grade and open our arithmetic books children.

An eagle is a -2. A double eagle would be -4.

I think the original poster was thinking of a -3 and calling it a double eagle. BZZZZZZZZZZZT!

A -3 in ball golf is called an albatross. It's extremely rare, much more rare than an ace. A real double eagle (which is a -4) is impossible and i doubt it has ever happened in 500 years of ball golf. You have to ace a par 5 hole. I don't know if ball golf has par 6 holes but if it did you need a deuce to get double eagle, which only superman can do. A par 6 hole would be like 1200 yards long. The only way to deuce that would be to bounce it on a moving golf cart and then it drives right past the hole and then it rolls off right near the hole. But this isn't Caddy Shack.

yes, disc golf has absolutely nothing in common with golf. please stop comparing them, we certainly don't want any such comparisons to cause similarities to creep up. in fact, i strongly urge everyone to eliminate anything that might even have the appearance of a similarity like standardized catching targets, rule books, and tournaments. hey, even better we could eliminate any sort of specialized equipment and play with pickle bucket lids. and, of course we should eliminate the word "golf" from our sport name. anyone have an idea for a better name that better reflects the true nature of our game that has nothing to do with golf?

folf

nice work, annehyzer . . . maybe the times should have said our sport was created between beers and bong hits, instead of classes.

I wasn't doing drugs when I posted it, but I was having sex and listening to rock and roll and when I typed it.

that must take a lot of coordination . . . i've thought about discing while having sex. i know i'm in trouble when she says afterwards, "my name's not hyzer". at that point, i know the relationship is only good for another 6-9 months.

Let's go back to second grade and open our arithmetic books children.

" An eagle is a -2. A double eagle would be -4.

I think the original poster was thinking of a -3 and calling it a double eagle. BZZZZZZZZZZZT! "




Ding ding ding.............. we have a winner folks. Blondes do live up to their image of not being "the most sharpest tool in the shed ".

Ha annie , maybe if you would concentrate less on using your ankles as ear ring decoration and more on using a little common sense you would realize Double Eagle is -3 in Golf !!!

Its been accomplished by numerous stick golfers including Gene Sarazen who hit a two on Par 5 at Augusta Masters. It was a double eagle.

Oh and by the way your hips and upper thighs are still way to small for me. Even for a youngster. Your legs look kind of deformed. Like a chicken whose run one to many times across the road :o

�Albatross�

Glossary

Definition: Another term for a double eagle, or 3-under par on any one hole. Albatross is used most commonly in the U.K.

Anne doesn't look much like a Mens pro grandmaster division player.

Let's go back to second grade and open our arithmetic books children.

An eagle is a -2. A double eagle would be -4.

I think the original poster was thinking of a -3 and calling it a double eagle. BZZZZZZZZZZZT!

A -3 in ball golf is called an albatross. It's extremely rare, much more rare than an ace. A real double eagle (which is a -4) is basically impossible and i doubt is has ever happened in 500 years of ball golf. You have to ace a par 5 hole. I don't know if ball golf has par 6 holes but if it did you need a deuce to get double eagle, which only superman can do. A par 6 hole would be like 1200 yards long. The only way to deuce that would be to bounce it on a moving golf cart and then it drives right past the hole and then it rolls off right near the hole. But this isn't Caddy Shack.





[/QUOTE]BZZZZZZ! Wrong answer.

"Double eagle" (aka, albatross, dodo) is defined as scoring 3 under par on a hole by, among others:

the USGA (http://www.usga.org/questions/faqs/usga_history.html);

the PGA (http://pga.org/play/glossary.cfm);

PGAProfessional.com (http://www.pgaprofessional.com/glossary/d.html);

golf.com (http://www.golf.com/apps/tools/glossary.asp);

golfeurope.com (http://www.golfeurope.com/almanac/golf_terms/lex_d.htm);

learnaboutgolf.com (http://www.learnaboutgolf.com/educational/terms.html);

and Golf Digest, which published an article about double eagles entitled The Rarest Bird (http://www.golfdigest.com/majors/masters/index.ssf?/majors/masters/gw20040402albatross.html) in the April, 2004 issue.

And, OBTW: according to the article, there have been two certified instances when a player has carded a four under par on a single hole: the first an ace on a par 5 480-yard dogleg right; the second, an ace on a par 5 496-yard dogleg (presumably a dogleg left, since he hit a draw).

You must be bored a lot.



You're starting to obsess over DISCnDISCiple. I agree that he creates a lot of really stupid threads, but it might be better to just put him on Ignore.

I agree with Lung.

As for that "toughest under 300" hole... I hate to sound negative, but that sounds like a very poorly designed hole. It sounds like something along the lines of using a putt-putt windmill on a PGA championship course. It might make it more difficult, but that isn't always the point :)



I dont think its like that at all. its far from impossible to deuce, and it may even be possible to ace, although ive never seen it. i have parked it before though. the purpose of the whole it to be short, yet still a fair 3. i hate open holes, no matter how long. thats why i never go to the course with the 900'+ hole, its in a field. i like the trees in the way and sharp turns through obstacles. it makes it more challenging, which i think does make it more fun and enjoyable.

Lung is an idiiot. Put him on ignore.

At Idlewild, a deuce on hole 5, 15, or 18 would be a double eagle. I suppose you could say the same for 13 and 14 (longs). It hasn't been done even in casual competition yet though on any of those holes. A deuce on hole 6 would also be a double eagle -- but that will never happen. I saw it 3'ed once by course designer Fred Salaz and that was amazing, and it wasn't a putt :D

The KY States tournament is coming up in October and it's extremely unlikely any of these holes will be double eagled even during the doubles event on October 8th, even with Justin Bunnell and Chris Heeren teaming up...

An intermediate player hit a 2 at Hornet's Nest #12. This is a par 5. play it 20 times and you may get a 3 once. you'll get 8 4s, 7 5s and 3 6s and a 7.

meanwhile, my local course, Basil Marella has whats called one of the most difficult holes under 300'. tight, tight fairway, 20' infront of the tee the trees are no more than 4' apart, and its a sharp right turn. if you throw RHFH like me you can use a really overstable driver like a firebird to make the turn, but 9/10 times your gonna hit a tree somewhere before the basket. i wouldnt even know where to start if i thew backhand. a low ceiling prevents a good anny, and that probably wouldnt work anyway since its an irregular turn, and is sharper mear the middle.



What hole is this? #14? A hole that is considered a duece hole by the pros, and definitely not a bogieable hole? Or #2, a hole that I birdie probably 70% of the time, and hit the gap on 85% of the time. I've also aced it by throwing an extremely high anhyzer. I think I birdie #2 more than any hole but #12.

And FYI every hole at that course but #8 has been birdied, and #8 has been birdied during doubles.

Don't make my home course sound dumb and crappy. If you don't know what you're talking about then please don't post.

An intermediate player hit a 2 at Hornet's Nest #12. This is a par 5. play it 20 times and you may get a 3 once. you'll get 8 4s, 7 5s and 3 6s and a 7.



Finally we have an example of a double eagle!

Don't make my home course sound dumb and crappy. If you don't know what you're talking about then please don't post.



dude, first off, i was quoting the **** website when i said 'hardest hole under 300' and i didnt say it was impossible, i said that if you dont do it just right you will cut the turn to short. ive personaly never seen a RHBH player park it before. if you can putt, then sure its not that hard, because you dont have to make the whole turn. just throw 3/4 of the way and then make the 20-30 ' putt. but that wasnt my point. u dont have to act like an [I'm a potty-mouth!] because ur a pro and im not. and when im quoting our own **** website you dont have to say i dont know what im talking about. im not retarded.

" You're starting to obsess over DISCnDISCiple. I agree that he creates a lot of really stupid threads, but it might be better to just put him on Ignore. "



Wow !!! Thats kind of ironic isn't it. This Lung character was a top volunteer assistant in running the World Championships in PA and purports to be such a beacon for this Sport. And then he goes around telling people to put others on Ignore and talks about how other people's threads are so stupid. Wow Lagrassass thats really
being such a positive influence to this Sport !! Keep up the great work. ;)

And just wondering LaGrassass how is asking about whether there has been Double Eagles on record and Pros without aces stupid threads??

Of all the people I would think playing and knowing a tough long course like Nocamixon you would appreciate and be curious about the actual stats of players getting Double Eagles !!!

I suggest you reevaluate the facade you put on about being such a true beacon to this sport . Its pretty obvious your true colors are showing with what you wrote above, Lagrassass !!

By the way you are now on ignore :p

Yours truly,
Tommy Coles

Let's get one thing straight: I have never, ever, claimed to be "a beacon of the sport." Far from it! :D

Look, I'm just trying to get Kid Roc from obsessing with your threads. At this point, maybe we should ALL put each other on Ignore! :D:p

i can feel the love

Uh.....kids.....Ahem.....

.........can we play nice........ don't make me come in there!!!




Who needs kids of their own when you have the pdga message board?

I put myself on ignore

anne hyzer you are a complete ****** bag.

I'm guessing vinegar and water

I got a duce on #6 at Granite gride in Highbridge Hills during Mid-Nationals, don't know what par Chuck would consider that hole, but it sure plays like a par 5. From the tee it's a RH anhyzer for about 300' then a RH hyzer down hill for another 325' -350' with a lake behind the pin, and don't forget the tight fairway and huge trees to navagate around!!! :cool:

Chariot (which rhymes with idiiot) I don't know if anybody told you how to talk to a woman, but from your ape-like approach to me I can understand why the closest your pecker ever got to a woman was 12 inches under your monitor (and 12 inches above the crusty spot on the carpet in front of your chair)

Can you talk disc and not your stupid yahoo personal ad.

You are an old man driving by elementary schools in a beat up van with no windows.

Go take your geritol and S T F U !!!!!! :D:D:D

I got a duce on #6 at Granite gride in Highbridge Hills during Mid-Nationals, don't know what par Chuck would consider that hole, but it sure plays like a par 5. From the tee it's a RH anhyzer for about 300' then a RH hyzer down hill for another 325' -350' with a lake behind the pin, and don't forget the tight fairway and huge trees to navagate around!!! :cool:



Zac,

No doubt that was an amazing two, especially since you basicly parked it.

However I believe the hole is a par 4. The hole is listed at 485' and rated as having an adjusted hole length of 395' (on course evaulation by Chuck K).
I had drop in fours both rounds and was very dissappointed. The first round my drive kicked off a tree and went 60 ' feet off the fairway and I was 60' from the pin on my second shot. The next round I threw a worm burner that died 70' off the tee and was 30' away on my second shot. Neither of those 4s were birdies. I'd rank the hole as a par 3.8 which converts to a 4.

Your 2 was a definate eagle and while impressive it wasn't a double eagle.

Zac's 2 on Granite #6 in the C position was on a legit Par 5 for Blue level (950) players. The forecast scoring average was 4.64 and it came out as 4.62 from the actual scores at Mid-Nats for the Blue division.

Of course, if you're using true pars on Winthrop Gold, the quarter mile hole usually averages over 5.5 (par 6) and I think at least a few 3s have been recorded.

Sweet!!! :cool:Either way, I'm counting it as a double untill some one else can do it!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Chuck,

I'm curious as to what the ssa was on that hole. Like I mentioned earlier, the 4s I took surely didn't feel like birdies (they felt like bogies).

Since it's roughly 5 throws different between Gold Level SSA and Blue level scoring averages for the course, the SSA for each Granite hole will be about 0.28 (5.0/18) less than the scoring average for Blue players. In this case, hole 6 in the C pin would be 4.62-0.28=4.34 SSA. So, it would be a Par 4 if that course layout was designed for Gold level play. However, I might have used the middle B pin (about 60 feet shorter) if a Gold division was playing it where the scoring average would be closer to 4 and list it as a solid par 4.

Chuck,

I'm curious as to what the ssa was on that hole. Like I mentioned earlier, the 4s I took surely didn't feel like birdies (they felt like bogies).



Yeah thats an awesome two, but im not sure if it can be a Par-5 because it can take one good drive to get down or even past the hole. In one of my rounds there i was 25-30 ft short but i missed my putt for a 2, and im sure a couple other people probably did too.

Since it's roughly 5 throws different between Gold Level SSA and Blue level scoring averages for the course, the SSA for each Granite hole will be about 0.28 (5.0/18) less than the scoring average for Blue players. In this case, hole 6 in the C pin would be 4.62-0.28=4.34 SSA. So, it would be a Par 4 if that course layout was designed for Gold level play. However, I might have used the middle B pin (about 60 feet shorter) if a Gold division was playing it where the scoring average would be closer to 4 and list it as a solid par 4.




I'm not sure if I buy into your methodology for forecasting. You're taking the ssa difference for the entire course and simply dividing by 18 to arrive at an ssa difference per hole. While that may be a quick approximation I would suspect it would be far from accurate as on some holes the difference would be greater and on some holes there would be much less variation between the divisions.

You put a field of 1000 rated players on the course and I'd expect more threes than fives on this hole. I'm not sure how much shorter the B pin is, but if you shortened the hole by 60' it would be a par 3 in my mind.

I'm not sure how accurate you expect forecasting to be but in this case, the forecast of 4.64 versus an actual of 4.62 was right on. You may not think the difference should be consistent among holes of different lengths and character but amazingly it works out that way and is certainly close enough for estimating purposes.

We thought that maybe certain holes that have long carries across water would have a break in the linearity of scoring average at some point as you shift down in skill level. But it doesn't seem to happen. We tested it on Fountain Hills data where several holes have carries that lower rated players can't cross and have to play a longer route around the water. It turns out that the better players take enough OB penalties by trying to cross the water that the smooth change in scoring average is maintained. Strange but true.

If we had a group of players who averaged 1000 rating whether it's 100 playing it once or 50 playing it twice, I'd expect their average on that Granite #6 long pin C to be within +/- 0.2 of 4.3.

off subject but i got my first eagle yesterday

Congrats!!! That's quite an accomplishment.

Care to give the juicy details?
(hole length, par of hole, drive length, putt length, disc/shot choice)

Elaine King almost had a double eagle when she hit metal on the 900+ foot hole at the Snowbowl? course at Pro worlds in flagstaff.

The Longest recorded ace was most definitely a double eagle, it was over 700 feet, even at 180 foot elevation drop, that's not a par 3.

So the 900' downhill shot at Snowbowl was a par 5?

If so that makes it even more impressive.

What's the term for 4 under par on a hole?

(pipedream? lying sack of sh-- ? act of God?)

-1 = birdie
-2 = eagle = big bird
-3 = albatross = world's largest flying bird (http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/About_Antarctica/Wildlife/Birds/Albatrosses.html)
-4 = Emu? Ostrich? Pteranodon (http://www.hoyhoy.com/pter.jpg) ? B19? What's bigger than an albatross?

I have an ace on a hole that would probably be a par 4 for blue level players. It was only 354' but you pretty much have to hit the fairway perfect to get to the basket, plus there is a ton of OB that the disc must travel over to get there. I had taken a double circle 7 the day before on this hole. And it has a lot of trees.

I doubt it will ever be aced again, and a bonus was that I had 10 kids plus parents watching our group when we teed off.

pretty sure that 900 foot DOWNHILL hole was a par 4. I think it was reachable by most pros, if they got their disc to fly right, but to get a disc to fly that far downhill and have a putt is pretty unlikely... Not sure if Elaine made the putt.

pretty sure that 900 foot DOWNHILL hole was a par 4. I think it was reachable by most pros, if they got their disc to fly right, but to get a disc to fly that far downhill and have a putt is pretty unlikely... Not sure if Elaine made the putt.



She took a 3.

that's because the disc was traveling so fast it bounced 50ft away!

Hey luke, what hole? local?

#15 at Chestnut Ridge in Buffalo.

-1 = birdie
-2 = eagle = big bird
-3 = albatross = world's largest flying bird
-4 = Emu? Ostrich? Pteranodon ? B19? What's bigger than an albatross?



from worldgolf.com (http://www.worldgolf.com/wglibrary/reference/dictionary/cpage.html):

CONDOR: A four-under par shot. A hole-in-one on a par 5 for example. Has occurred on a hole with a heavy dogleg, hard ground and no trees. Might also be called "a triple eagle".

From: Scandinavian Open Wrap Up (http://www.pdga.com/so-wrap-up):

However none of them could claim an Albatross, which local player Daniel Strandberg achieved when his 3rd shot from about 90m/300’ on the 350m/1155’ (par 6) opening hole nestled in the basket. (Has anyone else ever had an Albatross in disc golf?)

http://www.pdga.com/files/images/DSCN0228-1.jpg

http://www.pdga.com/files/images/DSCN0170B.jpg

I saw Rory Joyce get a 2 on this course's par 5 12th - in a PDGA event too!

http://www.newhanoverdgc.com/photos.php

Threw a great tee shot and then skipped in a sidearm from about 350. Unreal how hard this hole is.

Someone deuced the 901' 12th at Winthrop a year or two back, reportedly threw it in from about 450'.

Golf has seen over the centuries that double eagles become more prevalent when par values don't keep up with technological innovations. I have seen that over the decades in this game.

Someone deuced the 901' 12th at Winthrop a year or two back, reportedly threw it in from about 450'.

Tim Skellenger from Oregon!

http://www.pdga.com/player-stats?PDGANum=26269

Great player, great guy.

Would Barsby's ace on long hole 4 at De Lavega be considered a double-eagle?

Would Barsby's ace on long hole 4 at De Lavega be considered a double-eagle?

While technically no, since the hole is a par 3 and does get birdied often enough, it is one of the sickest aces imaginable and certainly takes strokes on the field.

But has anybody ever seen a double rainbow (whoa) on the disc golf course?

WHy are guests premitted to post?

WHy are guests premitted to post?

They aren't anymore. But they were when that post was made in 2005. http://www.pdga.com/discussion/images/icons/icon3.gif

Idlewild in Burlington, KY (Cincinnati area) offers some great opportunities.

an Ace on hole 1 (would take an absolute crush)
an ace from 2 long tee (not likely)
an ace from 3 long tee (not likely)
a deuce on hole 5
a deuce on hole 6 (probably impossible)
an ace on hole 8 long pin (probably impossible)
an ace on hole 10 (probably impossible)
an ace on 11
an ace from 13 long pin (ridiculous but possible i guess)
a deuce on 14 long tee
a deuce on hole 15 (possible -- i hit the green in 2 shots once in PDGA play)
an ace on 16 long pin
a deuce on 18

WHy are guests premitted to post?

[sarcasm mode fully engaged] that was back when we foolishly welcomed non-members to participate :rolleyes:

Idlewild in Burlington, KY (Cincinnati area) offers some great opportunities.


a deuce on hole 15 (possible -- i hit the green in 2 shots once in PDGA play)


Did you make the putt? ;)

Did you make the putt? ;)

no, in my mind I had already put myself down for an eagle 3, but it took a long time for the others on the card to hole out before it was time for me to can the 12 footer for an eagle 3. A guy who had spotted was up the hill taking my picture as I let my putt go -- and it hit the number plate! Fortunately I used that miss to focus better on putts the rest of the event! That miss helped me sink an eagle 3 on 18 from 25 feet later. I was playing pretty good that day (which earned me two rounds on the same card with Dean Tannock).