Just wanted to know what everyones thoughts on moving up were.

Any thoughts or ideas are great. I just wanted to know what everyone thought.

I personally think we lose alot of players because people move up to soon. I have talked to so many guys who moved up to Open and then quit playing because they moved up to soon. I also think its mostly our fault that we lose these players as well. People are way to hell bent on making everyone move up as soon as they show any bit of skill and most of the time they move up not because they think they are ready but because they are sick of being called a BAGGER. Thats my thoughts on that.

What does everyone else think???

I moved up after winning worlds but i would have moved up no matter how i did at worlds. it just got to the point where i wanted to play with better players and playing ams will only make u so good. I wanted the greater challenge of open b/c it will make me better.

The time to move up is when you want to compete at higher level against better competition. If you want to stay and play with ams, then do so. Just realize you will only get so much better playing in the amatuer ranks, You gain more experience in the pro ranks by watching, and playing with the pros.

Moving up to regular cashing position takes some time and experience along with having the skills. Some players don't get to the point of regular cashing. Some players excell and do better than others. You just step up and play, if thats what you want to do. There is no right time, you have to want it.

It's not who has the game, it's who brings the game.

I moved up after winning worlds but i would have moved up no matter how i did at worlds. it just got to the point where i wanted to play with better players and playing ams will only make u so good. I wanted the greater challenge of open b/c it will make me better.



Yeah what he said except the winning worlds thing I was the 1st loser. :D:D

Do you guys think alot of people move up to fast and then just quit playing because its not fun anymore. If you ask me I would say that Advanced has to be the most fun division to play in. I havent played but 1 Open tournament but to me it seems like the Advanced guys are always having the most fun.

We have a major problem with that in TX which is why we have a shaky Pro field. People need to get as much exoerience in ADv before moving up.

just move up and won't have to keep askin yourself that question. :D

Kind of like you did in 04'?

Do you guys think alot of people move up to fast and then just quit playing because its not fun anymore. If you ask me I would say that Advanced has to be the most fun division to play in. I havent played but 1 Open tournament but to me it seems like the Advanced guys are always having the most fun.


Maybe but it is way more fun to get a check.

I personally think we lose alot of players because people move up to soon. I have talked to so many guys who moved up to Open and then quit playing because they moved up to soon.




In the olden days, that was true. Now, you can cash in pro, and as long as your rating is below a certain number, you can bounce back to AM.

I don't nec. believe in bouncing around. I've always observed that if you put yourself up against stiffer competition that you'll play closer to that competition.

i'm not a pro, but here's my thoughts anywayz... 946 rating is not gonna be much fun in Open. you prolly dont need to reach your full goal of 970, but at least get to 960-965 consistently. unless you are winning everything you enter there should still be some challenge at 950.

but forget about the reasons like wrecking your truck. theres ALWAYS gonna be reasons like that (altho hopefully not that dramatic) if you delay moving up for stuff like that you'll never move up. there is ONE valid reason for staying Adv, and thats not it.

but forget about the reasons like wrecking your truck. theres ALWAYS gonna be reasons like that




If you want to play with the big dogs, you can't pee like a puppy! :p


Scooter, the only thing shaky around here is my big belly! :D

Kind of like you did in 04'?



:eek: :eek: :eek: OH SNAP!!! That one had to sting just a little bit :D

The people who quit are having the wrong attitude about it, or are not evolving there game.
You need to keep positive, your out there to have fun and compete, just remember [I'm a potty-mouth!] happens.
You might need to practice to get solid enough in your skills, but you probably are solid enough.
Stay confident, Keep level headed, and play on. Never quit or slack off, You would be suprised at how bad pro's can suck to. As soon as you slack off, you realize 1 more stroke I would have cashed or made another $100.
Most of this game is mental. Just bring the game, be confident and STEP UP.

Didn't take long to find this:

1 month before AM worlds 2004 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4229)

i'm not a pro, but here's my thoughts anywayz... 946 rating is not gonna be much fun in Open. you prolly dont need to reach your full goal of 970, but at least get to 960-965 consistently. unless you are winning everything you enter there should still be some challenge at 950. <font color="orange"> I think location has alot to do with being able to move up as well. 946 is CRAP in Open in MI. Almost every single local tournament I attend is to have 3-6 990+ rated pros and 3 of them will prolly be 1000+ rated and some of them dont even cash. </font>

but forget about the reasons like wrecking your truck. theres ALWAYS gonna be reasons like that (altho hopefully not that dramatic) if you delay moving up for stuff like that you'll never move up. there is ONE valid reason for staying Adv, and thats not it. <font color="orange"> I would have to say not getting to attend all the tournaments that I wanted to and not getting to play worlds because I was broke from getting a new truck is a pretty valid reason to stay am. Heck ANY reason is a good reason to stay am. No one should HAVE to turn pro. I mean this is the only sport I know of that if you have 1 good amateur season and start to show some skill you are expected to move up. I think its insane. If you look at the am division of all other sports you will see that the good ams stay am for a while before they move up. Heck Tiger won 3 Nationals Am Championships before he decided to move up. As of right now Im thinking about staying am so I can have another good year and take a shot at 06 Worlds. Whether anyone thinks thats right or wrong its up to them but as of right now I think its the best choice for me :D</font>

Didn't take long to find this:

1 month before AM worlds 2004 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4229)







where was walt, schwebby, and the rest of the NC gang?

To me it sounds like you don't want to move up. If you don't want to move, don't move up.
Saying that there are 3-6 990 + rated players at a tournament and some of them might not cash sounds like a confidence issue. You got to Say I'm going to go kick their ***** this weekend. It might not happen but you have to have that confidence.
That many players rated that high means that many players to feed off of, and learn from.

Didn't take long to find this:

1 month before AM worlds 2004 (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=4229)







where was walt, schwebby, and the rest of the NC gang?



Don't know, regardless he whooped up on a pro field 1 month before AM worlds....I guess that's one way to get your game ready.

Im just telling it how it is.

965 golf in Open in MI is not going to cut it. Thats just how it is. I think i need to take another year and get in better shape and practice more and get more tournament expierience and take a crack at 06 worlds and 06 USADGC and then move up. I mean shoot I only won 3 tournaments this ear.

pimp dont u know the pros get higher round ratings? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

so all you are able to shoot is 965 golf right now?

With 965 golf, you can come to the 2006 Mid-Nats and try to win the Blue division like Scooter did this year...

I won an advanced C-tier and went to the open division. Besides that I cashed a couple of other times in advanced.
I can assure I was half as good as you are now.

That was at a different point though, It's a lot stiffer competition now than what it was a few years ago.

It took me about a year to step up my game, I been growing as a player ever since I stepped up. You got to want it to get it. You got to be confident. Jack isn't scared, He is stepping up in area harder than yours I believe. I'm not saying your scared, just that you don't have enough confidence in yourself and skills.

pimp dont u know the pros get higher round ratings?



Chuck says thats not supposed to happen anymore but I dont see how thats possible since. They take the average score and the average rating and go from there. If the average rating of the Open division is 990 and the average score is 48 then a 48 is 990 rated. If the average ratings is 950 and they have the same average score of 48 wont it be rated 950 as well??? Doesnt make any scence


so all you are able to shoot is 965 golf right now?



The PDGA says I average 946 right now ;) :eek: :p

I think im better then that but who am I to say the ratings dont work. I mean heck everyone seems to think they are just fine right??? :D

It took me about a year to step up my game, I been growing as a player ever since I stepped up. You got to want it to get it. You got to be confident. Jack isn't scared, He is stepping up in area harder than yours I believe. I'm not saying your scared, just that you don't have enough confidence in yourself and skills.



Its not that. I just dont see a real good reason to move up right now and I want a shot at the 06 worlds and USADGC.

I think im better then that but who am I to say the ratings dont work. I mean heck everyone seems to think they are just fine right??? :D



Absolutely, the PDGA ratings system is flawless and is totally accurate....nothing beats a balanced handicap system like the one we have in place right now...The rating system ROX!!

[/QUOTE]

Its not that. I just dont see a real good reason to move up right now and I want a shot at the 06 worlds and USADGC.

[/QUOTE]

All this is telling me is that you don't want to move up yet.
That is fine, like I said before if you don't want to move up yet, don't move up yet.

Absolutely, the PDGA ratings system is flawless and is totally accurate....nothing beats a balanced handicap system like the one we have in place right now...The rating system ROX!!



Heck yes it does!!! I mean those sub 900 rounds I shot 6 months ago are a great factor to have in there when you are determining how good I am now right??? :D

Keeping those older rounds looks a little bit better when you're talking about not moving up. It would be a little tough to continue bagging if your rating was based on relatively recent rounds so it was maybe 975-980. Having a little lag in there helps Ams to mentally catch up with their physical performance so there's not too much pressure to keep moving up too fast.

With 965 golf, you can come to the 2006 Mid-Nats and try to win the Blue division like Scooter did this year...



Yeah I think that is a must. Highbridge was awesome and I will try my best to make it back if I ever can. :D

from what I have read in the past, the mental ketchup may take some time. lol j/k n/r

Keeping those older rounds looks a little bit better when you're talking about not moving up. It would be a little tough to continue bagging if your rating was based on relatively recent rounds so it was maybe 975-980. Having a little lag in there helps Ams to mentally catch up with their physical performance so there's not too much pressure to keep moving up too fast.



Bagging. Thats hillarious. The only true baggers were Coda Hatfield and Justin Jernigan. To be a bagger you have to be able to play in and compete with and cash and beat the pros and stay down and whip up on the ams. I appreciate that you guys think im a bagger. I take it as a compliment but I played a NT and was 12 strokes out of cash. Granted the second day I ran at everything inside 200ft because I didnt care anymore but I didnt cash and if I moved up I wouldnt be cashing either.

JJ declined large amounts of money in the Open division to stay and play AM. Thats bagging. Coda could have done the same thing he just chose to DOMINATE and for 11 tournaments in a row or something crazy. Those guys were BAGGERS. Oh I forgot to add Dave Shaw he was a bagger too but as of right now I dont think ANYONE playing the am division is a bagger. Not me not Junilla not Matt Hall (pro now) not Jackie smalls (pro now) not OG not Hein not Robinson not Olsen (well maybe Olsen :D) but really I think the people who are called baggers are reall the people who are where they should be and on their way to becoming pros. They arent pro level and playing with the ams which is what I really consider sandbagging.

Just my 2 cents.

I also really believe that if you never want to play pro you shouldnt have to. I mean who cares if you win every single tournament ever. There are still tons of cash spots open to make it into. The really good players are going to pass those guys up and move on to bigger and better things anyway. Plus there were 60+ tournaments in MI this year and we prolly had close to 60 different champs in the advanced division so I really dont think bagging is as big of a problem as people say it is.

Baggin was just invented by the pros cause they want the guys that arent ready to move up so they can win their money :eek:

from what I have read in the past, the mental ketchup may take some time. lol j/k n/r



I resemble that remark. Oh wait that a bad thing right Oh well who cares I can throw 750 feet :D;) :p

how can you call JJ a bagger? first he wasnt ready, second he had not even been seriously playing all that long. its not like he was out tehre playing am for years and years and years waiting to one day hopefully go win am worlds, and if he didnt, then he kept on returning. no, that was not JJ.
he is just all natural talent. since he was not a bagger, he stepped up to play open (and did awsome) and declined, so he could have is one chance at worlds. i am sure even if JJ had not won am worlds he surely would have moved up, regardless.

millz, you too haev lots of natural talent. you will play better with better players. you could be the best in the world if you worked on your head game. and the only way to ever improve your skills is to play with better players.

if you arent ready to go pro, then dont. who cares if anyone calls you a bagger.... you definatley have never been the type of person to care what one thinks about you... why start now?

steve, as for when is it the right time to move up?
there is never a right time for anything in life....
as long as your an opportunist itll all happen for you....

Steve, it sounds to me like you *really* wanted that crystal USADGC trophy... If you decide that you want bigger things -- like maybe the DGLO Open title, it may happen. if you go for it, even if it doesn't happen , you'll be in that much better a position to earn it the following year.

if you want to play AM next year go for it. but when you look back in ten years time, you may have wished you pushed the envelope sooner in order to develop, rather than later in order to win AM titles...

it's your decision, and there is no wrong answer. Matt isn't saying what he is saying to you to take your money though -- he seems to believe more in your game than you do ... :confused:

Pimp you got a 45 in Warwick shorts. Freaky round for an AM, the course record at one time was 44 by Craig Gangloff (since broken many times, 43 Brian McCree, 42 Cutler, now the record is 40 by Des Reading's husband) so how can a round like that be AM?

Move up dude :cool:.

Pimp you got a 45 in Warwick shorts. Freaky round for an AM, the course record at one time was 44 by Craig Gangloff (since broken many times, 43 Brian McCree, 42 Cutler, now the record is 40 by Des Reading's husband) so how can a round like that be AM?

Move up dude .



I had my upshot on hole 5 hit the root in front of the basket and roll to 45 too during that round. What you need to look at are the following rounds that were rated 954 914 915. Those are for sure AM rounds. I just think I want to have one more year of fun before I move up. Plus when I move up I want to be able to go on tour and there is no way ill have the money for that by next season :mad:

By the way Jenn. JJ was the biggest bagger of all time. Denied cash at USDGC and WON an Open tournament before playing AM Worlds. How can you say hes NOT a bagger??? I have never even placed in the cash in Open to deny it and people call me a bagger :D

how can you call JJ a bagger? first he wasnt ready, second he had not even been seriously playing all that long. its not like he was out tehre playing am for years and years and years waiting to one day hopefully go win am worlds



No, he had been playing for years and years, just not tournaments. He obviously was more than ready to mentally compete with the best(10th at the Dogwood w/o his own discs) And he waited so long to play AM Worlds that by the time he did he was a huge favorite to win. Going to any tournament where you are that big of of a favorite means one thing-you're a bagger!

I'm sure the guys in Texas had similar thoughts when Coda would show up for a tournament and play Adv., and then win by 12 strokes.

Keeping those older rounds looks a little bit better when you're talking about not moving up. It would be a little tough to continue bagging if your rating was based on relatively recent rounds so it was maybe 975-980. Having a little lag in there helps Ams to mentally catch up with their physical performance so there's not too much pressure to keep moving up too fast.



Bagging. Thats hillarious. The only true baggers were Coda Hatfield and Justin Jernigan. To be a bagger you have to be able to play in and compete with and cash and beat the pros and stay down and whip up on the ams. I appreciate that you guys think im a bagger. I take it as a compliment but I played a NT and was 12 strokes out of cash. Granted the second day I ran at everything inside 200ft because I didnt care anymore but I didnt cash and if I moved up I wouldnt be cashing either.

JJ declined large amounts of money in the Open division to stay and play AM. Thats bagging. Coda could have done the same thing he just chose to DOMINATE and for 11 tournaments in a row or something crazy. Those guys were BAGGERS. Oh I forgot to add Dave Shaw he was a bagger too but as of right now I dont think ANYONE playing the am division is a bagger. Not me not Junilla not Matt Hall (pro now) not Jackie smalls (pro now) not OG not Hein not Robinson not Olsen (well maybe Olsen :D) but really I think the people who are called baggers are reall the people who are where they should be and on their way to becoming pros. They arent pro level and playing with the ams which is what I really consider sandbagging.

Just my 2 cents.

I also really believe that if you never want to play pro you shouldnt have to. I mean who cares if you win every single tournament ever. There are still tons of cash spots open to make it into. The really good players are going to pass those guys up and move on to bigger and better things anyway. Plus there were 60+ tournaments in MI this year and we prolly had close to 60 different champs in the advanced division so I really dont think bagging is as big of a problem as people say it is.

Baggin was just invented by the pros cause they want the guys that arent ready to move up so they can win their money :eek:



True i declined money because i wanted to play ONE Am tournament, which happened to be the biggest AM tournament of the year. i didnt play any am events that year except that one, unlike you who has play alot of advanced tournaments and only one open tournament. so say what you want, but according to you i was only a bagger for one tournament :D

True i declined money because i wanted to play ONE Am tournament, which happened to be the biggest AM tournament of the year. i didnt play any am events that year except that one. so say what you want, but according to you i was only a bagger for one tournament



I meant no offence by it at all. I think people are to quick to call people baggers and pressure them to move up and I think thats why we lose alot of our player base. Its because any time anyone shows some skill or that they could be good everyone jumps all over them and tells them to move up. Then they move up cash once or twice and quit because its not fun anymore or because they werent ready to move up in the first place.

JJ your a great golfer and I meant no offense when saying you were a bagger. Whenever people call me a bagger I respond with "Thanks I take that as a compliment" :D

Good luck at USDGC man.

no worries

Here's a formula for moving up.

Set a goal.

6 1000 rated rounds. When you've gotten 6 1000 rated rounds, you are on the cusp of shooting pro level golf.

or you can also add the goal I had this year: no 8XX rated rounds. This is the best goal you can have for now. It means no TANKING, you can't let your guard down when you are having a bad day, can't chalk it up to "being an am". If you want to play pro in the future, you need to start thinking and playing like a pro now. That may not mean you have to play Pro, still play advanced, but play with focus.

Here's a good plan for ya.
If you start winning am events left and right, it's only fair to start playing pro. Your winnings from all those am tournaments you are doubling, tripling, etc. your entry fee on are your "bankroll" for pro. Make a goal of selling your plastic after every big am win or top 3 and using that money to pay the extra for Pro next time. If you don't cash, or if you just barely cash and don't take it, play advanced next time. But if you win in Am again, repeat the process and go back into pro. What it will do is get you a little bit of both worlds, you can try your game in both divisions, getting a taste of both.

The thing you have to remember is, nobody in pro will disrespect you for stepping up a tournament. They all had to make that decision. And they really aren't that much better than you are right now. You just need to learn consistency, longevity, restraint, patience, desire. When you start putting all of this stuff together, you'll start doing well in pro and the dilemma of take cash or go for that am title will start to blur. Having a shot at Am Worlds and Am Nats are just that, a shot. You may come down with food poisoning the week before, you may have a family emergency, you may simply be in a dry spell, but playing well the rest of the year and cashing in pro is rewarding in itself.

Hell, I didn't cash at Worlds this year, but I did pretty well, and succeeded in getting into the semis. I was happy with that. I've only cashed a few times this year, but I've been in the position to cash a lot, I just seem to fall apart on Sunday. It's what I have to work on. If I really start to stink, I can always go back to Am, but I probably won't, I just won't play expensive tournaments much. No biggie.

All that matters is what is important to you. Playing with better players will make you play better, both in practice and in tournaments. I have experienced it a few times, so people do not lie when they say it. When I play Open, I make fewer mistakes (even top pros make mistakes, everyone does), because I use better course management skills. Mainly because I do not want to appear like an "am" and shame myself. I have even watched a really great pro let go way too early on a drive, hit a tree 10ft off to the right, misjudge his distance on the upshot to the basket and fall down a 50ft cliff behind the basket. He blew up on the hole and carded a 5 where everyone else was taking 2's and 3's. But he came back and parked the next hole.

I have seen you overcome adversery (spelling). Take the BG Am's. You played like crud on day one, and were behind me. But the next day you said you were gunning for the top and posted the best score of day two, even calling out a -5 at White Park before the round started, and you fulfilled your promise of -5.

You have the skills and the mental game of playing Pro. You will be able to hack it out amongst them. But even the great players of now did not start out on the top, everyone pays there dues in Open and doesn't cash for a while, it takes diligence and practice.

As for me, I had intended on moving up to Open permantely in 2006. However due to a recent slump (it has been 3 months since I shot an Advanced rated round) untill this past weekend, so I have decided to change my game plan for 2006. I will dabble in the pros. Playing open in smaller events and at my local course. I will play Advanced at the big events and USADGC qualifiers. And I even plan on playing both Bowling Green tournaments this spring if I can afford it. If I cash at a C-tier or higher, then I will accept the money. However, if I do not cash, I will plan on attending Am Worlds and USADGC.

Just try dabbleing in pros at a few sanctioned events. If you can make the cut and be at the top (I know you can), then you will have your answer. But if your on the last card, move back to Am. BTW, don't go to a NT and expect to cash as an Am. That is ludicris.

how can you call JJ a bagger? first he wasnt ready, second he had not even been seriously playing all that long. its not like he was out tehre playing am for years and years and years waiting to one day hopefully go win am worlds, and if he didnt, then he kept on returning. no, that was not JJ.
he is just all natural talent. since he was not a bagger, he stepped up to play open (and did awsome) and declined, so he could have is one chance at worlds. i am sure even if JJ had not won am worlds he surely would have moved up, regardless.

millz, you too haev lots of natural talent. you will play better with better players. you could be the best in the world if you worked on your head game. and the only way to ever improve your skills is to play with better players.

if you arent ready to go pro, then dont. who cares if anyone calls you a bagger.... you definatley have never been the type of person to care what one thinks about you... why start now?

This is easy. His rating went to 1000+ right after Am worlds. :o:o

[QUOTE]
Coda could have done the same thing he just chose to DOMINATE and for 11 tournaments in a row or something crazy. Those guys were BAGGERS.



OK Coda won ten events in a row and that is the only thing I have ever beaten him in YET. :D

"When is the right time to move up???"
Next weekend! I won Adv. at this tourney last year, and after giving enough other people crap for repeating, I'm not about to even give myself the chance.
But I'm also in the same boat as some others in that I have shot some real crap this year. I plan on dabbling (in Open) as well next year. But those entry fees are steep in comparison to not winning throwing stock. I figure I have to be offered more than double my money back to even think of accepting cash. At least for now.
Good luck to all "on the brink".

For advanced open dabblers, next year at the IOS we are thinking about going much cheaper on the trophy-only option in the pro divisions. Like maybe $12.

What we have seen this year is that it adds cash to the open purse rather than subtracting cash. Nearly all of the players who have exercised this option said otherwise they would have played am or not played at all.