Hey everyone. Me again with more silly questions.

To summarize. New player. 6 months. Avg drive about 250 on a good day & a heavy outwind ( :D)
Problem is the distance I'm getting is mostly from arm & not snap/spin.
Sometimes I will release & actually see the hotstamp writing on the disc (it's spinning, but not very fast). When I see that I turn away in disgust & know it's gonna be a crappy drive.
I think the problem is the grip I use. I've tried various grips but the power grips (usually 3 finger) doesn't feel comfortable. I can't get my index finger around the rim to get the pressure I think it needs.

So, what would be a few good variations to try? (all I need is the name, I could find out details on DGR)

Thanks.

Tough question. For the most part, the big throwers (I can only assume that's what you're going for long-term) use the "full-fisted" 4-finger grip. That's everything under the rim with the thumb on top. I will say, however, that I've seen some guys that use the 4-finger switch to a 2 or 3 finger for shorter drives that demand more accuracy.

That's what I've seen. My advice is, watch the guys in your area that can throw long and straight, and ask them what they think the key to their release is. Ask them to watch you throw. There are many factors that add up to a long, straight shot. Grip, pull-through, release angle, disc stability, etc. Watch the best guys in your area and copy what they do, from footwork on up, not just grip.

There is a Discraft Sponsored Pro in your area, his home course is George Wilson Park (I lived in Goshen for 8 years), I do not remember his name, but it is on the Discraft website.

I would consider myself a big arm, not bragging but on a wide open long course I am averaging 440-460ft on my drives.

I use a three fingered power grip. I too cannot get my index finger comfortably around underneath the rim. In addition to the three finger grip, I also defy convention and place the pads of my fingers on the inside of the rim instead of the tips of my fingers.

Grip however very important to distance is not as important as snap, generated by both arm speed and your wrist, and proper form.

Playing with local pros will help you out emmensly, and will be better then trying to figure it out yourself. Also local advanced players are a good resource to use. Advanced players have all the skills of a pro, however they just cannot put all those skills together in a tournament yet.

Best of luck, and remember. When driving, try to invision yourself snapping a towel. This should add some definate snap and spin to your drives.

A couple of things. First, Pat Vitale is the pro that was previously mentioned, although he doesn't have a big arm compared with other top pros. In fact, he has done several segments on PDGA radio about how guys who can't throw far can still compete at a high level. One way is to become a great putter, and Pat is one of the best. Another way is to develop a roller. In addition to Pat, Pete Barbee and Doug Chillicote live in your area and would be good resources.

Next, to address your question of grip, everyone's hand is different, so there is no "best grip." Your focus should be on finding one that will allow you to grip the disc powerfully enough so that it will rip out of your hand when released. My suggestion would be to experiment with different grips, even ones that aren't featured on Web sites, and find several that are comfortable. After you have a few grips, get out into a field and experiment until you have found the one that works best. I just changed my grip this summer, and that is the process that I used.

Finally, I have to take issue with this:

Advanced players have all the skills of a pro, however they just cannot put all those skills together in a tournament yet.



Umm, no. Pros are pros because they have skills that advanced players just don't have. Whether those skills are course management skills, roller skills, computer hacking skills, putting skills, sidearm skills, getting out of trouble skills, bowhunting skills, or maybe even plain ol' spelling skills, your top-end pros can do things that even the best Advanced players simply can't do.

Pros are pros because they have skills that advanced players just don't have. Whether those skills are course management skills, roller skills, computer hacking skills, putting skills, sidearm skills, getting out of trouble skills, bowhunting skills, or maybe even plain ol' spelling skills, your top-end pros can do things that even the best Advanced players simply can't do.



I am more known for my nuncuck skills, bow skills, and liger drawing skills. I guess that is why I am not a pro yet. :D

As was mentioned a couple posts ago there are lot of other factors probably more critical to snap and spin than grip.

Now having said that I'll address what I've found from experience relevant to grip:

For snap (power) I use a version of the four finger power grip.

Try to curl your fingers in as tight as possible. By tight, I not talking grip pressure on the disc but rather backward/inward. The concept I'm trying to describe has been surmised by the saying "hold the disc in your fingers, not in your hand".
The other concept concerning grip I consider important is to move your thumb as close to the rim as possible.When the thumb is placed closer to the center it diminishes your wrist's range of motion. Less range of motion =less speed=less snap/torque/spin. In addition to greater wrist mobility, the thumb near the rim grip also aids in keeping your disc's nose down hence better disc attitude therefore less wind resistance therefore greater speed distance and control.

I highly reccomend Blake's site: Discgolfreview.com In addition to reviews of equipment he has a lot of technique troubleshooting articles and links to streaming video. In my mind his site is the best thing going as a resource for developing golfers. My only reservation about pimping his site is I'm afraid my fellow competitors may start visiting his site learn something and then use said knowledge to beat me at future tourneys.

Oh yeah, slightly off topic, I'll weigh in on the common thread drift subject of differences between Adv and Open players:

Mental maturity/skills are more developed in pros. Shots are more often made or missed in our minds (attitude,confidence, shot/disc selection and misc course management skills) than the actual execution of shoulder turn, wrist snap,etc.
As I've noted before on other threads, I rarely practice, am old and injured yet I often beat younger, stronger, more athletic, more physically gifted players because they beat themselves with poor decisions, lack of patience and/or discipline or negative thought processes.

Oh, and If you are a younger, stronger physically gifted pro whom I've been beating at tournaments just ignore what I just said as I don't know what I'm talking about. :p

Yeah. You're old. Right. Late 30's prolly, oooh that's old.

Yeah I'm 38. That's not that old if you have a cushy desk job and never sustained injuries growing up. However in my case I broke the record for the most X-rays on file at the Dr.'s office where I had the majority of my broken bones set and casted. By the way I broke that record by age 13 and extended that record several times over by the age of 23.
The Open players I compete against seem to be getting younger. I own a lot of discs that are older than Matt Hall and Matt Orum. I've been throwin plastic, twisting ankles, aggravating rotator cuffs and tearing tendons long before either of those guys were born.

I prefer using a two finger power grip for snap and spin.

I find that when the normal 4-finger power grip isn't working for me I have luck with a bit of a "stack" grip. I'll place my middle finger somewhat on top of my index finger to make sure that I get a good grip with my index finger. For me it also helps orient the disc better and I get the nose down more. It may help or it may not, but it might be worth trying.

Dont ya hate people who don't follow up on advice given? :D

Anyways. I've tried a few variations over the last two days & found (as odd as it seems) that the two finger grip has been doing best for me as far as getting the disc spinning on the throw.
I've been playing semi-injured (right shoulder) so I've been holding a little back, but I havent been able to see the stamp after throwing & have gotten back to my flat/low/fast throw.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I'm going to try a few others suggested here over the next couple days.

Enjoy the weekend everyone.

imo build your grip from the ground up. start with as strong of a rip point that you can comfortably get and still pinch the nose down into the seam of your hand with the skin above the seam of the hand.

from there, build a lock that is comfortable.

spin seems to be less important the more nose down you get.
if you already have enough nose down, then more spin will basically just make the disc kick more off of trees unless you can say, double or half your spin (which is about what is needed to make noticeable flight difference).

My buddy just switched from a power grip to a 2 finger power/pinch grip. it has done a lot for his drive. i dont want to say it instantly changed, but within a week the extra snap he developed made it possible for him to throw his more overstable discs low flat and longer that before.

Power Grip !!!!

Four fingers , under the rim. Thumb on Top.

Aim , Full release , Snap with lots of spin !!!!!!

Bye !!!! :eek:

3 Finger Power Grip.. Lose the pinky.. That's what i've done and it seems to work great for me.. I can produce enough snap and seem to have decent accuracy with it compared to a full power grip. I've also been throwing this way basically since i started, but this seems to feel the best for me(i have long fingers and it feels weird to get all the fingers under the rim.)

-Scott Lewis

Thanks again everyone.

I have went back to the three finger power grip.

While I was getting some good results with only 2 fingers, I didn't feel the grip was strong enough.

If you read CanIhaveyourdiscs last "lost 40 feet" thread, the problem really wasn't my grip. It's that I wasn't pulling across my chest & being fast as the rip. Now that I've changed that I have no problem getting snap/spin on the disc.

Just got back from playing & played one of my best games ever. Four "2"s on the front 9 alone. That coming from someone who last week would be lucky to get a 2 in a entire round. :D

So thanks again for all the help. Makes me realize that while you think the problem is one thing, it could be something entirely different causing the problem.

I've found that a very good method for me, in adding distance and going from a 260 foot arm (320 max) in June to a 380 foot arm (450 most ever last week), has been snapping the towel, so to speak. If you've ever been somewhere with a wet towel you know the tendencie to get it good and twisted and snap it at somebody's back/stomach/arm/bald head... well make a motion similar to that across your body and release the disc at what would be the snap point with your wrist. The main difference is that you keep your arm moving through the wrist's snap point for a full follow through.


-Chris.

Ok. I'm going to follow up since I started this post........

I'm back to throwing crappy again. No snap/spin. I don't think it's grip related though.
I took my towel out today while waiting for the group ahead and was practicing the snap movement.
I know what it takes to get the towel to snap, but how in the heck would you follow through at that point when throwing a disc. It seems the motion would stop at that point when you're making your wrist stop.
I'm so confused. I know that's the weak spot in my throw. I have good steps,hip & shoulder movement, good pullback....but the release is where I'm failing.
http://www.spectreinternational.net/help.gif

when people talk about snapping the towel in your drives, you still snap it out fast, but you dont snap it back. snap, release then follow through.

im now finally learing back hand thinking of it this way, i always drive forehand, only approach back hand.. i also heard a funny analogy of back handing a midget as a way to flick your wrist and follow through. works for me....

Start the lawnmower and slap the midget. :eek: :eek:
- chariots of plastic



found the quote. :D

:DYeah I replied in that thread too. lol

I'm going to go out tommorow & just practice my driving in a softball field. That way if / when I shank it nobody will see. :)
I know right & left field is 290, I should bring a tape measure & see how far it is too center. I still haven't thrown a homer yet, so I guess I can set that as my goal.

PS I just did a couple quick "slaps" & I think I'm feeling what everyone is talking about. :)

Thanks.

Ok. I'm going to follow up since I started this post........

I'm back to throwing crappy again. No snap/spin. I don't think it's grip related though.
I took my towel out today while waiting for the group ahead and was practicing the snap movement.
I know what it takes to get the towel to snap, but how in the heck would you follow through at that point when throwing a disc. It seems the motion would stop at that point when you're making your wrist stop.
I'm so confused. I know that's the weak spot in my throw. I have good steps,hip & shoulder movement, good pullback....but the release is where I'm failing.




the abrupt stop of the wrist is not so much a pure stop as it is an incidental motion that occurs when the hand stops moving forward and changes direction to outward/upward.

basically, during the latter part of the throw, your forearm extends in the forward direction. you will hit a point where further continuation of the arm will no longer continue forward and the hand must change direction. at that point the wrist will recoil back to neutral, transferring the stored elasticity of the tendons in the forearm into the rim wall of the disc. assuming you accelerated the disc, there should be enough force for the disc (along the the elasticity tendon bounce force) to rip out of the hand.

keep in mind all of this happens in a very very brief period of time.

i shouldnt have even tried to explain what i meant.
i should just leave all responses to blake. lol

he's good......

Slap that midget good!!!!!! :p

I had this same "no-snap" problem at first. What helped me was reading all the boards, to figure out HOW to do it, then I got 160g Sidewinders and practiced it. The understable, forgiving Sidewinder, helped me learn to get more snap. I moved up in weight, 168-169 Sidewinders, still good snap ... Then moved on to more stable drivers.
Many comments here about how to get snap � all great stuff � but I think trying to 'learn' how to do it (get snap) is easier with an understable, light (160g or less) driver. JMO ;)

Good to hear Boneman.
I just last week picked up a 158g Sidewinder :D
I can tell I'm not throwing it right because I'm not getting the speed it needs as 1: it's not going far 2: no glide 3:fading hard left at the end (w/ a RHBH)

Looks like my practice session is going to be rained out though. I could handle a little rain, but not pouring. Will give me time to re-read this post & others.

Thanks again everyone.

I can tell I'm not throwing it right because I'm not getting the speed it needs as 1: it's not going far 2: no glide 3:fading hard left at the end (w/ a RHBH)



symptoms sound more like nose down issues. am in the works on a shorty article on how grip affects nose down in an in depth manner.

Sounds more like not releasing it flat, to me.

:p

I believe I am releasing flat but I'm back to being able to see the stamp on the disc. (not spinning very fast)
I know for sure that I don't have that "slap" in my throw.
I think it will come with practice. I just learned to throw across the body a couple weeks ago. :cool:

I believe I am releasing flat but I'm back to being able to see the stamp on the disc. (not spinning very fast)
I know for sure that I don't have that "slap" in my throw.
I think it will come with practice. I just learned to throw across the body a couple weeks ago. :cool:



If you can see the stamp on the disc then the nose definitely isn't down unless you're throwing a big hyzer or anhyzer. For straight shots you won't even be able to see the top of the disc if you have the nose down enough.

Guess I worded that wrong. Only on downhill shots can I see the actual stamp on top, but when throwing on flat ground I can see that the disc is not spinning as fast as it should. (a tye-dyed JLS where the dye goes around the edges)
But I have beaten the nose-up demon (most of the time lol)

Ask Dustin K. from Mishwaka to show you his throw. He cocks his wrist farther than anyone I've seen and that disc almost levitates it has so much spin.

I was told to [I'm a potty-mouth!] my wrist less, or was that bad advice?

It's all individual. I definitely [I'm a potty-mouth!] my wrist a little more when throwing rollers, as it's all about the spin.
I think it's just another element where you could be off on your throw. With less wrist, you're taking out another possible flaw.

ya'll trying to say c0ck?

lol. You can say cocks, but not c0ck?

Anyways, I just returned from field practice & it was pretty sad. Longest throw backhand was probably 275 feet. I don't throw sidearm,but I did manage about 290 with one throw.

I think I'll just play this video (http://www.zippyvideos.com/5470060671261426/barryschultz_2004_hole15/) of Barry Schultz on a constant loop until it sinks in. It appears he puts little effort into his throw & look how far it goes. I guess that's why he's the champ :D

prolly best off not trying to imitate barry.

he's got solid form and all, but a lot of it isn't the most efficient to try and emulate.

if you are looking at players on my site to mimic (and ignoring little nuances), i'd look at haney, jernigan, dorius, bunnell, heeren, and middlecamp. they all have pretty agnostic styles, but very good ones.

Thanks Blake.
I went through & watched all the people you suggested.
Then I went through my steps here in my living room & found one thing missing...... It seems that when I learned to throw across the body that I quit turning my body/shoulders. My shoulders were staying inline with the target throughout the entire throw & not turning (at all).
Back to the practice field :D


Thanks as always everyone.

You really ought to come out and at least watch, if not play, with the decent locals during our best shot rounds. Last Monday, I watched Pat Vitale take a 'new guy' like yourself under his wing and show him the ropes. I think the 'new guy' actually walked away with a handfull of plastic as well, he was throwing some really old beat to crap stuff. The 'new guy' was also the recipient of a fist full of cash cause being Pat's partner that night also netted him the win.

Best shot for Rum - 1pm Sunday's and 5:30pm Mondays
Best shot for Wilson - 5:30pm Tuesdays

There are other times for the other courses but it sounds like you dont venture far from South Bend.

Im telling ya man, get out there on one of theses nights. Its $5 a man, and you get to play, and learn all at the same time. This is exactly how I started playing back in the 80's.

I'll make it this Tuesday (9-27) to Wilson.
Wilson is by far the course I'm better at. 60 is my best, my avg is 64 Not too bad for a rook.
I'll be the guy in the green S-10.


(funny thing, who do I see today at Rum, my mother & her husband. LOL. She's like 55, he's like 60 something. I got her husband really into the game, it's only her 2nd but she loves it. I really need to teach her a few things. :D )

Your mom is 55 and your "oldtyme"? I resent being as old as an oldtymer! :confused:

(funny thing, who do I see today at Rum, my mother & her husband. LOL. She's like 55, he's like 60 something. I got her husband really into the game, it's only her 2nd but she loves it. I really need to teach her a few things. :D )



Somethings really need to be kept to yourself


Sorry, couldn't resist. :D:p

http://www.spectreinternational.net/headscratch.gif DId I word it wrong? I don't see anything wrong with what I said......

I found it funny that I went at just some random time to go practice & found them there. Out of all the courses around here we just happened to be at the same one at the same time.

I really need to teach her how to THROW though.
Better?


And I'm 33. So I am OLD!!! http://www.spectreinternational.net/olderrr.gif

once again, sorry, i get my sense of humor from my very disturbed roommates at college.

Dont worry the rest of us that 'got it' found it funny....... :D :D :p

As long as 1 person 'got it' I'm satisfied.