Yeah, I am a pretty analytical SOB and do not get caught up in hype. When I hear people say that they all the sudden added 25 ft or more by changing something simple like grip or stance I get very suspicious. I just by nature question everything.

That being said, what I always question actually happened to me yesterday !! I played my first Tourney this weekend and noticed people in my group taking multiple steps before their x-step. All of them were doing this. Taking a total of five steps. Well, I have been playing for a year and was told all you need for a run up is the three step x run up. And thats all Ive used.

Well, yesterday I went out to the local Course and towards end of round tried using two steps before x step. Evidently, the momentum of this 5 step method instantly put my Disc about 40ft. past where I had got it before on this hole.

It was like a lightbulb going off. :cool:
I was totally dumbfounded !!! I had only heard about things like this happening to people but never really believed it. At least not believing it could happen to me............

I disagree with people who say two steps before x step won't produce more distance. In my case , it did !!!

And the last hole I got it 50 ft. farther than I ever put it.

I feel like the more I practice this 5 step run up the more momentum I will be building and utimately the more distance I will get.

Anyone out there experience this increase in distance by increasing steps on the tee pad and producing more momentum??
And is there anyone out there who disagrees with my assertion of increasing steps meaning more distance??

Anyone out there experience this increase in distance by increasing steps on the tee pad and producing more momentum??
And is there anyone out there who disagrees with my assertion of increasing steps meaning more distance??



i talked about this a bit in my distance drilling article. you will find that adding momentum will yield diminishing returns past a certain point and will likely hit a limit.

from the sound of your experiences, chances are you really were not using your legs efficiently. people with very explosive leg power will reap less benefits from adding momentum. chances are you were just able to harness something that you were unable to before.

accuracy, footing conditions, etc. come into play as well, or we would all be using 360 turnaround runups.

as a rule of thumb i use, footwork modifications that yield more than 10% of a distance increase generally are more of a correction than an addition.

congrats on the success. have you experimented with a 4 step lead in (7 steps total) as well? i found 7 was my peak for distance but cost me too much in accuracy to ever use a lot. anything beyond 7 lost distance and eventually hit a point of being out of control.

Could have been an example of focusing on the run up distracted you from something else. Try using your old approach and think about ponys while you do it. Taking your mind off what you're doing can let you do what you know you should be doing.

I usually hit this stage after my fourth beer. :D

I noticed the more momentum in the runup the less acurate the throw as well. I am actually making myself play the fairway now by not throwing tomahawks. My control has gotten better and when I need the Toma it is explosive.

No more popping in my arm.

I have a hard time maintaining a good rythm with extra steps, but do notice a slight increase in distance with the extra steps.

I agree Blake, (not that you ever have been wrong), but I noticed that I personally only need the 3 steps in the basic X-step to get all the distance I need. (I think added distance will come from my arm form and nose angle).

But as for footing, I have fairly long legs, 36 inch inseam. So when I am doing those 3 steps, they are very wide steps and I am pushing off on each foot to gain momentum. On shorter teepads I shorten the length of my steps and actually turn further around in relation to the pin/target, whereas normally my orientation at full reachback is 180 degrees from the basket/target, on a shorter tee pad my orientation is about 200 degrees.

Of course this is only on full power drives, on shorter drives, anything inside 350ft I barely use much of my hip turn and back and concentrate most efforts on my arm.

In contrast to my three steps. A buddy of mine takes about 20 (exaggerated but it is a lot). He shuffles for about 5ft looking at the basket before he turns into his 3 step X-step. Amazingly he can throw a Classic Roc as far as I can throw a Teebird, but I doubt his little shuffle is giving him that distance. His forearms are twice the size of mine.

With all that said, I feel, like Blake said, each person will achieve their maximum distances with a particular number of steps, and no one person will use the exact same technique. However there are similarities between top distance throwers, each person uses small variances.

Best of luck DISCnDISCiple, are you planning on going to the Nat's Halloween Howler? Since you live relatively close.

I used to have a big run up (still an x step) when I started from watching others. But, I had no control at all. When I toned it down to a 3 step, I found that I gained control but did not lose distance.

I'm not sure if by 5 step you actually mean a 5 step run up or if you have a pre-x step routine. I sometimes take an exagerated step before I get into my run up; this helps me focus, and if I lose focus, I stop and start over.

Some people will spin their disc as part of their step up routine. But, it has nothing to do with the actual run up; it is merely a mental thing.

One other thing, I found that I get through rounds much fresher with a 3 step run up.

Yeah I don't know but I could have had just an aberration yesterday.
I know this morning I went to a smaller course in our town and practiced my Driving and was putting the Disc in positions I hadn't put it before. But later that night I went to Soccer Field to practice and did not have any improvement. Just the regular 310 to 330 ft.

I am just tired of not being a big arm. I don't care what anyone says. I practice my short game and putting very intensely. But when your throwing the same distance since January with an extreme amount of practice it makes you want to just quit this Sport outright.

I had a lot of jubilation yesterday but am totally demoralized after tonight.
I am fed up with it and just about ready to move on to something else. All the Pros have tried to help me with form and they keep saying it will come with time but I just don't see it happening.
I think some people are just destined to have big arms while others are not.

Just like some people are destined to having a big c@ck while others are not!! If you got one you don't really see it as a big deal and you don't even think about it. And you take it for granted. But talking with friends who don't have one its really a big deal to them and especially embarrassing and frustrating in their relationships.

Anyway, I will gauge any more progress or deteoriation later this week and post it here !!

P.S. Oh Park honestly I am about through with this game and I don't think I will be playing anymore by then. So Nats Halloween probably will not be in the schedule

I can add 200 feet to my drives by running up 200 feet and then throwing.

just cuz it's not in you everyday doesn't mean it's not there. if you could add 40ft. the other day and break 350' with ease, who's to say you're not on to something that will help you break 400'... with ease. i just took a week off (minus putting in my backyard)... due to playing really really bad for a week or so, which climaxed in a tourney (felt like 4 rounds of grooving bad habits worse while frying my brain from so much thinking). after two days back i'm playing smooth and controlled and feeling ready to improve my game again. and putting a bunch for a week didn't hurt anything, either. maybe you need a little hiatus so when you get back on the course you're excited and happy to be playing again.

You know what has added the most satisfaction and improvement in my game? I have been playing rounds focusing solely on releasing smooth. My mantra is smooth baby. Smooth baby. Smooth baby.

Next thing you know, I am consistently throwing bigger and bigger. Discs that seemed to overstable for me are now straight. My downwind/no wind driver is turning over in no wind now. When I want to, I can now grip it and rip it.

I think the important thing for me was to give up in a sense. I decided that I wasn't going to get any better adding steps, or gripping different, or getting new discs. I wasn't hitting nearly so far with my throws for the better part of the summer. But, everytime I released a disc it felt better and better.

Just last weekend it finally clicked for me. My drives were sailing man! I was finally in the lead card going into the second round. I had the third farthest drive of the tournament on the long drive hole.

I seriously believe that my giving up on throwing hard, and going back to trying to throw smooth made all the difference in the world. I was inspired by a few locals who are older and play well. I watched how smooth their approach and release on every drive was. Watching the younger big arms did not help. They just made me feel stupid as they outdrove me with ease. But, those older guys sure were good to me.

dude, don't give up. It took me almost a year to get to where I could throw past 350 ft. If you want to be good at something you have to put in the time. I understand that you have been praticing a lot.. I used to skip my college classes just to play disc golf all day :o If you just started playing in Jan. you just need to be patient.

Practice helps, but you should try to play with players better than yourself. Not necessarily pros (that can be intimidating), but some good amateur players. You are from Franklin right? You should come up to bowling green when you get a chance and play up here. There are local tournaments here and it is a really good way to practice and learn from other players. The handicap tournament is on Mondays at Lovers Lane for $1, and doubles is at Keriekas for $5. Even if you don't want to play in these weekly tournaments, you still might get a chance to play with some good players and learn a thing or two.

Anyway, don't give up after just a few months. If anything, just take a break (a couple weeks). Sometimes I play so much that I wear my body out and after a short break I come back stronger and am able to throw farther than average. Also, disc golf isn't about being able to throw 400 feet.. besides even if you can throw that far you still have to hit the putt. Focus on accuracy first, distance second.

I say give up. Just quit.

:DJust kidding.

If you could throw 310 (w/ accuracy) around my local courses you'd be a great player. I'd say the average hole around my area is between 250-300 feet, but most demand accurate shots.
But I do know where you're coming from. I just started 6 months ago & am struggling with with distance AND accuracy.
I hurt my shoulder a couple weeks ago throwing an overhand and being the old fker that I am (33) am having a tough time healing. I still play which doesnt help but my drives are showing the injury.

So. Be happy with 300 feet. Remember that some of us are lagging behind & you'll always be better than me.


In addition: Such a great bunch you DG'ers are. Playing alone tonight & was AGAIN was offered to join the group ahead. Far more advanced players...but they didn't mind my 200 foot shanks and extra time I took. Plus I got some great advice along the way.


edit: God I'm such a disc *****. Just won it! (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7178818653&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1)

So your driving "where no man has gone before", but your practice routine is just the same old thing. A couple of different ideas.

Did your game just catch up to your practice? I'm not there, but I do know that course distances are not the most accuracte. That or the idea that your course distances CAN be more easily influenced.

Or, like my situation, is your practice area harder to throw in than your courses. It's the pits. Sitting on top of a hill next to an interstate, the soccer field I throw on almost always has a cross wind or head wind or something. My distances have increased here, but not nearly as much as they have out on the course. It may be hard to see (on your practice field) that your distance has improved.

Or. Are you like my youngest son. Open fields are like open holes. He seems to lose focus and distance. His mind is very disciplined, and he has excelled at several sports. But his mind still creates problems on the easier drives.

Go to a course you haven't been to since you found this distance. Are you still driving to new heights (lengths)? Great. Then go back to your field and look for even the smallest of improvements. My guess is it's there somwhere.

One last thing. OldTyme. I got nearly ten years on you....and somebody reading this has got ten years on me. Just wait :)

Yeah,
I think Iam just going to hold off practicing drives at this Soccer Field.
If I do practice Drives it will be in a nondescript field where 100yds. can't really be visually seen. That way I will concentrate on form rather than worry about my Discs being over 300 ft.or not.
Incidentally, I think practicing Driving too much will wear and tear your arm over a period of time........So Iam just going to down scale the time I spend on practicing in the field.

Anyway, I played a relaxing Round this morning. I know I said I was quitting for awhile. That was frustration talking.
Remember guys I am an addict too. So you can't keep me off the Course more than a day or twowithout going crazy. :cool:

Incidentally, I think practicing Driving too much will wear and tear your arm over a period of time........So Iam just going to down scale the time I spend on practicing in the field.




Very true, working on proper form will help reduce the strain on your arm. I have a lot of follow through, one picture taken of me makes me look like I have two left arms! So I have to refrain and only throw 5 days a week at max. One of those days is putting.

Working in a field, like a soccer or football field with limited distance with midranges will help as well.
1) You can work on form rather then distance.
2) You can actually try throwing full speed to imitate long drives without the disc actually going far. Doing this you will be able to practice distance shots with midranges, and that will translate into using your mids teeing off on some holes so that you will be able to maintain greater control.

Think the post about just giving up and trying to throw smooth instead of far is kinda where you need to go. Take a break from trying to outdrive yourself. Try instead of improving your control. Get understable discs not to flip, get putters not to wobble (on drives), practice throwing the high speed discs low and nose down, try throwing discs high and nose down, do sweep hyzers and anhyzers, knife hyzers, try the overhand and sidearm shots too. The more you practice all these different shots the more you are going to recognize what makes the disc do different things. This will help you get control, which will probably end up in great distance. I've been stuck at 360ish for awhile, but there are some knife hyzer routes over 50 foot trees that I can make and better players can't, that kinda makes up for the been throwing 360 for months.

As far as the additional steps for the run-up goes. One of the articles at DGR talks about some people throwing better with run ups because it sets a rythm for them, more than adds momentum to the disc. My guess is this is how it benefitted you. 2 huge factors of technique are balance and timing (of your entire body). These are probably the 2 factors that change alot with my throw which creates my inconsistent throws and I could imagine them holding you back too.

Park,
I assume that is a picture of you in your Signature photo ??
Looks like a really good follow thru with good form. What are you about 6 ft. 200lbs. You look pretty solid in that picture.

Anyways, I think it is very good advise you all have given me. Don't worry too much about throwing all out for D when practicing. From now on I will not do this. Plus, the timing issue is very important. My local Pro with a 1009 rating says my timing needs to be a little more pronounced and more focused energy when I take the last step in conjunction with coming thru with the throw. The timing needs to be really just right with this last step and the coming thru of the throw. They need to coincide with each other with explosiveness.

Distance isn't everything anyhow. I'm throwing a little shorter now than I was a couple months back, but my scores have been getting better, and better.Of course I'd like to have it back, but I've been working on my putting alot more lately, and not thinking too hard about the twenty feet I've lost. It must be working, because I just beat my best score at Solitude by 6 strokes on Saturday.

Park,
I assume that is a picture of you in your Signature photo ??
Looks like a really good follow thru with good form. What are you about 6 ft. 200lbs. You look pretty solid in that picture.



Not a bad guess, you should work at the fair. :D6ft 190lbs.

To give you a short synopsis of the hole and the throw pictured.

It was at the BG Am's this year, White Park. I think it was hole #4 370ft long. We had a mild 10mph head wind that day for this hole. I took a Z-Talon hyzer release at about 80% power. Slightly long of the pin and to the right is where I ended up ~50ft putt, so I two putted (hence the name parkntwoputt), but I would not call 50ft on a 370ft hole parking by any measure; I was the only one on my card who did not duece the hole. Everyone else was within 10ft with their drives.

It's not back to what it was, but I just focused on a smooth pull and release, and overthrew a few holes, but not like I should have been. It took a beast or someone else's coyote, my roc just wouldn't do it.

I found a great way to add distance. Buy a Wraith.

Well, it worked for me.

New Discs may help you throw farther for now, but as everyone will tell you, they only cover up the problem. Work with the discs you have. going outand buying a new disc may make you appear to have fixed the problem, but it will build bad habbits.

New Discs may help you throw farther for now, but as everyone will tell you, they only cover up the problem. Work with the discs you have. going outand buying a new disc may make you appear to have fixed the problem, but it will build bad habbits.



I'm actually kidding. The Wraith does seriously help, though at the same time I wonder if it has ruined some longer courses for me... I've gone from a 350 foot arm with occasional 400 foot drives to a 380 with occasional 430s... it has really changed some holes for me. Then again, I suppose I could just bump up to Pro Tees...

*shrug* I've got plenty of improving and I won't stop until I've got a 550 foot arm, so believe me I'm going to keep working on form.


-Chris.