I watched a program about baseball the other day, and it got me thinking. The program was about the speed a baseball, when thrown, leaves the bat when hit. This bat/baseball speed allows for aluminum bats in college and lower, and wooden bats in MLB.

So, this made me wonder about a baskets "catch" ability at certain speeds.

I'd like to see a standard set that determines a baskets ability to catch a thrown disc.

Use a skeet shooting device (I don't know the name) and first find out how fast a disc leaves the device. You could clock the speed with a radar gun. Then slow the device down to shoot a disc at about 10 mph (I'm guessing average speed of a putt). Shoot the 10mph disc at a basket, dead center in the sweet spot, from about 10-15 feet. I would expect a PDGA approved basket to catch about 99%+ of those shots.

This is in no way a complaint about any specific basket, but I think a standard could be established.

Just an idea.

If you notice the standards to become a PDGA approved basket, they do not have to have any type of deflection device nor chains if you have one. In other words, a tub could be an approved target. So, this would fail the test immediately.

Also, once you consider all of the variations that would have to be included, it becomes daunting and expensive to do the test properly. For example, the following variables would have to be considered for fairness: velocity, trajectory, disc angle, disc type, disc material, putter position (upside down), height in the chains, distance from pole centerline, rotational position of chain assembly.

I like the way you think, no chains, no pole, no chain support. A cylinder in space. Left brain action.

So how do we come up with a basket that will "catch" at a PDGA approved standard. Would the disc just have to pass through the cylinder, or would it have to come to rest in the bucket? If it just has to pass through the cylinder, how would you know if your putt was good or not? Optical sensors could alert the thrower of a disc passing through the cylinder. I am, of course, just thinking outloud, with no thought towards durability, price, ect.

Daunting and expensive. Yes. but worth a go, I think so. Growth is painful sometimes.

build a better mousetrap.....

I think the notion of "coming to rest" in a location that indicates completion of the hole is key. One of the shortcomings of object disc golf is the fact that there is often a judgement call about whether or not a shot actually did hit the target or not. Having that place where the disc comes to rest provides irrefutable finality...closure.

Tone targets are an improvement, but do not take into account the speed of force of the shot. Just like a ball golf putt that is moving too fast doesn't stay in the hole, putts or shots that move too fast or are too hard shouldn't count, but do on tone targets.

The key question is: "what is the basket/catching device intending to represent?" I vaguely remember a conversation with Steady Ed on this topic. He said that in designing his catching devices, he was trying to simulate a human being playing catch. The "sweet spot" of the basket was like catching a throw from your friend in the pit of the stomach. Cool idea.

How do you design a "disc iron Byron" that can test that design principle?

How about the bizarre standard of a Disc Catching Device actually catching a disc, yet somehow we rationalize, inspite of reality, that it has not "caught" the disc?

While I'm not trying to criticize your idea (you were just throwing it out there), I think a catching standard is unnecessary.
The market will sort things out based upon performance. A smart consumer doesn't purchase 18 of anything that has significant cost until he becomes sold on the first one. If a new disc target hits the market people will try it (or just buy one) before they install 18 on a course.
I believe today's baskets are vastly improved over the mach 1's of the early and mid 80's. If you hit in the sweet spot today's baskets will catch 96-99% of putts (assuming you're using a putter and reasonable putting speed/angle/trajectory) and probably 75-85% of all drives.
Yes, I understand I just used numbered percentages without any verifiable test data to back it up, they are my estimates I acknowlege the figures are my opinion and not facts.

I think puting time money and effort into establishing catching standards is rather unproductive at this stage of our sport's maturity. If a basket doesn't catch (reasonably well) you won't see it on the courses.

The key question is: "what is the basket/catching device intending to represent?" I vaguely remember a conversation with Steady Ed on this topic. He said that in designing his catching devices, he was trying to simulate a human being playing catch. The "sweet spot" of the basket was like catching a throw from your friend in the pit of the stomach. Cool idea.



On the course, we always joke when we miss putts, that if the basket was a person, we could have hit it from 90ft away, and it could have been moving. But make it stationary, 30ft away and try to make it so your score does not sky rocket, then we miss. Stupid game, but that is why I love it.

The key question is: "what is the basket/catching device intending to represent?" I vaguely remember a conversation with Steady Ed on this topic. He said that in designing his catching devices, he was trying to simulate a human being playing catch. The "sweet spot" of the basket was like catching a throw from your friend in the pit of the stomach. Cool idea.



On the course, we always joke when we miss putts, that if the basket was a person, we could have hit it from 90ft away, and it could have been moving. But make it stationary, 30ft away and try to make it so your score does not sky rocket, then we miss. Stupid game, but that is why I love it.


http://www.centxdglove.com/putterman.gif

Thanks for the origin of the basket, that's good to know. Now if I can just convince myself I'm just throwing to a friend....
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The market will dictate which basket is best at any given time, but I thought Mach 3's where as good as they get, then I putted on a Chainstair/Mach 5.

If you were to drop a basketball from a constant height, so that the ball reached a constant speed during the freefall, directly over a hoop, 100% of the time it would pass through the hoop for a point. If a pool ball is rolled at a controlled (slow/average) speed towards the pocket the ball would drop into the pocket. If you rolled a golf ball at a controlled (again slow/average speed) towards the cup, it will fall at a high percentage. Why should our sport be any different, when it comes to the target? Again, not a rant, or a complaint, just wondering what the future can bring.

So maybe not a catch standard. How about a catch rating, similar to the disc speed rating. I won't say anything negative about any specific basket, but at the top of my rating would be the Chainstar/Mach 5, with a rating of about 8.5. On a scale from 1-10, 10 being the best catch.

I was kicking this idea about in my 1 cylinder engine I call a brain, when a bell went off, literally and figuratively. I was thinking about how an optical sensor could be used for disc golf. I stopped at a gas station for a soda, and when I walked in, a bell alerted the cashier someone had entered the store. That's when it hit me. Blind Disc Golf. You would need a sighted spotter/guide. But a distinct sound could alert throwers where the tee is, and a second distinct sound for the target. Players throw towards the sound of the basket. Instead of chains, have a series of these optical sensors to detect motion within the cylinder, change the bell to a ching sound. Blind disc golf. I haven't thought of a way to navigate obstacles on the fairway yet, but I think its a start. Could be a great Eagle Scout project.

Lastly, thanks for the soundboard. Good to get some ideas out there and see what people think.

And that guy putting, that is soooo frikin cool! How did you do that?

I kind of like that different targets don't all catch the same. It's another added dimension that can make all courses and holes different. Ball golf doens't need different targets like this because small grades in the green already makes putting difficult. We need a pretty steep grade to really affect our putting.

Some of the courses around here have those green drum type baskets and they make easy holes quite a bit harder. Unless you're an amazing putter, you have to land pretty close to them to have a good chance at hitting the put. Either way you have to be much closer than you would on a Mach III to be in your "high confidence" range.

Plus, who says we have to be like most other sports? Exploring a dimension that normally isn't explored is always fun.

Thanks for the origin of the basket, that's good to know. Now if I can just convince myself I'm just throwing to a friend....
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The market will dictate which basket is best at any given time, but I thought Mach 3's where as good as they get, then I putted on a Chainstair/Mach 5.

If you were to drop a basketball from a constant height, so that the ball reached a constant speed during the freefall, directly over a hoop, 100% of the time it would pass through the hoop for a point. If a pool ball is rolled at a controlled (slow/average) speed towards the pocket the ball would drop into the pocket. If you rolled a golf ball at a controlled (again slow/average speed) towards the cup, it will fall at a high percentage. Why should our sport be any different, when it comes to the target? Again, not a rant, or a complaint, just wondering what the future can bring.

So maybe not a catch standard. How about a catch rating, similar to the disc speed rating. I won't say anything negative about any specific basket, but at the top of my rating would be the Chainstar/Mach 5, with a rating of about 8.5. On a scale from 1-10, 10 being the best catch.

I was kicking this idea about in my 1 cylinder engine I call a brain, when a bell went off, literally and figuratively. I was thinking about how an optical sensor could be used for disc golf. I stopped at a gas station for a soda, and when I walked in, a bell alerted the cashier someone had entered the store. That's when it hit me. Blind Disc Golf. You would need a sighted spotter/guide. But a distinct sound could alert throwers where the tee is, and a second distinct sound for the target. Players throw towards the sound of the basket. Instead of chains, have a series of these optical sensors to detect motion within the cylinder, change the bell to a ching sound. Blind disc golf. I haven't thought of a way to navigate obstacles on the fairway yet, but I think its a start. Could be a great Eagle Scout project.

Lastly, thanks for the soundboard. Good to get some ideas out there and see what people think.

And that guy putting, that is soooo frikin cool! How did you do that?



Chainstars send a lot of good putts right back at you but they seem to catch very well on th elft side. The mach v seems to catch better in the center as well as the left and right. I perdonally like the Strokesaver for all around catching ability and the Titan, Mach III, and Discatcher for putts into the sweet-spot. I don't mind bad putts not going in but I hate it when you have a centered putt bounce out (especially when it means something) /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Mach V. :D

This is an interesting (to me :D) article about baskets:

http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/images/torque_0505.pdf

This is an interesting (to me :D) article about baskets:

http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/images/torque_0505.pdf



Interesting in that the standard is that there is no standard (well, minimal standards). I think Jeff's statements in that article are a little coy. My guess is that one reason the "standards" are somwhat loose is to protect the game from having a manufacturer put a patent on a device that uniquely matches the standard, which is where we were for many years.

And by allowing minimum standards you can allow PDGA tournaments to be held in parks that have homemade baskets. If there is some leeway, then Joe Metalshop can make baskets for cheap and have them be legal for play. Without homemade baskets I can think of two courses (one 9-holer and another 18-holer that has two PDGA events each year) that might not exist in my area.

Spider Web baskets catch EVERYTHING and you never have putts that goin in hit the bottow of the bucket and bounce out either. If anyone knows where I can buy one please let me know.

Our local course (Hosting a B-Tier this weekend) is now weeding out the last of the home made baskets(Innova baskets will be gone soon too) in exchange for chainstars. This course wouldn't exist had a local 'joe metalshop' not made the original 18 baskets, from what I understand.

Yes, it is great that basically anyone can make a basket that meets "PDGA Standards".

Are there specific PDGA standards , each basket needs to meet , before being played on in a sanctioned event ?

ie : Height , width , chain configuration , color ?

Any PDGA approved basket may be used in a sanctioned event. I believe non-approved baskets can be used if it's an X-tier. In NT events and majors, the requested standard is to have all baskets on one course be the same model but each course could have a different model.

Interesting. At a Nt event , no two different types of baskets on the same course.

That was Nez goal but not always achieved.

Just wondering if those guys from FSN ( Future Sports Network ) from Utah are still around.

They make basket with stainless steel windchimes , incorporated into the chains !!!!! The chain configuration is 5-19 Degress off dead center , creating an " S " turn by the disc ,when penatrated into the chain assembly.

The Harmodic Melody , the windchimes make , while striking the pole with the chains is .......TOTALLY UNREAL SOUNDING !!!!!!!! :D

The one I putted on in Vegas , was electric purple , just like the dudes long hair. Yes , I have pictures too !!!!!!

FSN - Future Sports Network is the companys name.

Any help on their whereabouts is appreciated !!!!!!!

These were the most unique baskets I have ever seen.
May have even been triple chain configuration.

Please post purple Puttagonist pics :p

Mark , John or Mike. I'm still looking for the original picture I took at Las Vegas , durring the Holloween Classic !!!!