I want to make sure I understand these terms. Is the hyzer flip is taking an understable disc and putting some hyzer so that it starts left then straightens out, finishing right?

The s or the helix is taking an overstable disc and putting some annhyser on it?

Assuming I have that right, any suggestions for what to throw for these shots?

The side winder is what I'm using for hyzer flips right now; it works fine. But, I'm still looking for a good S disc.

You are correct. Yes, a sidewinder is a good hyzer flip disc, probably until you gain more power and armspeed. I don't really use that shot too often tho.
A good S disc is overstable, and it really depends on your power. For some, an Orc is a good S disc. Ken Climo used a Viper back in the day. I use my champ Firebirds, but I really have to keep the nose and elevation down and power thru.

the hyzer flip. How I love my hyzer flip shots. This is the shot you throw if you played ultimate for too many years, or grew up with fastbacks. The sidewinder is the absolute best hyzer flip disc ever. Will go straight forever.

Yeah,
I agree with Sandal. Lost my 172g Sidewinder 2 weeks ago. Settled for a 169g about a week and half ago. A little too flippy for me even with a Hyzer angle :(
But today my shop got some heavier Sidewinders. Didn't have the 172 or 173g but they did have 175g. I bought it today and went out today and played 3 hours and its already broken it quite nice.

Lovely, flight at tee off.

On average...do you feel that you get more distance from a hyzer flip or S-curve? Just curious as to your opinions.

PikNik

My experience has always been I can throws an S-Curve/Helix Further, but I can throw a hyzer flip more accurately. They each have their use. If I'm playing a hole that has OB really tight along the right side(like along a river) and it's a long hole, I'll take an overstable driver (Was a Z-Crush til it got retired from my first tourney ace, now it's a Z Avenger) and hyzer flip it over the OB. The worst that'll happen with a hyzer flip is you put too much hyzer on it and it doesn't make it all the way to flat. If you threw an S-Curve in this case, you have to risk fading out over the OB and not necessarily making it back IB. If the OB is on the left, throw the S-Curve.

If you take a really light, beat up D or X Plastic disc (or DX or Proline) you can hyzer flip s-curve it for max D, but you best have some WIDE open area for a shot like that.

A dragon works great for hyzer flips. I was experimenting a little with one recently and cranked that thing out to 400' a few times. If you can thow it without it turning all the way over, you can get some huge distance out of a dragon. 150 g champ valks are also excellent for this shot. If its windy forget it though.

Hyzer flip is more accurate but the S goes further. I like to use a Z- Crush or a broken in Z-Predator for my S curves.

In my experience a hyzer flip goes farther than a big S...but then again Im not a big arm. I throw about 325 accurately. Though I would say for the big arms who throw 400+, the S curve goes the farthest. It's actually kind of funny seeing a big arm try to throw a hyzer flip. Most of them can't do it. It just turns and dives to the ground. Though the best of the big arms can definitely throw a heck of a hyzer flip.

SO to not answer your question.....it's more of a personal thing. As for me the hyzer flip always works the best and I have been throwing that way for almost 20 years so i'm not about to change it. And the best part is it usually takes a lot less energy to throw the hyzer flip than a big power s curve.

Practice both....see what feels best. Try your best to learn both and use whichever one you need when the situation rises.

I would have to say the 172 sidewinders are out of this world. Or the 164 4x JK bar stamp valks <-------Will buy everyone in existence someday

i would say for me, i can control an s turn shot with a z-pred easier than i can a hyzer flip with an understable disc. i also can get more d with the flip. i am usually good for 420 or so.

I hyzer flip almost all my drives except for hyzers or BIG annies....

Too me, its more about being accurate than long and I get about the same distance with both. And Im a lazy golfer so it uses less energy.

now i dont mean to hijack this thread, but i drive sidearm, and dont think i have the strength to drive anything backhand. is it possible to throw a hyzer flip like this? i assume it would just behave the same as a LHBH drive hyzer-flipping. is that wrong?

When I used to throw sidearm, I also threw flippy discs and got more D and accuracy outta throwing that way.....

I like to throw the hyzer flip it is a lot more reliable for me, but probably just because that is what i throw. I also am a lot more accurate with it but there are a lot of people that throw the "s curve" on one of the holes its about 550'+ and flat and wide open they get a lot of d out of it but not as accurate. What ever floats your boat. The buoyancy floats mine.

Thnx guys; I think I'm on the right track. I hyzer flip a sidewinder (carry both a 170 and a 175, but probably not for what you think). The max weight rolls for me better, or rather, I can control a roller better with max weight.

The s curve is what I'm working on; I can throw it somewhat, and I am using a predator. Would an avenger be a good s disc? What kind of height do I need to get this shot off well? Someone said to make sure and keep it low. Seems I have to get it up high to get it to s.

I can get an S-Curve on all my discs, some better than others...the best are probably my champ. beast(1x), and Z predator. However I think I've only done 1 successful hyzer flip, which was with an E-Sabre, that I traded for the beast.

I try and use hyzer flips for everything that I can. Since a majority of the flight is straight, even if the disc turns over a bit or fades, it's easy to aim and predict where the disc will land. The only time I'll really use an S curve is when I want to go to the right of something and then hyzer back afterwards. I find that I don't really get that much more distance out of an S curve and any extra I get is lost because of the lower accuracy.

I said that when I S-curve my Firebirds, I need to keep it low because it is very overstable. I have a more beat in FB that I can throw a bit higher and still get it over. But that is because they are so stable. Throwing an avenger, you would need to keep it higher so that it has room to hyzer out after the flip.

I dont really have a hyzer flip disc in my bag. My longest driver is a sparkle tsunami, I throw it with a high S curve.

Low is not the way to throw an s-curve. You need to get some height on it so it can work its full s potential. Id say an avenger will prbably work well. Beasts, Starfires, etc. Pretty much anything that goes a bit left on you will work well for the S. But when you get it up in the air, make sure to keep the front of the disc flat or even slightly nose down. If you throw it up in the air with the nose of the disc up, you will not get the desired results. It will just hyzer out on you.

Depends on the disc and the s shape you want Hank. If you throw it higher you will either need tons of snap, or a more understable disc. The lower s-curves are better for discs like the Firebird which when thrown high will stall out hard and lose uber amounts of distance.

For instance, I sometimes will throw a 150 Valk out on a huge annhyser and get it to s-out only because of the amount of air I put under it. If I were to throw the same shot with my Firebird, it would go about 100 feet after the stall out whereas the Valk gets out to almost 300 feet this way.

Low is not the way to throw an s-curve. You need to get some height on it so it can work its full s potential. Id say an avenger will prbably work well. Beasts, Starfires, etc. Pretty much anything that goes a bit left on you will work well for the S. But when you get it up in the air, make sure to keep the front of the disc flat or even slightly nose down. If you throw it up in the air with the nose of the disc up, you will not get the desired results. It will just hyzer out on you.



I should clarify. On my pure distance S shots, I will throw a Tsunami high, nose down, a touch of annie.
Low, nose down, Firebird S shots are for 250-350 tight lines, I throw them lower to control the fade.

very true there. But then wouldnt the giant s with the valk be considered a hyzer flip S, almost??? I do the same thing with my 150 valks. For a more stable disc it definitly needs more snap or a lower angle.

Im glad I dont have to think about this stuff when I throw. lol

Ok, so now I have a question: is an s shot supposed to finish left or right? I would have guessed left, but now, that someone threw in the hyzzer s....?

Only lefties or RHFH players can throw S shots :eek:

Only lefties or RHFH players can throw S shots :eek:



So Pimp, being the Smart (insert nickname for donkey here) that you are, you are inferring that we RHBH thrower throw 2 shots instead.

Kinda technical, even for a player like you. Laymen call them S-shots because the route they take is SIMILAR to an S shaped curve. Futhermore whether you call it an S curver or a 2 curve, all depends on your relationship to the flight of the disc. If you are viewing from the air, it's a 2 curve. If your viewing from the ground, the viola! An S curve.

I am shocked you were smart enough to put that all together in an attempt to make a subtle but pitiful joke.

LOL :D/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ;)

So according to what ive read, would this be a proper diagram for a RHBH?

Well I don't know how to type a backwards 'S'. I mainly was trying to make fun of Steve for being a smart [*****].

In my experience a hyzer flip goes farther than a big S...but then again Im not a big arm. I throw about 325 accurately. Though I would say for the big arms who throw 400+, the S curve goes the farthest. It's actually kind of funny seeing a big arm try to throw a hyzer flip. Most of them can't do it.




That must be a joke right?
The world distance record and most of the furthest throws Recently have been Hyzer Flip shots...
Most Big Arms(Most top Pros) Will throw a Hyzerflip For distance.

I was at Warwick for the SKylands and A few of the top pros were having a pissing match on hole 17(489 about 20-30 downhill and about 550 to the long basket). Most Every Pro threw A Hyzerflip almost 50-100 into the woods(550+). I didn't see on pro Throw a Helix or S-Curve shot.

Most "Big Arms" Throw Hyzerflips.

-Scott Lewis

BTW.. Avery Jenkins Parked the Short basket(489) With his PUtter! :)

that's what happens when you quote out of context. If you read the rest of the post, he states that the "best of them can throw one heck of a hyzer flip".

However, less experienced "big arms" will have the disc turn hard right, and dive straight into the ground... and we have all seen that happen and even had it happen to us.

haven't heard anyone really talk about it so far, but there's several types of hyzer flips.

1) a shot that starts hyzer, flattens, flies stable.
2) a shot that starts hyzer, turns over, flexes back.
3) a shot that starts hyzer, turns over, keeps turning.

while some of this behavior is the disc, a lot of it can be consciously manipulated with your throw.

as for distance technique and the hyzer flip vs. distance annie, a lot of that has to do with the trends in discs of the era. distance technique on average is different now with people throwing valks, orcs, etc. vs. 10 years ago when the viper and x-clone were the distance kings. always makes me wonder what would have happened if the xtra had broken the xl's distance record as it was predicted (but the XS was released between the xtra and the big D competition).

a lot of the trend nowadays with discs are that a good chunk of their stability comes from their high cruise speeds, and less from the inherent characteristics of the wing.

for distance technique, distance annies will generally yield better consistent D, whereas hyzer flips hold greater D potential.

i think i was going to have a point or something... guess you are free to derive from it what you can.

a lot of the trend nowadays with discs are that a good chunk of their stability comes from their high cruise speeds, and less from the inherent characteristics of the wing.

for distance technique, distance annies will generally yield better consistent D, whereas hyzer flips hold greater D potential.



Blake, how would you assess Sandstrom's Valkyrie (250m) vs Jarvis' TeeBird (247m) technique-wise?

Blake,
That's why I'm somewhat confused. When playing with others, they'll comment on my shot using different terminology.

I thought a hyzer flip was throwing an understable disc with a hyzer angle, resulting in a relative straight throw. But, I've had people call my regular hyzers, hyzer flips. And my s shot a hyzer flip. I believe that an s was similar but used more glide (also more unpredictable).

So what do you call the shot I throw that starts out right, straighens out, then fades left? Also, an s, or like one player described it: a helix?

Blake, how would you assess Sandstrom's Valkyrie (250m) vs Jarvis' TeeBird (247m) technique-wise?



i have seen both Sandstrom and Jarvis throw distance before and their distance technique is a hyzer flip s-curve released with 70+ degrees of hyzer and slightly out to the left. the disc rises, flips over, and performs a huge helix with the disc covering a lot of distance during the flex out portion (which happens in the forward direction). their throws are generally at least 50' high and often noticeably higher. gets tough to watch as the discs just kind of vanish on me after they break ~525' or so.



I thought a hyzer flip was throwing an understable disc with a hyzer angle, resulting in a relative straight throw. But, I've had people call my regular hyzers, hyzer flips. And my s shot a hyzer flip. I believe that an s was similar but used more glide (also more unpredictable).

So what do you call the shot I throw that starts out right, straighens out, then fades left? Also, an s, or like one player described it: a helix?



the nomenclature will vary by region. i use the term hyzer flip as a general term describing shots that start hyzer but do not stay hyzer (they flatten to flat or turned). a flattened hyzer, roll curve, turnover, turnover roller started hyzer, hyzer flip s, etc. are all versions of a hyzer flip, just as hyzer flip, knife hyzer, etc. are all versions of the generic term hyzer (referring to a throw released with the outter edge of the disc lower than the inner edge).

the big differentiating factor is if they are thrown nose up or nose down. a knife hyzer and hyzer that sweeps out to the right and returns back left are thrown nose up (and usually the disc will hold a constant angle through its flight when released pure). hyzer flips must/should be thrown nose down (but nose up hyzers can be torqued over).

assuming your throw that starts out to the right and flattens a bit but does not turn over, i generally call this a straight hyzer.