Anyone know what the rules are as far as reporting the results of a PDGA event? I was in a B tier on June 18 and the results still haven't been submitted to the PDGA.

B-tiers: One month to submit report.
Penalty for non-compliance: None. Well they put you on a list of late TDs, but it's not like they call your mother.

Rule 1.

If you are waiting on it and you shot good (esp. if your really curious about what your rounds will be scre...I meaned rated) then it will be late.
Rule 2.
If you shot bad and don't want to see your round ratings, then it will be early.

So true!

So what can be done for the players who paid money to get ratings and points? It has been over 2 months.

Send emails to the TD that ran the event and your state coordinator asking if there is anything you can do to help in getting the scores posted. It is a safe offer since there really isn't anything you could be asked to do, and it could shame them into getting it filed.

Then get all of the players you know that played in the event to do the same thing.

I posted on the local boards and sent emails to the TD offering help already. I sent another yesterday to him. Didn't try the state coordinator yet. Do you know where they are listed? This was an out of state event for me.

Is there anything that the PDGA does to follow up on things like this?

So true!

So what can be done for the players who paid money to get ratings and points? It has been over 2 months.



I agree with Gary, but exactly just how much money did you pay the TD to get those results in?

Remember, running events is not a paid job, it is a very thoughtful and expensive (in more than one way) "GIFT" to you and the sport. Be appreciative first and nudge them to do the right thing "in private" rather than a "good ol' DISCussion Board Witch Hunt".

I have contacted the TD and local club, we should see results soon. If not private nudges might turn into private shoving... :D;)

Is there anything that the PDGA does to follow up on things like this?



Yes. Remember they have a financial stake plus there may be new or renewing members held up because results are late.

Nick - this is by no means a witch hunt. What are you talking about? I didn't even say which event or where. What difference does it make what I paid either? I have already tried a friendly nudge and I am a very appreciative person. I also know very well what is involved in running an event. Hopefully you will see how well this weekend.

Nick - this is by no means a witch hunt. <font color="green"> Great! Let's keep it that way.</font> What are you talking about? <font color="green"> About how to get results turned in. </font> I didn't even say which event or where. <font color="green"> You said when, and a lot more on other threads. </font> What difference does it make what I paid either? <font color="green"> I don't know. You are the one that brought it up (see post quoted). </font> I have already tried a friendly nudge and I am a very appreciative person. <font color="green"> I know. Just keep going with the "private" friendly nudges and have patience. </font> I also know very well what is involved in running an event. Hopefully you will see how well this weekend. <font color="green"> If I see you I will certainly thank you for your help. </font>



This is going to sound strange, and it is not necessarily directed at you Jeannie, but I think it needs saying: Being a volunteer doesn't give you a right to complain about other volunteers efforts, it gives you even more reason to be appreciative and courteous to them. To understand how you like to be approached about issues and challenges with your volunteer work, and approach others out of that understanding. I know that I am not perfect in this regard, but if we all just try, things should work out a little better for all concerned.

Patience, Schmatience. There is absolutely no reason (except perhaps severe and tragic physical incapacitation or death) why the results for a tournament held on June 18 should not be posted by now.

If it was known that there would be consequences for not posting the results within 30 days, then this wouldn't happen. Since nothing happens when this happens, then nothing happens. It's a vicious cycle.

Nick - this is by no means a witch hunt. <font color="green"> Great! Let's keep it that way.</font> <font color="red"> Take your own advice </font> What are you talking about? <font color="green"> About how to get results turned in. </font> <font color="red">I was refering to you saying this was a witch hunt </font> I didn't even say which event or where. <font color="green"> You said when, and a lot more on other threads. </font> <font color="red"> I'm sorry but you saying that makes it sound like I have been talking trash on other boards. Here is a LINK (http://www.madisc.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=50) to the only other thing I have written on the subject. Please quote anything else I have written. Sorry Nick, no witch hunt here. </font> What difference does it make what I paid either? <font color="green"> I don't know. You are the one that brought it up (see post quoted). </font> <font color="red">I said I paid to be in a PDGA event, the amount doesn't matter. There are rules. </font> I have already tried a friendly nudge and I am a very appreciative person. <font color="green"> I know. Just keep going with the "private" friendly nudges and have patience. </font> <font color="red"> You don't seem to have any problem on this "public" thread telling me what to do or how to behave. Why is it that I should be nudging friendly in "private"? </font> I also know very well what is involved in running an event. Hopefully you will see how well this weekend. <font color="green"> If I see you I will certainly thank you for your help. </font>



This is going to sound strange, <font color="red"> You're right about that! </font> and it is not necessarily directed at you Jeannie, <font color="red">Your responses to my posts are leaving me with a hard time believing that. </font> but I think it needs saying: Being a volunteer doesn't give you a right to complain about other volunteers efforts, it gives you even more reason to be appreciative and courteous to them. To understand how you like to be approached about issues and challenges with your volunteer work, and approach others out of that understanding. I know that I am not perfect in this regard, but if we all just try, things should work out a little better for all concerned.

Volunteers need to be given a little considration if they are having trouble living up to expectations, but they should not be allowed to slide by without completing a task that they volunteered for. The PDGA paperwork are very important parts of the process, and often overlooked by new TDs, and delayed by experienced TDs.

I see it as part of my job as a state coordinator to make sure the TDs are on time with their PDGA paperwork. It is more a responsibility I feel toward the players than a PDGA watchdog type of thing. I think the players deserve to get see the results as soon as soon as possible, and think tha online results should be posted the night the event closes. I encourage all of the TDs in my state to copy me on all correspondence with the PDGA so if anything gets lost, I have copies. This hasn't caught on very well yet, but I still have hope.

Volunteers need to be given a little consideration if they are having trouble living up to expectations, but they should not be allowed to slide by without completing a task that they volunteered for.



Agreed Gary, but what is the best way to handle it?

At our MADC annual membership meetings there is always tough talk about dealing with TDs that don't meet MADC sanctioning obligations (mainly sending in results and fees). And some folks even volunteer to be the ones to contact the delinquent TDs. But when it comes time to �break thumbs� those folks are nowhere to be found (other than to complain that the MADC isn�t doing enough to get the results or force TDs to meet their agreed upon obligations).

The only course of action, as you stated before, is to ask the TD to please get their results in. If folks call or write me about results I direct them to do the same via phone or email or best of all face to face directly with the TD. I don't allow public slandering of TDs on the MADC site, if you have something to say to them, have the decency to go to them directly. There is no need to be confrontational anyway. C�mon folks! This isn�t the Iraqi War we�re talking about here, it�s PDGA points for Pete's sake!

Are you implying that I publicly slandered this TD on the MADC board?!?! You are the only one being confrontational here Nick. I asked a simple question and it absolutely was not in a confrontational way. Please go back and re-read. Don't you think you are being overly sensitive here. I was asking a generic question about PDGA rules on the PDGA board under the PDGA Rule and Standards thread and you are the one turning the subject in the wrong direction talking about volunteers and witch hunts and blah, blah, blah! I think you should police a thread that needs it because this wasn't one of them. Are you actually saying that because I questioned the posting of results of a B tier tournament held in mid June and it now being Aug 20, that I am impatient and being unrealistic in wanting to see the results and my rating and that I get points? Believe me, my world won't end if I don't, but really Nick, are you saying that points and ratings aren't important? What do we even have them for then? Do you not think it is important for a TD to follow the rules? I read the things you write and almost always agree with you, so I feel this can't be the case. Why are you making such a big deal out of this when you know very well that 2 1/2 months for posting results is too long. I just don't get why you are defending this.
My original post was a question about what the rules are. Simple as that. It wasn't a complaint or a witch hunt. I wanted guidance as to where to go and what the rules are. There is nothing wrong with me asking it. I am learning as I go along here and I just wanted to know and please don't tell me to "look it up" either. The PDGA site is not the most user friendly site (that is not a complaint) and it is almost always easier to ask a question on the boards when my time is limited. I guess the only problem with the boards is in cases like this, when someone turns it into something totally different, as you just did. I got the answers I was looking for from Bruce, Gary, and Chuck.

I was in a B tier on June 18 and the results still haven't been submitted to the PDGA.



In my opinion no need for this Jeannie. You could have gotten your answer without that detail. It doesn't take much research to figure out which tournament and tournament director you are talking about. All I'm saying, again, is that there is no need for that.

I felt it needed saying, take it or leave it.

Speaking of Tournament Results...

The Seneca Creek Soiree results from April are now available for your viewing pleasure at www.madisc.org (http://www.madisc.org) :D

They should also appear in the next Stats update with the PDGA.

PS, I can't blame you for wanting to see the results posted, Jeannie - and sometimes a subtle reminder to the TD doesn't work... so a less subtle prod is necessary.

I was in a B tier on June 18 and the results still haven't been submitted to the PDGA.



In my opinion no need for this Jeannie. You could have gotten your answer without that detail. It doesn't take much research to figure out which tournament and tournament director you are talking about. All I'm saying, again, is that there is no need for that.

I felt it needed saying, take it or leave it.



this kind of apathy is what allows TDs to get away with not doing the most critical part of their job. i've been a little late in getting results in and would have absolutely no issue if people started calling me out on it. it's my responsibility.

who cares if the delinquent TD is outed? why not out them to put some heat on getting the results in? if there is a valid excuse, people will understand.

sheeeesh nick... if i take it upon myself to start a thread that outs delinquent TD's (results not submitted after... say... 60 days-- not a whole lot to ask), are you going to delete it?

i think that thread is a great idea.

Well in my opinion there was no need for this...

Be appreciative first and nudge them to do the right thing "in private" rather than a "good ol' DISCussion Board Witch Hunt".



this...

You said when, and a lot more on other threads


or this...

I don't allow public slandering of TDs on the MADC site, if you have something to say to them, have the decency to go to them directly.



And as far as....
was in a B tier on June 18 and the results still haven't been submitted to the PDGA


You could have gotten your answer without that detail

is concerned, you must be insane if you think that is detailed. Do you really think people are going to investigate that? Who really cares enough to do that. I wrote the date and tier because it was pertanant to my topic. Who knew you would turn it into this. Also please note that I did email the TD (not complaining, but sincerely asking if help was needed) and I can't speak personally to him because I don't even know him or live near him. I never got a response. A simple it will get done would have been fine too. Geesh!!!!

Also PLEASE note that calling out TD's was not my intention with this thread. I was inquiring about rules and nothing more.

I don't allow public slandering of TDs on the MADC site, if you have something to say to them, have the decency to go to them directly.



this is a good one. if the tourney results haven't been submitted, it ain't slander (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=slander) nick. it's a fact that needs to be shared so people are informed to decide to play that TD's events or not.

Yet again Nick finds a way to make trouble. He still hasn't learned how to share the sandbox with others and play nice. Nick, when are you ever going to realize that you're not cut out for this line of work?

Nick, re-read your prescription bottle warnings. I'm pretty sure you're taking the wrong dosage.

Plus stating that it was a B-Tier on June 18th isn't specifying the event, just the details needed for the persons being asked to offer an opinion. The size of the event,a nd when it had been held. It never ocurred to me to (until now) to go to the PDGA tour page and see which event it might have been. Why would I be interested in which event it was unless I had played the event?

Relax, she didn't mean it that way, and he is being overprotective. If a TD is remiss in living up to his/her obligations, they are opening themselves up to public criticism. Wait, just by offering to be TDs, they are opening themselves up to public criticism.

Wait, just by offering to be TDs, they are opening themselves up to public criticism.



very true. TDs need thick skin or their TD'ing career will be short-lived.

Thank you.

OK folks, lets try the flipside of this as i am curious as well, after a TD has submitted results how long does it take to update the pdga site, i see some tourneys being updated practically immediately. Anyone got any answers?

Tim

if you do it electronically (which imo is the only way to do it), it's practically instantaneous.

(but you're talking to a formerly slightly delinquent TD here)

if you do it electronically (which imo is the only way to do it), it's practically instantaneous.

(but you're talking to a formerly slightly delinquent TD here)



How do you mean electronically? I submitted the spreadsheet that was requested, is there another way, if so please enlighten me and i will go gung ho down that route, we really want to know as this is the first time our course has had a rated event with rated players.

TIA

Tim

i'm not the one to talk to about this as i've only done it once. the reason i was late was because i was slammed (short-staffed) at the office during that stretch. i typically do all online "transactions" here because i only have dial-up at home. it turns out the process was surprisingly less convoluted than i anticipated and doing it on dial-up wouldn't have been difficult. i think i was only two month's late, which i think is inexcusable. i apologized to players and sponsors.

from a dave gentry e-mail...


The PDGA online scoring system is being provided to all tournament directors for all PDGA sanctioned events (this is an extension of the system we used for the National Tour and majors last year). We are asking all tournament directors to use the new system to post scores, and are requesting that registration lists and scores not be posted on the PDGA message board. Note that the online posting of scores does not replace the sending of a complete TD report with scores post event to the PDGA office.

Online documentation is available at:

http://www.pdga.com/tournament/admin/help.php

This tutorial should provide enough information for you to upload your registration list and scores. The process is easy, and is as simple as copying from an Excel worksheet into a web page, similar to the process used to post scores to the PDGA message board.

The speed of turnaround depends on whether Dave Gentry is in the office and processing reports that day. He's usually posted them within a week if he's not doing them the day you send it.

but you can post the results right away, correct?

When you do that, your scores will be updated to the British Open (http://www.pdga.com/schedule/event.php?TournID=4932) page also.

but you can post the results right away, correct?



Yes, in terms of uploading scores, which is a great service to players who like to see the results and unofficial ratings ASAP. I meant the official results are posted by Dave within a week so players know the report is in the hopper for official points and getting ratings in the next update.

I just ran my first tourny, sent electronic TD report in and it was posted the very next day

In answer to the question of posting unofficial results, the PDGA should send you an email with a link and password.

If you go to that link and enter the password, it allows you to set up your tournament online so the players list and results are available from the PDGA tour page.

You need to define layouts for each course or variation of a course for ratings to be calculated correctly.

For example:

If your event uses 2 courses and all divisions play from the same tees to the same pin locations in all rounds, you only need to defin 2 layouts.

If you use 2 courses, but some of the pins or tees move in every round, you will need more layouts.

In round 1,
The Pros play on course 1 with all long tees and long pins
The Adv play on course 2 with all long tees and long pins
The Int play on course 1 with short tees and long pins
The Rec play on course 2 with short tees and long pins

That's 4 layouts.

In round 2 the Pros and Adv swap, and the Int and Rec swap.
The layouts are already defined, nothing needs to be added.
Except that there is one hole across a pond where the Rec players tee from a temporary tee.

One more layout needs to be added.

For round 3,
The Pros are on course 1 with long tees and short pins
The Adv are on course 2 with long tees and short pins
The Int are on course 1 with short tees and short pins
The Rec are on course 2 with short tees and short pins.

add 4 more layouts.

For round 4 every body swaps, and the over the pond shot is easier to the short pin, so no temp pin is needed.

You end up with 9 layouts.
Course 1 - long to long
Course 2 - long to long
Course 1 - long to short
Course 2 - long to short
Course 1 - short to long
Course 2 - short to long
Course 1 - short to short
Course 2 - short to short
Course 1 - Rec

When you know what divisions are playing which layouts in which rounds, you can click on the rating tab and select a layout for each division for each round. Well, select a layout for each division in one round and then click the update button. The update button only applies to the round currently displayed.

The players can be uploaded to the web page as registrations come in so that players can preview the players list. This also gives the TD a little practice uploading information to the site.

If there are any last minute changes to the division/layout adjust the ratings tab, upload the scores, and it is live.

It takes a little practice to get it down, but it goes very smoothly once you get used to it.

I don't allow public slandering of TDs on the MADC site, if you have something to say to them, have the decency to go to them directly. There is no need to be confrontational anyway. C�mon folks! This isn�t the Iraqi War we�re talking about here, it�s PDGA points for Pete's sake!



Once again we see the world according to Nick Kight, but as usual it doesn't pertain to Nick himself.

If Nick wants to 'slander' a TD that doesn't give enough (in his opinion) added cash to the masters division that's fine.

If Nick wants to be confrontational with someone that prefers to keep the 2m rule as it was, that's fine.

What a tool.

Thanks everyone, as this is my first pdga event i am green, but thanks for all the pointers they are very useful and i shall peruse at my leisure. Thanks Chuck it was the rated rounds that everyone is curious about as the scores are on my website and the sndg site, so as i have sent in my international TD report i shall have to sit back and be patient for Dave to work his magic. I shouldn't worry when i don't hear back that all is well.

Tim

I don't allow public slandering of TDs on the MADC site, if you have something to say to them, have the decency to go to them directly. There is no need to be confrontational anyway. C�mon folks! This isn�t the Iraqi War we�re talking about here, it�s PDGA points for Pete's sake!



Once again we see the world according to Nick Kight, but as usual it doesn't pertain to Nick himself.

If Nick wants to 'slander' a TD that doesn't give enough (in his opinion) added cash to the masters division that's fine.

If Nick wants to be confrontational with someone that prefers to keep the 2m rule as it was, that's fine.

What a tool.



Example of something that would not be said to my face...

Plays well to the bored mess i di o ts.

Plays well to the bored mess i di o ts.


osama bin nick, once again proving that he holds himself above the rules he imposes on others.

Pat, proving again that he has a special thing for me...

Example of something that would not be said to my face...

Plays well to the bored mess i di o ts.



I can absolutely guarantee that any statement I make on this or any other message board would also be made to your face. I'm willing to bet that would hold true for Dan Howard, Pat, and many others on here too.

It is Friday night and Jon posted results from the tournament we ran THIS weekend six hours ago. We ran a free trophy-only tournament today for club members only. We had about 23 play in two divisions. Terry Miller won open. Brett Comincioli won advanced. Terry Miller won the putting contest. Dan Michler won the distance driving competition.

There is no need to be confrontational anyway.



did Nick really just say that? :eek: :o:confused: :D

I don't get it, why does everything need to turn into an argument on the discussion board?


Without Nick, Jeannie's question could have gotten a good answer within a dozen posts, but Nick needs to drag things out again. Why Nick, why?

Why can't you give a simple answer? Is there some kind of mental disease that prohibits that?



Your answer to a simple question was basically this:


Remember, running events is not a paid job, it is a very thoughtful and expensive (in more than one way) "GIFT" to you and the sport. Be appreciative first and nudge them to do the right thing "in private" rather than a "good ol' DISCussion Board Witch Hunt".

I have contacted the TD and local club, we should see results soon. If not private nudges might turn into private shoving...




But, all you should have done was this:


"Jeannie, I know this can be frustrating. However, I have contacted the TD and local club, we should see results soon."


Why Nick, why....why do you treat everyone like a *******? Giving us the whole blablabla about TD's not being paid. How many people don't know that? Give Jeannie some credit before you belittle her. It has been over 2 months....she has every right to post this question here.

And of course, I expect a complete analysis of my post, and why I am wrong, again (of course)....and why you are right - of course.

Anyone know what the rules are as far as reporting the results of a PDGA event? I was in a B tier on June 18 and the results still haven't been submitted to the PDGA.


Hi Jeannie! It was fun meeting you at Flagstaff. Tell Adam to keep shaking it. :)

Hey Rhett! I had a great time hanging with you and Lauri. Please tell her I said hello! Playing with her will be one of the lasting memories of worlds for me. What a kind person she is!
Recognize my avatar? I have a new one coming of you. J/K LOL Wish I got one of Adam too. That Yvonne is one amazing lady :D

Recognize my avatar? I have a new one coming of you. J/K LOL


Glad you're kidding. :) All I ever needed to know about dancing I learned in 7th grade... :D



That Yvonne is one amazing lady :D


Yvonne is a hoot. There's no other way to put it. :)

That's a move to post scores up high...

Probably should be posted in the Am Worlds link but here's Jeannie a little high... Jeannie (http://publish.hometown.aol.com/ck34/images/jeannie%20a%20bit%20high...jpg)

I thought it was going to be a pic of you two dancing! :)

She never would dance.

Dang! You could have at least posted one where I made the put!!

Cute skirt! :D:cool:

And not a very flattering pic, I might add... :o:mad:Does my as* really look that big. I am hoping it is just the angle

It's probably just the altitude...

LMFAO That was a great excuse for everything wasn't it :D

I was in a hot tub in Flagstaff once many years ago and the weight of the water on my chest combined with the thin air had me gasping for breath. I can only imagine the difficulty of trying to play disc golf up there and hiking up those mountains - all in thin air!

I don't get it, why does everything need to turn into an argument on the discussion board?


Without Nick, Jeannie's question could have gotten a good answer within a dozen posts, but Nick needs to drag things out again. Why Nick, why?

Why can't you give a simple answer? Is there some kind of mental disease that prohibits that?



Your answer to a simple question was basically this:


Remember, running events is not a paid job, it is a very thoughtful and expensive (in more than one way) "GIFT" to you and the sport. Be appreciative first and nudge them to do the right thing "in private" rather than a "good ol' DISCussion Board Witch Hunt".

I have contacted the TD and local club, we should see results soon. If not private nudges might turn into private shoving...




But, all you should have done was this:


"Jeannie, I know this can be frustrating. However, I have contacted the TD and local club, we should see results soon."


Why Nick, why....why do you treat everyone like a *******? Giving us the whole blablabla about TD's not being paid. How many people don't know that? Give Jeannie some credit before you belittle her. It has been over 2 months....she has every right to post this question here.

And of course, I expect a complete analysis of my post, and why I am wrong, again (of course)....and why you are right - of course.



I thought that is what I said. I think this is more of a 50/50 miscommunication, where you guys are looking for trouble from me, when my intended message was more of patience and moderation in public discussion of this sort (criticizing organizers).

At any rate, I don't think Jeannie meant to bash the TDs of that event, she's always been appreciative of their efforts; I just, admittedly, have a short fuse for stuff that smell like TD bashing. I'll watch that.

At any rate, seems like Jeannie and crew set the new gold standard for scoring process at the Skylands. I know I was taking notes as were a bunch of other TDs and organizers.

Putt went too high - must be the altitude
Putt hit the rim - Must be the altitude
My bag feels heavy today - Is it the altitude?
Can't get the disc to flip - **** altitude!
Who's discs are these?!?! - yup, the altitude
Drives go half the distance than as at home - must be the altitude.
Out of breath climbing the steps at hotel - altitude.
My back hurts - is it the altitude?
Thought I would die in the hot tub - f'n altitude.
Getting drunk way too easily - definately the altitude!
I look like sh1t in this bathroom mirror - please be the altitude.
Headache - altitude.
Big as* in picture - what else could it be but the altitude??

Nick - I am glad you know that wasn't my intent and thanks for the kudos. ;)

I'm enjoying your photos of Chuck and Rhett.

Get down, get down!
Get down, get down!
...
:D