How does the elite z compare to the regular avenger? After some beating in, my avenger is becoming a very reliable straight flyer.

If the elite z is more overstable, it would be a great addition to my bag.

the elite z is alot more overstable!

comparing new x to new z, the z is only slightly more overstable. they are very similar when new. high speed at least. the z does have more low speed fade.

Picked up a couple today at J-Birds tourney. I normally toss 172 X Avengers as my go-to driver. A 168 Z Avenger was VERY similar, especially after I tried to knock over a brick wall a few times with it. 168 Z Avenger is slightly less flippy(and do I ever mean slightly). I have 2 169(171?)s coming from e-bay. I can't wait.

I have 11 brand new 174g Elite Z Avengers for sale. $15 a piece plus shipping. PM for details.

Woo-Hoo....i made myself throw this disc a lot during our weekly league so i could have a better review. I threw it into moderate headwinds and found that it fought the wind incredibly. I also used it for long hyzers where my Z-Preds were coming up short, and it gave me the extra 40 feet b/c it's a little less stable than a Z-Pred.

The Z-Avenger flies like a perfectly worn in Z-Predator.....whick makes sense b/c it's essentially a re-tooled Pred. :p

Now i won't have to spend 12 months beating up a Z-Pred. All i have to do is throw a Z-Avenger in the bag.

Sweet!

The Z-Avenger flies like a perfectly worn in Z-Predator.....whick makes sense b/c it's essentially a re-tooled Pred. :p


So is the Avenger like a Tsunami...which I thought 'was' a retooled Pred? :confused: :p /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

No. The Avenger is less stable than a Tsunami. :p

:p

IMO my max weight Z Avenger is similar in stability to a pro Tsunami. Slightly less overstable at higher speeds( I throw mid 400's).

I need to experiment with it more but this may become my go to driver. Enough stability so I can throw it real hard w/o being afraid it will flip, and it goes FAR!

That's pretty much how i see it also. Great stuff!

it is, indeed, a good overstable disc. As somone said, right there between a crush and a wildcat. Z Wildcats fly very very close to the same as my X Avengers do(at least the 1 z wildcat I've ever seen). My Z Avenger isn't flippy where my X Avengers are. I plan on taking my Z Avengers out to a field and just toss a bunch of rollers(if I can get it to stay vertical long enough) until it's a well beaten machine.

Take a max weight elite X avenger ... beat it up. Now take a brand new 171 g z avenger... in perfect shape.

You now have a long distance turnover driver, and a long distance stable driver.

Throw in a crush for spike hyzers, a Z XL for all purpose use, and a wasp for approach, and a soft UV challenger for putting and you have a great all discraft bag.

Have you thrown the Z Avenger ?

I believe it states : stability 1.8

X Avenger states : stability 1.6

Have you thrown the Z Avenger ?

I believe it states : stability 1.8

X Avenger states : stability 1.6



If you meant me, then yes.... I have one of each in my bag. You are correct. The X avenger is 1.6 stable, but will get a little flippy after a few high speed collisions with trees. The Z avenger is 1.8 stable, and will not get flippy because it's more overstable, and well, it's Z plastic and that is like a lifetime commitment. :cool:

Have you thrown the Z Avenger ?

I believe it states : stability 1.8

X Avenger states : stability 1.6



If you meant me, then yes.... I have one of each in my bag. You are correct. The X avenger is 1.6 stable, but will get a little flippy after a few high speed collisions with trees. The Z avenger is 1.8 stable, and will not get flippy because it's more overstable, and well, it's Z plastic and that is like a lifetime commitment. :cool:



Are the Z Avengers , available now to the general public or are they still Fundraisers ?

Have you thrown the Z Avenger ?

I believe it states : stability 1.8

X Avenger states : stability 1.6



If you meant me, then yes.... I have one of each in my bag. You are correct. The X avenger is 1.6 stable, but will get a little flippy after a few high speed collisions with trees. The Z avenger is 1.8 stable, and will not get flippy because it's more overstable, and well, it's Z plastic and that is like a lifetime commitment. :cool:



Are the Z Avengers , available now to the general public or are they still Fundraisers ?



I know j-bird has some, you can e-mail him to order some. He was selling plain Z ones yesterday, and said he has some being dyed.

I got some from Sun King Discs. Good prices, good service, fast shipping. I'm happy.

Are the Z Avengers , available now to the general public or are they still Fundraisers ?



Full production item. Not a fund raiser. You can find them from $12-$15.

Exactly. I have a few custom stamped first runs that I was giving to volunteers at the last IOS as thank you items, but they should be generally available in a matter of weeks.

Are the Z Avengers , available now to the general public or are they still Fundraisers ?



Full production item. Not a fund raiser. You can find them from $12-$15.



I am selling them $15 (Shipping included) as a fundraiser for me to go to the USDGC. I'll have paypal up and going soon, so Email me if interested. I also have several Crushes, Flicks and Preds.

Do the z avengers have the color stability issues that the flashs had? I just got my 2 orange 169 gram avengers and plan on trying them in a field tomorrow. I'll post back with my results as compared to everyone elses. I did notice that my Z Avenger didn't skip as well as the X ones did, but that just may be a small data set problem. I throw the X ones a ton, so maybe it's just the Zs havn't had a chance to shine.

Tomorrow, I'll be comparing:

1 167 gram Purple Z Avenger
2 169 gram Orange Z Avengers
1 175 gram White X Avenger
1 172 gram White X Avenger
1 172 gram Yellow X Avenger
1 172 gram Red X Avenger
1 168 gram White X Avenger
1 165 gram White X Avenger

All weights are as measured with my digital cooking scale.

All weights are as measured with my digital cooking scale.



:) :eek: :D

comparing new x to new z, the z is only slightly more overstable. they are very similar when new. high speed at least. the z does have more low speed fade.



Does anyone else find this to be true? I'm looking for a disc that I can get a long, wide 'S' with. My current long range drivers cover straight, turnover and overstable shots, but I'd like something that I can either get an 'S' with or throw a hyzer flip but have it fade hard. The X is nice, but it's pretty similar to my Vikings. A hair more overstability and more durability might be just what I'm looking for.

comparing new x to new z, the z is only slightly more overstable. they are very similar when new. high speed at least. the z does have more low speed fade.



Does anyone else find this to be true? I'm looking for a disc that I can get a long, wide 'S' with. My current long range drivers cover straight, turnover and overstable shots, but I'd like something that I can either get an 'S' with or throw a hyzer flip but have it fade hard. The X is nice, but it's pretty similar to my Vikings. A hair more overstability and more durability might be just what I'm looking for.



A lighter Z Avenger would work for your S shots.

PT Woods
# 20431

Have you thrown the Z Avenger ?


A 168g purple candy (is that "Z"?) Avenger with lettering reminiscent of the Metalhead Viper flies pretty good.

I like that it isn't the same-ole-same-ole 21.2 cm diameter. It's a little bigger. Feels like an Orc. Flies like an Orc at my high speed, and then fades harder at the end. Seems to fly faster, too.

Do you know how hard it is to spend Worlds script in an all-Discraft store when you don't know Discraft and the Discraft guys really aren't interested in telling you what Innova disc anything flies like? :)

"It's between a Predator and a Talon." Okay, that was helpful. :)

Hey, Keith Murray is a good guy!

Have you thrown the Z Avenger ?


A 168g purple candy (is that "Z"?) Avenger with lettering reminiscent of the Metalhead Viper flies pretty good.

I like that it isn't the same-ole-same-ole 21.2 cm diameter. It's a little bigger. Feels like an Orc. Flies like an Orc at my high speed, and then fades harder at the end. Seems to fly faster, too.

Do you know how hard it is to spend Worlds script in an all-Discraft store when you don't know Discraft and the Discraft guys really aren't interested in telling you what Innova disc anything flies like? :)

"It's between a Predator and a Talon." Okay, that was helpful. :)

Hey, Keith Murray is a good guy!



<font color="red"> Yea, he is a pretty good guy, and helpful too. Here is a post he composed "comparing" your discs to mine. </font> :p


Discraft_Keith


Reged: 11/04/03
Loc: Michigan Re: Question for Keith M [Re: Parkntwoputt]
#357586 - 04/19/05 06:51 AM Edit Reply Quote



Hello All,

Tafe, the latest Z-Wildcats are a little more overstable and seem to hold a line better. Haven't heard anything else than that.

Parkn, I would say the following are similar:
FB-Flick
SF-Crush
OR-Flash
BT-Predator
TB-Talon
VK-Wildcat
LP-XL

Jaymo, an Elite-Z Ultra-Star would be way too heavy. Not sure how it would fly and not really worth testing with everything else going on.

Do you know how hard it is to spend Worlds script in an all-Discraft store when you don't know Discraft and the Discraft guys really aren't interested in telling you what Innova disc anything flies like?

yep, its definitely the fault of the people who dont throw the innova stuff! :D it was GREAT to see such a good selection of QUALITY plastic! i had almost forgotten how sweet it is to play a Ginnelly event!

Has anyone compared the Z Avenger to the Starfire X? Are they similar?

I sure wish people would quit chopping off the smileys when they quote me....

Does that Ginnely comment mean you are making plans for The Memorial?

Does that Ginnely comment mean you are making plans for The Memorial?



Sorry about chopping you smiley off. I hope Keith's comparisons were easy enough for you to figure out. BTW, I think Mr. Filthy Feet means he misses living in AZ and playing Ginnely's events.

well, i do miss living in AZ and playing in Dan's events. but when i lived there i missed living in Tejas and playing in all the good stuff we got going on here.

since my wife was totally digging Scottsdale and would love to visit again, we DO have the Memorial penciled in for next year. but i'm worried that if she liked it in the summer she's not ever gonna wanna leave once she experiences it in the winter.

Hey Sandalman,

Don't forget to sign up early. We are suggesting people start registering in November.

I throw Z-Wildcats and Z-Predators. I don't have an Avenger or a Tracker but I've ordered some.

Here's a question -- the newer Z-Wildcats that I have are nothing like the older Z-Wildcats that I have. The new ones are like Z-Predator-lites while the older ones are Valkryie-esque.

Did Discraft just re-name the newer "Z-Wildcats" "Z-Avengers"?

I like Z-Wildcats and Z-Predators, I just don't see needing a disc between the new Wildcats and the Predators, but that may be because I don't throw very far. I only throw 450' consistently. (I've added on the requisite message board distance for those that know me and realize that 350' is about right.)

Where's the Valkryie comparison in Keith's chart?

Crush/Flick I just can't seem to get a hold of. Not that I can't just throw a Valkryie -- but to me the original Z-Wildcats are a cheap man's CE Valkryie.

He compares a Viking to the Wildcat and I tried hard to like Vikings but couldn't do it.

Even a disc fanatic like myself gets confused with the constant changes -- there aren't any new Discraft drivers that mimic the original Z-Wildcats are there?

Don't give me a Crush -- I don't release that disc consistently at all, although there was a kid throwing the crap out of one the other night. I've never seen one fly so consistently -- must be the archer.

Don't sweat it, Paul. It is very confusing, especially when different runs do different things.

My x avenger does fly very similar to my z wildcat; I may need to remove one from my bag. I'm not sure how long until this avenger becomes totally flipply. Incidentally, both fly similar to my z xpress.

I carry a z viking that is more overstable than my wildcat.

I am very fond of my x avenger, but it beat in way too quickly. Although I'm excited about the z avenger, if its more overstable than the x avenger, it may not serve a purpose for me as I have other overstable discs.

I am looking forward to throwing the new z avenger, tracker, and the pro wraith.

Right now I am carrying:
Z talon
z wildcat
z predator
candy viking
x avenger (go to disc)
z xpress
2 z sidewinders
z buzz
2 wizards

Not sure how the z avenger will fit in; I'm hoping it's like the x avenger but does not beat in as quick, yet I am pleased with it for a straight flyer.

Hank,

The X avenger is 1.6 on the stability scale.

The Z avenger is 1.8

I believe the Z will beat into a straight flier, but it's going to take some work.....errrrr i mean trees. :)

Paul,

I quoted Keith out of the Ask Keith M thread. If you read that thread you will see that people asked if VK meant Valk or Viking, Keith answered the 2nd time with VK=Valk.

I think the X-Avenger becomes Valkyrie-esque rather quickly. The Z-Tracker is also simple to throw. Minimal effort and great distance.

Is z tracker a regular release as well? I'm excited about that disc as well. Just as soon as I get paid... gonna order me some.

The Z-Tracker is a fund raiser for the Player's Cup. You can find it at www.sportdiscs.com (http://www.sportdiscs.com) or Ebay(maybe).

Hank,

I think that the Z-avenger will end up taking the place of the Talon in your bag, similar characteristics, but faster and more glide.... meaning longer.

I carry both a Z and an X avenger. The Z is just as stable as it's ever been and the X is just a bit flippy making it great for hyzer flips, or very long turnover drives. One mold, left and right ... long as (*****) ... makes me happy!

I am still curious about a fly by fly comparison between the Avenger and the Wraith ... but can't afford discs right now to make my own comparison.

I carry both a Z and an X avenger. The Z is just as stable as it's ever been and the X is just a bit flippy making it great for hyzer flips, or very long turnover drives. One mold, left and right ... long as (*****) ... makes me happy!



Be careful with the X. They get BEAT real fast. Ive had 1 in my bag for less then a month and its already my new ROLLER DISC. Dont get me wrong its a great roller but I will be trying to replace its flight with a superlight Z Avenger because it just beat up to quickly for my liking.

I love the new Zs though. Its my new GO TO driver for accurate distance :D

Should come in real handy on the Tobbogan for USADGC :D

Yeah, once I saw how quickly my first 172 gram X Avenger became a dive right driver, it quickly got 4 of itself on my shelf for replacing it. I, basically, keep 1 168 X Avenger in my bag for when I need something to turn over, but the flash is a little too flippy, and a 172 X Avenger on the leading edge of beat, for when I need a hyzer flip or something at 3/4 strength that's just going to go straight.

I also have 167 and 169 Z Avengers in my bag. The 167 is Semi Flippy, but purple seems to be a more stable color again. I have an orange 169 (2 actually) that after a little tuning on a 4 hour drive, will snap up JUST like my 172 X Avenger does. It took 4 hours of bending and beating to get it ready. I'm going to try the same with a 167 and see if I can turn it into a HUGE D driver.

I really like the x avenger, but I know I'm one more mesquite away from having an understable disc (which I don't need now as I have 2 sidewinders).

I just ordered a z avenger, wraith, demon, and a heavier buzz to see if it's any better than my 172 buzz.

I couldn't see myself spending the 20 bucks for the tracker since money is tight right now ( I know, I know, I spent money I shouldn't have). I'm hoping it becomes a regular release item; Discraft is normally good at remembering us poor recreational players.

I think if I knew for sure I would like it, I would have spent the money. Hey, I get paid again in a month.

Threw this disc a few times today and it is nice. It is very similar to my beat up Z-Predator (with a little less dome). I like it but I really don't know where I would need it. With a brand new Z-Crush and a beat up Z-Predator, it seems that this disc gets lost in between.

With a little bit of testing tomorrow at a wide open long course I will see if it is going to replace my Orc. So far, today on our only long hole I managed to beat my avg Orc drive with a line drive toss, and with a big sky s-curve I got the Z out just over 400ft before it hit a downed tree about 5ft off the ground.

Don't know about the Tracker yet, I still like my Z-XL, and I have 7 of them.

With a little bit of testing tomorrow at a wide open long course I will see if it is going to replace my Orc. So far, today on our only long hole I managed to beat my avg Orc drive with a line drive toss, and with a big sky s-curve I got the Z out just over 400ft before it hit a downed tree about 5ft off the ground.

Don't know about the Tracker yet, I still like my Z-XL, and I have 7 of them.



Just wait til the Z XL becomes scarce!

I asked Keith Murray about that, and so far they have no plans on discontinuing the Z-XL, even with the introduction of the Tracker. So I am not worried.

Plus, considering I have 7 of them, I will probably still have them when the Tracker becomes scarce.

I just got a Z-avenger in the mail today.
I'm not sure if it is a first run, but i'm guessing it is because it has the big Avenger stampthat the first run X discs had..
ANYWAY..

The Plastic looks great.. It's the Slightly Clear OPAQUE Plastic that the 1st run Buzzz's came in.... The plastic is identical to my 1st run buzzz's.. THis disc should hold up really well. I suggest people pick these up if they like avengers as the other runs probably wont' be in this plastic.

-Scott Lewis

Z Avenger has officially replaced my Orc. Except on a hole where I have to hyzer 390ft over water. Then I will throw the Orc so I don't care if I lose it. I only now carry the Orc for that one hole, it remains in the trunk the rest of the time.

1st runs have "first run" on it. And they don't have a "Z" on them anywhere.